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Quote (2besee @ Dec. 24 2012,15:20) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 25 2012,05:28) “The first man Adam becamecame to be IN a living being”; the last Adambecamecame to be IN a life-giving spirit. ?Would it be wise of us to just ADD the word “IN” to this verse, without a care in the world about how it CHANGES the entire teaching? YES or NO?
Is my point beginning to “make sense” to you now?
No because it says elsewhere in scripture:'Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me…………..
So then you are saying that it IS okay for us to ADD the word “IN” into 1 Cor 15:45, making the teaching say that the last Adam came to be IN a life-giving spirit, and the first Adam came to be IN a living being?
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 24 2012,19:45) Hi Besee. I noticed that you are getting more and more twisted in your understanding.
Yep. He is adding words to scripture, changing meanings, and adding a second rider to the white horse……………. all for one very selfish reason: He WANTS John 1:14 to say, The Word came to be in flesh – instead of what it really says.I'm glad that I'm not the only one here noticing how the twisting is going farther and farther from the truth of the scriptures, just because of that original, selfish desire.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 24 2012,07:17) In John 1 the writer explicitly states the Word is God and then later stated the Word became flesh. This sets up an likeness between the Word that is God and the Word that is made flesh.
A “likeness between” two things, Kerwin?Actually, your understanding says God Almighty Himself became flesh.
Did that ever happen?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 25 2012,21:45) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 24 2012,07:17) In John 1 the writer explicitly states the Word is God and then later stated the Word became flesh. This sets up an likeness between the Word that is God and the Word that is made flesh.
A “likeness between” two things, Kerwin?Actually, your understanding says God Almighty Himself became flesh.
Did that ever happen?
Mike,Our associates, the Trinitaians, get confused on this issue as they believe this makes one human being God, but seemingly not the others.
In a matter of speaking God is made flesh every time he comes to dwell in a human being through his Spirit.
Jehovah is in believers and believers are in him.
Jesus is the one in who Jehovah dwells primarily by his Spirit and he dwells in the rest by the through though the same Spirit by him.
I inferred yes to your question and used an essay answer to clarify what that “yes” means.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 25 2012,19:43) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 25 2012,22:13) wakeup, Do you believe that an angel materializes when Scripture states he appears?
Consider: Balaam's ass saw an angel while it was still hidden from Balaam's site.
Consider: Elisha whose servant's eyes were open to see Angelic Chariots and the soldiers who were blinded so they knew not where they were.
Kerwin.Two persons walking;an angel can only appear to one of them,the other person can not see but the one only.
Saul(paul) saw the light speaking to him(jesus);but his men did not see the light ,only heard a voice.
Same situation with Elisha; he could see but his servant could not ,untill his eyes also were opened.
wakeup.
Wakeup,Angels and demons dwell among us and we simply do not see them as our eyes are closed to their presence. They appear when our eyes are opened to see them.
I see nothing in Scripture to infer they materialize.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 26 2012,05:55) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 25 2012,19:43) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 25 2012,22:13) wakeup, Do you believe that an angel materializes when Scripture states he appears?
Consider: Balaam's ass saw an angel while it was still hidden from Balaam's site.
Consider: Elisha whose servant's eyes were open to see Angelic Chariots and the soldiers who were blinded so they knew not where they were.
Kerwin.Two persons walking;an angel can only appear to one of them,the other person can not see but the one only.
Saul(paul) saw the light speaking to him(jesus);but his men did not see the light ,only heard a voice.
Same situation with Elisha; he could see but his servant could not ,untill his eyes also were opened.
wakeup.
Wakeup,Angels and demons dwell among us and we simply do not see them as our eyes are closed to their presence. They appear when our eyes are opened to see them.
I see nothing in Scripture to infer they materialize.
Kerwin.Please explain the two angels that visited Lots house in the city of Sodom.? Did they not materialise;those men of Sodom wanted to sleep with them.
wakeup.
Wakeup,
I believe that angels are able to both travel as spiritual beings within our realm and be seen by human eyes if opened, or to enter through portals (Jacob's ladder) to take on a physical appearance able to interact with man.My opinion – Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 26 2012,11:32) Wakeup,
I believe that angels are able to both travel as spiritual beings within our realm and be seen by human eyes if opened, or to enter through portals (Jacob's ladder) to take on a physical appearance able to interact with man.My opinion – Wm
Seekingtruth.Exactly,they can materialise if required by God.
This is not just an opinion.wakeup.
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2012,11:22) Quote 'Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.' 'Don't you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words I speak are not my own, but my Father who lives in me does his work through me.'
in plain english what is this means???
Hi T,
Jesus said that He could do nothing on his own account, and that He only did what He saw the Father doing. (John 5:30, John 5:19)
When He said that He was in the Father and the Father was in Him, it was through the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit connects the Father and the Son, and the Holy Spirit connects us with the Father and with the Son as well.Together they are one, just as believers in them are one with them.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 25 2012,11:39) 2beesee, Quote Amen Kerwin I agree with that 
Do you know that months ago I was an Arian type believer. It is only in the past so many months that I have come to see this differently, though I will admit that I was beginning to see this years ago but I went off track badly.
I have also tread a long and winding path that appears similar to yours.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 25 2012,14:45) Quote (2besee @ Dec. 25 2012,07:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 25 2012,04:55) So are you saying that the rider of the white horse was BOTH Jesus AND the Holy Spirit that was in him?
Yes!The rider on the white horse is both 'The Word' and also 'Jesus'. Jesus was body — and God's word and spirit are spirit.
The book of revelations is written in symbolic form, so not much can be taken literally. Spiritual things have been shown in picture.
Quote Were there TWO riders on that horse, and some of the verses described ONE of the riders, while some of the verses described THE OTHER of the TWO riders? I suppose that you could say that.
Hi Besee.I noticed that you are getting more and more twisted in your understanding.
Christ was man; now he is still man with a new body.
The old flesh is past for him, and WILL ALSO BE FOR US.CHRIST IS THE WORD OF GOD AND WILL ALWAYS BE THE WORD OF GOD.(spirit).
HE IS SPIRIT NOW,ALTHOUGH HE CAN MATERIALISE ANYTIME.(we also, will be able to).The two angels also did materialise entering sodom.
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup.
So, what happened to the body of Jesus then?
If he was just spirit then why was he a new creation?Much more to say about this, but not enough time right now… and to Mike and the rest too – back later.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 26 2012,06:06) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 26 2012,05:55) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 25 2012,19:43) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 25 2012,22:13) wakeup, Do you believe that an angel materializes when Scripture states he appears?
Consider: Balaam's ass saw an angel while it was still hidden from Balaam's site.
Consider: Elisha whose servant's eyes were open to see Angelic Chariots and the soldiers who were blinded so they knew not where they were.
Kerwin.Two persons walking;an angel can only appear to one of them,the other person can not see but the one only.
Saul(paul) saw the light speaking to him(jesus);but his men did not see the light ,only heard a voice.
Same situation with Elisha; he could see but his servant could not ,untill his eyes also were opened.
wakeup.
Wakeup,Angels and demons dwell among us and we simply do not see them as our eyes are closed to their presence. They appear when our eyes are opened to see them.
I see nothing in Scripture to infer they materialize.
Kerwin.Please explain the two angels that visited Lots house in the city of Sodom.? Did they not materialise;those men of Sodom wanted to sleep with them.
wakeup.
Wakeup,Angels have both a physical presence and miraculous powers. I see nothing in Scripture that supports them not having a material presence. The material is not of this world as their world is the heavenly realms.
The two that came to see Lot had journeyed from Abraham. A third tarried behind and continued to visit Abraham.
I believe humanity was created in their likeness.
Quote (2besee @ Dec. 26 2012,13:31) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 25 2012,14:45) Quote (2besee @ Dec. 25 2012,07:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 25 2012,04:55) So are you saying that the rider of the white horse was BOTH Jesus AND the Holy Spirit that was in him?
Yes!The rider on the white horse is both 'The Word' and also 'Jesus'. Jesus was body — and God's word and spirit are spirit.
The book of revelations is written in symbolic form, so not much can be taken literally. Spiritual things have been shown in picture.
Quote Were there TWO riders on that horse, and some of the verses described ONE of the riders, while some of the verses described THE OTHER of the TWO riders? I suppose that you could say that.
Hi Besee.I noticed that you are getting more and more twisted in your understanding.
Christ was man; now he is still man with a new body.
The old flesh is past for him, and WILL ALSO BE FOR US.CHRIST IS THE WORD OF GOD AND WILL ALWAYS BE THE WORD OF GOD.(spirit).
HE IS SPIRIT NOW,ALTHOUGH HE CAN MATERIALISE ANYTIME.(we also, will be able to).The two angels also did materialise entering sodom.
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup.
So, what happened to the body of Jesus then?
If he was just spirit then why was he a new creation?Much more to say about this, but not enough time right now… and to Mike and the rest too – back later.
2Besee.He was quickened.
His body was changed into a spirit body,like the angels.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2012,04:29) Quote (2besee @ Dec. 24 2012,15:02) Hi Mike. Kerwin answered this well.
The Word and the Spirit is OF God but is not God in the entirety…………
I have many times in the past broken Mike to other people.2B, do you or Kerwin have any idea what I'm talking about?
No, no idea
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2012,04:33) Quote (2besee @ Dec. 24 2012,15:02) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 25 2012,05:22)
John 14:26 NIV
But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.Does it really say, But God, whom the Father will send in my name………… ?
Did the Father SEND “God” to the disciples to remind them of everything Jesus had said to them?
Hi Mike.So yes I can confidently read those verses and understand them, just as they are.
So then it makes perfect sense to you to say, The Father sent God to the people. ?
The Father sent his Holy Spirit.Check this out:
Jesus promised to 'send another Comforter', the Holy Spirit. Then He said, 'I will come to you'………….God was Thought, Word, Breath, Spirit. Jesus of Nazareth was a human 'body prepared' Hebrews 10:5.
John 14:15-23.
“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
And I will pray the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you for ever,
even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him; YOU KNOW HIM, FOR HE DWELLS WITH YOU, and will be in you.“I — will not leave you desolate; I will come to you.”
Jesus just said that he would send the Comforter (Holy Spirit) to be with them forever, then He said that HE would come to them….
“Yet a little while, and the world will see me no more, but you will see me; because I live, you will live also.
In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.
He who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.
Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?”
Jesus answered him, “If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and WE WILL COME TO HIM AND MAKE OUR HOME WITH HIM”.How, Mike, do you explain that?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2012,04:37) Quote (2besee @ Dec. 24 2012,15:20) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 25 2012,05:28) “The first man Adam becamecame to be IN a living being”; the last Adambecamecame to be IN a life-giving spirit. ?Would it be wise of us to just ADD the word “IN” to this verse, without a care in the world about how it CHANGES the entire teaching? YES or NO?
Is my point beginning to “make sense” to you now?
No because it says elsewhere in scripture:'Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me…………..
So then you are saying that it IS okay for us to ADD the word “IN” into 1 Cor 15:45, making the teaching say that the last Adam came to be IN a life-giving spirit, and the first Adam came to be IN a living being?
No.The first Adam was made of the dust of the earth. The second Adam was born of man BUT had no Father, like Adam.
So….. The first Adam became a 'living being' and the second Adam became a life-giving spirit………. after he was risen from the dead. He is the firstfruit.
Mike, that verse is talking about Jesus after death it has nothing to do with John 1:1 in that way. I still don't understand your question, it is a trick question.
Quote (2besee @ Dec. 26 2012,20:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2012,04:37) Quote (2besee @ Dec. 24 2012,15:20) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 25 2012,05:28) “The first man Adam becamecame to be IN a living being”; the last Adambecamecame to be IN a life-giving spirit. ?Would it be wise of us to just ADD the word “IN” to this verse, without a care in the world about how it CHANGES the entire teaching? YES or NO?
Is my point beginning to “make sense” to you now?
No because it says elsewhere in scripture:'Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me…………..
So then you are saying that it IS okay for us to ADD the word “IN” into 1 Cor 15:45, making the teaching say that the last Adam came to be IN a life-giving spirit, and the first Adam came to be IN a living being?
No.The first Adam was made of the dust of the earth. The second Adam was born of man BUT had no Father, like Adam.
So….. The first Adam became a 'living being' and the second Adam became a life-giving spirit………. after he was risen from the dead. He is the firstfruit.
2Besee.The first man Adam was made a living soul.
The last Adam was made a quickening spirit.1cor.15.QUOTE:
The first Adam was made of the dust of the earth. The second Adam was born of man BUT HAD NO FATHER, like Adam.UNQUOTE:JESUS HAD NO FATHER??? whats going on here?
wakeup.
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