- This topic has 3,825 replies, 73 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 6 months ago by
.
- Posts
Wow did Gene actually answer a question. Maybe 2021 will be a good year. Lol. You can’t tell me that miracles have ceased.
Yes amazing huh?
Someday Gene’s FreeWill might cause him to loose his fear to not answer
simple “Yes” or “No” questions, as “The Truth” does not fear an investigation.
But lies count on limited information in the minds of victims to hold them in bondage.____________
God bless
Ed JProclaimer. ….Good then there exists “no” WILL that “itself” is “truly” free, CORRECT?
Yes or no, please. In fact a “WILL” any WILL , only does what is “influencing” it THE MOST , or it simply would not be a WILL, right?
Therefore there exists no such thing as a “WILL” that is “ITSELF” free, of what is “influencing” it.
Now do we have freedom to exercise our “influenced” wills ” YES”, I have never said we don’t, but that does not make the will, “ITSELF”, “FREE”. Only the “excercising” of it, GET IT? IN FACT we are held captive by our will’s, because a will is simply the “expression” derived from the composition of our thoughts, which are driven by what is influencing our minds the most. Common sense 101.
And we drived everything from the world, because we are/ where born into the world, as John said, “all that is in the world are “of” , the world, the lust of the eyes , the lust of the flesh ,the pride of life, are of (from) the world, the world is passing away and so is the lust thereof.”
But we who have the spirit of the Father in us, are not of the world , because we have been born from above, and ” HIS (God’s) SEED ABIDES IN US. So we true believers , like Jesus, are from above.
“for greater is “he” GOD the FATHERS SPIRIT, That is ” IN” US, then he (SATAN), that is in the world.”
“KNOW YOU NOT, that YOUR BODIES! “ARE”, the TEMPLES OF THE LIVING GOD” ?, that we are “NOW” the Sons of the LIVING GOD?
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Proclaimer. ….Good then there exists “no” WILL that “itself” is “truly” free, CORRECT?
Yes or no, please. In fact a “WILL” any WILL , only does what is “influencing” it THE MOST , or it simply would not be a WILL, right?
Therefore there exists no such thing as a “WILL” that is “ITSELF” free, of what is “influencing” it.
Where do you come up with such garbage Gene?
Edj…..the garbage is you presenting a will as being “free” and not doing what is “influencing” it the most. Now that’s real garbage.
You or no one else has ever posted anything here from a will that is not driven by what is “influencing” it the most, or you simply wouldn’t post about anything. You have never had a desire to express anything that is not working in your mind, derived from things “influencing” you. Remember I have never said we do not have freedom to exercise those thoughts that captivate us,
If you say a will is FREE then nothing can “influence” it , or it simply would not be Free wold it?. That also is nothing more then common sense. We are all held “captive” by our thoughts which make up our wills, but we do have “freedom” to “express or exercise” those captivated wills (desires) derived from our thoughts.
Go back and look at your own video , and try to better understand it this time.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Gene, I believe there is something you don’t understand…
“freeWill” is “FreeWant” – in more term ideas and desires (drives).
You can’t always FREELY exorcise them
because of influences that can captivate us.Notice how I’m using your words
to help you to grasp what everyone else already knows?But you are free to decide what to decide AND that is what “FreeWill” is.
I hope you are beginning to grasp what “FreeWill” is now ???
____________
God bless
Ed JYou or no one else has ever posted anything here from a will that is not driven by what is “influencing” it the most, or you simply wouldn’t post about anything. You have never had a desire to express anything that is not working in your mind, derived from things “influencing” you. Remember I have never said we do not have freedom to exercise those thoughts that captivate us,
Proof that you are ignorant of what free will is.
Remember I have never said we do not have freedom to exercise those thoughts that captivate us,
Hilarious. That is free will. You finally came around.
What would you like us to correct next regarding your doctrine?
I wasn’t free to come to that conclusion as if to suggest I could come to another. I was “free” to only come to that conclusion. And that’s not freedom.
Thought experiment (not mine):Think of the name of city. Choose any city you WANT. Pay attention to what this conscious process of choosing a city is like. This is as free a decision as you are ever going to make. You have all the cities in the world to choose from and I’m asking you to pick one. Several cities have probably occurred to you. Choose one. Just to see what the process is like, pick a different city, not the same as the first and notice what that experience is like. Done?Okay, did you see any evidence for free will? If we can’t find it here, it’s not anywhere. First, let’s set aside all those cities you don’t know, and therefore weren’t free to choose. You couldn’t have picked one of those if your life depended on it. There is no freedom in that obviously. And then there are many other cities whose names you know, but simply didn’t occur to you to choose. Perhaps Cairo didn’t occur to you. You absolutely know Cairo is a city but for whatever reason your Cairo circuits were not engaged. WERE YOU FREE TO CHOOSE, THAT WHICH DID NOT OCCUR TO YOU, TO CHOOSE? Based on the state of your brain a moment ago, Cairo was not coming. Where is the freedom in that? You probably thought of several cities, maybe Paris and New York and Tokyo. Then maybe you thought: “I love Paris, I’m going to go with Paris.” And then at the last second you thought, “no, I’m going to go with Tokyo.” This is the sort of decision that motivates the idea of free will. You’ve got a couple of choices and you are picking between them and it’s just you with your thoughts. You are choosing, apparently. But when you look closely, you are in no position to know why you chose one over the other, in this case why you picked Tokyo over Paris. You might have some additional story you tell yourself about why you picked Tokyo. You might say: “I had Japanese food last night and remembered it, so I picked Tokyo.” We know from psychology that these stories we tell ourselves are very often false. When people are manipulated in a lab they always have some story to tell about why they did what they did and it never bares any relationship to the actual variables that caused them to behave that way. You can cause one person to like someone more than another or cooperate more by giving them a hot beverage as opposed to a cold beverage. And they never tell you that the reason they were biased as they were was because of the temperature of the beverage they were given. Psychology is filled wit evidence that we are very poor judges retrospectively of why we do what we do.But EVEN IF you were right in this instance. Even if your choice of Tokyo over Paris was based on your having Japanese food last night, this still doesn’t explain why you remembered having Japanese food last night. Or why the memory had the effect that it did. You could have reasoned, well, I just had Japanese food, so I’m going to pick something new, let’s go with Paris.YOU AS A CONSCIOUS WITNESS OF YOUR INNER LIFE, ARE NOT MAKING THESE DECISIONS. YOU CAN ONLY WITNESS THESE DECISIONS. You no more picked the city you settled on, in subjective terms, than you would have if I picked it for you.There was this first moment when I said: “pick a city.” And then there was a moment where nothing occurred to you. And then various cities start to get promoted into consciousness for reasons you can’t inspect. And it’s almost like me saying: “Telaviv…Vancouver…Paris,” and you simply hearing the words, becoming conscious of them. If you pay attention to how thoughts and intentions arise, and how decisions get made moment to moment, it’s hard to see free will.Thoughts just emerge in consciousness. We are not the author of our thoughts. That would require that we think them before we think them.If you attempt not to think, you will immediately see that this is next to impossible. Thoughts just emerge in consciousness. Your mind is flooding itself with thoughts almost all the time. And the thoughts that we feel we consciously choose to think, are merely the ones we happen to agree with.When it comes to leaning forward, you didn’t consciously decide: “I’m going to lean forward.” You were just an observer of this action. It’s similar with breathing and blood pumping. And thinking.Another similar experiment.
Choosing chocolate ice cream or vanilla.But, why would you choose one over the other? Why would you choose vanilla over chocolate? The answer: I would need to WANT it. But, can we control what we want? No. Imagine that you don’t want to punch your mother in the face. Can you decide to want to punch her? This isn’t the same as choosing to do it. Can you choose to WANT to do it? No, no more than I could choose to want chocolate over vanilla. I just wanted vanilla more than chocolate in that instance. That’s just a fact about myself that I couldn’t change.What if I decided to choose chocolate instead, just for the sake of regaining my sense of free will? The same problem is faced. In order to do that you would need to WANT to do that, to regain your free will as you see it. And why is your desire to prove a point like this stronger than your desire to have the ice cream you prefer? You can’t account for it.You cannot determine your wants. Think of something you want. Try to not want it. Or think of something you don’t want. And try to want it. (Try wanting to be attracted to men when you are heterosexual, or the reverse). It’s not possible. These aren’t free choices. And even if you were able to change a DON’T WANT into a WANT, you would need to WANT to WANT it. And vice versa. You simply can’t control what you want.What does it mean to say you do whatever you want, when you can’t control your wants? Rather than saying: “you can do what you want,” it’s perhaps more accurate to say: “you can ONLY do what you want.”You can do whatever you want. You just aren’t free to choose what you want. And where is the freedom in that?Accidental unconscious acts aren’t free. So let’s look at purposeful.There are only two reasons for which you will ever purposefully do anything–you are FORCED to or you WANT to.(Example: Many people say they don’t want to go to the gym but they go anyway. Is this an example of someone doing something freely and not because they want to? No, there has to be a reason for going to the gym—to stay healthy for example. So, why is the desire to stay healthy stronger than the desire to not go to the gym? It just is. You can’t account for it. For other people the desire to not go to the gym is stronger. For these people, why is the desire to eat junk food and not go to the gym stronger? You can’t control the strengths or objects of your desires. It’s they that control you.Free will is simple. It is the ability for a person to choose. No one denies there are reasons, compulsions, or desires influencing us.
For example: a disciple can be led by the Spirit or fulfill the lusts of the flesh at a certain moment. We may pass or fail but there are many more moments to come.
What matters is not that we fail from time to time, but that we have chosen to serve God.
This means we get back up and serve Him. Yes we will fail again. But we will also succeed again.
If we have chosen God, then every day is a new day and God’s mercies are new every morning.
Do you choose God everyday. Good. It is not a guarantee that you will not sin. But it is a guarantee that you love God and he will be faithful even when you are not.
Choosing chocolate ice cream or vanilla. But, why would you choose one over the other? Why would you choose vanilla over chocolate? The answer: I would need to WANT it.
Here’s how free will works. You can choose the one you prefer or the one you like less.
Now imagine the one you like less is more healthy. Then you have a good reason to choose it now.
Same with God and your flesh. Your choice.
Choose this day YHWH.
You are not a robot. You can be led to do the right thing and choose to obey that. But you can equally say no.
“You can choose the one you [WANT] or the one you like less. Now imagine the one you like less is more healthy. Then you have a good reason to choose it now.”
I changed your “prefer” to want, only because it’s the word I’ve used in all these posts. And as I’ve said in my posts, you are free to choose the one you want. You aren’t free to choose your wants. Or, you are only free to choose the one you want. Perhaps in that moment your “want” to be healthy is stronger than your “want” to eat either flavour of ice cream. But why in that moment did this “want” emerge in consciousness? You can’t account for it. You can’t control it. Sure, your brain if pressed will generate some story about the reason why your brain in the moment wants one over the other, whether it’s chocolate over vanilla or the more healthy food over the ice cream, but as I pointed out, those stories are often completely disconnected from reality. People create reasons when they have none and those reasons often don’t match reality.
If it’s just your brain flipping a coin, that isn’t really free will.
And if it’s just your brain spitting out the option it had to make based on everything that’s already in your brain, that doesn’t seem free either. one brain based on what’s in it can only choose one. Another brain can only choose the other. If you had my exact brain, you would be thinking my thoughts and would have no freedom to somehow magically choose to think as you now do. I cannot will myself to believe as you do.David.
If your heart is right, then you will generally make the right choices. But you might argue that it is impossible that we can make our heart right. Yet, millions have done that though.
Life is a marathon not a sprint. So one good decision leads to another and so on. Eventually you have a heart after God and your desires are his desires.
There is no argument that justifies God being unjust for judging us because of our bad decisions. When we are overwhelmed by sin, God always provides a way to escape. When the flesh is burdening us with sin, the Spirit is leading you into freedom and truth. When deception becomes so great that even the elect could be deceived, yet he increases his Spirit to counter that.
Free will is not some kind of God power that means I can choose whatever I want when I want. That is reserved for for God. Neither is it the ability to choose free of desires and compulsions. No one ever said that. It is the ability to choose good over evil, light over darkness, and love over hate. These decisions are made every day in many circumstances.
Just because you feel you don’t have free will doesn’t mean you do not have free will. Do you give that $5 in your pocket to buy a sandwich for that hungry person or do you buy yourself a coffee with it. On one hand you want a coffee and on the other, you want that hungry guy to have something to eat. It boils down to your heart doesn’t it? Your heart prioritizes things. You either have a good heart or not. Being righteous is something you choose. It starts with accepting God into your life and it grows from there. These are all decisions you make everyday. You are free to choose God everyday. No excuses. He loves you so he has made the way for you to choose. But he cannot choose for you because that is not how love works. Your choices either open more doors to freedom or close doors and put you in captivity.
God is not stopping you from arguing against the idea of free will is he? He allows you to argue for or against it thereby demonstrating free will in the very debate where people argue that it doesn’t exist.
Accidental unconscious acts aren’t free.
Not everything involves a decision by us. Free will doesn’t require that.
Free will is the ability to choose God or not and that spans down to many levels. It also includes deciding between what appears to be many meaningless acts.
Many things are unconscious acts however because they do not require a free will decision to be made.
When I am driving I make a conscious decision to stop, turn in a particular direction at the fork in a road, or whatever. But much of the time I am in autopilot mode.
Same with walking. I might make the decision to avoid standing on a crack in the sidewalk for a stupid reason, but much of the time, I am walking in autopilot mode. I’m not really making decisions on walking, but am doing it all the same.
Free will just means that when you need to make a decision about something, you can.
It doesn’t mean you haven’t got free will because you can’t decide to flap your wings and fly. That is something you cannot do rather than something you can decide for yourself.
Free will means you have a will that is free to decide among legitimate options that are presented to us.
Proclaimer. …..Wrong And Will Requires a decision on our part or it simply would not be a “will” , now would it? Don’t you understand that a “WILL” is the “result”, of decisions, taking place in our minds? what is being feed into our minds drives our “WILL’S, nothing free about it.
the term “freewill” , Is an OXYMORON, because no such thing exists.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
