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WJ………..That was the (SPIRIT) Speaking Not Jesus, it was GOD SPEAKING. “WHO SO EVER HAS EARS TO HEAR LET HIM HEAR WHAT THE (SPIRIT) IS SAYING UNTO THE CHURCHES”. It WAS GOD the FATHER giving the REVELATIONS to JOHN , Jesus and the angles were simply relaying it to HIM, and he in turn relayed it unto the churches, but it originated from the GOD the FATHER, Not Jesus or any angles.
peace and love……………….gene
WJ,
Quote
JA
And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last”. Rev 21:12, 13
“I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, **THE ALMIGHTY**”. Rev 1:8
Jesus is “The Almighty” spoken of here, who is to come!
Why would you read 1:8 as being the Father when clearly Rev 21:12, 13 reveals Jesus as the Alpha and Omega who is coming quickly?
Blessings WJThe request was to Katjo who has yet to respond.
Also, and more importantly, I was comparing verse 4 and verse 5;
*vs 4: “…Peace from HIM who was, is and is to come,…” and then the seven spirits that are before HIS thrown.
*vs 5: “and FROM Jesus Christ…”*THIS IS THE ISSUE HERE – please address this – not throw in something else, please.
Verse 8: Since when was Jesus ever called 'The Almighty'. 'The Almighty' what? There is only ONE who is Almighty and that is God the Father.
How is Jesus 'Almighty' if God 'gives him' things.
There is certainly an anomaly in the rendering of Rev 21:13. It is unclear who is speaking as there is a lack of proper quotations (The God, Jesus, the angel, John?)The reading of rev 21:13 certainly seems to be Jesus – could it be that like: “There are three in heaven who testify [father, Son and holy Spirit]…” which turned out have be falsely added, that some element of: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last” has also been falsely added.
However, I don't see how, without some external revelation, the problem line of Rev 23:13 can ever become settled – and it certainly won't be settle in this Forum.
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 06 2010,15:01) The reading of rev 21:13 certainly seems to be Jesus – could it be that like: “There are three in heaven who testify [father, Son and holy Spirit]…” which turned out have be falsely added, that some element of: “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last” has also been falsely added.
JaLike I always say, when it gets down to it the anti-trinitarians have to claim that certain text are corrupt so they can hang on to their doctrines rather than accepting the whole council of God!
Weak indeed!
BTW as far as the Johannine Comma, there is nothing scripturally untrue about the statement, for there are three…
The Father, Son (Word Rev 19:13) and Holy Spirit, and these three are one. Matt 28:19
Blessings WJ
WJ
you never answer my question ;what is your 3 person and you told me here on this site that you have the holyspirit so you live with another being ,?
????sorry 3 plus you that s 4Hi WJ,
The Spirit of God unites Jesus to his God and we too enjoy that unity when we become one with Jesus.
But we do not become God any more than Jesus did.WJ,
I have read Rev 22:12-13 again and I do agree that this is Jesus speaking.
Irrespective of your quip, there is definitely some sort of problem with verse 13.
What would be of interest is a study of Revelations with specific regard to the terms 'Alpha and Omega', 'First and Last' and 'Beginning and End'.
These terms are banded around to 'prove' one thing or another but I would imagine that these exponents don't actually know what they mean.
Do you?
Please explain because I don't!
Perhaps, like 'Worship', if we had a definition, we could -possibly- agree, or at least dispute from the same playing field, never mind it's level.
Been sick last few days, getting better. READ ALL PLEASE:: Rev. 1:7 (NIV) “Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.” Does Jesus call himself the Lord God Almighty? Yes
(Rev 1:8 NIV) “”I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.
Who is coming in the clouds? Verse 7, the one who was pierced. Jesus.
What is his name? Verse 8, the Alpha and the Omega, the Lord God, the Almighty.
(Rev 22:12 NIV) “”Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.”
(Rev 22:13 NIV) “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”
Who gives rewards at his soon coming? Verses 12, 13, the Alpha and the Omega.
(Mat 16:27 NIV) “For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.”
Who is the Son of man that is coming in his Father's glory? Verse 27, it is The Son of Man, (Jesus). Compare with the Alpha and the Omega, the Lord God Almighty that is coming and was pierced, in Rev. 1: 7,8.
(Rev 22:20 NIV) “He who testifies to these things says, 'Yes, I am coming soon.' Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.”
Who is coming soon? the Lord Jesus. Compare Rev. 22: 12,13 as the Alpha and Omegakatjo
THis is exactly why , church is very important! Bible study is awsome! God wants us in church!
katjo
PURE LAZINESS! if you dont want to go!! You want God to save you but dont want to take time out to go to His house. to felloewship with others. learn His word,pray together, help those in need, give to the poor, watch others get baptized, take communion which is part of your salvation!!
KATJO
Quote (katjo @ Feb. 08 2010,13:22) Been sick last few days, getting better. READ ALL PLEASE:: Rev. 1:7 (NIV) “Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.” Does Jesus call himself the Lord God Almighty? Yes (Rev 1:8 NIV) “”I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.
Who is coming in the clouds? Verse 7, the one who was pierced. Jesus.
What is his name? Verse 8, the Alpha and the Omega, the Lord God, the Almighty.
(Rev 22:12 NIV) “”Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.”
(Rev 22:13 NIV) “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.”
Who gives rewards at his soon coming? Verses 12, 13, the Alpha and the Omega.
(Mat 16:27 NIV) “For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.”
Who is the Son of man that is coming in his Father's glory? Verse 27, it is The Son of Man, (Jesus). Compare with the Alpha and the Omega, the Lord God Almighty that is coming and was pierced, in Rev. 1: 7,8.
(Rev 22:20 NIV) “He who testifies to these things says, 'Yes, I am coming soon.' Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.”
Who is coming soon? the Lord Jesus. Compare Rev. 22: 12,13 as the Alpha and Omegakatjo
katjoIf every eye will see Christ, why does it say, “he cometh with clouds”?
Do you know why Paul was blinded when Jesus appeared to him?Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Here is the reason.
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
Jesus is no longer just a spirit being, he is a glorified, Divine (immortal), spirit being; that was his reward from the Father for becoming our sacrifice.
If Jesus would appear to us as he did to Paul, we all be blinded. Every eye will “see” him is not meant literal.
Verse 8 is stating that he, Jesus, was the first and the last the Father himself created, the beginning of God's creation and the end because, everything else was created by Jesus.Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
The glory of his Father, as described in Rev. 1:16.
Jesus does not call himself “Lord God Almighty”; if you look at verse 1, it is an angel that speaks to John.Rev 1:1 ¶ The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
So, Jesus, being the first and the last God created; Being the SON of the Father; coming in the glory of his Father; how can he be the “LORD God Almighty”?
Georg
Quote (katjo @ Feb. 08 2010,14:06) PURE LAZINESS! if you dont want to go!! You want God to save you but dont want to take time out to go to His house. to felloewship with others. learn His word,pray together, help those in need, give to the poor, watch others get baptized, take communion which is part of your salvation!! KATJO
katjoWhat church are you suggesting to join?
Rev 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
Rev 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
Which of the many religion, and denominations, do you think this is referring to? Out of “what” are we supposed to come out off?
Georg
So all those scripts mean; DONT GO TO CHURCH??? So, what is the purpose of the church? Paul gave an excellent illustration to the believers in Corinth. The church is God’s hands, mouth, and feet in this world—the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:12-27). We are to be doing the things that Jesus Christ would do if He were here physically on the earth. The church is to be “Christian,” “Christ-like,” and Christ-following. The church is to teach biblical doctrine so we can be grounded in our faith. Ephesians 4:14 tells us, “Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming.” The church is to be a place of fellowship, where Christians can be devoted to one another and honor one another (Romans 12:10), instruct one another (Romans 15:14), be kind and compassionate to one another (Ephesians 4:32), encourage one another (1 Thessalonians 5:11), and most importantly, love one another (1 John 3:11).
the church is to proclaim the gospel of salvation through Jesus Christ (Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 1:8). The church is called to be faithful in sharing the gospel through word and deed. The church is to be a “lighthouse” in the community, directing people toward our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The church is to promote the gospel and prepare its members to proclaim the gospel (1 Peter 3:15).
katjo
katjo
which one of the 500 or so we go to ??
does it matters if they preach Gods truth or not ,if it does then we have to select,what if there is none who teaches the truth ,now what we do,
if we still go to one and speak about there confusion they will quickly expel you from there church as heretic,or dis fellowship you or Shawn you and your loved ones ,happy not to be in the time of the inquisition.wen Paul talked was in mind to the true religion ,since are faith is in our Hearst so we walk in God,in our actions.
Katjo,
Read again. and this time do not pre-appraise:
Rev 1:7: …HE is coming in the clouds and every eye will see HIM even those who pierced HIM and all teh people of the earth will mourn because of HIM….
Rev 1:8: “I am the …..”
Katjo, what do you say about verse 7. The verse is speaking about Jesus – agreed. Now, why would Jesus then speak about himself in verse 8.
“Clearly”, there is SOMEONE SPEAKING ABOUT JESUS in verse 7 WHO THEN CLOSES THE SPEACH – it cannot 'grammatically' be the same person.
Make up a short story for yourself and see:
“John,
I am going to reveal something to you about Kayjo, and it is true and faithfull:
'SHE will leave work and go to HER home and make HER dinner, eat and then go to HER bed.'
I have spoken theses words, I who know her”If you say that the 'I' is Katjo why does katjo not say:
'I will leave work and go to my home and make my dinner, eat and then go to my bed.'It is certainly a tortuously ungrammattical way (Rev1:7-8) to write about oneself.
Also,
why do you ignore vs 4:-5:
John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace from him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven spirits who are before his throne,and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead,…
Is it not clear that there are TWO people being spoken of here.
is it not clear WHO the two people are?Please explain how you come to mistake the two – or whatever you did to meld the two to imply that is is Jesus alone.
Quote (katjo @ Feb. 08 2010,14:06) PURE LAZINESS! if you dont want to go!! You want God to save you but dont want to take time out to go to His house. to felloewship with others. learn His word,pray together, help those in need, give to the poor, watch others get baptized, take communion which is part of your salvation!! KATJO
Hi Kat,
But you preach the trinity falsehoods of men and not the words of Jesus so how has it helped you?katjo
who is it you always leave bit and pieces of scriptures out of your quotes ;Rev 1:7 Look, he is coming with the clouds,
and every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him;
and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him.
So shall it be! Amen. DO YOU SEE THIS WORD “AMEN”THIS MEAN DONE. NEW SENTENCE.
Rev 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”JustAskin..There is only ONe Lord and scripture tells you everywhere JESUS IS LORD!! He is Lord God. REV. 1;1 John is speaking from 1-7 KING JAMES BIBLE HAS RED LETTERS WHEN JESUS HIMSELF SPOKE…(8) (RED LETTERS)..JESUS”S WORDS… I AM THE ALPHA AND OMEGA, the beginning and the ending,(black letters) saith the Lord, (red letters) which is and which was, and which is to come.THE ALMIGHTY!! 9, and 10 JOhn speaks again, He says he heard behind him a great voice as a trumpet,(11) RED LETTERS AGAIN,I AM THE ALPHA AND OMEGA, THE FIRST AND THE LAST(12) jOHN AGAIN; hE TURNED TO SEE THE VOICE that spoke and saw seven golden candle sticks (13) in the midst of them was one like the Son of Man 14, 15, 16, continues telling you what He wore and what he was like(17) (still John) and when I saw him, I fell at His feet as dead. And He laid His right hand upon me, and saying unto me,(RED LETTERS AGAIN) FEAR NOT; I AM THE FIRST AND THE LAST. FROM THERE TO THE END OF CHAPTER 3 IS JESUS'S WORDS. And John speaks again in 4.
God Bless…
katjo
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