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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 03 2010,01:21) Tim……..I am still waiting for (ONE) Scripture that says we have a “FREE” Will (IN) us. Confusing a Liberty given us to exercise our (captivated) (influenced) Wills as us having a “FREE” WILL operating (IN) us is an error. IMO God plainly said “it is not within a man to direct his paths” it must be placed there, therefore David say direct my ways, put my feet in a straight path, . NO man will come unto God on His own , He must be drawn to Him, as Jesus plainly said “no man (can) come unto me unless the Father draw Him. If we have “FREE” wills then why would he say that, He simply would have said you can FREELY Chose to come unto me. But no he says you can not on your own why? is that not because your will will never on it own decide to truly come to God or Jesus. IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
genehow could you see those scriptures,?you are blind to them we have shown you a pile of them,but you can not see what you do not want to see.
Pierre
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 03 2010,01:21) Tim……..I am still waiting for (ONE) Scripture that says we have a “FREE” Will (IN) us. Confusing a Liberty given us to exercise our (captivated) (influenced) Wills as us having a “FREE” WILL operating (IN) us is an error. IMO God plainly said “it is not within a man to direct his paths” it must be placed there, therefore David say direct my ways, put my feet in a straight path, . NO man will come unto God on His own , He must be drawn to Him, as Jesus plainly said “no man (can) come unto me unless the Father draw Him. If we have “FREE” wills then why would he say that, He simply would have said you can FREELY Chose to come unto me. But no he says you can not on your own why? is that not because your will will never on it own decide to truly come to God or Jesus. IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
Hi Gene,Wait no longer.
Ezra:7:13: I make a decree, that all they of the people of Israel, and of his priests and Levites,
in my realm, which are minded of their own freewill to go up to Jerusalem, go with thee.God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd j ………That is your (big) problem you are forcing the text to fit what it is not really saying, Those who were at Liberty to exercise their OWN WILL” Freely”, does not equal them having a “FREE” WILL (IN) Them. The scripture you are trying to force to mean what it does not mean, Is Ezra telling them if they willing wanted to go up to Jerusalem they were FREE to do So so in that sense they could go or not go it was up to them. Now lets ask who would go up those whose WILL was causing to go up they were influenced to go up by the own Wills and were Free to if they (wanted) to. But the Want was derived (IN) them not buy a So-called “free” Will in them but an influenced Will. And they wer allowed to (FREELY) excercise that WILL the WAS (IN) them.
Still looking for the (ONE) Scripture that Say WE Have a “FREE WILL” (IN) us. not one the you force the text to conclude that.
peace and love…………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 03 2010,02:23) Ed j ………That is your (big) problem you are forcing the text to fit what it is not really saying, Those who were at Liberty to exercise their OWN WILL” Freely”, does not equal them having a “FREE” WILL (IN) Them. The scripture you are trying to force to mean what it does not mean, Is Ezra telling them if they willing wanted to go up to Jerusalem they were FREE to do So so in that sense they could go or not go it was up to them. Now lets ask who would go up those whose WILL was causing to go up they were influenced to go up by the own Wills and were Free to if they (wanted) to. But the Want was derived (IN) them not buy a So-called “free” Will in them but an influenced Will. And they wer allowed to (FREELY) excercise that WILL the WAS (IN) them. Still looking for the (ONE) Scripture that Say WE Have a “FREE WILL” (IN) us. not one the you force the text to conclude that.
peace and love…………………………….gene
Hi Gene,How long will you keep the blinders?
Psalm 54:6 I will freely sacrifice unto thee:
I will praise thy name, O LORD; for it is good.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 03 2010,02:23) Ed j ………That is your (big) problem you are forcing the text to fit what it is not really saying, Those who were at Liberty to exercise their OWN WILL” Freely”, does not equal them having a “FREE” WILL (IN) Them. The scripture you are trying to force to mean what it does not mean, Is Ezra telling them if they willing wanted to go up to Jerusalem they were FREE to do So so in that sense they could go or not go it was up to them. Now lets ask who would go up those whose WILL was causing to go up they were influenced to go up by the own Wills and were Free to if they (wanted) to. But the Want was derived (IN) them not buy a So-called “free” Will in them but an influenced Will. And they wer allowed to (FREELY) excercise that WILL the WAS (IN) them. Still looking for the (ONE) Scripture that Say WE Have a “FREE WILL” (IN) us. not one the you force the text to conclude that.
peace and love…………………………….gene
geneyou just confirm again and again that you want to be blind to Gods truth.
and it is not God influence,
Pierre
Gene: I am honestly lost on this topic of “free will”. The most powerful and protected thing between God and man is the free choice or free decision to make a choice of what to believe in this life. I believe that if a man says that God visited him visually in his room and
spoke audibly to him, though that would be a powerful and magnificent thing, the one thing you could count on would be that even if God himself or an Angel were there, they would not tell you what to do or what choice to make. Man is individually responsible for his own created
Kingdom within. Man is in control of his own Kingdom. He runs it his way. Some may be good some may be bad but man is the controller.
I know of no scripture that quotes “I give you free will”. Yet God does offer in his word, life or death and says you choose. There would be no way to choose freely if you were being guided or influenced in any way shape or form. I personally do not believe we are puppets
being controled. I will say however that the spirit of God/love within a person influences love fruit outside the person. From the abundance of the heart a man speaks. God is love and love does not control! IMO TK
Tim ………..You almost see it brother. The big problem with Man is the fact He (thinks) He is Free to Chose , that was also Adam and Eves down Fall, GOD Did not tell then the could (chose or not Chose to eat of the tree of Knowledge of good and evil) No he commanded them not to eat of it or they would die. They decided by there (INFLUENCED) WILLS to disobey GOD. and man has ever sense done the same thing. He is influence by the lust of the eyes and the lust of the flesh and (PRIDE) of Life , to act as a (FREE) Agent thinking He is FREE to make His own decisions as to what is right or wrong him even now, but those will that drive those choices are (INFLUENCED) Ones and are captivated by their thoughts and the are not Free at all.
I have ask ED J and Terrarcca, many time to show (ONE) Scripture that says man Has a “FREE” WILL (IN) Him they never have produce ONE, and never Will either. Because there exists no such thing as a Will the is FREE, in fact the very word WILL proves that is is not “FREE” or it simple would not be a Will. The word itself mean influenced desire that is what a will is. The term “FREE” would exclude a Will from being a Will at all. “FREE WILL”, that is to say a Will that is FREE, is an OXYMORON.
It is not found anywhere in scripture . There is only one WILL that will be done and that is GOD”S WILL and even that will is NOT “FREE” . “For God does (ALL) things after the (COUNCIL) of HIS WILL. Even GOD'S will is a Counseled Will. nothing FREE about IT. The same with our Wills they are Far from being “FREE” , but we are given LIBERTY for a Time to exercise our captivated Will However. BUT that time will cease and (ONLY) GOD'S Will will be done (AS) it is in heaven. Then God will be (IN) all and Through ALL. Carnal man hates the though of God being in (COMPLETE) Control over Him, because he is a God unto himself by believing he has a will the is totally “FREE”, personally i Love the idea that God's Will is the only Will that will be done. God doesn't need any consent from us to perform His will with us. Most people who are self WILL are ego centric They focus on them selves for everything including there salvation. They think they are in control and give God permission to do what he want do with them, but they are the real one in control. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………….gen
Gene: Ok, were getting closer to agreement. I have to go back to some of my quantum theories studies, where all was, in the beginning, was God, a united, plasmic, flowing fabric of living, creative consciousness, at 0-point energy to the 31power, where all of existence is entangled as ONE living creation.
Yes I believe everything evolved forward from that life force that was everything that is, was or ever will be. This is God (for me) and it is all living energy that exists, constantly evolving higher and ever changing form. From this we eventually came forth, so in essence, weare all from ONE source and thereby would be influenced by our core life force/God. Yet the way God created Man and gave him control and dominion in the earth realm of relative phyicality its a bit different. Because we were separated mentally by total amnesia at birth with a clean
mind, it was so we are not aware of who we really are. We come to earth for to many reasons to go into here but one is knowing beforehand that we had to die to our original God/selfs to be able to experience what it would be like to be separated from God.
Though we could never really be separated we had no conscious awarness of our connection. This means we would be recurring human beings on earth until we feel the urge of God/source that our physical learning is complete and we are ready to go home. Then we must lay our earthly life (die to physical self, to take on Christ/spirit) down and re-create our minds (born again to spirit) to who we really are and have always been.
This way would have been the least amount of influence and the most individuality a piece of God could have. So we kinda agree, I can't argue that there has to be some influence of will but it is guarded and protected to be the least possible influence. Lord I hope Kerwin and Ed J don't read this one. They will think I do drugs. Peace and love to you Gene I love your IMO, so I use it to. TK
Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 03 2010,21:28) Gene: Ok, were getting closer to agreement. I have to go back to some of my quantum theories studies, where all was, in the beginning, was God, a united, plasmic, flowing fabric of living, creative consciousness, at 0-point energy to the 31power, where all of existence is entangled as ONE living creation.
Yes I believe everything evolved forward from that life force that was everything that is, was or ever will be. This is God (for me) and it is all living energy that exists, constantly evolving higher and ever changing form. From this we eventually came forth, so in essence, weare all from ONE source and thereby would be influenced by our core life force/God. Yet the way God created Man and gave him control and dominion in the earth realm of relative phyicality its a bit different. Because we were separated mentally by total amnesia at birth with a clean
mind, it was so we are not aware of who we really are. We come to earth for to many reasons to go into here but one is knowing beforehand that we had to die to our original God/selfs to be able to experience what it would be like to be separated from God.
Though we could never really be separated we had no conscious awarness of our connection. This means we would be recurring human beings on earth until we feel the urge of God/source that our physical learning is complete and we are ready to go home. Then we must lay our earthly life (die to physical self, to take on Christ/spirit) down and re-create our minds (born again to spirit) to who we really are and have always been.
This way would have been the least amount of influence and the most individuality a piece of God could have. So we kinda agree, I can't argue that there has to be some influence of will but it is guarded and protected to be the least possible influence. Lord I hope Kerwin and Ed J don't read this one. They will think I do drugs. Peace and love to you Gene I love your IMO, so I use it to. TK
Hi Tim,Do you believe we all pre-existed with God?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ July 03 2010,22:53) Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 03 2010,21:28) Gene: Ok, were getting closer to agreement. I have to go back to some of my quantum theories studies, where all was, in the beginning, was God, a united, plasmic, flowing fabric of living, creative consciousness, at 0-point energy to the 31power, where all of existence is entangled as ONE living creation.
Yes I believe everything evolved forward from that life force that was everything that is, was or ever will be. This is God (for me) and it is all living energy that exists, constantly evolving higher and ever changing form. From this we eventually came forth, so in essence, weare all from ONE source and thereby would be influenced by our core life force/God. Yet the way God created Man and gave him control and dominion in the earth realm of relative phyicality its a bit different. Because we were separated mentally by total amnesia at birth with a clean
mind, it was so we are not aware of who we really are. We come to earth for to many reasons to go into here but one is knowing beforehand that we had to die to our original God/selfs to be able to experience what it would be like to be separated from God.
Though we could never really be separated we had no conscious awarness of our connection. This means we would be recurring human beings on earth until we feel the urge of God/source that our physical learning is complete and we are ready to go home. Then we must lay our earthly life (die to physical self, to take on Christ/spirit) down and re-create our minds (born again to spirit) to who we really are and have always been.
This way would have been the least amount of influence and the most individuality a piece of God could have. So we kinda agree, I can't argue that there has to be some influence of will but it is guarded and protected to be the least possible influence. Lord I hope Kerwin and Ed J don't read this one. They will think I do drugs. Peace and love to you Gene I love your IMO, so I use it to. TK
Hi Tim,Do you believe we all pre-existed with God?
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed J: I believe everything pre-existed with God because in the beginning was all God. Everything came from and is part of God. Bless you, TKTim ………..> it does appear everything came from (ONE) God , i do agree with you on that brother.
peace and love ……………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 03 2010,15:41) Tim ………..You almost see it brother. The big problem with Man is the fact He (thinks) He is Free to Chose , that was also Adam and Eves down Fall, GOD Did not tell then the could (chose or not Chose to eat of the tree of Knowledge of good and evil) No he commanded them not to eat of it or they would die. They decided by there (INFLUENCED) WILLS to disobey GOD. and man has ever sense done the same thing. He is influence by the lust of the eyes and the lust of the flesh and (PRIDE) of Life , to act as a (FREE) Agent thinking He is FREE to make His own decisions as to what is right or wrong him even now, but those will that drive those choices are (INFLUENCED) Ones and are captivated by their thoughts and the are not Free at all. I have ask ED J and Terrarcca, many time to show (ONE) Scripture that says man Has a “FREE” WILL (IN) Him they never have produce ONE, and never Will either. Because there exists no such thing as a Will the is FREE, in fact the very word WILL proves that is is not “FREE” or it simple would not be a Will. The word itself mean influenced desire that is what a will is. The term “FREE” would exclude a Will from being a Will at all. “FREE WILL”, that is to say a Will that is FREE, is an OXYMORON.
It is not found anywhere in scripture . There is only one WILL that will be done and that is GOD”S WILL and even that will is NOT “FREE” . “For God does (ALL) things after the (COUNCIL) of HIS WILL. Even GOD'S will is a Counseled Will. nothing FREE about IT. The same with our Wills they are Far from being “FREE” , but we are given LIBERTY for a Time to exercise our captivated Will However. BUT that time will cease and (ONLY) GOD'S Will will be done (AS) it is in heaven. Then God will be (IN) all and Through ALL. Carnal man hates the though of God being in (COMPLETE) Control over Him, because he is a God unto himself by believing he has a will the is totally “FREE”, personally i Love the idea that God's Will is the only Will that will be done. God doesn't need any consent from us to perform His will with us. Most people who are self WILL are ego centric They focus on them selves for everything including there salvation. They think they are in control and give God permission to do what he want do with them, but they are the real one in control. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………………………….gen
genein 2ch 29-31 it talks about putting yourself apart;is this by influence or voluntary will ,(freewill)
in 2ch30-5 it talks about being invited;if you are invited do you have a choice to refuse or to accept the invitation
is it not up to you to accept or to refuse it??if so then there is free will;if not why invite people if they do not have a choice??Pierre
Terricca………….Learn to believe Jesus, He said (NO) man (CAN) come unto me unless the Father draw Him. Not a so-called “FREE” WILL choice at all. Look up the word Draw in the GREEK it might enlighten you. IMO
peace and love……………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 06 2010,09:46) Terricca………….Learn to believe Jesus, He said (NO) man (CAN) come unto me unless the Father draw Him. Not a so-called “FREE” WILL choice at all. Look up the word Draw in the GREEK it might enlighten you. IMO peace and love……………………gene
genei did not ask you for linguistics but to look at the scriptures i quote and to respond to the questions ,if you would be so kind
Pierre
Gene,
Those that are drawn chosen by the Father to be drawn to Jesus, are already 'Willing'. That is why they are chosen. Even Judas, even though he also had alterior motives, and this was foreknown by God that it should occur just as He had prophesied.
Did Jonah not run away using his own Will, his own desire, being in needless fear for his life, when God told him to preach to the Ninevens?
Did Satan not sin because of his own Will, his own desire, to be worshipped?
Did Abraham not give in to Sarah and conceive Ishmael, against God's promise?
More….plenty more…The point being:
If all 'WILL' is 'Influenced Will' then the common everyday use of the word, 'Will' is therefore understood to be 'Influenced Will'…therefore there is no need to state that 'Will' is 'Influenced Will'…except in Defining Terms.
So, let us agree that 'Will' means 'Influenced Will' for our everyday use.
And where it is for a deeper meaning then open it up and state 'inflienced Will'.Everything that is done, is done with other things in mind. Every action has purpose and a reaction.
Every action, every Actioned Will, Actioned Desire, is INFLUENCED by the calculated outcome of the purpose against the reaction and a final decision of that 'Councill', that 'Calculation' is the decisive act: Jonah feared for his life more than he feared the wroth of God; Abraham feared dying before asceeding to the promise of a son.
Yes, their 'Free Will' was influenced by external, fleshly desires that are not in accord with the 'influenced Will' of God.God was 'influenced' to punish Jonah for his lack of faith. God was 'influenced' to punish Abraham by sending away his firstborn son in disgrace, but relented, even, because He made a promise to Abraham that from his seed would come Kings, so even Ishael produced Kings, because God's WILL does not change. God's WILL, that which He purposes and Actions, never changes…but those Within the purpose and the action, might, but the outcome is as God Willed it…..for He says, 'These things must come to be, but woe to him from whom these things come to be'.
Therefore, there is choice…choice, else Jesus' death was for nothing.
Choice, choice to believe, or not, for God desires that we come to him of our own 'free influenced Will', our Free Will, Influenced by the desire to do right and shun bad, to love God, to want to worship him because we see that Only He Is Righteousness, and Truth, and Love.Yes, we have 'Free Will' but it is 'Influenced' by the desires of our own heart, to do the Will our own 'godlikeness' and not of 'The Godlyness'.
So do we agree on 'Will', that all 'Will is 'Influenced' but not having to state that it is 'Influenced'. That it is a 'given'?
Now, Move on.
Quote (JustAskin @ July 06 2010,15:58) Gene, Those that are drawn chosen by the Father to be drawn to Jesus, are already 'Willing'. That is why they are chosen. Even Judas, even though he also had alterior motives, and this was foreknown by God that it should occur just as He had prophesied.
Did Jonah not run away using his own Will, his own desire, being in needless fear for his life, when God told him to preach to the Ninevens?
Did Satan not sin because of his own Will, his own desire, to be worshipped?
Did Abraham not give in to Sarah and conceive Ishmael, against God's promise?
More….plenty more…The point being:
If all 'WILL' is 'Influenced Will' then the common everyday use of the word, 'Will' is therefore understood to be 'Influenced Will'…therefore there is no need to state that 'Will' is 'Influenced Will'…except in Defining Terms.
So, let us agree that 'Will' means 'Influenced Will' for our everyday use.
And where it is for a deeper meaning then open it up and state 'inflienced Will'.Everything that is done, is done with other things in mind. Every action has purpose and a reaction.
Every action, every Actioned Will, Actioned Desire, is INFLUENCED by the calculated outcome of the purpose against the reaction and a final decision of that 'Councill', that 'Calculation' is the decisive act: Jonah feared for his life more than he feared the wroth of God; Abraham feared dying before asceeding to the promise of a son.
Yes, their 'Free Will' was influenced by external, fleshly desires that are not in accord with the 'influenced Will' of God.God was 'influenced' to punish Jonah for his lack of faith. God was 'influenced' to punish Abraham by sending away his firstborn son in disgrace, but relented, even, because He made a promise to Abraham that from his seed would come Kings, so even Ishael produced Kings, because God's WILL does not change. God's WILL, that which He purposes and Actions, never changes…but those Within the purpose and the action, might, but the outcome is as God Willed it…..for He says, 'These things must come to be, but woe to him from whom these things come to be'.
Therefore, there is choice…choice, else Jesus' death was for nothing.
Choice, choice to believe, or not, for God desires that we come to him of our own 'free influenced Will', our Free Will, Influenced by the desire to do right and shun bad, to love God, to want to worship him because we see that Only He Is Righteousness, and Truth, and Love.Yes, we have 'Free Will' but it is 'Influenced' by the desires of our own heart, to do the Will our own 'godlikeness' and not of 'The Godlyness'.
So do we agree on 'Will', that all 'Will is 'Influenced' but not having to state that it is 'Influenced'. That it is a 'given'?
Now, Move on.
JA……….Re read what you have written you are indeed right to a point , you have accurately describe our will as (INFLUENCED) and that is right, But then later you add “FREE” to that WILL , can't you see that is contradictory to what you are saying . No where in scripture does it say we have a “FREE” Will operating (IN) us , we have liberty to exercise our captivated or influenced Wills. that my friend is a BIG difference.JA……….The reason i harp on this is because it is the very reason Adam and Eve and all of man kind have fallen away from God, by thinking they are a ” FREE” agent Having the right and power to “FREELY” Choses what ever they desire. This is the very focus of all sins it is this “FREE” of attachment to the WILL of GOD, by self willed people who think they have a “FREE” Will working in them they are indeed a GOD unto themselves by this thinking, it makes them independent of GOD and His WILL. This thinking makes them (SELF) reliant not GOD reliant. This is a Hugh and important subject brother, it will help man to understand this. At least you do understand our Wills are influenced Will, that is a big Step IMO.
peace and love to you and yours………………gene
Quote (JustAskin @ July 06 2010,15:58) Gene, Those that are drawn chosen by the Father to be drawn to Jesus, are already 'Willing'. That is why they are chosen. Even Judas, even though he also had alterior motives, and this was foreknown by God that it should occur just as He had prophesied.
Did Jonah not run away using his own Will, his own desire, being in needless fear for his life, when God told him to preach to the Ninevens?
Did Satan not sin because of his own Will, his own desire, to be worshipped?
Did Abraham not give in to Sarah and conceive Ishmael, against God's promise?
More….plenty more…The point being:
If all 'WILL' is 'Influenced Will' then the common everyday use of the word, 'Will' is therefore understood to be 'Influenced Will'…therefore there is no need to state that 'Will' is 'Influenced Will'…except in Defining Terms.
So, let us agree that 'Will' means 'Influenced Will' for our everyday use.
And where it is for a deeper meaning then open it up and state 'inflienced Will'.Everything that is done, is done with other things in mind. Every action has purpose and a reaction.
Every action, every Actioned Will, Actioned Desire, is INFLUENCED by the calculated outcome of the purpose against the reaction and a final decision of that 'Councill', that 'Calculation' is the decisive act: Jonah feared for his life more than he feared the wroth of God; Abraham feared dying before asceeding to the promise of a son.
Yes, their 'Free Will' was influenced by external, fleshly desires that are not in accord with the 'influenced Will' of God.God was 'influenced' to punish Jonah for his lack of faith. God was 'influenced' to punish Abraham by sending away his firstborn son in disgrace, but relented, even, because He made a promise to Abraham that from his seed would come Kings, so even Ishael produced Kings, because God's WILL does not change. God's WILL, that which He purposes and Actions, never changes…but those Within the purpose and the action, might, but the outcome is as God Willed it…..for He says, 'These things must come to be, but woe to him from whom these things come to be'.
Therefore, there is choice…choice, else Jesus' death was for nothing.
Choice, choice to believe, or not, for God desires that we come to him of our own 'free influenced Will', our Free Will, Influenced by the desire to do right and shun bad, to love God, to want to worship him because we see that Only He Is Righteousness, and Truth, and Love.Yes, we have 'Free Will' but it is 'Influenced' by the desires of our own heart, to do the Will our own 'godlikeness' and not of 'The Godlyness'.
So do we agree on 'Will', that all 'Will is 'Influenced' but not having to state that it is 'Influenced'. That it is a 'given'?
Now, Move on.
JA: Wow! I was just re-read some of the latest posts and yours was excellent. Well written, direct to the point, awsome! IMO, God bless you, TKQuote (Gene Balthrop @ July 07 2010,21:53) Quote (JustAskin @ July 06 2010,15:58) Gene, Those that are drawn chosen by the Father to be drawn to Jesus, are already 'Willing'. That is why they are chosen. Even Judas, even though he also had alterior motives, and this was foreknown by God that it should occur just as He had prophesied.
Did Jonah not run away using his own Will, his own desire, being in needless fear for his life, when God told him to preach to the Ninevens?
Did Satan not sin because of his own Will, his own desire, to be worshipped?
Did Abraham not give in to Sarah and conceive Ishmael, against God's promise?
More….plenty more…The point being:
If all 'WILL' is 'Influenced Will' then the common everyday use of the word, 'Will' is therefore understood to be 'Influenced Will'…therefore there is no need to state that 'Will' is 'Influenced Will'…except in Defining Terms.
So, let us agree that 'Will' means 'Influenced Will' for our everyday use.
And where it is for a deeper meaning then open it up and state 'inflienced Will'.Everything that is done, is done with other things in mind. Every action has purpose and a reaction.
Every action, every Actioned Will, Actioned Desire, is INFLUENCED by the calculated outcome of the purpose against the reaction and a final decision of that 'Councill', that 'Calculation' is the decisive act: Jonah feared for his life more than he feared the wroth of God; Abraham feared dying before asceeding to the promise of a son.
Yes, their 'Free Will' was influenced by external, fleshly desires that are not in accord with the 'influenced Will' of God.God was 'influenced' to punish Jonah for his lack of faith. God was 'influenced' to punish Abraham by sending away his firstborn son in disgrace, but relented, even, because He made a promise to Abraham that from his seed would come Kings, so even Ishael produced Kings, because God's WILL does not change. God's WILL, that which He purposes and Actions, never changes…but those Within the purpose and the action, might, but the outcome is as God Willed it…..for He says, 'These things must come to be, but woe to him from whom these things come to be'.
Therefore, there is choice…choice, else Jesus' death was for nothing.
Choice, choice to believe, or not, for God desires that we come to him of our own 'free influenced Will', our Free Will, Influenced by the desire to do right and shun bad, to love God, to want to worship him because we see that Only He Is Righteousness, and Truth, and Love.Yes, we have 'Free Will' but it is 'Influenced' by the desires of our own heart, to do the Will our own 'godlikeness' and not of 'The Godlyness'.
So do we agree on 'Will', that all 'Will is 'Influenced' but not having to state that it is 'Influenced'. That it is a 'given'?
Now, Move on.
JA……….Re read what you have written you are indeed right to a point , you have accurately describe our will as (INFLUENCED) and that is right, But then later you add “FREE” to that WILL , can't you see that is contradictory to what you are saying . No where in scripture does it say we have a “FREE” Will operating (IN) us , we have liberty to exercise our captivated or influenced Wills. that my friend is a BIG difference.JA……….The reason i harp on this is because it is the very reason Adam and Eve and all of man kind have fallen away from God, by thinking they are a ” FREE” agent Having the right and power to “FREELY” Choses what ever they desire. This is the very focus of all sins it is this “FREE” of attachment to the WILL of GOD, by self willed people who think they have a “FREE” Will working in them they are indeed a GOD unto themselves by this thinking, it makes them independent of GOD and His WILL. This thinking makes them (SELF) reliant not GOD reliant. This is a Hugh and important subject brother, it will help man to understand this. At least you do understand our Wills are influenced Will, that is a big Step IMO.
peace and love to you and yours………………gene
this isnt a big step.this is callled common sense.
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