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Have a situation in control doesn't mean that it is predestined.
Quote The potter has absolute Power over the clay to make it any way He wants, with or with out the clays permission. So are we puppets then? Wouldn't God prefer a person's love, rather than his forced devotion? Wouldn't he prefer what any parent would?
David ……….> God creates LOVE also in us,” For the love of God is shed around in your hearts. Were more like clones then we think we are to (IMAGE) God, how do you think that done by our so call “FREE WILLS”, No God the Father does it by His Spirit He Creates us unto good works., BY Grace are you saved and that not of yourselves, God comes into and causes Us to (IMAGE) Him , Man Hates the thought of that because He likes to think He is his own captain of his destiny which is man trying to be his own GOD, I call an, (I GO
Man Hates the idea of the Sovereignty of God who is all knowing and in all control over everything. Why is that?
peace ……….gene
Quote (chosenone @ June 10 2008,11:23) Quote (gollamudi @ June 10 2008,10:43) Wonderful my brother 942767,
If you are able to choose to obey God without any influence then you are really using your free will. If not I differ with you on free will. I only believe I don't have even abillty to obey God because my flesh nature can not obey God's commandments. “There is nothing that good lies in me” I always praise God who gives me grace to obey His will not that I can freely choose myself. I am always influenced by His Spirit which abides in me to obey His(God's) will I don't find any free will in this.
Thanks
Adam
Hi gollamudi.
Right on, I agree with you.Blessings.
Gollmaudi………..right on brotherLove and peace to you and yours…………..gene
gollamudi……..it never stops amazing me how ease you get these things and How so many others can't. It's a true sign of the Spirit of truth at work, you just naturally understand these things. Thats how i know you have God's spirit you don't have to be convinced by anyone you just know. And when you post something i see it that way also, it's just amazing Brother.
Adam Have you ask God's something specific and have it happen, it you haven't yet please do so. And see what will happen.
Love and peace to you and yours………….gene
Thanks brother Gene,
Whenever I read your posts I get strengthened by them often. You rightly told I asked God to reveal Himself to me that was my prayer all these days. Now He is fulfilling my desire and prayers. I learnt lot of things from you and few brothers and sisters here in this forum especially on Trinity, pre-existence and free will.
People may think that I am biased towards you I don't care about that as long as God is leading us in His truth we need not worry about that. You know two of my brothers are in Gods's ministry and they are Pastors and I am only an ordinary believer but God is revealing me many mysteries from His scriptures. I am very much thankful to Him and also to all of you who are encouraging me.
May God bless you all
AdamQuote (Gene Balthrop @ June 11 2008,13:48) Man Hates the idea of the Sovereignty of God who is all knowing and in all control over everything. Why is that?
Well in a general sense I think man is comforted that there is direction and meaning to the universe, where things come apart is in the level of control. If we have no will at all, if God arranged every last detail, then it makes life largely meaningless, our struggles, our defeats, our victories, our very salvation or damnation are all out of our hands. What's the point? Why would God create us in the first place? Now while I freely admit that man is limited, our power is limited, we live in a plane of limitations, but within these pre-established limits we do have choices and in that context I think they are our own. No there is nothing I can do to make God save me, I don't have the power, but I do have the power to make my own life here on earth better or worse for the choices I do make. I can make it better or worse for others around me in measure to the power I do have. God created us with minds that can analyze and measure and a spirit to help us decide right and wrong, why give us these gifts if we were not to exercise them? If we truly did not have will then how would you explain the state of the world? If there was only divine will and nothing else in play then the world would not be such a place of conflict.Hi Cato,
Of course you points are valid. I suggest you kindly gothrough this article given below in a link. It may be helpful to you. It is a wonderful article written by C.H.Spurgeon.
http://www.biblebb.com/files/spurgeon/elect.htm
Thanks
AdamQuote (Gene Balthrop @ June 11 2008,16:07) gollamudi……..it never stops amazing me how ease you get these things and How so many others can't. It's a true sign of the Spirit of truth at work, you just naturally understand these things. Thats how i know you have God's spirit you don't have to be convinced by anyone you just know. And when you post something i see it that way also, it's just amazing Brother. Adam Have you ask God's something specific and have it happen, it you haven't yet please do so. And see what will happen.
Love and peace to you and yours………….gene
A true sign…not necessarily…maybe he just agrees…the spirit is at work with all genuinely ask and seek itQuote (gollamudi @ June 11 2008,23:47) Hi Cato,
Of course you points are valid. I suggest you kindly gothrough this article given below in a link. It may be helpful to you. It is a wonderful article written by C.H.Spurgeon.
http://www.biblebb.com/files/spurgeon/elect.htm
Thanks
Adam
Like many such writings there are parts that have merit and parts I take exception with. Unfortunately as a sermon no doubt delivered orally to a known, friendly congregation, it contains the obligatory posturing meant to elicit emotion or entertain his audience. These facets seem to at times obscure the message. Personally, I believe in free will, I believe that eventually all will be saved as through learning and experience the individual will accept the divine and align his own will accordingly. No one will want to spend eternity spitting into the wind or spiting themselves which is what opposition to divine will brings. I believe it is divine will that we evolve and his will be done despite our best efforts to muck it up. Yet as we are individuals our progression will be irregular and different from person to person just like in a school, there will be fast learners and slow, those of higher and lower grades, yet I think it is one of no soul left behind in the end.Quote (Cato @ June 11 2008,23:07) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 11 2008,13:48) Man Hates the idea of the Sovereignty of God who is all knowing and in all control over everything. Why is that?
Well in a general sense I think man is comforted that there is direction and meaning to the universe, where things come apart is in the level of control. If we have no will at all, if God arranged every last detail, then it makes life largely meaningless, our struggles, our defeats, our victories, our very salvation or damnation are all out of our hands. What's the point? Why would God create us in the first place? Now while I freely admit that man is limited, our power is limited, we live in a plane of limitations, but within these pre-established limits we do have choices and in that context I think they are our own. No there is nothing I can do to make God save me, I don't have the power, but I do have the power to make my own life here on earth better or worse for the choices I do make. I can make it better or worse for others around me in measure to the power I do have. God created us with minds that can analyze and measure and a spirit to help us decide right and wrong, why give us these gifts if we were not to exercise them? If we truly did not have will then how would you explain the state of the world? If there was only divine will and nothing else in play then the world would not be such a place of conflict.
Cato…..You have ask a lot of questions, l will try to answer some of them.
you ask why did Did God create us in the first place?, The answer is simple, because He wanted to share life with others and He wanted to have a Father Son relationship with us. But in order for that to happen we need to (experience) good and Evil, and see for ourselves how good and evil effects life. So he placed us in a good and evil environment temporarily, in this life form to experience good and evil and death also. He even causes us to experience these things it is his way of teaching us right and wrong. He put within us a Carnal natured that are an enemy to Him just as it says the Carnal mind (the one we are born with) is a enemy of God , is not subject to the laws of God neither can be. He did not place us here to be come our own I GOD's, as with our own so called (FREE WILLS) . This whole thing is part of God's creating works, He is in control of every facet of it. From the earth it self down to micro organisms, everything without any exceptions. Once you understand that you will see it's not about your So Called (FREE WILL) at all, in fact the only WILL that will be done is the Fathers Will and no other. Didn't Jesus say that “thy kingdom come (THY) WILL BE DONE.You say you have (POWER) to make your life better or worse from the choices you make., those choices are caused choices drived from past assoicatons, If you were exposed to what and raised with the exact same things as Hitler was you woudl choose to do the same things he did. Have you ever heard the term except for the (GRACE) of God there go I. You reasoning and choices have nothing to do with Free Will they are the result of past exposure and learning and that directs all your choices its cause and effect thats all. When God is directing our thought we will choose His WILL not our wills Just as Jesus Did. Saying Not my WILL but THY WILL BE DONE. And again it is written in the volume of the books i come to do thy will “O” GOD. I hope and pray the FAther will completely remove (MY OWN) WILL and INSTALL HIS WILL in me, i have absolute no problem with that and you could call it being a robot , a clone , I don't care i pray that will happen to all of us.
IMO…….gene
Once again thanks for that post brother, Gene, I have gone through that C.H Spurgeon's article on “Election”, really amazing it is to know that the creator is in full control over our feeble lives. How much we sholud be grateful for choosing us to be His sons and daughters not because of our greatness but because of His grace.
I thank you once again for revealing such wondress works of God Almighty.
AdamGollamudi…………I am glad at least you can understand it what the word say and means. Even if other can't seam too.
Peace to you and yours…………….gene
Quote (dirtyknections @ June 12 2008,01:07) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 11 2008,16:07) gollamudi……..it never stops amazing me how ease you get these things and How so many others can't. It's a true sign of the Spirit of truth at work, you just naturally understand these things. Thats how i know you have God's spirit you don't have to be convinced by anyone you just know. And when you post something i see it that way also, it's just amazing Brother. Adam Have you ask God's something specific and have it happen, it you haven't yet please do so. And see what will happen.
Love and peace to you and yours………….gene
A true sign…not necessarily…maybe he just agrees…the spirit is at work with all genuinely ask and seek it
DK….. Jesus said my sheep hear my voice and will not follow a false Sheppard , there is a ring to spiritual truths that those of the spirit hear. Why do you think Adam does not follow the false teachings of the trinitarians no man taught him that, the spirit of God lead him to understand it.IMO…………gene
Hi GB,
There was no ring of truth to your suggestion that the apostles in Acts were not yet mature or educated in their actions.Nick……..So Peter did not do wrong as Paul said and Paul and Barnabas never had a disagreement and i guess they did grow in grace and knowledge either, Nick you need to reread the book of Acts. WE as well as they are to continue to grow in grace and knowledge.
There were a lot of things that they learned as they matured in the Faith, Like clean and unclean foods, God had to show Peter what He cleaned was clean because he still had ideas in his head about clean and unclean foods.
Nick they and us are all learning, they were human just like we are and the grow in understanding also.
IMO………..gene
Nick………you didn't answer the previous post is it right or wrong nd why do you keep change the subjects all the time., I have no problem with water baptizm as i have said all along, but i know by scripture that Baptism of Spirit and Fire is what really counts , thats the one the apostles received on the day of Pentecost.
And that's when they received Power from on High like Jesus said they would and their ministry started. It did not tart when they were water baptized in fact they weren't even converted till they received the baptism of Spirit and Fire.
IMO…………….gene
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