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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 17 2013,10:12) And that means we have a clear SCRIPTURAL example of the Most High God allowing a less high god to use his own power to perform many signs and wonders that no “false god” or “man-made idol” could have done.
Where is the scripture that says satan is a less high god?Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. Job 1:6
Where in this scripture are the sons of god called gods. It doesn't say “the lessor high god came also among them”, as much as you would like for it to say that.
WJ
wj
Quote Mike, you and t8 accuse Trinitarians of a belief system originating from pagan origins, yet the two of you have a belief system that is rooted in Greek Mythology. nasty , prove it ,because I believe as they do ; i am waiting ,if you do not show up I will call you to hot seat for a title
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2013,10:27) wj Quote Mike, you and t8 accuse Trinitarians of a belief system originating from pagan origins, yet the two of you have a belief system that is rooted in Greek Mythology. nasty , prove it ,because I believe as they do ; i am waiting ,if you do not show up I will call you to hot seat for a title
OOOOH Im scared!Click on the link I provided for Greek Mythology and see if it doesn't match your theology in believing in other gods.
WJ
Greek mythology is the body of myths and teachings that belong to the ancient Greeks, concerning their gods and heroes, the nature of the world, and the origins and significance of their own cult and ritual practices. It was a part of the religion in ancient Greece. Modern scholars refer to and study the myths in an attempt to throw light on the religious and political institutions of Ancient Greece and its civilization, and to gain understanding of the nature of myth-making itself. Greek Mythology
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 03 2013,21:39) Greek mythology is the body of myths and teachings that belong to the ancient Greeks, concerning their gods and heroes, the nature of the world, and the origins and significance of their own cult and ritual practices. It was a part of the religion in ancient Greece. Modern scholars refer to and study the myths in an attempt to throw light on the religious and political institutions of Ancient Greece and its civilization, and to gain understanding of the nature of myth-making itself. Greek Mythology WJ
wjyou have my way in thinking wrong;
you have to prove that actually,that what t8,mike and me believe COMES FROM THE GREEK MYTHOLOGY, AND THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN PROVE THIS IS MAKE THE BIBLE “ORIGINATE FROM THE GREEKS MYTHOLOGY, WHAT YOU CAN NOT DO ;
BECAUSE THE CLOSES YOU CAN REALLY GO IS ;
Ge 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.NEXT STEP WOULD BE THE CLAY TABLETS ;SO YOU ARE OUT DONE ,AND WHAT YOU SAY IS A LIE ,
but this is your turn so let see what you say
yet have lot more in my bagQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 03 2013,21:37) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 03 2013,10:27) wj Quote Mike, you and t8 accuse Trinitarians of a belief system originating from pagan origins, yet the two of you have a belief system that is rooted in Greek Mythology. nasty , prove it ,because I believe as they do ; i am waiting ,if you do not show up I will call you to hot seat for a title
OOOOH Im scared!Click on the link I provided for Greek Mythology and see if it doesn't match your theology in believing in other gods.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 04 2013,00:45) Quote (david @ Aug. 26 2013,16:37) (It's not the worship that makes them gods (mighty ones) to people. Its the fact that they are mighty ones.
Wrong David,Then that would mean that everything that is Mighty is a god.
The term mighty is subjective. To a 4 year old child his Father is mighty, but does that make his Father a god?
To a human an elephant is mighty, but does that make the elephant a god?
WJ
WjYou are finally getting it.
Yes, “mighty” is subjective. Obviously. Just like “big” is subjective” or “powerful” is subjective. And yes, the word “god” (mighty one) is subjective.
To humans, angels were mighty ones (gods), but of course, to god almighty, angels aren't gods.
To human Israelites, the judges were gods, mighty ones. To angels, of course these judges weren't mighty ones, or gods.
Was it Moses that was made a god (mighty one) to pharaoh? Yet, is Moses a god to Jesus?Yes, subjective.
But here's the thing, the one who is a mighy one compared to all else, the only one described 42 times as “all mighy” in the bible, there are none that are mighty COMPARED to him. Hence, even Jesus 5 times said that the father was his god.
I also think it's a little different saying something can be described as a god and saying it is “my god.”
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 04 2013,00:54) Quote (david @ Aug. 26 2013,16:48)
Wj, the problem with this post and the one before it to me, is you focus on the “only” and assume the true means: “the opposite of false.”
DavidWhy do you seek to redefine words? Only means “Only”.
If he is my “Only” True Friend then that means I have no other true friends.
ONLY….
ADJECTIVE:Alone in kind or class; sole: an only child; the only one left.Standing alone by reason of superiority or excellence.
ADVERB:
Without anyone or anything else; alone: room for only one passenger.I realize you must do this to justify your belief in other gods.
WJ
You once again did exactly what I just accused you of. It's so bizarre, it almost feels like a red herringly delicious straw thing a am bobber.I know what “only” means. But you don't understand what “true” means.
You focus so much on the word “only,” you are sort of taking the word “true” for granted.
“Only true god.”
Again, I can say that my life long friend of 20 years is my “only true friend,” but in fact I have 10 close friends. So,
*ARE THE OTHER 9 “false friends”? *
Rather than focus on the word only and scream: “you only have one friend,” therefore you don't have 10 friends,” why don't you focus on the fact that in normal language, a person can use the word “true” in a way that doesn't mean: “the opposite of false.”
Again, all of my friends would help me out no matter what. But the one friend, would never ever leave me. If this guy epitomizes the word friend, and defines it in every way, can it not said that despite me having many friends, he is my “only true friend”?
And similarly, since god (mighty one) is mighty compared to all others, can it not similarly be said that he is the only “true” god, and yet, this not making other gods false, just as my other friends aren't false?
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 04 2013,00:54) Quote (david @ Aug. 26 2013,16:48)
Wj, the problem with this post and the one before it to me, is you focus on the “only” and assume the true means: “the opposite of false.”
DavidWhy do you seek to redefine words? Only means “Only”.
If he is my “Only” True Friend then that means I have no other true friends.
ONLY….
ADJECTIVE:Alone in kind or class; sole: an only child; the only one left.Standing alone by reason of superiority or excellence.
ADVERB:
Without anyone or anything else; alone: room for only one passenger.I realize you must do this to justify your belief in other gods.
WJ
Wj,It's great that you've looked up the word “only.”
But, what is stopping you from looking up the word “true”?
There are definitions of true that in fact don't mean: “the opposite of false.”
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 04 2013,01:03) David Quote (david @ Aug. 26 2013,16:48) But perhaps to an artist, once the tiniest bit of red is put in, you have purple, despite it appearing blue.
But it is no longer blue is it? Kind of like you, t8 and Mike believe these other gods are blue when they are not blue at all are they?Quote (david @ Aug. 26 2013,16:48) So, if someone shows you five different blues, and you pick out the only one that is true blue, that true blue, it doesn't mean the other blues are false blue or fake blue.
Of course not, because they are all true blue. But if it was true that there is “Only One True Blue” then there would be no other true blue.Why is this such a grey area for you?
I am disappointed in you David, for this is elementary stuff. WJ
“Of course not, because they are all true blue.”No, to someone that paints, although there are a hundred shades of blue (blue with another color such as red or yellow added) or tones of blue (blue with black or white added), “true blue” would be only blue with NO Yellow or red or black or white or any combination of those. Yet, I could show you a hundred blues and you would call each of them blue.
You could take a swimming pile worth of blue and add in one drop of yellow, and technically, you would have green, or, blue blue blue green, a very blue green. Yet, despite looking blue, it wouldn't be true blue because the definition of green is: blue+yellow. Once you've added yellow, you no longer have true blue, despite it still looking virtually exactly like blue.
A million people might call it blue and it is in fact a shade of blue, but its not the epitome or blue. It's not the definition of blue. It's not the true blue.
So again, there is blue, and there is true blue. The fact that true blue exists doesn't make the other blues “FALSE BLUES.”
Despite this being as you say elementary stuff, I think it must have been a while since you've been in elementary school, or played with color, or perhaps even logic or reason, or words.
:-). Too far?
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 17 2013,18:04) True or False? 2 Samuel 7:22
“How great you are, Sovereign LORD! There is no one like you, and there is no God (elohim) but you, as we have heard with our own ears.
You obviously have a problem with Jesus who said, “ye are gods” which was a quote from the OT that goes, “ye are gods, ye are all sons of the Most High God”.So here we go around the mulberry bush again. And I guess this saying is right, “always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth”.
Yourself and WJ have a problem with Jesus. You really do because he used the word 'theos' in ways that you disagree with.
Quote (david @ Sep. 04 2013,11:48) You could take a swimming pile worth of blue and add in one drop of yellow, and technically, you would have green, or, blue blue blue green, a very blue green. Yet, despite looking blue, it wouldn't be true blue because the definition of green is: blue+yellow. Once you've added yellow, you no longer have true blue, despite it still looking virtually exactly like blue. A million people might call it blue and it is in fact a shade of blue, but its not the epitome or blue. It's not the definition of blue. It's not the true blue.
So again, there is blue, and there is true blue. The fact that true blue exists doesn't make the other blues “FALSE BLUES.”
Despite this being as you say elementary stuff, I think it must have been a while since you've been in elementary school, or played with color, or perhaps even logic or reason, or words.
Nice one david.I guess blue with a dash of yellow is false blue at least according to these other guys here.
Let's apply this to another verse.
“Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good–except God alone.”.
Does this mean that Jesus was evil or that Jesus was still good, but that this good came from God and he could not say it originated with him.
Obviously the 'all theos except YHWH is false' concept is a load of cobblers, in the same way that 'all who are good but God himself are really evil'.
Jesus is not evil or falsely good. Jesus is good because of God and not of himself.
i would it bring one step further IF WE REMOVE ONE COLOR OF THE RAINBOW ,WHAT DO WE HAVE NOW
1) A RAINBOW
2) NOTHINGTHIS IS THE SAME IF WE FIDDLE WITH THE TRUTH OF GOD ;
Mt 22:18 But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me?
Mt 22:19 Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius,
Mt 22:20 and he asked them, “Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?”
Mt 22:21 “Caesar’s,” they replied.
Then he said to them, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2013,14:49) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 17 2013,18:04) True or False? 2 Samuel 7:22
“How great you are, Sovereign LORD! There is no one like you, and there is no God (elohim) but you, as we have heard with our own ears.
You obviously have a problem with Jesus who said, “ye are gods” which was a quote from the OT that goes, “ye are gods, ye are all sons of the Most High God”.So here we go around the mulberry bush again. And I guess this saying is right, “always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth”.
Yourself and WJ have a problem with Jesus. You really do because he used the word 'theos' in ways that you disagree with.
Hi t8:So then, by the fact that you are a son of God, you also are “a god”?
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Sep. 05 2013,01:20) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2013,14:49) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 17 2013,18:04) True or False? 2 Samuel 7:22
“How great you are, Sovereign LORD! There is no one like you, and there is no God (elohim) but you, as we have heard with our own ears.
You obviously have a problem with Jesus who said, “ye are gods” which was a quote from the OT that goes, “ye are gods, ye are all sons of the Most High God”.So here we go around the mulberry bush again. And I guess this saying is right, “always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth”.
Yourself and WJ have a problem with Jesus. You really do because he used the word 'theos' in ways that you disagree with.
Hi t8:So then, by the fact that you are a son of God, you also are “a god”?
Love in Christ,
Marty
Martyanyone with the truth of God almighty his more mighty than the greatest sinner on earth or in heaven ,
think about it ; I do love to be a son of my God
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 03 2013,06:13) The difference between us is I believe the scriptures that says “there is no god but one” while you have a Polytheistic view that says there are more than one God.
And who exactly does scripture say that “one God” is, Keith? Father and Son? Or just “one God, the Father”? (Please don't address this part of my post – for this is not the thread for it. I was just making a point that you are going out of your way with David to emphasize “ONLY” and “TRUE” – apparently oblivious to the fact that the Father is the ONLY god in scripture who has “ONLY” and “TRUE” applied to Him.)Btw, I don't believe in many “Gods” – with a capped “G”. I believe exactly what Paul clearly wrote in 1 Cor 8:5-6, which is, While there do indeed exist many gods, both in heaven and on earth, for ME there is but one God, the Father.
I am in accordance with Paul. While I accept the scriptural truth about the existence of many gods, I have as MY OWN God ONLY the Father, Jehovah.
I am exactly as polytheistic as the scriptures are. No more, no less.
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 05 2013,08:29) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 05 2013,01:20) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 04 2013,14:49) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 17 2013,18:04) True or False? 2 Samuel 7:22
“How great you are, Sovereign LORD! There is no one like you, and there is no God (elohim) but you, as we have heard with our own ears.
You obviously have a problem with Jesus who said, “ye are gods” which was a quote from the OT that goes, “ye are gods, ye are all sons of the Most High God”.So here we go around the mulberry bush again. And I guess this saying is right, “always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth”.
Yourself and WJ have a problem with Jesus. You really do because he used the word 'theos' in ways that you disagree with.
Hi t8:So then, by the fact that you are a son of God, you also are “a god”?
Love in Christ,
Marty
Martyanyone with the truth of God almighty his more mighty than the greatest sinner on earth or in heaven ,
think about it ; I do love to be a son of my God
So, because you are a son of god, are you then “a god”?That was the question. It is a privilege, and honor to be a son of God, but I am not “a god”, but am a partaker of “His divine nature”.
Quote
1Jo 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 03 2013,07:15) This is the commentary of one of the most renowned commentators…
My understanding of Deut 32:17 aligns almost perfectly with the words from this unnamed commentator that you posted.It seems we are all at least in agreement that the “new gods” were in fact demons. Good.
Now all we have to do is align OUR definition of “el/theos/god” with the SCRIPTURAL definition of the same.
I have done that. It is clear that you have not.
Keith, please tell us YOUR personal definition of the English word “god”. And then tell us if your definition ALWAYS aligns with the way “el” and “theos” are used in scripture – or if it ONLY aligns to those Hebrew and Greek words WHEN the god in question is Jehovah. (This is very important to the discussion. Because if YOU think “god” means “creator of all things”, we will never come to a scriptural agreement on this matter……….. because “el” and “theos” NEVER MEANT “creator of all things”. So please, no matter which part of my posts you address or ignore, at least address this one thing.)
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 03 2013,07:15) I acknowledge that Paul believed their worship of Idols was to demons……..
Very good. So while not all the idols that man fabricated from wood, stone or metal represented powerful spirit beings………….. MANY OF THEM DID. Many of them represented real, living spirit beings. You and I are now aligned with the Apostle Paul. That is a good thing.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 03 2013,07:15) …….not that Paul believed they were gods but only gods to those who worshipped them.
Where is that written? Is Jehovah ONLY a god to those who worship Him? Does the fact that atheists don't worship him have any bearing on whether or not He is in fact a god?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 03 2013,07:15) Where does Paul say that idols are real gods?
Where does he say the demons they represent AREN'T real gods? Does the fact that Jesus is never specifically called a “REAL savior” in scripture mean that he ISN'T a “REAL savior”? Or does the ABSENCE of the word “false” imply he is a real savior?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 03 2013,07:15) And even if you are right about that verse, Paul is in no way contradicting his own words that “there is no god but one” by saying satan is “a god”……
Nor was he contradicting himself in 1 Cor 8, by saying that although there ARE many gods, for us there is but one……… the Father.Like I said, I am perfectly aligned with those words because I too believe there are many gods, both in heaven and on earth, but have as my own God only one of them…………. the Father.
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