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T8………Do you see what i am saying, i am not talking about the expression or exercising of our will allowed by God , I am talking about the very WILL ITSELF I think maybe you and other have confused what i am talking about.
peace and love to you and yours brother……………………………………………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 04 2012,09:12) T8………Do you see what i am saying, i am not talking about the expression or exercising of our will allowed by God , I am talking about the very WILL ITSELF I think maybe you and other have confused what i am talking about. peace and love to you and yours brother……………………………………………………………………gene
gwe know that but it seems you do not
Hi Gene: having a “Free Will” means to chose your path freely.
Will: used to express determination, insistence, persistence, or willfulness
Free: Not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.
Free Will: determination and persistence to be able to act as one wishes not under the control or power of another
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Gene Balthrop @ July 04 2012,02:09) Quote (Ed J @ July 03 2012,00:28) Quote (Ed J @ July 02 2012,05:08) No mention of 'captivated wills'? 
?
EDJ………..Yes Brother, all our wills are captivated by our thoughts, and are subject to them , that is why they are not FREE. Where is say Christ came to set the captives FREE he was referencing a Person being held captive by his or her thinkings, which controls there will, . Here is a scripture that may help, i will quote it off the top of my head, “the Lord lead captive and host of captives” this to me means were all held captive and he changes our captivity we were under to a new captivity of God. Now how did Jesus himself do that , not my will be done, but thy will be done EDJ do you follow what i am saying brother?Peace and love to you and yours…………………………………….gene
Gene B.How can you separate will from thought?
Our thoughts is our will.
No thoughts no will.wakeup.
Gene, in order to have a choice there has to be choices.
And in order for their to be choices each choice has to be something that we can understand, feel, or comprehend.Then you have the right to choose freely given that you have all the facts so to speak.
We have a free will. i.e., we are free to choose among the choices that are on offer. That is why we are accountable for our choices. If we were not free to choose, then why would we be accountable for our choices and following actions.
This argument of yours was a silly one from the beginning and it hasn't got less silly as you have progressed in your defense. It is a war of words and as such a waste of everyone's time.
Time is precious gene. Once you have spent it, it is gone.
T8……….Yes and that Choice is PREDICATED on something . If i offered you three pieces of Pie say a Cherry, Apple, or Berry, you would Choose the one you liked best. Now was your choice a FREE Choice or a “PREDICATED ONE” a Influenced Choice. So that is NOT a Choice you made from a FREE “WILL” But a influenced Choice. Again for the hundredth time I am Not talking about our LIBERTY to Exercise our “influenced Wills” i am talking about the working of the WILL ITSELF.
peace and love………………………………………gene
Quote (Ed J @ July 04 2012,03:36) Hi Gene: having a “Free Will” means to chose your path freely. Will: used to express determination, insistence, persistence, or willfulness
Free: Not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.
Free Will: determination and persistence to be able to act as one wishes not under the control or power of another
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org
EDJ…………Look at you first definition of a WILL (ITSELF) Does it not say used to express “DETERMINATION” , “INSISTENCE” “PERSISTENCE” , “WILLFULNESS” Non of that comes from a FREE SOURCE no does it. It is a “CONTROLLED” EFFECT produced by “DETERMINATION” and that determination is produced by an “INFLUENCE” of some kind.While the word FREE show there is NO INFLUENCE no Control or power of anything else. Get It
The term a “FREEWILL” is an OXYMORON………No will is FREE “ITSELF” I am not talking about GOD granting us the LIBERTY of EXERCISING our CAPTIVATED WILLS>
Do you see what i am saying EDJ.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 05 2012,08:49) T8……….Yes and that Choice is PREDICATED on something . If i offered you three pieces of Pie say a Cherry, Apple, or Berry, you would Choose the one you liked best. Now was your choice a FREE Choice or a “PREDICATED ONE” a Influenced Choice. So that is NOT a Choice you made from a FREE “WILL” But a influenced Choice. Again for the hundredth time I am Not talking about our LIBERTY to Exercise our “influenced Wills” i am talking about the working of the WILL ITSELF. peace and love………………………………………gene
genewhat would you call it if we onlly handed you a cherry pie
now what choice is it ??
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 05 2012,01:49) T8……….Yes and that Choice is PREDICATED on something . If i offered you three pieces of Pie say a Cherry, Apple, or Berry, you would Choose the one you liked best. Now was your choice a FREE Choice or a “PREDICATED ONE” a Influenced Choice. So that is NOT a Choice you made from a FREE “WILL” But a influenced Choice. Again for the hundredth time I am Not talking about our LIBERTY to Exercise our “influenced Wills” i am talking about the working of the WILL ITSELF. peace and love………………………………………gene
Hi Gene,“Free Will” says: I will pass on the pies – as I'm trying to loose weight.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Gene Balthrop @ July 05 2012,02:02) Quote (Ed J @ July 04 2012,03:36) Hi Gene: having a “Free Will” means to chose your path freely. Will: used to express determination, insistence, persistence, or willfulness
Free: Not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.
Free Will: determination and persistence to be able to act as one wishes not under the control or power of another
Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org
EDJ…………Look at you first definition of a WILL (ITSELF) Does it not say used to express “DETERMINATION” , “INSISTENCE” “PERSISTENCE” , “WILLFULNESS” Non of that comes from a FREE SOURCE no does it. It is a “CONTROLLED” EFFECT produced by “DETERMINATION” and that determination is produced by an “INFLUENCE” of some kind.While the word FREE show there is NO INFLUENCE no Control or power of anything else. Get It
The term a “FREEWILL” is an OXYMORON………No will is FREE “ITSELF” I am not talking about GOD granting us the LIBERTY of EXERCISING our CAPTIVATED WILLS>
Do you see what i am saying EDJ.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene
Free Will: determination and persistence to be able to act as one wishes not under the control or power of anotherEDJ……….Your putting FREE and WILL together, “DETERMINATION” is not FREE at all it is DETERMINED showing a PREDISPOSITION about something. You still thinking i am talking about the LIBERTY GOD has GRANTED us to us or “PREDETERMINED” WILLS. A predetermined Will is NOT a “FREE” WILL it is ” A “CAPTIVE” WILL or it would not be DETERMINED. Scripture shows our Will are Predetermined and predisposed and act accordingly we must be set FREE form that, and Brought in the PREDETERMINED WILL of GOD. Again you and many are confusing what i have said , I am not saying we do not have Liberty or Freedom to “EXERCISE” our PREDETERMINED WILLS because we do, to a point, That God allows.
Even in you answer about the Pie show a Predisposition that controlled you choice not to choose. Cant you see that? We as God does do thing after the “COUNCIL” of our WILL, Those will of our must be put in subjection to GOD WILL as Jesus did his WILL. Our life are determined by our will becasue it drives us to do what we do, So it say : he who hold on to “HIS” Life shall loose it , but he who puts his (Life) (the way he lives) to death for the kingdom of Gods sake shall SAVE it> It is all about the Wills OURS or GOD'S. But no Will is FREE “ITSELF”> Not Man or GOD'S, all are held captive by our thoughts, man or GODS. IMO
peace and love EDJ………………………………………………………………..gene
Hi Gene,
It's not our “Will” that needs to be put to death, but the 'ego'.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Gene,
We can feel put God's will above our own – after all, we have a “Free Will”.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Gene Balthrop @ July 05 2012,04:49) T8……….Yes and that Choice is PREDICATED on something . If i offered you three pieces of Pie say a Cherry, Apple, or Berry, you would Choose the one you liked best. Now was your choice a FREE Choice or a “PREDICATED ONE” a Influenced Choice. So that is NOT a Choice you made from a FREE “WILL” But a influenced Choice. Again for the hundredth time I am Not talking about our LIBERTY to Exercise our “influenced Wills” i am talking about the working of the WILL ITSELF. peace and love………………………………………gene
Gene it was a free choice because I can choose any of the pies and I can choose to not have any as well. Free will goes with the fact that there are things to choose.You are making a big deal out of nothing here.
You are spending other people's time on something trivial.
We will all be held accountable as to what we did with our time.
Please show some respect and discuss things that are important or matter.
Is it not our mission to help others spend their time with matters of the Kingdom.
Drawing men away from that is not something to be proud of or something we should engage others with. It is not of the spirit.
T8……….Why can't you see i am not talking about the CHOICE begin a FREE “CHOICE”, I am talking about the WILL (ITSELF) is not FREE, becasue it is influenced and what ever you Chose it will be the result of “YOUR” WILL, and that WILL “ITSELF” is NOT FREE, even though you are give a “FREE” CHOICE. All WILLS are “driven” by “INFLUENCES” or they simply would not be a WILL, now would they? Again you and others are confusing what i have said with us having FREEDOM to Use of our “CAPTIVATED” Will, with the WILL itself .
T8……..You say it is not a “BIG DEAL” is that why Jesus said many times NOT MY WILL BUT THY WILL BE DONE, why did he say that if it was not a “BIG DEAL” . Interesting Jesus said He came not to do “HIS: WILL but the Will of Him who sent Him, and again Paul said “I find not good thing in me because to “WILL” is Present in me”. and again, “it is not of him who “WILLS” but God who calls and Justifies”. The Subject of WILL is very important rather you believe it or not T8. IMO
peace and love………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 06 2012,01:40) Jesus said many times NOT MY WILL BUT THY WILL BE DONE, why did he say that
Hi Gene,Because his “Free Will” choice was to put God's will above his own. …as we must all freely choose that as well.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Gene Balthrop @ July 06 2012,04:40) T8……….Why can't you see i am not talking about the CHOICE begin a FREE “CHOICE”, I am talking about the WILL (ITSELF) is not FREE, becasue it is influenced and what ever you Chose it will be the result of “YOUR” WILL, and that WILL “ITSELF” is NOT FREE, even though you are give a “FREE” CHOICE. All WILLS are “driven” by “INFLUENCES” or they simply would not be a WILL, now would they? Again you and others are confusing what i have said with us having FREEDOM to Use of our “CAPTIVATED” Will, with the WILL itself . T8……..You say it is not a “BIG DEAL” is that why Jesus said many times NOT MY WILL BUT THY WILL BE DONE, why did he say that if it was not a “BIG DEAL” . Interesting Jesus said He came not to do “HIS: WILL but the Will of Him who sent Him, and again Paul said “I find not good thing in me because to “WILL” is Present in me”. and again, “it is not of him who “WILLS” but God who calls and Justifies”. The Subject of WILL is very important rather you believe it or not T8. IMO
peace and love………………………………………..gene
Gene you are wasting time on silly things again.Jesus said, “not my will but yours”.
He was able to freely choose another's will besides his own.
His will was free because he was able to freely give it up or to freely take it.
Gene, again you are playing with words and have been all along. Just admit you are wasting people's precious time on this and then you won't be held accountable for wasting their time because you will be repenting by admitting it. Or let pride rule and continue to teach that there is a meaningful difference when there is not.
Your choice. Your will. Your are able to crucify your will on this one, or continue with it and waste more time by sticking with your will.
What will you do.
T8……..Again you refuse to see i am “NOT”talking about the FREE Choices we have, but the “WILL ITSELF” so in your case it is a waste of time. I do agree with that>
peace and love …………………………………………..gene
Hi Gene,
God gave us our “WILL”; are you suggesting he was wrong for doing so?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEDJ………….NO I am not suggesting he was wrong in giving us “LIBERTY” to exercise our “captivated” WILL, How else could we come to “KNOW” what is right and wrong? Notice i used the Word “KNOW” that does not imply just a Knowledge about something, but a Knowledge about something by having a inmate relationship with something. There is a difference GOD allows us to exercise our own Biased minds and therefore our own Biased WILLS , But as i have said hundreds of times that does not mean our very WILLS “themselves” are “FREE” we must be set FREE from them and Rejoined to the WILL of GOD, by the power of God working (IN) us. Just as it say he works “IN” us “BOTH” to “WILL” and do of “HIS GOOD PLEASURE”. We must get to the point of Jesus and say not my will be done but thy will be done IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………………………………………g
ene
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