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Quote Spoken like a true Trinitarian – or one who would like us to believe that the Son OF God is the God he is the Son OF. It is only people whose doctrines aren't taught in the scriptures that say it won't make any sense to us until God's Spirit shows it to us. I rest my case.
And this is spoken by a person that wants to lean on his own understanding and be deceived by his own wits.
That is why they call it freedom of choice. The offer to be led by God's Spirit is to all, but some think they can do it better, just like Cain. It is your choice.
May God Bless you in your search.
I pray you find God's provided way.Marlin
Hi Marlin,
Come see the new thread. You made a comment about Devo's explanation of the Word, and so I hope you make a comment in that new thread.
Well, I haven't heard anyone try to refute the John 1:1 info yet, so I'll assume you all accept it.
So far, we've learned that 1:1c can grammatically be translated as:
1. God
2. a god
3. qualitatively god – as in “God created man male and female” or “God is not man that He should lie”.There are also some translations that say “and the Word was divine”, or “and the Word was god-like”. Those can be disregarded because the word “theos” in part c would have had to been written in the adjectival form for those translations to have any possibility of being grammatically correct. But it was not written in the adjectival form, so we can count those out as legit possibilities.
We've also ruled out #1, “God”, because of part b, “the Word was WITH God”.
Are we all together on this so far? Can anyone refute any of this so far? Do we all agree that John 1:1 speaks of TWO persons, one who was WITH the other?
Quote Do we all agree that John 1:1 speaks of TWO persons Mike, that is your interpretation.
JOHN 1:1 † In the beginning was the Word(LOGOS), and the Word(LOGOS) was with GOD, and the Word(LOGOS) was God.
You can try as you might, but change it you can't. My children hear my voice and another they will not follow.
In the beginning there was only God. God Spoke and the LOGOS came forth. What was this that God Spoke, God's own WORD spoken. God is ONE, there is no other God besides HIM.
I say it is spiritual discerned and you say it is because I have no bible to prove it.
The truth is here, can you receive it.
MATTHEW 16:17 † And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 † And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.His church is built upon revelation and revelation comes from the SPIRIT within. No man's brain can teach it only GOD can reveal to whom He pleases. And upon the rock of revelation He will build His church.
God Bless
MarlinMarlin,
Did you know that “Peter” MEANS “rock”? Do you know that Jesus is the one who gave Simon the name “Rock”? Isn't it more likely that Jesus said “You are Rock, and upon this Rock I will build my church”?
How do you know it was the revelation part that Jesus referred to? Did the spirit tell you that?
Marlin, did you even read the info from the 25 scholars who believe JESUS IS GOD? Even they know that the person of God cannot be WITH the person of God.
So, whoever or whatever the Word was, it couldn't possibly have been the person of God. The Trinitarian translations of 1:1c are flawed. Most people can't see this because their minds have been blinded by the god of this world. Are you one of them, Marlin?
Why do you suppose Jesus said “YOU ARE ROCK” to Peter in his sentence, Nick?
Was Peter unaware that he was Peter?
Marlin
this is an interpretation of the believe that Christ was born an man ,but the wording says Christ was Created at the time of his conception,but God stopped creating on the earth after he finish and rested on the seventh day,so God lied ??
why would John talk about Gods word (speaking) in John1;1
WHAT WAS SO IMPORTANT TO KNOW ABOUT HIS SPOOKING WORD DID NOT GOD MAKE IT CLEAR IN THE OLD TESTAMENT WHAT HIS WORDS WERE ? DID HE NOT SAY TO FOLLOW HIS WORDS WEN HE GIVE HIS SPOKEN WORD TO MOSES ?OR DO WE HAVE TO TROW IT IN TO THE FIRE PIT AND FORGET ITI hope not.
wen Christ came did he not came to fulfill the words of his father ? yes he did say that ,why now would John speak about the words of Moses ? we are not going backward but forward are we
the apostles have receive from Christ the knowledge that he came from above according to the spoken words of God his father that was written many century's earlier,this is the spiritual understanding of scriptures ,
this is also what Paul understood wen he ad written his letter to the ColossiansCol 1:10 And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
Col 1:11 being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience, and joyfully
Col 1:12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light.
Col 1:13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Col 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.
Col 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—
Col 1:23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.Now in ;Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
does any one has seen a WORD become flesh ?? as any one seen a WORD dwelling among men ?? as any one seen a WORD glory ?? ans then what it says ;what kind of glory was it that that WORD processed ?
and it is only ONE WORD that it is talked about and it came ; who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.;SO NOT ONLY WAS IT ONE WORD BUT THAT ONE WORD CAME FROM ABOVE AND IT COULD WALK FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH
Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ”
Jn 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Jn 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.Jn 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
Jn 1:30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’
Jn 1:31 I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.”
Jn 1:32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.
Jn 1:33 I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’
Jn 1:34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”NOW DID JOHN TALKS ABOUT A WORD ? OR DID HE TALKED ABOUT JESUS CHRIST “THE WORD OF GOD” ?
if you do please show us you scriptures that able you to understand it .
Pierre
Mike,
Quote Did you know that “Peter” MEANS “rock”? Do you know that Jesus is the one who gave Simon the name “Rock”? Isn't it more likely that Jesus said “You are Rock, and upon this Rock I will build my church”? Are you Catholic? That is what they teach, that Peter is the rock. The man a little while later Jesus says to him 'Get behind me Satan'.. He could really build His church on him, couldn't He.
How pagan Mike, if you truly believe that.
Let us break it down as you like to do. Take this part.
for flesh and blood hath not revealed it What does this mean to you Mike?Marlin
Hi M,
The same Peter told us we also are living stones[1Peter]
The building the stones are joined together to make is shown in Coll2.Quote
this is an interpretation of the believe that Christ was born an man ,but the wording says Christ was Created at the time of his conception,but God stopped creating on the earth after he finish and rested on the seventh day,so God lied ??why would John talk about Gods word (speaking) in John1;1
WHAT WAS SO IMPORTANT TO KNOW ABOUT HIS SPOOKING WORD DID NOT GOD MAKE IT CLEAR IN THE OLD TESTAMENT WHAT HIS WORDS WERE ? DID HE NOT SAY TO FOLLOW HIS WORDS WEN HE GIVE HIS SPOKEN WORD TO MOSES ?OR DO WE HAVE TO TROW IT IN TO THE FIRE PIT AND FORGET ITI hope not.
wen Christ came did he not came to fulfill the words of his father ? yes he did say that ,why now would John speak about the words of Moses ? we are not going backward but forward are we
the apostles have receive from Christ the knowledge that he came from above according to the spoken words of God his father that was written many century's earlier,this is the spiritual understanding of scriptures ,
this is also what Paul understood wen he ad written his letter to the ColossiansCol 1:10 And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
Col 1:11 being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience, and joyfully
Col 1:12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light.
Col 1:13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Col 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.
Col 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—
Col 1:23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.Now in ;Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
does any one has seen a WORD become flesh ?? as any one seen a WORD dwelling among men ?? as any one seen a WORD glory ?? ans then what it says ;what kind of glory was it that that WORD processed ?
and it is only ONE WORD that it is talked about and it came ; who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.;SO NOT ONLY WAS IT ONE WORD BUT THAT ONE WORD CAME FROM ABOVE AND IT COULD WALK FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH
Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ”
Jn 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Jn 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.Jn 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
Jn 1:30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’
Jn 1:31 I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.”
Jn 1:32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.
Jn 1:33 I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’
Jn 1:34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”NOW DID JOHN TALKS ABOUT A WORD ? OR DID HE TALKED ABOUT JESUS CHRIST “THE WORD OF GOD” ?
if you do please show us you scriptures that able you to understand it .
Pierre
Pierre, you might want to reread about the Word,(Logos), it was always God and it will always be God.
The scriptures you quoted are correct, your interpretation of them I do not understand. Maybe try doing just one point at a time. I will try to keep up.
Marlin
Marlin
Quote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 12 2012,18:36) Pierre, you might want to reread about the Word,(Logos), it was always God and it will always be God.
Interesting that the Word asks to be glorified alongside his God with the glory he had alongside his God before the world began.Do you see the word “ALONGSIDE God”? Can God Almighty be at the right hand of God Almighty, Marlin?
Quote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 12 2012,18:28) Let us break it down as you like to do. Take this part.
for flesh and blood hath not revealed it What does this mean to you Mike?Quote The man a little while later Jesus says to him 'Get behind me Satan'..
And a little while after that Jesus tells him three times “Feed my sheep”. Who else did he tell that to?Why ask? The answer is right there in the same verse. It means that Rock had the fact that Jesus was the awaited Christ revealed to him by his God in heaven.
Go on………………
II THESSALONIANS 2:11 † And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 † That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Marlin
Quote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 13 2012,18:36) Quote
this is an interpretation of the believe that Christ was born an man ,but the wording says Christ was Created at the time of his conception,but God stopped creating on the earth after he finish and rested on the seventh day,so God lied ??why would John talk about Gods word (speaking) in John1;1
WHAT WAS SO IMPORTANT TO KNOW ABOUT HIS SPOOKING WORD DID NOT GOD MAKE IT CLEAR IN THE OLD TESTAMENT WHAT HIS WORDS WERE ? DID HE NOT SAY TO FOLLOW HIS WORDS WEN HE GIVE HIS SPOKEN WORD TO MOSES ?OR DO WE HAVE TO TROW IT IN TO THE FIRE PIT AND FORGET ITI hope not.
wen Christ came did he not came to fulfill the words of his father ? yes he did say that ,why now would John speak about the words of Moses ? we are not going backward but forward are we
the apostles have receive from Christ the knowledge that he came from above according to the spoken words of God his father that was written many century's earlier,this is the spiritual understanding of scriptures ,
this is also what Paul understood wen he ad written his letter to the ColossiansCol 1:10 And we pray this in order that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God,
Col 1:11 being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience, and joyfully
Col 1:12 giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of the saints in the kingdom of light.
Col 1:13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves,
Col 1:14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Col 1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Col 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.
Col 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—
Col 1:23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.Now in ;Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
does any one has seen a WORD become flesh ?? as any one seen a WORD dwelling among men ?? as any one seen a WORD glory ?? ans then what it says ;what kind of glory was it that that WORD processed ?
and it is only ONE WORD that it is talked about and it came ; who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.;SO NOT ONLY WAS IT ONE WORD BUT THAT ONE WORD CAME FROM ABOVE AND IT COULD WALK FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH
Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, “This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ ”
Jn 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Jn 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.Jn 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
Jn 1:30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’
Jn 1:31 I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.”
Jn 1:32 Then John gave this testimony: “I saw the Spirit come down from heaven as a dove and remain on him.
Jn 1:33 I would not have known him, except that the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit.’
Jn 1:34 I have seen and I testify that this is the Son of God.”NOW DID JOHN TALKS ABOUT A WORD ? OR DID HE TALKED ABOUT JESUS CHRIST “THE WORD OF GOD” ?
if you do please show us you scriptures that able you to understand it .
Pierre
Pierre, you might want to reread about the Word,(Logos), it was always God and it will always be God.
The scriptures you quoted are correct, your interpretation of them I do not understand. Maybe try doing just one point at a time. I will try to keep up.
Marlin
Marlin
Marlinwhy do you give me your opinion ??
please give me inside ;answer my questions ;so I can see and ear and be saved ,
no opinion as ever saved anyone ;
I have given my understanding ,and have NOT changed any scriptures in my presentation right ?
so please do the same for me
Pierre
Quote (Marlin1 @ Feb. 13 2012,20:13) II THESSALONIANS 2:11 † And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 † That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Marlin
Marlin1do you really think that I have no pleasure in the truth of God or that I do not believe in Gods as the only truth there is and that I spend my time in pleasure in unrighteousness.
what make you believe this of me???
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 13 2012,01:21) Well, I haven't heard anyone try to refute the John 1:1 info yet, so I'll assume you all accept it. So far, we've learned that 1:1c can grammatically be translated as:
1. God
2. a god
3. qualitatively god – as in “God created man male and female” or “God is not man that He should lie”.There are also some translations that say “and the Word was divine”, or “and the Word was god-like”. Those can be disregarded because the word “theos” in part c would have had to been written in the adjectival form for those translations to have any possibility of being grammatically correct. But it was not written in the adjectival form, so we can count those out as legit possibilities.
We've also ruled out #1, “God”, because of part b, “the Word was WITH God”.
Are we all together on this so far? Can anyone refute any of this so far? Do we all agree that John 1:1 speaks of TWO persons, one who was WITH the other?
Hi Mike, YES, I CAN!Isaiah 44:8 disqualifies your choice numbered #2 as a viable choice.
“Is there ‘a god’ beside me?
yea, THERE IS NO GOD;
I know not any.”Your rudimentary logic CANNOT override Scripture; what makes YOU 'think' it can??
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 13 2012,04:19) Hi MB,
Search the scriptures for your answers.
Don't expect us to accept your logic must be correct
Hi Nick, you are right!I have shown Mike where his logic collapses (my previous post),
but nevertheless he refuses to let Scripture explain Scripture.Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org
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