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Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 25 2010,17:15) Be of good cheer brother Ed J.
Thank you brother Adam,I always try to be of good cheer!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (gollamudi @ Nov. 25 2010,16:41) What are biblical and theological reasons for compatibilism and against incompatibilism? 1. The Bible never says that humans are free in the sense that they are autonomously able to make decisions that are not caused by anything. Libertarian free will is often merely assumed based on common-sense experience but not proved.
2. God is absolutely sovereign. He “works all things according to the counsel of his will” (Ephesians 1:11). He does whatever he wants, and no one can stop him (Psalm 115:3; Daniel 4:34-35).
3. Humans are morally responsible, which requires that they be free. There is no biblical reason that God cannot cause real human choices. The Bible grounds human accountability in God's authority as our creator and judge, not in libertarian free will.
4. Both (1) God's absolute sovereignty and (2) human freedom and responsibility are simultaneously true. Here are just a few of many passages in which both elements are present without any hint of contradiction. “The heart of man plans his way, but the LORD establishes his steps…. The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the LORD” (Proverbs 16:9, 33). “This Jesus, delivered up according to the definite plan and foreknowledge of God, you crucified and killed by the hands of lawless men” (Acts 2:23). “For truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place” (Acts 4:27- 28).
5. The Bible condemns some people for acts not done with a libertarian free will. For example, Judas Iscariot was destined to betray Jesus, which means that he did not have the ability either to do it or not.
6. God is omniscient (e.g., he predicts future events). John Feinberg observes, “If indeterminism is correct, I do not see how God can be said to foreknow the future. If God actually knows what will (not just might) occur in the future, the future must be set and some sense of determinism applies. God's foreknowledge is not the cause of the future, but it guarantees that what God knows must occur, regardless of how it is brought about” (“God Ordains All Things,” in Predestination and Free Will: Four Views of Divine Sovereignty and Human Freedom [ed. David Basinger and Randall Basinger; Downers Grove: IVP, 1986], 33- 34).
7. God breathed out Scripture through humans without violating their personalities. The way that God inspired the Bible requires compatibilism.
8. God enables Christians to persevere: Christians work because God works (cf. Philippians 2:12- 13). Indeterminism would mean that Christians can reject Christ and lose their salvation, but the Bible teaches that all genuine Christians are eternally secure and will persevere to the end by God's grace.
9. God himself does not have a free will in the libertarian sense. Can God sin? If not, then he does not have a libertarian free will, and thus a libertarian free will is not necessary for a person to be genuinely free.
10. God's people do not have free wills in heaven in the libertarian sense. Will God's people be able to sin in heaven? If not, then they will not have a libertarian free will, and thus a libertarian free will is not necessary for people to be genuinely free.
Source: http://www.reformation21.org/articles/do-we-have-free-will.php
Adam….Right on brother, Good Post. I do agree, there exists no such thing as a WILL that is “FREE” not with GOD or MAN. the term “FREE WILL” is and OXYMORON> There would simply be NO WILL if it were “FREE” we would be tommy toms, walking into wall not knowing what to do. Autonomy does not exist in WILLS. All will are produced by comparing one thing with another and that requires past association of some kind, So the will derives it source from that past association. Even GOD it say Does (ALL) thing after the (counsel) of His WILL. This Council is derived by His Past assoications also. That is why GOD way are the sum total of all Wisdom. IMOpeace and love to you and yours Adam…………………………….gene
Thank you very much brother Gene. Hope others also will see the truth in my post above.
Love and peace to you
AdamThe LORD plans and a man plans.
When a man's plan doesn't align with God's plan, then guess who will prosper?
When a man's plan is to do God's plan, then that man will prosper.
We all know that the LORD will prosper either way.
This is the choice that we all have. Even Jesus had that choice.“Remove this cup from me, but not my will but your will”.
Of course you are free to not believe that we can choose or that even the son of God could choose freely.
Think of it this way.
You are free to sell your house, but your wife might not want to sell it and so she is free to not sell it. So yes we are free to do what we want, but we are naturally constrained by circumstances and other things. Not to mention the will of the LORD.You might also choose to go for a walk in the park, but might be constrained to a wheelchair, meaning that you are not free to do so.
Ultimately our will is able to choose among options that are possible. That is why scripture is FULL of references to choosing the right way or choosing God because choosing to do wrong or choosing not the will of God is actually possible in case you haven't figured that out yet.
Again, I am surprised that this needs to be spelled out. If you can't consume milk, then what chance do you have of eating meat? Is it any surprise then that those who can't drink this milk also struggle on more meaty issues such as the mystery of Christ.
T8……….The question is what was driving that choice , was it something that was “FREE” Will or (Influenced) Wills. Brother it was (INFLUENCED) WILLS even in the Garden of Eden , Eve's will, to eat of the Knowledge or Good and evil , was an (INFLUENCED) Will, would you not agree with that brother ?
peace and love…………………………………………………….gene
T*…………The point is not are we “FREE” to sell our house , the question is if you decide to what (CAUSED YOU TO) we are not talking about our liberty to exercise our (INFLUENCED) WILLS, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT DO WE HAVE OPERATING (in) US A WILL THAT IS IN ITSELF “FREE” that is (NO) all wills are (INFLUENCED WILLS) Or they simply would not be WILL. That is why i said the term “FREE WILL” is an Oxymoron none exists. Your confusing GOD allowing us to Liberty to exercise our captivated Wills as if we Possessed “FREE WILLS” do you see what we are saying brother?
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………….gene
Quote (t8 @ Nov. 27 2010,06:22) The LORD plans and a man plans.
When a man's plan doesn't align with God's plan, then guess who will prosper?
When a man's plan is to do God's plan, then that man will prosper.
We all know that the LORD will prosper either way.
This is the choice that we all have. Even Jesus had that choice.“Remove this cup from me, but not my will but your will”.
Of course you are free to not believe that we can choose or that even the son of God could choose freely.
Think of it this way.
You are free to sell your house, but your wife might not want to sell it and so she is free to not sell it. So yes we are free to do what we want, but we are naturally constrained by circumstances and other things. Not to mention the will of the LORD.You might also choose to go for a walk in the park, but might be constrained to a wheelchair, meaning that you are not free to do so.
Ultimately our will is able to choose among options that are possible. That is why scripture is FULL of references to choosing the right way or choosing God because choosing to do wrong or choosing not the will of God is actually possible in case you haven't figured that out yet.
Again, I am surprised that this needs to be spelled out. If you can't consume milk, then what chance do you have of eating meat? Is it any surprise then that those who can't drink this milk also struggle on more meaty issues such as the mystery of Christ.
Hi brother T8 I am happy at least you agreed that our wills are influenced and are under constraints. That it self proves my subject of “Myth of Free Will”. We are not infants who need milk but most of the fundamentalist Christian literalists who never read scriptures with critical mind only believes blindly that God wrote or inspired all human made scriptures. But they ignore all errors and contradictions. Today many born again believers are leaving Christianity because of this narrow mindedness of fellow Christians and preachers. If Christian scriptures were God inspired there could not have been so many divisions among Christians right from early centuries of Christianity. Please don't blame brothers for such divisions as you claim whoever differs with you are infants and unbelievers. That is not fair on part of a true believer.
I am sorry for these difficult words.
Peace to you
AdamHi Adam,
I agree with you there brother, that
our doctrinal beliefs do not determine
whether or not we are true Christians!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgAn Atheist's far cry:
“Free Will”, You Say?
It is also written that I was given free will with which to choose if I will go to hell or not. How can you possibly deem something free when you must fear consequences? That completely conflicts with the definition of free. If I were to hold a gun to your head and say “you have free will to not give me your wallet, but if you attempt to defy me I will kill you.” Does it really feel as if you have a choice in the matter? Of course not. Free means to give or receive something with out an expectation of return. The whole free will concept is self defeating. Call it Circumstantial Will, for that is what it truly is.
Despite this, I have still had the displeasure of debating with those Christians who accept hell as a rational and fair wrath of God. They defend Jehovah’s creation of hell with the opinion that those who are committed to hell go voluntary, as if it is a consequence rather then a punishment. That indeed, we as children of God, chose rather to be hell’s inmates then God’s disciples in heaven. It’s an interesting idea. However, you don’t have to hurt anyone to get into Hell. All it takes, according to Scripture, is knowing about Jesus and not accepting him as Savior. It doesn’t matter how virtuous you are, how much good you do, how happy an environment you create for others. Given this, the voluntary entry argument doesn’t make sense. The same argument could be used to justify the sending of Aryan opponents of Nazism to concentration camps: they voluntarily chose not to give homage to Hitler, so they chose to be interred. Why should we blame the Nazis for the inmates’ choice? Why should we blame God for the choice of the damned?
Adam…………..Well said, free will thinking is a major stumbling block to Christians, it cause people to self focus and give credit for life and righteousness to the self, displacing GOD as the Source of Life and eternal righteousness, by reducing his power of salvation and puts it into the hands of Man. And as you have brought out a Choice of do or die is hardly a “FREE” WILL Choice is it? Good post Adam.
peace and love to you and yours Adam…………………………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 15 2010,00:50) Adam…………..Well said, free will thinking is a major stumbling block to Christians, it cause people to self focus and give credit for life and righteousness to the self, displacing GOD as the Source of Life and eternal righteousness, by reducing his power of salvation and puts it into the hands of Man. And as you have brought out a Choice of do or die is hardly a “FREE” WILL Choice is it? Good post Adam. peace and love to you and yours Adam…………………………………………gene
Thank you brother Gene for your positive comments.Love and peace to you
AdamHi Adam.
I agree with you're opinion on “free will”. Scripture says “God is operating all, in accord with His Will” (Eph. 1:11)
Scripture also says in 1Tim.2:3-4 … for this is ideal and welcome in the sight of our Saviour, God,
Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.God Bless, Jerry.
To All,
Having no “Free Will” is definitely a MYTH!
God created us after his likeness, so we
also operate in all in accord to our Will!God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 16 2010,01:40) Choseone ………..Right on brother. peace and love to you and yours……………………………………gene
Hi brother Gene and Jerry,
Thanks for your positive comments on 'Myth of Free Will' which make God a weak and disable.Love and peace to you
AdamWit, your video is “BS”!
YHVH has free will as well,
and chooses not to do evil, as
we must also choose not to do evil.
If you have any questions, please ask.Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
עד Ed (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14 / Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)
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