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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 13 2009,14:18) GB,
The vain old intellect has to be reconformed to Scripture.
Jesus is our teacher.
NH.
Yet you don't believe what He (Jesus) says? (Matt.15:24) How can He be your teacher?Nick…….That not the point Chosenone was making, He was Just showing who Jesus was really sent to, it was not the gentiles, but Israel and you have taken it from there and added all you wrong assumptions to it. as you do other scriptures, like the seperation of the nations and calling them individuals. You are forcing the text when you do these things.
love and peace…………………..gene
GB,
Did the nations ever see Jesus hungry and refuse to feed him?
Are nations held responsible for the actions of their subjects?Nick…………ABSOLUTELY THEY ARE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE ACTION OF THEIR SUBJECTS, “the leaders have caused My People to fail”. So according to Nicks Gospel should we just through out the word (NATIONS) written their then right?. And replace it with individuals.
Thought the principle can be applied to all people individually, Here Jesus is talking about the separating of the Nation at His comings. I think its better if we don't change the context or force the text to meet our conclusions Nick.
love and peace………………………gene
HGB,
Really?So whole nations will be cast into the fire because a few did not recognise Jesus in his brothers?
I prefer the fairness and kindness of our God to your warped doctrines
Nick………does it matter what you think or what Scripture is talking about. Who gives you the right to change context whenever you please and accuse other of doing that, does the name Hypocrite mean any thing to you. I don't believe anyone is going to be tossed into a literal fire remember thats your warped Doctrine not mine.
peace and love………………….gene
GB,
So if you do not accept that part of Mt25 why do you claim to accept any of it as true?
Can we mix and match allegories and truth in the same chapter?Nick…….good question you seem to be able to, mix and match your own theologies. And i do accept all of Mt25, its your understanding of what is written that the problem here not whats written. If you understood GODS plan and His will and Purpose, you also could understand it.
peace and love……………gene
Quote So if you do not accept that part of Mt25 why do you claim to accept any of it as true? Why don't we actually look at what the scripture says and doesn't say:
‘Be on YOUR way from me, YOU who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. . . .And these will depart into everlasting cutting-off [Greek, ko′la·sin], but the righteous ones into everlasting life.” (Mat 25:41,46)
Notice that it says the fire is everlasting, not that they are burned everlastingly.
The Emphatic Diaglott reads “cutting-off” instead of “punishment” (as most Bible's do.)
A footnote states: “Kolasin . . . is derived from kolazoo, which signifies, 1. To cut off; as lopping off branches of trees, to prune. 2. To restrain, to repress. . . . 3. To chastise, to punish. To cut off an individual from life, or society, or even to restrain, is esteemed as punishment;—hence has arisen this third metaphorical use of the word. The primary signification has been adopted, because it agrees better with the second member of the sentence, thus preserving the force and beauty of the antithesis. The righteous go to life, the wicked to the cutting off from life, or death.
So, while “cutting off” has become a form of punishment and hence, that definition, the primary meaning of the word is “cutting off” or “lopping off.”
They will be cut off from life. And this is indeed punishment.David………God Himself is the consuming Fire and the reason the fire is everlasting is because God true Judgments never disappear, Again David you are looking at Fire from a literal point of view just as you do the Kingdom of GOD. And you as Nick leave out the Nations mentioned Here, why is that David is it because it doesn't meet your views and with Nick. And if you both will notice it says when the Son of man (COMES) but no where in scripture does it say when Jesus comes there is a lake of fire.The everlasting fire is everlasting Judgments of GOD and when a person has been purge of the evil or Gross that is in him His Smoke will ascend up for ever , that means He never will forget it, it will always be present in his or her life for ever as a reminder of what they went through. Start looking at things from the Spirit., come out of the physical mind set.
peace………………..gene
I would just like to say that I do not believe that the unrighteous will be physically or spiritually tortured forever and ever, for that is not love. I think that all these scriptures are couched in emotive language, such as ” where the worm does not die nor the fire is quenched” or “and the smoke from their torture will rise forever and ever”, in order to emphasize the finality of these things, and not torture. Men can and will be raised from hades (common grave) and bound angels released from the abyss, but nothing will ever return from the lake of fire, into which utimately and lastly will be cast God's greatest ememy – death. I cannot, no,could not bring myself to imagine the sheer horror that an incorrigeable unbeliever will see and feel when resurrected, only to be told that for this list of reasons you are condemned to everlasting death, particularly when the presence of the rightous will make his error self evident. I would certainly gnash my teeth at that point if I am such. This is why we must love them, for they are now getting their reward in full. I would not like such moments to go on forever, and I do not think my God or my Christ would. No more death equals no torture.
May you have peace
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 14 2009,15:25) David………God Himself is the consuming Fire and the reason the fire is everlasting is because God true Judgments never disappear, Again David you are looking at Fire from a literal point of view just as you do the Kingdom of GOD. And you as Nick leave out the Nations mentioned Here, why is that David is it because it doesn't meet your views and with Nick. And if you both will notice it says when the Son of man (COMES) but no where in scripture does it say when Jesus comes there is a lake of fire.The everlasting fire is everlasting Judgments of GOD and when a person has been purge of the evil or Gross that is in him His Smoke will ascend up for ever , that means He never will forget it, it will always be present in his or her life for ever as a reminder of what they went through. Start looking at things from the Spirit., come out of the physical mind set. peace………………..gene
Hi Gene:How do you interpret the following scriptues?
Quote Eze 20:48 And all flesh shall see that I the LORD have kindled it: it shall not be quenched. Quote Mar 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
(42767……….In all you are quoting God is talking about Him kindling Judgments in the earth and as long a man does not change the Judgments on him will never cease, the worn (Will) of Man must die, as Jesus put His worn (WILL) to death we must also do. God view our carnal nature as a worn, man is indeed a snake or worm in the earth, as History has plainly shown. The engine that drives this worm is LUST and PRIDE. It is in every man and Must be destroyed, through FIRE (INTENSE JUDGMENTS). And as long as that part is not removed from a person the FIRE (intense Judgments) is not removed. IMO
peace and love ot you and yours……………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 15 2009,06:44) (42767……….In all you are quoting God is talking about Him kindling Judgments in the earth and as long a man does not change the Judgments on him will never cease, the worn (Will) of Man must die, as Jesus put His worn (WILL) to death we must also do. God view our carnal nature as a worn, man is indeed a snake or worm in the earth, as History has plainly shown. The engine that drives this worm is LUST and PRIDE. It is in every man and Must be destroyed, through FIRE (INTENSE JUDGMENTS). And as long as that part is not removed from a person the FIRE (intense Judgments) is not removed. IMO peace and love ot you and yours……………………..gene
Hi Gene:You mean like this:
Quote Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh 942767………DO you even know what the quote really means if so explain it to us. DO you transgress ever, so i wouldn't be so hard on others, it may also include you. O i see God will bless you and fry the rest, because you are not just quite as bad as they are (your evil) is just not quite as bad as theirs. Interesting, all you fire and brimstone preachers away exclude yourselves of course. But what does scripture say He who condemns another condemns Himself, so if i were you i wouldn't be hasty to condemn anyone. Not to mention it is appointed unto all to die once, then after that the (JUDGMENT) but in your belief and Nicks the LAKE OF FIRE, except you two of course. The Lord said He looked for (ONE) righteous man and said (NO) NOT EVEN ONE. Wherefore the LORD took it upon His own arm to bring SALVATION. Of course you and Nicks idea of that is Just for you two and everyone else is to be crispy critters. And all that by a GOD who said He is no respecter of Persons, and is described as LOVE. Who tells us to even forgive our enemies and to love them who deceitfully use you and say all manor of things against falsely and i might add misquote you and Label you also. If you want i can give Scripture to back up everything i said Here. But i think you know its true. Except for the GRACE OF GOD (NO) ONE WOULD BE SAVED and that includes you and NICK to.
peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
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