Free Will?

Participant

Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 17 2010,01:59)

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 16 2010,15:17)

you are not true ,

if i can sin then i can also do not sin,and i can chose what will be my influence,

but it was you quote that has influence me and i have accepted that influence and so respond to it ,

do you understand me

Pierre

Hi brother Pierre,
It's not so easy to say as in your words. We can not choose so freely as you think brother. Please read St Pual's agony on this so called free will in Rom 7:

14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

If Paul was having so called Free Will to choose 'only good' he could have not uttered such helpless words. It is through the spirit of God believers can choose good apart from sin. Where is this Free Will brother? This is the fate of our Bible it claims both ways.
So what can you?
Peace to you
Adam

Adam

freewill,for a christian,is very simple,God trough Jesus ask one question;do you want to comes to me and my father??

you say why? he says because i am the light and live and we will give you all that ,but you have to answer me yes or no and step in my house ,if your answer is yes,if it is no you stay outside,and i lock the door.

so in a way the free will is only to say yes or no to the grace of God trough Christ.

but we are not forced or pushed to do it ,yes they are influences, but we can over come them all,it is our decision,this allow God to judge us all,according to that choice.(yes or no,no matter)
Just as the Israelites swore to upheld the law as one man,this was there choice.

Pierre

November 18, 2010 at 6:53 am#225401

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 18 2010,15:07)

Adam

freewill,for a christian,is very simple,God trough Jesus ask one question;do you want to comes to me and my father??

so in a way the free will is only to say yes or no to the grace of God trough Christ.

Pierre

Hi brother Pierre,
You asked me a question of Jesus to come to him and God based on Free Will if so why on earth he gave this statement “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.” (John 6:44). So blame our Bible not me it says no free will only God draws him. How long we beat the bush?

Peace to you
Adam

November 19, 2010 at 2:47 am#225545

Proclaimer

Participant

Well even with free will, you still need to know what the choices are.
Once you are drawn or made conscious of the options, you can still say no.

November 19, 2010 at 2:57 am#225549

Participant

Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 18 2010,23:53)

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 18 2010,15:07)

Adam

freewill,for a christian,is very simple,God trough Jesus ask one question;do you want to comes to me and my father??

so in a way the free will is only to say yes or no to the grace of God trough Christ.

Pierre

Peace to you
Adam

Adam

Lk 8:12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.
Lk 8:13 Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.
Lk 8:14 The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature.
Lk 8:15 But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop

you are called Adam,the letter you hold in your hands is the invitation,what you have to do is answering it ,yes or no

you are drawn but you refuse to be drawn.

Pierre

November 19, 2010 at 4:36 am#225569

Participant

Hi brother Pierre, do you think I have not been drawn by God? you think I am damned to Hell?
The fate of Christianity is everyone thinks others are unbelievers except him.

November 19, 2010 at 5:33 am#225578

Participant

Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 19 2010,21:36)

Hi brother Pierre, do you think I have not been drawn by God? you think I am damned to Hell?
The fate of Christianity is everyone thinks others are unbelievers except him.

Adam

I will answer you after the second resurrection,
if it is alright with you?? :cool: :cool:

Pierre

November 20, 2010 at 3:04 am#225696

Participant

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 19 2010,12:47)

Well even with free will, you still need to know what the choices are.
Once you are drawn or made conscious of the options, you can still say no.

T8………….What you have done here in answering Adam is exactly the problem with Preexistences they alway have some way out of a truthful answer to the point given, So you think we with out So-called ” FREE WILLS” by being given a Change and us Choosing by the Works of our “FREE” WILL having a (CHANGE) to Chose or Make the Right Choice. That view (TOTALLY) NEGATED THE WORK OF GOD THE FATHER (IN) US and Jesus also. You present GOD as weak and unable to truly save us unless we by our so-called “Free WILLS” we grant him permission, because God forbid He would change us and give us the FAITH to accept that Power of HIS to draw us to Jesus and save Us>

Can't you see you are saying YOU save yourselves by your own Choices , you don't need GOD at all Just your Own “FREE WILLS” will do it.

peace and love……………………..Gene

November 20, 2010 at 3:36 am#225703

Participant

Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 19 2010,21:36)

Hi brother Pierre, do you think I have not been drawn by God? you think I am damned to Hell?
The fate of Christianity is everyone thinks others are unbelievers except him.

Adam

if you have heard the good news of the gospels,and you feel that you can answer yes to the call ,what are you waiting for,

drawn could mean two things,;first that it is the other person who tells you to get in;;secondly;it is wen you hear the call you are attracted to it because you like the proposition in it and so you are drawn ,but it still is God s word, that you are drawn to, and that draws you,is it not???

Pierre

November 20, 2010 at 3:43 am#225704

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 20 2010,13:04)

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 19 2010,12:47)

Well even with free will, you still need to know what the choices are.
Once you are drawn or made conscious of the options, you can still say no.

Can't you see you are saying YOU save yourselves by your own Choices , you don't need GOD at all Just your Own “FREE WILLS” will do it.

peace and love……………………..Gene

Yes brother Gene you are right. Brother Pierre curses me to be damned to second death. He is waiting for second resurrection to see me judged there for not accepting this Free Will which is Oxymoron as you rightly said. If by Free Will all we Indians come to God of Christians that would be amazing as per their claim. But the sad thing is not many Indians are chosen by Christian God. If God is the one who draws Christians to Jesus and He only chooses few to His kingdom where is the question of this Free Will to choose God and become Christian? No one willfully wants go to Hell fire. But most of us here say People use Free Will and go to Hell. Where is real justice here? These are some of questions run through my mind.

Thanks and peace to you
Adam

November 20, 2010 at 4:03 am#225705

Participant

Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 20 2010,20:43)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 20 2010,13:04)

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 19 2010,12:47)

Well even with free will, you still need to know what the choices are.
Once you are drawn or made conscious of the options, you can still say no.

Can't you see you are saying YOU save yourselves by your own Choices , you don't need GOD at all Just your Own “FREE WILLS” will do it.

peace and love……………………..Gene

Thanks and peace to you
Adam

Adam

you should read it again because you have interpreting it wrong,like so many things,

i did not condemn you ,the second resurection is were everyone who is not in the first resurection will be ,so if we meet there it would not be bad after all,who am I to know

and you tell me how can I condemn you ??am I God?? only God will be your judge ,not me.

so do not say lies,what is not true is a lie

Pierre

November 20, 2010 at 3:11 pm#225781

Participant

Terricca…………Your ignorance alway goes before you, and your words of accusations are not of God or Jesus as you suppose they are. In fact it is you who will probably be in the second resurrection seeing you also teach the doctrine that separates us from our Lord and brother Jesus the Christ by moving his exact identity away from us. You glory in you so-called “FREE” WILL and do not realize you are held (CAPTIVE) by that will and have not been set free from it yet. IMO

gene

November 20, 2010 at 3:28 pm#225784

Participant

Adam…………..Don't worry about what Pierre says , he opens his mouth and then sticks his food in it. He blurts out something then tries desperately to some how retract or change his words. You are right in what you have said GOD Selects and calls and Justifies all his true Childern now and in the future, it is a WORK of GOD Brother, not of Man by his so-called “Fee Will”. Remember it say “UNLESS THE LORD SHALL BUILD THE HOUSE THE WEARY BUILDERS BUILD IN VAIN”, and again “IT IS GOD WHO WORKS (IN) YOU (BOTH) TO (WILL) AND DO OF (HIS) GOOD PLEASURE”. Why would it say we are saved by GRACE and That not of OURSELVES, if our so-called “FREE” WILLS had anything to do with it? If that were the case it should say we are saved by our own FREE WILL Choices , who would need GOD then because we could do it ourselves. These blind bats have no idea what they are saying IMO. I have noticed the more blinder they are the more they accuse and condemn others. I also have noticed that the ones who seen to always start personal attacks are Preexistences and Trinitarians as well as the (SELF WILLED) or so called FREE WILLER'S.

peace and love to you and yours Adam………………………………………….gene

November 20, 2010 at 4:15 pm#225788

Participant

Thank you very much for such encouraging words brother Gene.
May God bless you with more wisdom on His scriptures.

Love and peace to you
Adam

November 20, 2010 at 11:28 pm#225834

Proclaimer

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 20 2010,13:04)

Quote (t8 @ Nov. 19 2010,12:47)

Well even with free will, you still need to know what the choices are.
Once you are drawn or made conscious of the options, you can still say no.

Can't you see you are saying YOU save yourselves by your own Choices , you don't need GOD at all Just your Own “FREE WILLS” will do it.

peace and love……………………..Gene

We are told many times that we should choose to be led by the Spirit rather than succumb to the desires of the flesh. We are told to choose this day who we should serve. We are told that we can choose to love our brother and to love God.

Your doctrine undermines all this and more.

Furthermore, we are responsible for our actions only because it is up to us what we do.

Your doctrine suggests that we have no control over such and yet even then, we become responsible for things that are out of our control.

Imagine Judgement Day. Why did you look at that woman and lust over her? I couldn't help it. Yes that is right, you were not free to choose not to lust after her, but as you know, this is sin and I have to judge you according to my word.

How fair is God then if he judges us and yet we had no choice to opt out of that which incurred judgement?

Now compare to the reality that we choose to serve God or not. If we choose to serve him and ask for forgiveness when we sin, then we have chosen and God spares us. If we choose to sin, and not to serve God, then we have chosen and we are responsible for the lifestyle we chose.

No excuses please. We are responsible because we have a choice.

November 21, 2010 at 1:55 am#225858

Participant

it start to look like Adam his the student of Gene who act as the minister,

they always come in pairs,insulting ,tell things we do not say,and the other comes to support the arrogance of the other or vise versa,

just look at there few past comments,in all there topics.

Pierre

they should be in the unbeliever section they only support there own view if they have any??

November 21, 2010 at 9:02 am#225889

Participant

T8……..My doctrine does not say we have no control over thing in fact it is just the opposite because what GOD the Father Has (GIVEN) US IS THE WILL AND DESIRE TO OVERCOME JUST AS JESUS DID. But you FREE WILLER'S take that away from GOD and put it into your own Hand by your falsely called “FREE WILLS”. Now let talk here about this scripture for a change even though i have quoted it many times, no one not even you have yet to commit on it. “FOR IT GOD WHO WORKS (IN) US (BOTH) TO (WILL) AND (DO) OF (HIS) GOOD PLEASURE”. Please tell us how you understand this wiht you “FREE WILL” concepts.

That along should through you so-called “free will” thing out, So let see how you get out of that scripture , by the way there are many, many, more Scripture that shown GOD active intervention in our lives directly not indirectly through our own (captivated) Wills. Will that are far from being “FREE”. IMO

peace and love………………………………………..gene

November 21, 2010 at 9:11 am#225890

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 21 2010,11:55)

it start to look like Adam his the student of Gene who act as the minister,

they always come in pairs,insulting ,tell things we do not say,and the other comes to support the arrogance of the other or vise versa,

just look at there few past comments,in all there topics.

Pierre

they should be in the unbeliever section they only support there own view if they have any??

Terricca………………I could say the same thing about you and T8 and mike, and Irene right? You just go around looking for an opportunity to open you big mouth and put your own foot in it most of the time. You simply accuse and try to insult and intimidate people who do not agree with your ignorance and predisposed ideologies.

gene

November 25, 2010 at 6:41 am#226418