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Jodi Lee said:
Quote As soon as Jesus began teaching, his lesson was to bring people into the knowledge of the New Covenant. Jodi,
Jesus only hinted at God's new covenant. Most of His teachings were old covenant. Hebrews 6:1-3 says that we are to LEAVE the “elementary doctrines of Christ.”” Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.”
Please note the following list of old covenant teachings:
1. repentance
2. Faith toward God
3. baptisms
4. laying on of hands
5. resurrection of the dead.
6. eternal judgmentAll in the list above are old covenant teachings and we are commanded to LEAVE them. Most Christ's teachings are not for today. It is not required that we believe anything in the list of Hebrews 6:2 including faith toward God.
It CLEARLY says that we are apostates if we continue in these things.
“4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.”
It says that those who have tasted of the powers of the age to come (the new covenant age) that if they should fall away (apostasize), it is impossible to renew them again to repentance.
SO FAITH TOWARD GOD IN ITS NEW COVENANT CONTENT IS FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST! You may continue in the “elementary doctrines of Christ” is you want. But I am going to move on “toward perfection” as commanded. But if you remain in those things you are “crucifying the Son of God afresh!”
GOD HAD MADE JESUS CHRIST TO BE THE OBJECT OF FAITH IN THE NEW COVENANT AND I WILL NOT DRAW BACK UNTO PERDITION AND DAMNATION AS YOU HAVE!
Furthermore, I will not spit in Christ's face. Jesus Himself said that when He would be exalted it would be His privilege to reveal the Father to whomsoever He wills.
“All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”
It is the Son who revealed the Father to me and I will not allow your apostate treatment of Jesus stop me from loving Him. Paul himself said that our faith comes FROM Christ:
“16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified”
Paul clearly said that we are justified by the “faith of Christ.” The noun case here is the genetive of origin which means “faith FROM Christ.” We weare justified by the faith whch COMES FROM CHRIST. Hebrews also says that Christ is the SOURCE and PERFECTER of our faith.
2}looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.” Heb. 12:2
There it is! We are told to look to Jesus who is the “author and finisher” of our faith. But you want us to keep looking to the old covenant God. NO THANKS! You fail to see that the apostles wanted to move them AWAY from the faith Moses commanded.
Jesus did not expound the new covenant fully.That was the work of the apostles. We are not required today to adhere to those teachings of Christ that are listed in Hebrews 6:2. Among those is “faith toward God” (in its old covenant content).
The apostle John clearly wanted Christians to believe in the Son of God and have confidence toward Him.
” 13These things I have written unto you that believe in the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe in the name of the Son of God.
14And this is the confidence that we have in Him: that if we ask anything according to His will, He heareth us.
15And if we know that He hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of Him.”If you do not believe in the Son of God and put your confidence IN HIM by making your petitions known TO HIM then you are still under the old covenant.
Jesus Christ is in the least God representatively in the new covenant age. He may reveal the Father to whomsoever HE WILLS and He will grant your requests if they are according to HIS WILL.
thinker
Jodi Lee said:
Quote Once again are you saying this is a lie, or we are suppose to believe that to some people the Father is the God of Jesus but to others He is not the God of Jesus? I have said over and over again that the Father is the God of Jesus but NOT the Lord of Jesus. Jesus Himself is the King of kings and Lord of lords.” Moreover, He is the ONLY King of kings and Lord of lords.” He has no Lord over Him.
thinker
Jodi Lee said:
Quote Philippians 2:9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. You Arians love to omit what is said of Jesus before verse 9. Here it is:
5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus,
6who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God,
7but made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.
8And being found in the fashion of a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death–even the death of the cross.
9Therefore God also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name,Why do you incessantly ignore that He pre-existed in the form of God and took upon Himself the form of a servant?
Jesus Christ ACTED UPON HIMSELF by taking the form of a servant. Then the Father ACTED UPON Jesus by exalting Him. So take it back ALL the way TO THE BEGINNING when Christ humbled Himself..
This is the chief difference between you and me. You start with vers 9 and I start with verse 5. You start with what God did for Jesus. I start with what Jesus did for us. You speak half truths and I speak the WHOLE truth. Half truths are falsehoods!
You are correct that Jesus is to be confessed as “Lord” to the glory of God the Father. So if you don't confess Him as YOUR Lord then you do not glorify God the Father. Right?
Btw, the confession of Jesus Christ as “Lord” is the fulfillment of Isaiah 45 when every tongue confesses YHWH! So the Greek “kurios” (Lord) in reference to Jesus Christ means that He is YHWH!
thinker
Jodi Lee said:
Quote John 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.' “ The Father is Christ's God but not His Lord. Jesus Christ Himself is the ONLY King of kings and Lord of lords.
thinker
Quote (Gene @ Jan. 06 2010,08:31) Thinker …….If you had one tenth of Jodi's understanding you would be repenting in dust and ashes by now. IMO Your teachings are Idolatrous and deny the ONE and (ONLY) TRUE GOD. Dump the TRINITY GARBAGE and the LIGHT might come on and the day star down in your heart thinker, as long as you walk in the false teachings of the TRINITY you are walking in darkness. IMO
Gene,The new testament is clear that we are to believe in the name of the Son of God. This is repeated many places in the new testament. THIS IS THE GOSPEL ! If you believe in God according to Moses' teachings and Christ's “elementary teachings” then you are an apostate from the gospel.
You say that I am an idolater. Then I am in good company for the apostles called us to faith IN CHRIST.
3 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life] and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.
This CLEARLY says that we are to believe in the name of the Son of God and to put our confidence IN HIM. It says that this confidence will be expressed by our petitioning Him. It says that if our petitions are acccording to HIS WILL He hears us will give us what we ask. Looks like the apostle John is an idolater Gene.
Explain Hebrews 6:1-2. It says that we are to LEAVE the “elementary doctrines of Christ.” Faith in God in its old covenant content is to be abandoned. Faith in God under the new coveanant is faith in Christ.
thinker
peace2all said:
Quote god almighty yhwh alone is the source of all. Amen! Since Christ is the source of salvation then He is God:
“And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,
Jesus Christ is our God and Savior (Titus 2:13).
Amen!
thinker
thinker……….Again you advance Jesus in the Place of GOD, that is what idolatry is. Jesus pr any of the apostles NEVER did that , Just you TRINITARIANS do that. That is the apostate religion that Jesus will destory at his return as said in 2 Ths 2. read it that should cause you great concern thinker.
GENE
no don't say about TT we don't agree he will fight it to the end i asume so do we ,so only God will make us seen wich one of us as his truth and wisdom,
this is between us because we are well established in the truth of the scriptures ,and know who we worship as God and as Son ,so leave it at that.
what you think Gene ??
Quote (Gene @ Jan. 06 2010,11:54) thinker……….Again you advance Jesus in the Place of GOD, that is what idolatry is. Jesus pr any of the apostles NEVER did that , Just you TRINITARIANS do that. That is the apostate religion that Jesus will destory at his return as said in 2 Ths 2. read it that should cause you great concern thinker.
Gene,Again the apostle John said:
1 John 5:13-15 (New King James Version)
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.15 And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him.
When are you going to get around to answering this Gene? The apostle John was CLEARLY trying to move them away from old covenant faith in God to new covenant faith in God. New Covenant faith in God is faith in Jesus Christ. We should even pay to Him. No more acccusations please! Just deal with these scriptures!
While you're at it deal with the scriptures which say that it is Jesus Christ who gives faith:
“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.” Galatians 2:16
The noun case is the genetive of origin meaning that justifying faith comes FROM Jesus Christ. Paul meant that we are justified by the faith which Christ gave us.
and,
“All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.” Matthew 11:27
It is the Son who reveals the Father to whomsoever He wills. This means that He is SOVEREIGN and that faith comes FROM HIM.
If you don't answer these scriptures specifically you are just spouting off.
Jesus Christ is God to us in this dispensation. The Father Himself said so:
“But to the Son He says:
“ Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.” Hebrews 1:8So quit your yakking and accusing and just give an intelligent reply to these scriptures.
GET OUT OF THE OLD COVENANT GENE!
thinker
thinker………Don't even know where to begin with you have so much error in you thinking. To think Jesus came to replace GOD is sure folly. Jesus' whole ministry was about having a right relationship with the ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD, and that GOD was (NOT) him. Jesus even said He came and disclosed GOD to us all. There is not ONE scripture that says Jesus said He was a GOD. Believing it the name of Jesus does (NOT) make Him a GOD, thinker no more than if you believed in anyone name would make that person a GOD, to think that is sure nonsense.
Faith of Jesus ……….Faith of Jesus is not the same as Faith (IN) Jesus. The FAITH of JESUS it the SAME FAITH (HE HAD), in GOD and that same FAITH is what saves Us, it (faith (OF) Jesus) is the saving FAITH. I can't believe you don't even understand that.
all thing delivered unto me of my FATHER …………WE are also told this (excludes GOD himself). 1 Co 15:27…> For he hat put all things under his feet. (BUT) when he says all things are put under him it is manifest that he is excepted , which did put all things under him.
Thinker is that manifested that he (GOD) is (EXCEPTED) to YOU. if it is then why speak such foolishness. Jesus (IS) and always will be subject to GOD the FATHER. Now and for ever. And you new and old covenant trick does not fly because the same GOD of the OLD Testament is the Same GOD of the New Testament as WELL. To try to create another GOD is IDOLATRY thinker. “YOU SHALL HAVE (NO) OTHER GOD BESIDES ME”, that has never changed thinker. DUMP THE TRINITARIAN GARBAGE THINKER, IT WON'T FLY.
What i see as a problem with you is taking small snap shots out of scriptural context, it's like not seeing the forest because of the trees. Maybe if you would stand back and put the scriptures in context and not just zero in on just a specific words alone. You TRINITARIANS get all caught up in a specific word to the exclusions of the rest of them and then start making inferences that are not there. IMO
Quote (Gene @ Jan. 06 2010,11:54) thinker……….Again you advance Jesus in the Place of GOD, that is what idolatry is. Jesus pr any of the apostles NEVER did that , Just you TRINITARIANS do that. That is the apostate religion that Jesus will destory at his return as said in 2 Ths 2. read it that should cause you great concern thinker.
Gene,Why won't you answer the scriptures I give. You say that I advance Jesus “in place of” God because you deny Jesus is God.
Explain Paul's stsatement:
“I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.” Galatians 2:20
This is clear dude! Paul lived his life by faith IN the Son of God. By your logic Paul was an idolater.
Hebrews 6:1-2 CLEARLY says that we are to LEAVE the “elementary doctrines of Christ.” The “elementary doctrines” are then listed with “faith toward God” being included in the list. Therefore, we are to leave the principle of faith toward God in its old covenant content. Faith toward God in its new covenant content is faith in the Son of God. If you do not have faith in the Son of God, then the Father is NOT your God!
” Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.”
Get with the program Gene!
thinker
Thinker……..Who's saying not to believe in Christ, what i said believing in Him (DOES NOT MAKE HIM A GOD), that is the question here not believing in him as the Anointed of GOD, You trinitarians have replaced the ONE and (ONLY) GOD with another GOD. that's the POINT here, not believing in Jesus. Stay with the issue , while Jesus sits at the right hand of GOD (DOES NOT MAKE HIM A GOD). THAT IS STILL THE POINT. When you preach Jesus as GOD himself you are committing IDOLATRY. GOD The FATHER is the same GOD of both the new and the old testament also. Also the leaving the “elementary doctrines (OF) Christ, (means about Christ)” You have not done that you instead make HIM into very GOD HIMSELF. I think you need to get with the program thinker.
Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 06 2010,11:25) Jodi Lee said: Quote Philippians 2:9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. You Arians love to omit what is said of Jesus before verse 9. Here it is:
5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus,
6who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God,
7but made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.
8And being found in the fashion of a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death–even the death of the cross.
9Therefore God also hath highly exalted Him, and given Him a name which is above every name,Why do you incessantly ignore that He pre-existed in the form of God and took upon Himself the form of a servant?
Jesus Christ ACTED UPON HIMSELF by taking the form of a servant. Then the Father ACTED UPON Jesus by exalting Him. So take it back ALL the way TO THE BEGINNING when Christ humbled Himself..
This is the chief difference between you and me. You start with vers 9 and I start with verse 5. You start with what God did for Jesus. I start with what Jesus did for us. You speak half truths and I speak the WHOLE truth. Half truths are falsehoods!
You are correct that Jesus is to be confessed as “Lord” to the glory of God the Father. So if you don't confess Him as YOUR Lord then you do not glorify God the Father. Right?
Btw, the confession of Jesus Christ as “Lord” is the fulfillment of Isaiah 45 when every tongue confesses YHWH! So the Greek “kurios” (Lord) in reference to Jesus Christ means that He is YHWH!
thinker
Are you saying that you believe some Spirit Son decided to come to earth acting upon himself and become a servant?That is clearly against scripture,
John 8:42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.
John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
Not only did Jesus not send himself, but what was SENT was in fact the PROMISED Christ, not a pre-existent being was sent to become Christ, but the person who YHVH promised He would send Jesus Christ was sent.
I do not ignore such scriptures as in the beginning of Philippians 2, on the contrary my heart and mind delight in them!!
Philippians 2 should be understood through what is shown to us throughout the bible. Through YHVH comes all power and wisdom. He makes kings great, however kings often don't give YHVH credit but instead give credit to themselves being puffed up.
Exodus 31:3 And I have filled him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,
Daniel 2:20 Daniel answered and said: “Blessed be the name of God forever and ever, For wisdom and might are His. 21 And He changes the times and the seasons; He removes kings and raises up kings; He gives wisdom to the wise And knowledge to those who have understanding.
Job 12:23 He makes nations great, and destroys them; He enlarges nations, and guides them. 24 He takes away the understanding of the chiefs of the people of the earth, And makes them wander in a pathless wilderness.
Psalm 75:6 For exaltation comes neither from the east Nor from the west nor from the south. 7 But God is the Judge: He puts down one, And exalts another. 8 For in the hand of the Lord there is a cup, And the wine is red; It is fully mixed, and He pours it out; Surely its dregs shall all the wicked of the earth Drain and drink down.
Pr 29:23 A man's pride shall bring him low: but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit.
Mt 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Ezekiel 28:1 The word of the Lord came to me again, saying, 2 “Son of man, say to the prince of Tyre, 'Thus says the Lord God: “Because your heart is lifted up, And you say, 'I am a god, I sit in the seat of gods, In the midst of the seas,' Yet you are a man, and not a god, Though you set your heart as the heart of a god 3 (Behold, you are wiser than Daniel! There is no secret that can be hidden from you! 4 With your wisdom and your understanding You have gained riches for yourself, And gathered gold and silver into your treasuries; 5 By your great wisdom in trade you have increased your riches, And your heart is lifted up because of your riches),” 6 'Therefore thus says the Lord God: “Because you have set your heart as the heart of a god, 7 Behold, therefore, I will bring strangers against you, The most terrible of the nations; And they shall draw their swords against the beauty of your wisdom, And defile your splendor.
Luke 2:40 And the Child grew and became strong in spirit, filled with wisdom; and the grace of God was upon Him.
Luke 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.
John 8:28 Then Jesus said to them, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself; but as My Father taught Me, I speak these things.
John 5:19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.
John 5:30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.
Acts 10:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.
We see a pattern in the OT of men who are full of pride, not acknowledging the gifts of YHVH. The King of TYRE who received power and wisdom from YHVH gave all the credit to himself, even calling himself a god.
The POWER that was bestowed upon Jesus by the Father through the Father’s Spirit, was unlike anything that had ever been given to man. Through these powers that were GIVEN to Jesus by the Father for the purpose of carrying out the Father’s Will, Jesus CAME in the FORM of God. Though in that form he was seen as equal having the same powers of His Father, no pride was found in him, rather he was humble, and never used the powers given to him for his own gain, but used them to serve the Father and all of mankind.
Let's get this strait, Jesus was born a human being of the seed of David. He was not said to be in the likeness of man, meaning that he only appeared as a man but was truly something else. We know from many, many clear scriptures that our Christ came to us in the flesh as a human being, to say otherwise is to be of the antichrist. So we should keep that in mind when reading Philippians 2.
Philippians 2 is talking about the
great MIND SET that Jesus had even though he came in the form of God. Jesus must have been pretty taken back with the powers of the Holy Spirit, and no doubt the fact that even though he felt like God, his appearance as a man, FOR he WAS a MAN and IS a MAN, helped keep him humble. He was not a fool like the King of Tyre who had less wisdom and only human power and managed to declare himself a god.Though Jesus was in the form of God, he did not act like a god but instead he acted in the likeness of men being a bondservant.
Jesus was given the powers of the Father, but he did not use those powers for himself, instead he was a servant.Philippians 2:1 Therefore if there is any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and mercy, 2 fulfill my joy by being like-minded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. 3 Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. 4 Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father
We bow to Jesus for with all he was GIVEN by the Father, he did not use it for his own gain, he did not become puffed up in pride like so many other men, instead he was a servant unto us, even to his own death. Because of THIS, not because Jesus pre-existed in some form, but because of what he accomplished as a man through the Spirit of the Father, he was EXALTED.
Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 06 2010,10:59) Jodi Lee said: Quote As soon as Jesus began teaching, his lesson was to bring people into the knowledge of the New Covenant. Jodi,
Jesus only hinted at God's new covenant. Most of His teachings were old covenant. Hebrews 6:1-3 says that we are to LEAVE the “elementary doctrines of Christ.”” Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.”
Please note the following list of old covenant teachings:
1. repentance
2. Faith toward God
3. baptisms
4. laying on of hands
5. resurrection of the dead.
6. eternal judgmentAll in the list above are old covenant teachings and we are commanded to LEAVE them. Most Christ's teachings are not for today. It is not required that we believe anything in the list of Hebrews 6:2 including faith toward God.
It CLEARLY says that we are apostates if we continue in these things.
“4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.”
It says that those who have tasted of the powers of the age to come (the new covenant age) that if they should fall away (apostasize), it is impossible to renew them again to repentance.
SO FAITH TOWARD GOD IN ITS NEW COVENANT CONTENT IS FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST! You may continue in the “elementary doctrines of Christ” is you want. But I am going to move on “toward perfection” as commanded. But if you remain in those things you are “crucifying the Son of God afresh!”
GOD HAD MADE JESUS CHRIST TO BE THE OBJECT OF FAITH IN THE NEW COVENANT AND I WILL NOT DRAW BACK UNTO PERDITION AND DAMNATION AS YOU HAVE!
Furthermore, I will not spit in Christ's face. Jesus Himself said that when He would be exalted it would be His privilege to reveal the Father to whomsoever He wills.
“All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”
It is the Son who revealed the Father to me and I will not allow your apostate treatment of Jesus stop me from loving Him. Paul himself said that our faith comes FROM Christ:
“16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified”
Paul clearly said that we are justified by the “faith of Christ.” The noun case here is the genetive of origin which means “faith FROM Christ.” We weare justified by the faith whch COMES FROM CHRIST. Hebrews also says that Christ is the SOURCE and PERFECTER of our faith.
2}looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.” Heb. 12:2
There it is! We are told to look to Jesus who is the “author and finisher” of our faith. But you want us to keep looking to the old covenant God. NO THANKS! You fail to see that the apostles wanted to move them AWAY from the faith Moses commanded.
Jesus did not expound the new covenant fully.That was the work of the apostles. We are not required today to adhere to those teachings of Christ that are listed in Hebrews 6:2. Among those is “faith toward God” (in its old covenant content).
The apostle John clearly wanted Christians to believe in the Son of God and have confidence toward Him.
” 13These things I have written unto you that believe in the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe in the name of the Son of God.
14And this is the confidence that we have in Him: that if we ask anything according to His will, He heareth us.
15And if we know that He hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of Him.”If you do not believe in the Son of God and put your confidence IN HIM by making your petitions known TO HIM then you are still under the old covenant.
Jesus Christ is in the least God representatively in the new covenant age. He may reveal the Father to whomsoever HE WILLS and He will grant your requests if they are according to HIS WILL.
thinker
I really don’t know how to respond to you Thinker, I feel like I need to present the whole bible to you because I feel you have no understanding.Our Heavenly Father does not change from being our One True God, and the fact that He planned for us eternal life through the man Jesus of whom He MADE for us to be a Master and the Christ, certainly does NOT change either.
John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
THESE WORDS NEVER BECOME OBSOLETE! They are a foundation of truth that should be at the forefront of the mind while reading all other scriptures.
Our faith is to be in the scriptures that declare to us that Jesus was indeed the man whom the Father promised He would send. We are to have Faith, trusting that Jesus is in fact our Mediator, the man who reconciled us back to the Father.
I truly have no interest in debating anything with you if you cannot keep to these unchanging truths.
You have no clue as to WHY we have Faith in Jesus. Scripture never declares we are to have Faith in him as the One True God, but Faith in the fact that he is the MAN who died for us and that he is the man who was raised from the dead, giving us hope and faith that our Heavenly Father will also raise us from the dead. This is the Gospel the light and the truth.
This is a statement by Jesus that applies to ALL men throughout ALL of time.
THESE WORDS DO NOT BECOME OBSOLETE!
John 4:23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” 25 The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.” 26 Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He.”
THESE WORDS DO NOT BECOME OBSOLETE!
Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested , being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteo
usness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned , and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past , through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.Galatians 2:19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”
Righteousness comes through the belief that a man died for our sins and was raised from the dead. Righteousness comes through belief that the Father fulfilled His promise to David in that He would not allow His Holy One to see corruption. If we belief in Jesus Christ we believe that he was that Holy One, born of the seed of David and raised of the seed of David!
1 Peter 1:17 And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; 18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
Matthew 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. 29 But I say to you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in My Father's kingdom.”
1 Corinthians 11:26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till He comes.
The FAITH we are to have in Jesus is in his HUMAN BLOOD that was shed for us.
The New Covenant is not about believing that Jesus is the One True God, but about believing that we have remission of sins through his death on the cross.
You teach PURE ANTICHRIST BABBLE, that our Faith in Jesus is to be in him as our One True God. Such is a PURE LIE. You do not believe in the anointed one you believe in a FASLE gOD.
2 Corinthians 13:4 For though He was crucified in weakness, yet He lives by the power of God. For we also are weak in Him, but we shall live with Him by the power of God toward you.
Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
We have faith that Jesus is truly the Christ, that he IS truly the ANOINTED. He exists today living through the power of his God and our God, and he had the courage to die for us through the power of his God and our God.
All is pure delusional thinking IMO to believe that any of these scriptures are OBSOLETE.
Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 06 2010,11:10) Jodi Lee said: Quote Once again are you saying this is a lie, or we are suppose to believe that to some people the Father is the God of Jesus but to others He is not the God of Jesus? I have said over and over again that the Father is the God of Jesus but NOT the Lord of Jesus. Jesus Himself is the King of kings and Lord of lords.” Moreover, He is the ONLY King of kings and Lord of lords.” He has no Lord over Him.
thinker
Jesus is the human Master over all of creation, and he was APPOINTED as such to establish the Father's kingdom, carrying out the Father's Will. Before time began the Father promised eternal salvation, Jesus is STILL the SERVANT of the Father for he has not yet fulfilled all of the Father's promises.Jesus will fight until he has destroyed the last enemy which is death. He is doing such because it is the plan of the Father's. This makes Jesus STILL a SERVANT to his Father, thus Jesus does in fact have a Master.
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Jan. 07 2010,10:19) Quote (thethinker @ Jan. 06 2010,11:10) Jodi Lee said: Quote Once again are you saying this is a lie, or we are suppose to believe that to some people the Father is the God of Jesus but to others He is not the God of Jesus? I have said over and over again that the Father is the God of Jesus but NOT the Lord of Jesus. Jesus Himself is the King of kings and Lord of lords.” Moreover, He is the ONLY King of kings and Lord of lords.” He has no Lord over Him.
thinker
Jesus is the human Master over all of creation, and he was APPOINTED as such to establish the Father's kingdom, carrying out the Father's Will. Before time began the Father promised eternal salvation, Jesus is STILL the SERVANT of the Father for he has not yet fulfilled all of the Father's promises.Jesus will fight until he has destroyed the last enemy which is death. He is doing such because it is the plan of the Father's. This makes Jesus STILL a SERVANT to his Father, thus Jesus does in fact have a Master.
genesis 18 says that abraham saw god and talked to him.exodus 24 – moses ,aaron and elders saw the god of isreal
isaiah 6 – isaiah sees god
isaiah 9:5,6 – jesus is called, mighty god,everlasting father,prince of peace. divinity acclaims?
apostles call him God and they are not corrected, they worship him and are not corrected. claims not to be god but states things that give him divinity.
he was called christ the living god, for his nature and word and works were of god.
jesus talks about himself as to not make him a flesh being to be worshiped as god even though he is the visible copy of the invisible god, same nature , words & spirit in unity with god.
never denies the blasphemy charges but only reassured them by his responses that he was giving himself divinty.
read the scriptures plain unbias and you cannot come up with anything besides what it says.
god in complex in unity this is a fact. the invisible god – the source of all has not been seen and is to be only worshiped as GOD however don't stuff him in a nice box for your understanding for there is no way we can ever undersatnd him ,no limit his ways to use himself to communicate or show his unity.
one worships only one god not three, jesus's human form is not worshiped as god, only the invisible god is the source of all.
nowhere is genesis does it mention jesus.
only god and the holy spirit are making the heavens and earth.
JOHN 20:28,29
AND THOMAS ANSWERED AND SAID UNTO HIM, MY LORD AND MY GOD.JESUS SAITH UNTO HIM, THOMAS BECASUE THOU HAST SEEN ME, THOU HASTBELIEVED, BLESSED ARE THEY THAT HAVE NOT SEEN, AND BELIEVED.
truely the father & son are in unity of nature,words and spirit.
god loving us so much, made himself a man yet still being in heaven , the visible copy of his nature and words and works and spirit. through him we have everlasting life only. god is the only way that anythig and everything is and will be.
Hi P2a,
God is not a mere man but Jesus was.
God does not die but Jesus did.Jesus was in unity with God.
God filled Him with His own Holy Spirit.
God was in him reconciling the world to himself.These things are written so best not to wander off into foolish speculations.
The following is part of an interesting view of God.
THE ONLY TRUE GOD
WE BELIEVE that, ultimately speaking, “there is no other God except One” (1 Cor.8:4b). That One, is “the Father, out of Whom all is” (1 Cor.8:6). He alone is the Supreme (Lam.3:38; Dan.4:17); He alone is the Almighty (2 Cor.6:18; Rev.16:14).
In Hebrew, “Yahweh” is God’s name; “Elohim” is (the most common form of) God’s title. The divine name speaks of the One Who is, was, and is coming (Rev.1:8); the divine title speaks of the One Who places or subjects, “according as He is intending” (1 Cor.12:11b; cf “Yet now God [lit., “the Placer”] placed the members, each one of them, in the body according as He wills,” 1 Cor.12:18; cp 1 Cor.12:27b). Therefore, when we say “Yahweh,” we should think: “the One Who is, was, and is coming”; and, when we say “Elohim” or “God,” we should think: “the Placer” or “the Subjector.”
It is important to recognize that “GOD” is not a personal name, an expression by which one is known, but is a title, added to a personal name, indicative of one’s office. A name speaks of that which one is called; a title speaks of that which one does, the capacity in which one serves.
While the title “GOD,” when used relatively, can be used in reference to many beings, when it is used absolutely, it is only used in reference to one Being, God Himself. When this title, “GOD” (or “ELOHIM”) is used of the One Whose name is Yahweh, the One Who is All-Sufficient, Who is the Supreme, the Almighty, of the One Who is the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the only true God, or otherwise of the One, so termed, Who is spoken of in contrast to or as distinct from Christ, it is evident that it is used in its absolute sense.
The title “GOD” (or “ELOHIM”), then, neither signifies nor entails either supremacy or unoriginatedness of being. Nor is it a term indicative of the essential nature of the being so designated. It is certainly true when this title is used in reference to the only true God, that it refers to One Who is supreme and unoriginated, and Whose essential nature is distinct from other beings. But the fact that these things are true of the One Who is the only true God, is no indication that any of these things are true of the word “GOD,” itself, or of any other beings to whom this same word (“GOD”) refers, when used in a relative sense.
It is deeply mistaken, then, to reason that since the word “GOD” is sometimes used in reference to Christ, men, or messengers, that therefore either Christ, men, or messengers, are unoriginated, supreme, or of the same essential nature as the Almighty.
The word “God” (or “god”), like all titles, concerns itself with office or service. In Greek, its stem, the- signifies PLACE; hence, the complete form, theos (GOD), means PLACer. This idea fits all the contexts in which theos is used. Theos is not only the original Greek word for the English “GOD,” but is also the inspired translation of the Hebrew “ELOHIM,” in all corresponding New Testament citations of Old Testament texts which refer to God Himself.
Any references to those lesser beings to whom the title GOD (“placer” or “subjector”) also applies notwithstanding, then, we say, Nevertheless, there is only one God. He alone is the Supreme, the Almighty One. He is the God, and Father, of our Lord Jesus Christ, and He is “the only true God” (John 17:3).
It is Christ Himself Who insists that this is so. The adjective alêthês (TRUE) speaks of “[that which is] in accord with the facts.” 1 In accord with the actual, literal facts, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ alone is God. He is the only Placer Who is not Himself placed by another. He alone is self-existent and self-sufficient. All others to whom this title is ascribed, including Christ, possess it in a derived sense, not in accord with the facts absolute, but relatively speaking, or, in some figurative way.
Supremely speaking, there is only one true God, even though, speaking relatively, and even in a righteous sense, “there are many gods” (1 Cor.8:5). For, indeed, “there are those being termed gods, whether in heaven or on earth” (1 Cor.8:5; cp Ex.22:8,9; Psa.82:6). Consequently, we should hardly be surprised that, in certain passages, Christ also is so termed (cf Titus 2:13; Heb.1:8; 1 John 5:20b). Except for God Himself, Christ certainly has a right to this title in a way unspeakably above that of all others, to whom it is also properly applied. Yet conversely, we must also realize that the ascription of the title “God” to Christ–in certain senses and in various connections–is no more indication that He is the Deity than that any others to whom this title is also ascribed are the Deity.Blessings.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 07 2010,11:36) Hi P2a,
God is not a mere man but Jesus was.
God does not die but Jesus did.Jesus was in unity with God.
God filled Him with His own Holy Spirit.
God was in him reconciling the world to himself.These things are written so best not to wander off into foolish speculations.
i show scriptures not foolishness.jesus was not a mere man.
he was not made from dust of earth as we are.
your right jesus was in unity in word,nature and sprirt with god.
the symbolic flesh form of man died.
how do i speculate plain reading of text with no pre despostion to them.
one cannot just ignore scriptures they do not like.
this unity is more than our understanding of a father and son.
that is just to man as illistration.
jesus was the visible copy of the invisible god, the nature of god the word of god the works or god and even titles to god are used and given and shown to man from jesus.
to say he is so different in all and a completely seperate being is every sense is not true.
the unity of god is very complex.
like i said he would either have to be also a god that has no powers or will or words of his own, but then you cannot take away his divinity either.
or he is in total unity with god in all ways, as to be a way for god to have shown man himself in form of words and works from having a son be born of vigin of his spirit seed of his nature . a son as were mere humans can see and relate too with our limited minds that he is the son of God.
of god. he is of god. christ the living god.
scriptures say that no man has seen god yet it also says people have.
also the apostles worshiped and called jesus GOD.
jesus did not correct them. are they blasphemers for doing so or is it idolitery then on their part?
no if it is true. god is complex in unity.
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