- This topic has 3,825 replies, 73 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 6 months ago by
.
- Posts
Let’s reverse this. Assuming you are married, could you have chosen to not ask your wife to marry you? Was that option available to you?
Little bit off point or beyond what I want to discuss but:
was god free to say that love is bad, and hate is good. Was he free to say that you should not help the poor one? Was he free to say that rape is good? Was he free to say that steeling is good.
was god free to say that love is bad, and hate is good. Was he free to say that you should not help the poor one? Was he free to say that rape is good? Was he free to say that steeling is good.
Yes he is free to say that. But he is not an idiot.
I am free to steal a pair of shoes of some random kid. But I’m not an idiot either. I’m also free to dive 50 feet into the Pacific Ocean. But I’m not interested.
Let’s reverse this. Assuming you are married, could you have chosen to not ask your wife to marry you? Was that option available to you?
Free will is not the ability to choose anything you want at any time. No one can do that.
It is the ability to choose the things that matter to God. He knows we can’t choose to visit Neptune this week. That doesn’t negate free will.
Are you free to actually believe the opposite of what you believe?
Over time yes. One small step at a time. A decision here and a decision there. Years later, bad decisions accumulate and the weight of them swings the pendulum the other way.
Proclaimer. …..What David is saying is right, but you obviously do not have the ability of a “free” Will to accept it, but your will is held in “captivity” to your thoughts, that is an obvious truth here.
And you are indeed “self willed”, held in captivity by “your own thoughts” as most are, unless God sets them free by his SPIRIT OF TRUTH, they will remain that way forever, and die that way. GOD the Father changes our will and thus our desires, we ar being “created” unto good Works by the effectual working of God’s Spirit.
We are not self willed to salvation by a so-called, “freewill” , as you falsely preach, no one is.
Again for the hundredth time here, there “exists no such thing as a will that is free, the very word will implies mental captivity, or it simply would not be a will, in the first place, common sense 101.
The term “freewill” is an OXYMORON, because non exists.
Peace and love to you and yours………….gene
The oxymoron is your doctrine called ‘Captivated Free Will’. Its like saying, ‘the small large tree’.
BTW, If I supposedly don’t have free will, then I made this post without having the the choice not to. Lol.
Hilarious. Your freedom to post against the idea of freedom to do this and other things is the elephant in the room.
Isn’t America the land of freedom. And do you yourself stand up for it. Why? There is no freedom according to you, just captivity. Did you not know that the truth sets you free.
There is so much wrong with the ‘Captivated Free Will’ doctrine, I haven’t got the time to mention everything. Because I am free to do what I want with the time I have. See that. I made a choice to not waste too much time on this subject because I choose that other things are more important. My choice.
Proclaimer ….My doctrine is not about a “captivated”, “free” will, but simply a captivated will, which you have a freedom to “express”. But that has “nothing” to do with what is driving the “WILL” “itself”. the “express or exercise” part of you “captivated” will is the only thing that you have freedom to do. That is not the same as saying the will “itself” is free.
I do realize you have trouble understanding that, but that doesn’t change the truth now does it? go back and look again at the original Video you and Edj have posted if you don’t believe me or David, or others who have posted about it here, like Adam who started this post on freewill.
You pride is preventing you from understanding the truth about this subject, and others things also, sad.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene.
Proclaimer ….My doctrine is not about a “captivated”, “free” will,
You’re the one who said it was ‘captivated free will’.
Captivated free will,
You can put any word you like in front of it. It will still say “free will”.
Are there any other teachings you bring here that you would like to be corrected on?
Ed. Were you free to say the opposite. Some people because of what’s in their brains can only agree, can only see it the way I do. You, and many others can’t. And you have no choice in how you see it. You can’t simply decide to see this the way I do. You simply don’t have those connections in your brain.
You were not free to say the opposite. You could only think as you do and have said as you said.
“Are you free to actually believe the opposite of what you believe?”
“Over time yes. One small step at a time. A decision here and a decision there. Years later, bad decisions accumulate and the weight of them swings the pendulum the other way.”
Yes exactly! So you understand in that moment with your brain in the state it was in at that time, you didn’t have a choice. Not really. You can only believe as is in your brain in that moment. Other people have other brains.
What you are suggesting is that over time you could essentially have a different brain with different connections. Your brain state will have changed. Other people’s brains already are in that state. So they can only think that way.
Now did you decide to change your brain state? Would you be making decisions in such a way that you willfully change your beliefs. No. You can’t decide to change your beliefs. Yes they will change, but you can’t simply decide to change them while you still believe something. Try to simply be a Muslim in belief. Or an atheist. You simply can’t do this. Not in the moment. A lot has to happen in your brain but you don’t decide as a Christian that you are going to become an atheist. Or a Muslim.
Yes exactly! So you understand in that moment with your brain in the state it was in at that time, you didn’t have a choice.
You still have the choice. It is just very unlikely that you will choose it. This does not negate free will. Free will doesn’t mean you dive off a 50 foot cliff for no reason whatsoever and out of the blue, but for free will. No, thank God. Reality is not so reckless. It means that in your life time, you made a whole host of choices that got you to a destination and you are responsible for those choices you made because God made it possible for you to choose either way. Obviously, there are a whole host of things that you are not responsible for. And that is because you cannot control those things. You are not responsible for that person who was killed by a train in a country far from your own. But you are responsible for helping or neglecting that person who needed help that you happen to come across. You are responsible for your own finances. You are responsible for speeding in your car or driving drunk. You can’t tell the officer that you had no free will. That excuse will not wash.
Proclaimer. …Yes it dose negate a “free will” , because at that moment you can “only” choose What you brain thinks. ,nothing free about it, you as all of us are held “captive ” buy what’s going on in our minds.
Our freedom we are given by God is to “do “, those purposes going on in our minds, which CREATES our WILL’S. But the Will “itself” is not free, it is held in a state of “captivity” by what going on in our minds. makes no difference even if you are “carnel minded” or “spiritual minded”, if you are spiritual minded your mind will be “CAUSE” buy the Spirit of God driving it to do the thing of God.
Salvation is not a state of a, “freewill”, it is a state of God placing his Spirit in our minds that “cause” us to will and do the things of God.
If salvation worked by a so called “freewill” , then there could never be a “eternal salvation” because a person could change at any time , God could not even prophesy about anyone, because he would not know what that person would ever decide to do, because according to you false understanding a person could change their WILL’S anytime they chose to. so the word “eternal life” could not ever exist for that person.
IN FACT THAT IS THE VERY LESSON WE MUST ALL COME TO SEE, THAT WITHOUT GOD DWELLING IN US FOR EVER , WE COULD NEVER HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, UNLESS HE WHO GIVES US ETERNAL LIFE FOREVER, REMAINS IN OUR MINDS FOREVER, THAT IS THE “ONLY” WAY, WE CAN BE GIVEN ETERNAL LIFE.
That is what this whole life is about , it’s to learn that lesson, and the millennial reign of Jesus Christ and the Saint’s, it is a proof that without God dwelling in us forever , no matter how much teaching the world recieve of rightiousness, without God remain us by his Spirit, as soon as evil is released, all those who don’t have the Spirit of God “in” them will fall away and do evil, like all the world does at the end of the millennium , but Jesus and the Saint’s, who have the Sprit of God in them stay loyal to God the Father and remain faithful to him, but the rest of the world change their “Will’s ” And follow Satan When he is released from his prison.
Why would they do that seening they were all taught for a thousand years the way of God and his laws? This proves it is not withing a Man himself , to direct his own steps rightly “forever” without the Spirit of God “in” him. “forever”. man can not Will himself to eternal salvation, not now or ever can or could, THAT IS THE VERY PURPOSE FOR ALL THIS CREATION OF MAN, FROM THE GARDEN OF EDEN, TO THE END OF THE MILLENNIAL REIGN OF JESUS AND THE SAINT’S. IT IS ALL ABOUT THIS VERY SIMPLE, BUT MOST IMPORTANT POINT.
God is proving this simple point to us all, eternal life is God the Father abiding “IN” US for ever.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
SIMPLE AS THAT, David is right ,
Proclaimer. …Yes it dose negate a “free will” , because at that moment you can “only” choose What you brain thinks. ,nothing free about it, you as all of us are held “captive ” buy what’s going on in our minds.
Yes, your mind makes choices. Where is your will? In your mind?
Proclaimer……Your WILL is what your mind “produces”, therefore it is held “captive” by whats going on “in” your mind. nothing free about it, there exists no such thing as a “freewill”, that Word is a “OXYMORON”, because no such thing exists as a “Will” that is free.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
“But you are responsible for helping or neglecting that person who needed help that you happen to come across. You are responsible for your own finances. You are responsible for speeding in your car or driving drunk. You can’t tell the officer that you had no free will. That excuse will not wash.”—proclaimer
of course. The sort of brain that feels it must kill people must be locked away. Because we don’t want that brain killing people. However, what this does change is how we feel about that person. We should feel about them the same as we feel about the person who got a brain tumour and became a killer. He is a victim of his brain. A victim of biology. We all have metaphorical brain tumours.
how do we feel about the grizzly bear that kills someone? Perhaps that bear must be put to death or at least stopped. But it doesn’t mean we hate the bear or feel malice towards the bear. The bear is also a victim of biology. It’s also not making choices in the way we think about choices.so we still lock away the criminal. We still stop the murderer. But we just think about them differently. If we had their brain, we would be them. And we would do exactly as they are doing.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
