False gods/idols vrs the one true god

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2013,20:12)

What we do know is that demons were called gods by Moses.

So what Mike?

Stu says Christians believe in Fairies but does that mean there are real Fairies?

This is how many translations read Duet 32:17…

They sacrificed to demons, which are not God–  NIV

They sacrificed unto demons, which were no God,  ASV

They sacrificed to demons, non-gods…CJB

They sacrificed to demons that were no gods…ESV

They sacrificed to gods that are not real…GNT

They sacrificed to demons, [which were] no God,…HNV

They offered sacrifices to demons, non-gods…NLT

They sacrificed to demons which were no gods…RSV

They sacrificed to no-god demons…MSG

They sacrificed to demons, which were no God…WEB

They sacrifice to demons — no god!…YLT

Now look at the context of Deut 32…

They made me jealous by what is no god and angered me with their worthless idols. I will make them envious by those who are not a people; I will make them angry by a nation that has no understanding.   Deut 32:21 NIV

Even you favorite says…

They, for their part, have incited me to jealousy with what is no god;
They have vexed me with their vain idols;
And I, for my part, shall incite them to jealousy with what is no people;
With a stupid nation I shall offend them. NWT

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2013,20:12)

And since Moses gave no indication that these demons were “false gods” or “so-called gods”, we have no scriptural reason to believe they were, do we?

Sure he does. You have just closed your eyes and insist there are real gods besides ONE.

Tell me Mike, did all those so-called gods just go extinct like the dinosaurs?  

Where are these so-called gods today?

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (david @ Aug. 13 2013,21:08)

Quote How can you and t8 claim “There is only One True God and yet claim there are other True Gods? –wj The same way I claim that George, my life long friend, who I've known for decades, is my only TRUE friend, despite my other friends not being “false” friends.

OK David

Does that mean that your other friends are not “True Friends”, because you did say “George” is your “ONLY” True Friend, didn't you?

See how the word “ONLY” changes things? Now if you were to say George was your ONLY close friend then that would be different.

The Bible doesn't say God is our ONLY Close God, but it says he is the “ONLY TRUE GOD” and that there are no other gods beside him.

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (david @ Aug. 13 2013,20:59)

Quote But tell me what MAN, magician or not, can turn wooden staffs into snakes? People still do this trick in Egypt.  Much like birds, when you bend back the head of certain snakes, they go into a trance like state and stay rigid until snapped out of it.  Magicians use this principle to “hypnotize” birds, or to bring supposedly dead birds back to life.  Or, to walk around with a stick and throw it to the ground turning it into a snake, supposedly. I know this is not really central to the topic and am annoyed with myself for mentioning it.

Amen!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (david @ Aug. 13 2013,21:11)

Quote What does “Only True God” mean? You and Mike believe there are other true gods, and if Jesus was claiming to be “a god” in John 10:35 why would he have said, “”Only True God”? –wj If you understood what god means, (mighty one/strong one/powerful one, etc) then it would be easy to understand that he is the only one who is “mighty” RELATIVE to all others.  He is ALL mighty.  He is the only truly mighty one (compared to all others)

So David does that mean that everyone who is mighty is “a god”?

I understand that men make them gods, but are they gods just because they may be mighty?

Then our President who is the most powerful man in the world is “a god” according to Mike and t8's theology.

But I dare say they would not call him a god. Or who knows, maybe they will.

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 14 2013,21:08)

Quote (david @ Aug. 13 2013,20:08) Quote How can you and t8 claim “There is only One True God and yet claim there are other True Gods? –wj The same way I claim that George, my life long friend, who I've known for decades, is my only TRUE friend, despite my other friends not being “false” friends. Or the same way I could call Jehovah “the only true Savior” without implying that Jesus and others were “false” saviors.

Really?

What does the word “ONLY” mean Mike?

If he is the “Only True Savour” then that must mean there are no other “true Savours”.

But as concerning God the Bible goes one step further and not only says “ONLY” but also “ONE”..

“ONLY ONE TRUE GOD”… John 17:3

Nevertheless you still haven't produced any Biblical evidence of these so-called gods who performed miraculous acts. The Magicians of Egypt does not work for you. Even David explains about the snakes and their trickery.

WJ

[942767]

Hi Mike:

I know the scriptures state that the magicians were able to duplicate some of the plagues that Moses did through the power of God, but the scriptures state that they did it through “their secret arts”, and the scriptures state that the wonders that Satan is able to do are “false wonders”, and so, I don't know exactly how the magicians were able to duplicate those plagues, but because of what I have already stated I know that what they were able to do were “false wonders”. How can an inanimate god that are no gods at all and are powerless enter into this equation. You might want to read a little about Elijah and the fun he had when he was testing the power of the peoples false gods. There is no human that can do the miracles that God can do.

But as for God rendering judgment against the Egyptian gods, the rulers of Egypt were also made themselves to be gods. And so the judgment would have been against these rulers and not gods that are no gods at all but the imagination of the peoples. How in the world can you believe that false gods can have any power to do anything?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[abe]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 14 2013,18:23)

Quote (abe @ Aug. 13 2013,23:57) Is.45:5   “I am the LORD, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God. I will gird you, though you have not known Me; Speaking of which………….. Isaiah 43:11 KJV I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour. What do you do with a verse like that, Abe?  How do you reconcile those words against verses like this: Nehemiah 9:27 KJV ……..when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies. Obadiah 1:21 KJV And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD's. I really want to know, Abe.

Hi Mike,

Nehemiah 9:27 KJV
thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies.

thou gavest them saviours

thou gavest

Obadiah 1:21 KJV
And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD’s.

Jn.5:22    For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, 23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

1Cor.6:2   Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you*, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?

*Christians

Rom.12:5   so We, who are many, are One body in Christ, and individually members   One of Another.

Peace.

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2013,20:12)

Okay Keith, You didn't answer the last two posts on page 1, but that's okay.  I want to keep this discussion focused anyway. Right now, the first scripture was brought up by Kathi, so let's finish with that scripture. What we do know is that demons were called gods by Moses. And since Moses gave no indication that these demons were “false gods” or “so-called gods”, we have no scriptural reason to believe they were, do we?

We certainly have reason to believe that all other gods besides the Father and Son are false gods, Mike:

Quote

Deuteronomy 32:17 They sacrificed to false gods, which are not God … They sacrificed to false gods, which are not God– gods they had not known, gods that recently appeared, gods your ancestors did not fear. … Psalm 4:2 How long will you people turn my glory into shame? How … … How long will you love delusions and seek false gods ….. Psalm 106:37 They sacrificed their sons and their daughters to … They sacrificed their sons and their daughters to false gods. Jeremiah 13:25 This is your lot, the portion I have decreed for … This is your lot, the portion I have decreed for you,” declares the LORD, “because you have forgotten me and trusted in false gods. … Amos 2:4 This is what the LORD says: “For three sins of Judah … … Because they have rejected the law of the LORD and have not kept his decrees, because they have been led astray by false gods, the gods their ancestors followed … Psalm 97:7 All who worship images are put to shame, those who … … Everyone who worships idols and brags about false gods will be put to shame. All the gods will bow to him. … Jeremiah 16:19 LORD, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in … … refuge in time of distress, to you the nations will come from the ends of the earth and say, “Our ancestors possessed nothing but false gods, worthless idols … Jeremiah 18:15 Yet my people have forgotten me; they burn incense … … But my people have forgotten me; they make offerings to false gods; they made them stumble in their ways, in the ancient roads, and to walk into side roads … Jeremiah 14:22 Do any of the worthless idols of the nations bring … … Are there any among the false gods of the nations that can bring rain? … Are any of the false gods of the nations able to make rain come? Ezekiel 30:13 “'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: “'I will … … This is what the Lord GOD says: I will destroy the idols and put an end to the false gods in Memphis. There will no longer be a prince from the land of Egypt. … 1 John 5:21 Dear children, keep yourselves from idols. … Dear children, guard yourselves from false gods. … My little children, keep yourselves from false gods. … Jonah 2:8 “Those who cling to worthless idols turn away from God's … … Those who worship false gods turn their backs on all God's mercies. … The worshippers of false gods have given up their only hope. … 1 Corinthians 8:4 So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols … … Now about eating food that was offered to false gods: We know that the false gods in this world don't really exist and that no god exists except the one God. … 1 Corinthians 10:7 Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as … … So don't worship false gods as some of them did, as Scripture says, “The people sat down to a feast which turned into an orgy.” … 1 Corinthians 10:14 Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry … … Therefore, my dear friends, get as far away from the worship of false gods as you can. … For this cause, my dear brothers, give no worship to false gods. … Acts 15:29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from … … by keeping away from food sacrificed to false gods, from eating bloody meat, from eating the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual sins. … Acts 15:20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to … … Instead, we should write a letter telling them to keep away from things polluted by false gods, from sexual sins, from eating the meat of strangled animals … Acts 21:25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them … … decision. We told them that they should not eat food sacrificed to false gods, bloody meat, or the meat of strangled animals. They … Psalm 40:4 Blessed is the one who trusts in the LORD, who does not … Blessed is the one who trusts in the LORD, who does not look to the proud, to those who turn aside to false gods. … Psalm 31:6 I hate those who cling to worthless idols; as for me, I … … I hate those who cling to false gods, but I trust the LORD. … I am full of hate for those who go after false gods; but my hope is in the Lord. Jeremiah 7:9 “'Will you steal and murder, commit adultery and … … Will you steal, murder, commit adultery, swear by false gods, burn incense to Baal, follow other gods that you don't know, … Leviticus 19:4 “'Do not turn to idols or make metal gods for … … Do not go after false gods, and do not make metal images of gods for yourselves: I am the Lord your God. … 1 Chronicles 16:26 For all the gods of the nations are idols, but … … For all the gods of the nations are false gods; but the Lord made the heavens. …. … Psalm 138:1 Of David. I will praise you, LORD, with all my heart … … I will make music to praise you in front of the false gods. .. Psalm 96:5 For all the gods of the nations are idols, but the LORD … … For all the gods of the nations are false gods; but the Lord made the heavens. …. … Jeremiah 48:35 In Moab I will put an end to those who make … … “I will put an end to Moab,” says the LORD, “for the people offer sacrifices at the pagan shrines and burn incense to their false gods. … Psalm 135:5 I know that the LORD is great, that our Lord is … … I know that the LORD is great, that our Lord is greater than all the false gods. … 2 Kings 23:24 Furthermore, Josiah got rid of the mediums and … … And all those who had control of spirits, and the wonder-workers, and the images, and the false gods, and all the disgusting things which were seen in the land … Jeremiah 3:24 From our youth shameful gods have consumed the … … Since our youth the false gods have consumed the products of our ancestors' hard work, their sheep and their cattle, their sons and their daughters. … Deuteronomy 32:21 They made me jealous by what is no god and … … They have made me jealous with false gods, enraging me with their worthless gods; so I will make them jealous with a people they do not recognize, with a … Jeremiah 10:14 Everyone is senseless and without knowledge; every … … Everyone is stupid and ignorant. Metalsmiths are put to shame by their idols. Their statues are false [gods]. They can't breathe. … 1 Corinthians 8:7 But not everyone possesses this knowledge. Some … … But not everyone knows this. Some people are so used to worshiping false gods that they believe they are eating food offered to a false god. .. 1 Samuel 12:21 Do not turn away after useless idols. They can do … … And do not go from the right way turning to those false gods in which there is no profit and no salvation, for they are fa lse. … Jeremiah 51:17 “Everyone is senseless and without knowledge; every … … Metalsmiths are put to shame by their idols. Their statues are false [gods]. … … Zechariah 10:2 The idols speak deceitfully, diviners see visions … … For the household gods utter nonsense, and the diviners see lies; they tell false dreams and give empty consolation. Therefore the … Habakkuk 2:18 “Of what value is an idol carved by a craftsman? Or … … maker? and as for the metal image, the false teacher, why does its maker put his faith in it, making false gods without a voice? … Jeremiah 50:2 “Announce and proclaim among the nations, lift up a … … nothing. Say: Babylon is captured; Bel is put to shame; Marduk is devastated; her idols are put to shame; her false gods, devastated. … 2 Chronicles 21:11 He had also built high places on the hills of … … And more than this, he made high places in the mountains of Judah, teaching the people of Jerusalem to go after false gods, and guiding Judah away from the … Jeremiah 3:23 Surely the idolatrous commotion on the hills and … … We know our noisy worship of false gods on the hills and mountains did not help us. We know that the LORD our God is the only one who can deliver Israel. … 1 Corinthians 12:2 You know that when you were pagans, somehow or … … You know that when you were unbelievers, every time you were led to worship false gods you were worshiping gods who couldn't even speak. … Revelation 2:20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You … … let the woman Jezebel say she is a prophet and give false teaching, making my servants go after the desires of the flesh and take food offered to false gods. … 1 Corinthians 6:9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not … … Stop deceiving yourselves! People who continue to commit sexual sins, who worship false gods, those who commit adultery, homosexuals, … 2 Chronicles 21:13 But you have followed the ways of the kings of … … But have gone in the way of the kings of Israel, and have made Judah and the people of Jerusalem go after false gods, as the family of Ahab did: and because … Acts 17:16 While Paul was waiting for them in Athens, he was … … While Paul was waiting for Silas and Timothy in Athens, he saw that the city had statues of false gods everywhere. This upset him. … Ezekiel 20:26 I defiled them through their gifts–the sacrifice of … … I let them dishonor themselves when they sacrificed all their firstborn sons as gifts [to their false gods]. I terrified them so … Ezekiel 14:4 Therefore speak to them and tell them, 'This is what … … the sin which is the cause of his fall, and comes to the prophet; I the Lord will give him an answer by myself in agreement with the number of his false gods; … Leviticus 26:1 “'Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred … … Do not make images of false gods, or put up an image cut in stone or a pillar or any pictured stone in your land, to give worship to it; for I am the Lord your … 1 Corinthians 8:1 Now about food sacrificed to idols: We know that … … Now, concerning food offered to false gods: We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge makes people arrogant, but love builds them up. … Hosea 14:8 Ephraim, what more have I to do with idols? I will … … As for Ephraim, what has he to do with false gods any longer? … Hosea 13:2 Now they sin more and more; they make idols for … … And now their sins are increased; they have made themselves a metal image, false gods from their silver, after their designs, all of them the work of the metal … 1 Thessalonians 1:9 for they themselves report what kind of … … They talk about how you welcomed us when we arrived. They even report how you turned away from false gods to serve the real, living God … 1 Peter 4:3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what … … You were promiscuous, had sinful desires, got drunk, went to wild parties, and took part in the forbidden worship of false gods. … Isaiah 19:1 A prophecy against Egypt: See, the LORD rides on a … … See, the Lord is seated on a quick-moving cloud, and is coming to Egypt: and the false gods of Egypt will be troubled at his coming, and the heart of Egypt … 1 Corinthians 8:13 Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or … … Therefore, if eating food [offered to false gods] causes other believers to lose their faith, I will never eat that kind of food so that I won't make other … Hosea 4:17 Ephraim is joined to idols; leave him alone! … Ephraim is joined to false gods; let him be. …. … 2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement is there between the temple of … … Can God's temple contain false gods? Clearly, we are the temple of the living God. As God said, “I will live and walk among them. … Revelation 2:14 Nevertheless, I have a few things against you … … the teaching of Balaam, by whose suggestion Balak made the children of Israel go out of the right way, taking food which was offered to false gods, and going … 1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I am writing to you that you must not … … not associate with people who call themselves brothers or sisters in the Christian faith but live in sexual sin, are greedy, worship false gods, use abusive … 1 Corinthians 5:10 not at all meaning the people of this world who … … I didn't tell you that you could not have any contact with unbelievers who commit sexual sins, are greedy, are dishonest, or worship false gods. … 2 Kings 21:11 “Manasseh king of Judah has committed these … … Manasseh, king of Judah, has done these disgusting things, doing more evil than all the Amorites before him, and making Judah do evil with his false gods, … 2 Kings 21:21 He followed completely the ways of his father … … He went in all the ways of his father, being a servant and worshipper of the false gods to which his father had been a servant; … 1 Kings 21:26 He behaved in the vilest manner by going after idols … … He did a very disgusting thing in going after false gods, doing all the things the Amorites did, whom the Lord sent out before the children of Israel.) … Ezekiel 14:3 “Son of man, these men have set up idols in their … … Son of man, these men have taken their false gods into their hearts and put before their faces the sin which is the cause of their fall: am I to give ear when … Isaiah 19:3 The Egyptians will lose heart, and I will bring their … … And the spirit of Egypt will be troubled in her, and I will make her decisions without effect: and they will be turning to the false gods, and to those who … Ezekiel 14:5 I will do this to recapture the hearts of the people … … So as to take the children of Israel in the thoughts of their hearts, because they have become strange to me through their false gods. … Ezekiel 14:6 “Therefore say to the people of Israel, 'This is what … … For this cause say to the children of Israel, These are the words of the Lord: Come back and give up your false gods and let your faces be turned from your … Ezekiel 7:20 They took pride in their beautiful jewelry and used … … They were proud of their beautiful jewels and used them to make disgusting and detestable statues [of false gods]. That is why I … Isaiah 57:13 When you cry out for help, let your collection of … … Your false gods will not keep you safe in answer to your cry; but the wind will take them, they will be gone like a breath: but he who puts his hope in me will … Jeremiah 10:8 They are all senseless and foolish; they are taught … … But they are together like beasts and foolish: the teaching of false gods is wood. … Jeremiah 50: 38 A drought on her waters! They will dry up. For it … … A sword is on her waters, drying them up; for it is a land of images, and their minds are fixed on false gods. … Ezekiel 14:7 “'When any of the Israelites or any foreigner … … When any one of the men of Israel, or of those from other lands who are living in Israel, who has become strange to me, and takes his false gods into his heart … Ezekiel 6:9 Then in the nations where they have been carried … … been taken away as prisoners, how I sent punishment on their hearts which were untrue to me, and on their eyes which were turned to their false gods: and they … Deuteronomy 11:16 Be careful, or you will be enticed to turn away … … But take care that your hearts are not turned to false ways so that you become servants and worshippers of other gods; … Jeremiah 5:7 “Why should I forgive you? Your children have … … your children have given me up, taking their oaths by those who are no gods: when I had given them food in full measure, they were false to their wives, taking … Deuteronomy 31:16 And the LORD said to Moses: “You are going to … … And the Lord said to Moses, Now you are going to rest with your fathers; and this people will be false to me, uniting themselves to the strange gods of the … Hosea 3:1 The LORD said to me, “Go, show your love to your wife … … to a woman who has a lover and is false to her husband, even as the Lord has love for the children of Israel, though they are turned to other gods and are … Hosea 4:12 My people consult a wooden idol, and a diviner's rod … … They commit adultery by giving themselves to other gods. … My people get knowledge from their tree, and their rod gives them news; for a false spirit is the … Judges 8:33 No sooner had Gideon died than the Israelites again … … And after the death of Gideon, the children of Israel again went after the gods of Canaan and were false to the Lord, and made Baal-berith their god. … 1 Corinthians 10:19 Do I mean then that food sacrificed to an idol … … I saying that food offered to idols has some significance, or that idols are real gods? … Do I mean that an offering made to a false god is anything, or that a … Jeremiah 3:8 I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce … … not afraid, and she too went and gave herself like a prostitute to other gods. … in writing ending the relation between us, still Judah, her false sister, had no … Hosea 6:10 I have seen a horrible thing in Israel: There Ephraim … … in Ephraim and Israel: My people are defiled by prostituting themselves with other gods! … In Israel I have seen a very evil thing; there false ways are seen in … Hosea 4:10 “They will eat but not have enough; they will engage in … … but not increase in numbers; because they have abandoned the LORD by pursuing other gods. … will have food, but they will not be full; they will be false to me … Jeremiah 13:27 your adulteries and lustful neighings, your … … worship, your shameless prostitution to, and your lustful pursuit of, other gods. … I have seen your disgusting acts, even your false behaviour and your cries of … Acts 7:41 That was the time they made an idol in the form of a … … They offered a sacrifice to that false god and delighted in what they had made. … and offered a sacrifice to the idol and kept rejoicing in the gods which their … Isaiah 57:8 Behind your doors and your doorposts you have put your … … You have left me and climbed into bed with these detestable gods. … back of the doors and on the pillars you have put your sign: for you have been false to me …

[Lightenup]

1 Chronicles 16
25For great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised;
He also is to be feared above all gods.

26For all the gods of the peoples are idols,
But the LORD made the heavens.

27Splendor and majesty are before Him,
Strength and joy are in His place.

28Ascribe to the LORD, O families of the peoples,
Ascribe to the LORD glory and strength.

29Ascribe to the LORD the glory due His name;
Bring an offering, and come before Him;
Worship the LORD in holy array.

30Tremble before Him, all the earth;
Indeed, the world is firmly established, it will not be moved.

31Let the heavens be glad, and let the earth rejoice;
And let them say among the nations, “The LORD reigns.”

32Let the sea roar, and all it contains;
Let the field exult, and all that is in it.

33Then the trees of the forest will sing for joy before the LORD;
For He is coming to judge the earth.

34O give thanks to the LORD, for He is good;
For His lovingkindness is everlasting.

35Then say, “Save us, O God of our salvation,
And gather us and deliver us from the nations,
To give thanks to Your holy name,
And glory in Your praise.”

36Blessed be the LORD, the God of Israel,
From everlasting even to everlasting.
Then all the people said, “Amen,” and praised the LORD.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 15 2013,15:45)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2013,20:12) Okay Keith, You didn't answer the last two posts on page 1, but that's okay.  I want to keep this discussion focused anyway. Right now, the first scripture was brought up by Kathi, so let's finish with that scripture. What we do know is that demons were called gods by Moses. And since Moses gave no indication that these demons were “false gods” or “so-called gods”, we have no scriptural reason to believe they were, do we? We certainly have reason to believe that all other gods besides the Father and Son are false gods, Mike:

Well done Kathi…

[terraricca]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2013,21:40)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2013,20:12) What we do know is that demons were called gods by Moses. So what Mike? Stu says Christians believe in Fairies but does that mean there are real Fairies? This is how many translations read Duet 32:17… They sacrificed to demons, which are not God–  NIV They sacrificed unto demons, which were no God,  ASV They sacrificed to demons, non-gods…CJB They sacrificed to demons that were no gods…ESV They sacrificed to gods that are not real…GNT They sacrificed to demons, [which were] no God,…HNV They offered sacrifices to demons, non-gods…NLT They sacrificed to demons which were no gods…RSV They sacrificed to no-god demons…MSG They sacrificed to demons, which were no God…WEB They sacrifice to demons — no god!…YLT Now look at the context of Deut 32… They made me jealous by what is no god and angered me with their worthless idols. I will make them envious by those who are not a people; I will make them angry by a nation that has no understanding.   Deut 32:21 NIV Even you favorite says… They, for their part, have incited me to jealousy with what is no god; They have vexed me with their vain idols; And I, for my part, shall incite them to jealousy with what is no people; With a stupid nation I shall offend them. NWT Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2013,20:12) And since Moses gave no indication that these demons were “false gods” or “so-called gods”, we have no scriptural reason to believe they were, do we? Sure he does. You have just closed your eyes and insist there are real gods besides ONE. Tell me Mike, did all those so-called gods just go extinct like the dinosaurs?   Where are these so-called gods today? WJ

wj

all those scriptures are taking to Compere God almighty Jehovah against demon ,of cause they are no mach they are no gods ,actually ,their are no god beside God almighty Jehovah the creator LIKE HIM ,HE ALONE STANDS FOREVER

[mikeboll64]

Quote (david @ Aug. 14 2013,20:54)

So mike, who are the gods then, demons? (Bad angels)

Yes David. In Deuteronomy 32:17, the gods they sacrificed to were demons, not God.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2013,09:03)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2013,20:07) I have yet to find a commentator who says “that were no gods”, Keith.  All commentators, including Gill that Kathi just quoted, understand that these demons were gods, but not GOD. No Mike you should say… “Good.  We agree then that these demons WERE gods (to them) who were NOT “God(s)” (at all)”.

Okay Keith,

Here is the context, starting in chapter 31:

16 And the Lord said to Moses: “You are going to rest with your ancestors, and these people will soon prostitute themselves to the foreign gods of the land they are entering.

18 And I will certainly hide my face in that day because of all their wickedness in turning to other gods.

19 Now write down this song and teach it to the Israelites and have them sing it, so that it may be a witness for me against them.

20 …..and when they eat their fill and thrive, they will turn to other gods and worship them……..

21 I know what they are disposed to do, even before I bring them into the land I promised them on oath.

There is nothing in these words to suggest these “other gods” are “false gods” or “man-made idols”.  The difference between us is that Jehovah calls them gods and I believe him.  You don't.

Chapter 32 is the actual song, sang before these things happened, but sang in a past tense form as if they are things that did already happen.

And 32:17 speaks about how these “foreign gods” are really demons.

But if you are unable to use your common sense to see that Moses was saying the new gods to whom they sacrificed were really “demons” in verse 17, then can you at least acknowledge that EVERY Trinitarian commentator quoted on Biblos.com understands it as “they sacrificed to gods who were not God?  

Can you acknowledge the parallel in 1 Corinthians 10:20?

20 No, but the sacrifices of Gentiles are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons.

And can you acknowledge that Paul also called the most powerful demon of all “the god of this world”?

I am well aware that the Trinitarian translators WANT the Bible to literally only speak of one god.  They figure that if they can convince the unwitting that there LITERALLY exists only one god, they can nonsensically claim that the Son OF that one god actually IS that one god he is the Son OF.  After all, he would HAVE TO BE that one god if there truly EXISTED only one, right?

So I am not surprised in the least to see a bunch of Trinitarian translations that NONSENSICALLY render Deut 32:17 as, “to demons, who are not gods, but they ARE gods they had not known, gods that recently appeared, gods your ancestors did not fear.

I mean, how ridiculous is that?  Are they gods, or aren't they?  

But since you are bucking so hard against common sense on this one, we can move on to another.  Don't worry, there are loads of them.

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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 16 2013,08:48)

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 15 2013,15:45) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2013,20:12) Okay Keith, You didn't answer the last two posts on page 1, but that's okay.  I want to keep this discussion focused anyway. Right now, the first scripture was brought up by Kathi, so let's finish with that scripture. What we do know is that demons were called gods by Moses. And since Moses gave no indication that these demons were “false gods” or “so-called gods”, we have no scriptural reason to believe they were, do we? We certainly have reason to believe that all other gods besides the Father and Son are false gods, Mike: Well done Kathi…

This is the scripture and not my opinion:

Quote

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2013,09:03)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2013,20:07) He goes on to say, as indeed there ARE many gods, both in heaven and on earth. No you left out part of it… For though there be that are called gods…. And many translations have it… For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth… NKJV

I have no problem with that part, Keith.  There ARE those who are called gods in scripture, right?  But it is only YOUR unsubstantiated claim that they are “called” gods when they aren't really gods.  Was Solomon “called” a king?  And WAS HE a king?    In most cases, if someone is “called” a thing, they ARE that thing.

Oh, and thank you for pointing out what I was saying in my last post – about how translators feel the need to protect the Bible from itself, and ADD their own words INTO the scriptures.  The Greek doesn't say “so-called gods”, so let's not use that ADDITION as an argument, okay?

Now, on to the part I originally brought up………….. Does Paul go on to say, “as indeed there ARE many gods and many lords”?  YES!  So why don't you believe him, Keith?

Think about it:  He said there are indeed many lords – despite his claim that for us there is only Jesus.  Which part of the claim is LITERAL, and which part is an EMPHATIC statement?

Are there LITERALLY many lords?  Yep.  So that part of his statement is the LITERAL part, right?

Is Jesus Christ LITERALLY the ONLY lord Christians have?  Nope.  So that part of his statement is the EMPHATIC part, right?

Now, go practice this same common sense on the “many gods” versus “one god” part of the verse.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2013,09:40)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 13 2013,20:12) What we do know is that demons were called gods by Moses. So what Mike?

Now add the fact that Moses was only singing the song JEHOVAH taught him. So it was really JEHOVAH who called those demons gods, right?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2013,09:58)

Then our President who is the most powerful man in the world is “a god” according to Mike and t8's theology.

None of these things are “according to Mike and t8's theology”, Keith.  We are only quoting scriptures for you, and asking you why you don't believe those scriptures.

I know that “theos” never refers to a human being in the NT.  It is only applied to one who is thought to be supernatural.

I used to think that “elohim” occasionally did apply to men in the OT, but I'm doubtful about that now.  The more I look, the more I see that “el” and “elohim” are applied only to those who are thought to be supernatural.

So the President of the United States would not be a god – either by “my theology”, or by Biblical standards.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2013,10:24)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 14 2013,21:08) Or the same way I could call Jehovah “the only true Savior” without implying that Jesus and others were “false” saviors. Really? What does the word “ONLY” mean Mike?

The same thing as “there is no savior besides me”. Yet there DID exist other saviors, right Keith?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2013,10:24)

Nevertheless you still haven't produced any Biblical evidence of these so-called gods who performed miraculous acts. The Magicians of Egypt does not work for you. Even David explains about the snakes and their trickery.

So the priests of Pharaoh were really holding snakes in a way which paralyzed them, but Moses and Aaron were fooled and thought they were wooden staffs?  And then the priests dropped them to the ground, giving the ILLUSION that their staffs turned into snakes?      

What ILLUSIONS allowed them to turn water into blood?  Or make frogs appear all over the land out of thin air?

Keith, did Jehovah REALLY make Aaron's staff become a snake?  Did He REALLY turn water into blood?  Did He REALLY make frogs come up and cover the land?

If He did, then all you have to remember is that Pharaoh's priests did the same things.

If theirs was an illusion, then so was Jehovah's, because they did the same things.

Also:
Exodus 12:12
On that same night I will pass through Egypt and strike down every firstborn of both people and animals, and I will bring judgment on all the gods of Egypt. I am the LORD.

Who are these “gods of Egypt”?  How did they all of a sudden get lumped into this “judgment” from Jehovah?

This is what I was telling you earlier.  We are only quoting scriptures and wondering why you don't believe them.

It is obvious that Moses and Aaron performed real signs and wonders by the power of their god, Jehovah.

And since no man can do the same things that Jehovah did, and the gods of Egypt were punished along with all the firstborn of Egypt, it stands to reason that Pharaoh's priests did the same things by the power of THEIR gods.

Face it, there were supernatural beings involved on both sides of the plagues.  Men simply cannot do the things that were done.  Nor could man-made idols.

Please refute my understanding if you can.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 15 2013,15:48)

Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 15 2013,15:45) We certainly have reason to believe that all other gods besides the Father and Son are false gods, Mike: Well done Kathi…

David, are you paying attention here?

Kathi and Keith are about to go through each of the scriptures Kathi listed to see if any of them REALLY say the words “false gods”.

Kathi and Keith, please let me know which of those scriptures REALLY say “false gods” in the Hebrew or Greek text.

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