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Hi Gene:
You say:
Quote Thats one of the reasons why i believe everyone will eventually be saved and it has nothing to do with Mans so called (FREE WILL) but only Gods Will. If everybody will eventually be saved what about the following scripture:
Quote Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their theftsYou believe that they will be saved even though they did not repent?
Hi 942767,
Why are you worried about this portion?
“many are called but few are chosen” God causes every thing in this world according to His will and wish. Whatever in us is only evil nothing good exists we can not choose good at all only God causes us to know Him and be saved by His grace (Eph 2:8-10). Even to come to the light is because God causes us to do that. No evil person can choose by himself to come to the light.
If at all anyone in this world used his so called free will he is the one failed miserably and many are such examples in the Bible. Please don't see such examples my brother to prove this another dogma of 'free will'.
Take care
AdamGollmaudi……….It still amazes me how easily you understand that and so many other can't, they just don't see how absolute (Sovereign) the Father is. Once a person has that light in them so many things fall together in the scriptures. Every time i see you respond with this understanding God has given you it truly lifts my Spirit, and i rejoice at how our Father is truly using You. Never let go of the One on One connection with Him you have, always praying in the Spirit and He will show you many more things. Continue to listen to the Spirit that guiding you brother.
love and Peace to you and your………gene
Quote (gollamudi @ June 08 2008,04:37) Hi 942767,
Why are you worried about this portion?
“many are called but few are chosen” God causes every thing in this world according to His will and wish. Whatever in us is only evil nothing good exists we can not choose good at all only God causes us to know Him and be saved by His grace (Eph 2:8-10). Even to come to the light is because God causes us to do that. No evil person can choose by himself to come to the light.
If at all anyone in this world used his so called free will he is the one failed miserably and many are such examples in the Bible. Please don't see such examples my brother to prove this another dogma of 'free will'.
Take care
Adam
Hi Brother:We are saved by Faith so it may be by grace, and our faith is a gift from God to be sure. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
There are some like the Apostle Paul, for example, that God in whose lives God has worked something special, but even then it was the Apostle Paul's choice whether or not he chose to obey the Lord.
But I have the freedom to exercise by free will God will not force me to obey Him.
And so, I am not particularly worried, but I just have a different understanding then what you and Gene seem to believe.
God's will is that all men should come to repentance. To the church his commission is to go and preach the gospel to whomever will hear. He has seen who will believe and who will not that much is true.
Jesus makes the following statement:
Quote Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. And then explains what he meant by this here:
Quote Jhn 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
Jhn 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.God Bless
942757….> what you posted has nothing to do with the subject of Free Will, because all those things can be a matter of God causeing you to believe them sure whosoever bleives in Him should not parish, but where does (Free Will) come in < because Jesus said no man (CAN) come unto me, except the Father
(DRAG) him. You see none of those things you quoted goes aganist causality, we are caused to go to Jesus How by revelation in our minds to reconise Jesus and His words, it all a work of cause and effect performed by God the Father.Peace to you and your……….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 08 2008,05:19) 942757….> what you posted has nothing to do with the subject of Free Will, because all those things can be a matter of God causeing you to believe them sure whosoever bleives in Him should not parish, but where does (Free Will) come in < because Jesus said no man (CAN) come unto me, except the Father
(DRAG) him. You see none of those things you quoted goes aganist causality, we are caused to go to Jesus How by revelation in our minds to reconise Jesus and His words, it all a work of cause and effect performed by God the Father.Peace to you and your……….gene
Hi Gene:The following verse states that no man can come unless the Father “draw” him. You say “drag” him?
Quote Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. I am sorry Gene you seem to be convinced that you are teaching this correctly, but I can't agree.
God Bless
Hi GB,
It is all about grace.
But soil types differ, soft soil responds.
As Peter showed in his second letter we must seek grace.
Hebrews 6:7
For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:Hi 942767,
Please don't misunderstand Gene's words, by this time you must be knowing what he believes. I know you are differing with us on “free will” OK no problem you are at liberty to choose that way. Again I caution you whoever used their so called free will failed miserably in this world. Unless God the creator causes us to do His will we can not obey His will in our sinful bodies because nothing good that exists in us. Take the example of Jesus who chose His Father's will than his and received the name above all names and appointed as Judge to judge those who want to use their so called free wills.
Take care
AdamQuote (Gene Balthrop @ June 07 2008,09:30) Dk….. I have written a lot on so called (FREE WILL) there is no such thing as free will, thats an oxymoron because all things are the result of cause and effect. This conforms to all science and Psychological evidence. Nothing takes place with out a cause and that includes our salvation.. We do not go to Jesus on our own, Jesus said no man can come to me unless the Father drag him. Satan does not want you to think that God will absolutely save you no matter what, so He came up with this idea You have self destination which is controll by your own “FREE WILL”, a pure lie. “For He (GOD) works in us (BOTH) to (WILL) and do HIS PLEASURE”and again ” know ye not that you are saved by the grace of God and that not of yourself.”, and again “for we are (HIS) workmanship created unto good works, Jesus said only one will was to be done and it wasn't our will is was GOD”S WILL > Thats one of the reasons why i believe everyone will eventually be saved and it has nothing to do with Mans so called (FREE WILL) but only Gods Will. Because God is the Only one i believe who has FREE WILL. No one else does.
If you can understand GOD is able to get inside you and cause you to respond they way he wants, then your confidence in Him will grow.Peace brother ………..gene
That's Über-Calvinism if ever I saw it!!
Quote (gollamudi @ June 08 2008,15:21) Hi 942767,
Please don't misunderstand Gene's words, by this time you must be knowing what he believes. I know you are differing with us on “free will” OK no problem you are at liberty to choose that way. Again I caution you whoever used their so called free will failed miserably in this world. Unless God the creator causes us to do His will we can not obey His will in our sinful bodies because nothing good that exists in us. Take the example of Jesus who chose His Father's will than his and received the name above all names and appointed as Judge to judge those who want to use their so called free wills.
Take care
Adam
No, sorry brother:God does not force himself on anyone. It is our choice first whether or not to accept the free gift of salvation. We confess Jesus as our Lord in sincerity with a repentant heart then we become a new creation in Christ Jesus. Our sins are forgiven and God becomes the Father of our spirit not by force but because we chose to be reconciled unto him.
He then as our Father leads us unto all truths in the Word of God but it is up to us to apply what He teaches us. We make mistakes and the blood of Jesus washes away those sins when we repent. We become like Jesus as we learn to apply the Word of God to our daily life, but without the blood that was shed in our behalf we would not be able to overcome sin. We see here that we have to cooperate with the Father and our Lord in order to become what he intends for us.
Jesus said, “If you love me keep my commandments”. Yes, I do love you Lord, and yes, I will keep your commandments Lord because I want to (free will) to please you out of my love for you, and thank you for the blood that you shed for me to help me when I make a mistake to wash away my sin and keep me in the state of holiness.
God Bless
942767…….Please explain this then Spoken by Jesus……..NO MAN (CAN) come to me (EXCEPT) the Father (DRAG) Him. How does so called (FREE WILL) fit here. No one who believes in Free Will seem to be able to explain this (Why)?.
And this only One of Many scriptures i can show that disproves (FREE WILL) ideology's But lets Just start Here First.Peace to you ……..gene
Isa 1:18……….this is no about Calvinism at all, If Calvin believed there was No Such thing as (FREE WILL) fine, i could care less. I Didn't get what i know about FREE WILL from him or his teachings at all. If you disagree and believe in free will then please post you beliefs, why try to label some one. Whats your point.
peace………..gene:)
Quote (942767 @ June 07 2008,14:44) Hi Gene: You say:
Quote Thats one of the reasons why i believe everyone will eventually be saved and it has nothing to do with Mans so called (FREE WILL) but only Gods Will. If everybody will eventually be saved what about the following scripture:
Quote Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their theftsYou believe that they will be saved even though they did not repent?
942767…..the people in Rev 9:20 will inter into a fiery Judgment with God in the second resurrection and by this intense Judgment that God will bring on them, then they will repent. What you are quoting is what these people are doing in this life, they will come up and be cast into intense judgment (Lake of Fire) “for our GOD is a Consuming Fire”.This fire is compared to Fire that purifies Gold by melting it and the dross floats to the top and is skimmed off, the gold is purified in fire, symbolically that is whats meant by men being cast into the lake of fire. God's intense judgment is like a fire that purifies us.
The book of revelations was (signified) which means (symbolized). The lake of Fire is symbolic language, and not literally a physical fire, as most think.
IMO…….gene
peace to you…………gene
Nick….I thought Jesus said it hasn't be given to them to understand the things of the kingdom but unto (you) (the Chosen Disciples) it has been given. So if it hadn't been given to them then how could they understand?
Please give me your understanding of the word grace.
Hi GB,
We naturally have no understanding or wisdom or ability that is anything but earthly.
The rest is grace.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 08 2008,19:07) Nick….I thought Jesus said it hasn't be given to them to understand the things of the kingdom but unto (you) (the Chosen Disciples) it has been given. So if it hadn't been given to them then how could they understand? Please give me your understanding of the word grace.
Marvellous, you have spoken for me my brother, Gene. That's why Jesus spoke kingdom mysteries in parables so that no one can understand what were they meant for except those for whom it was granted.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 08 2008,17:54) 942767…..the people in Rev 9:20 will inter into a fiery Judgment with God in the second resurrection and by this intense Judgment that God will bring on them, then they will repent. What you are quoting is what these people are doing in this life, they will come up and be cast into intense judgment (Lake of Fire) “for our GOD is a Consuming Fire”.
This fire is compared to Fire that purifies Gold by melting it and the dross floats to the top and is skimmed off, the gold is purified in fire, symbolically that is whats meant by men being cast into the lake of fire. God's intense judgment is like a fire that purifies us.
The book of revelations was (signified) which means (symbolized). The lake of Fire is symbolic language, and not literally a physical fire, as most think.
IMO…….gene
peace to you…………gene
As few are thinking that Jesus was literal light that was created by God on the day One.gollamudi…….absolutely right It's not given to everyone at this time God is only choosing certain one to be servants in the Kingdom when Jesus comes. Thats why it says many called (FEW) Chosen. The message goes out to many but only a (FEW) get it.
This is how you can know the spirit of truth from the spirit of error, those who understand it get it real easily because the Spirit is revealing it to them and it becomes logically and understandable to them with out confusion.
Thats how i know you understood these simple truths by the sound of the Spirit coming from you words. We are told to try the Spirits to See if they are of God, but you see only those who have the Spirit can do that. Those who don't have cant do that, thats how you know they are no of God.
Adam don't let all these confusions through you off, if you continue in prayer and have a relationship exactly like Jesus with the Father He will guide you and preserve your thinking as he is now doing.
peace and joy in the Spirit brother……….gene
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