False gods/idols vrs the one true god

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 22 2013,10:28)

Yes Marty, Men have often made graven images and worshiped them as if they were gods all throughout history. Does the fact remain that Jehovah said He was the ONLY rock when we know there exist other rocks?  YES. Does the fact remain that Jehovah said there was no god besides Him when we know there exist other gods?  YES. Get in line with the scriptures, Marty.  Although there DO INDEED exist many gods, we have as OUR OWN God only the Father who created all things.

Mike:

“So called gods that people worship as gods there exists”, but for me, there is “One God”, my heavenly Father, and I am in line with the scriptures.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

You are SOOOOOOO close, my friend.  

All you have to do now is lose the alteration “so-called” – which isn't actually in any Hebrew or Greek scripture in the entire Bible.

Let's adjust your statement to reflect the fact that you don't want to be using man-made additions to the scriptures:

“There exist gods that people worship as gods”, but for me, there is “One God”, my heavenly Father.

NOW you are aligned with scripture, my friend.  Don't it feel good?  

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 19 2013,19:44)

If you want other gods, you can have them.  You can make any thing or anyone “a god”, but all that is idolatry.

I also wanted to address this comment from before.

We all know from scripture that the Israelites were often called on by Jehovah to destroy the idols of the nations as they were dispossessing them from their land, right?

Question:  Does the fact that those Israelites believed those idols really existed mean those Israelites were “idolaters”?  YES or NO?

In other words, can I believe in the existence of idols without actually being an idolater by worshipping one of those idols?  Of course.  Because the belief in the EXISTENCE of idols is not what makes one an idolater.  It is the WORSHIP OF one or more of those idols that makes one an idolater.

Likewise, the belief in the EXISTENCE of other gods does not make me a polytheist.  It would be the WORSHIP OF one or more of those other gods that would make me a polytheist.

So although I believe the scriptures, and therefore KNOW that other gods indeed exist, I WORSHIP only one God, the Father.  He is the Most High over the other gods, and the God OF all those other ones.

Scripture tells me so.

Anyway, it seems that this whole time, you and I have been almost perfectly in line with each other. The only difference is that you were ADDING the phrases “so-called gods” and “false gods” into the scriptures………. and I wasn't.

Now that we've eliminated those man-made add-ons, we seem to be saying the exact same thing. And that means we are now BOTH aligned with scripture on this matter.

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 22 2013,15:08)

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 19 2013,19:44) If you want other gods, you can have them.  You can make any thing or anyone “a god”, but all that is idolatry. I also wanted to address this comment from before. We all know from scripture that the Israelites were often called on by Jehovah to destroy the idols of the nations as they were dispossessing them from their land, right? Question:  Does the fact that those Israelites believed those idols really existed mean those Israelites were “idolaters”?  YES or NO? In other words, can I believe in the existence of idols without actually being an idolater by worshipping one of those idols?  Of course.  Because the belief in the EXISTENCE of idols is not what makes one an idolater.  It is the WORSHIP OF one or more of those idols that makes one an idolater. Likewise, the belief in the EXISTENCE of other gods does not make me a polytheist.  It would be the WORSHIP OF one or more of those other gods that would make me a polytheist. So although I believe the scriptures, and therefore KNOW that other gods indeed exist, I WORSHIP only one God, the Father.  He is the Most High over the other gods, and the God OF all those other ones. Scripture tells me so. Anyway, it seems that this whole time, you and I have been almost perfectly in line with each other.  The only difference is that you were ADDING the phrases “so-called gods” and “false gods” into the scriptures………. and I wasn't. Now that we've eliminated those man-made add-ons, we seem to be saying the exact same thing.  And that means we are now BOTH aligned with scripture on this matter.

Hi Mike:

I said if you make anyone or anything your god, which you can do, it is idolatry.

Of course, some of those things that the people worshipped existed and do exist, but although the people may worship them as god or gods, they are not god or gods at all. They are powerless.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Wrong. Satan is one of those gods, and he has shown his incredible power countless times throughout scripture. Read Job 1 and 2 again, Marty, and then tell me how “powerless” Satan is.

Please answer my question: Does the fact that the Israelites acknowledged the EXISTENCE of the idols of the nations mean that those Israelites were idolaters? YES or NO?

[942767]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 23 2013,06:50)

Wrong.  Satan is one of those gods, and he has shown his incredible power countless times throughout scripture.  Read Job 1 and 2 again, Marty, and then tell me how “powerless” Satan is. Please answer my question:  Does the fact that the Israelites acknowledged the EXISTENCE of the idols of the nations mean that those Israelites were idolaters?  YES or NO?

Ok., Mike, I am wrong and you are right, Satan has the power to deceive, and he has the power to “kill the body” through men who worship him as “a god”, but he is not “a god” to me.  I don't worship him nor do I obey him.

I have already acknowledged this somewhere in our discussion about other gods.  Satan would have no power except that power that God allows. And, he can do nothing except through those men who obey him.

And no, if the Israelites do not worship the idols as god or gods, they are not idolaters.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 22 2013,14:22)

Satan has the power to deceive, and he has the power to “kill the body” through men who worship him as “a god”, but he is not “a god” to me.  I don't worship him nor do I obey him.

It is not only “through men who worship him” that he has power, Marty.  He can also command fire from heaven and winds powerful enough to destroy lives.  Neither of those things rely on “men who worship him”.

So here is the main point:  I don't worship him as a god either.  But the fact remains that he IS a god – whether or not you and I personally worship him.

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 22 2013,14:22)

And no, if the Israelites do not worship the idols as god or gods, they are not idolaters.

It is the same as “god”, Marty.  These idols were really and truly idols – whether or not the Israelites worshipped them as idols.  Accepting that these idols really exist does not make one an idolater.

Likewise, these gods are really and truly gods – whether or not we worship them as gods.  And accepting that these gods really exist does not make me a polytheist.

I WORSHIP only one God.  So, like you, I can say, “They are not gods to me.”  But the fact they are not gods “to me” doesn't change the fact that they are indeed gods, and they do indeed exist.

There is a big difference between saying they are not gods to me, and saying they are not gods at all.

Scripture calls them gods, and I align myself with scripture.

Anyway, I think we both now realize where the other guy is coming from.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 22 2013,14:22)

Ok., Mike, I am wrong and you are right…………

Now if everybody would just post these words the second they realize they are disagreeing with ME – things would go a lot more smoothly around here! (Just kidding, of course!)

[942767]

Hi Mike:

This is what the scriptures state:

Quote

Idolatry Is Foolishness 9 Those who make an image, all of them are useless, And their precious things shall not profit; They are their own witnesses; They neither see nor know, that they may be ashamed. 10 Who would form a god or mold an image That profits him nothing? 11 Surely all his companions would be ashamed; And the workmen, they are mere men. Let them all be gathered together, Let them stand up; Yet they shall fear, They shall be ashamed together.

Satan has the power to deceive, and cause men to sin against God, and through sin, it may cause winds and other so called natural catastrophes or so called acts of God to come upon the earth, and he has the power to kill the body. Things that men use in order to make money without caring for what they do to the environment. They destroy the planet, and so, through sin these things take place. Satan has no power “god of this world', and is “a god” to those who worship and obey him. I do not, and so, to me there is no God but One, my Heavenly Father.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[4Thomas]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 23 2013,14:17)

Hi Mike: This is what the scriptures state: Quote Idolatry Is Foolishness 9 Those who make an image, all of them are useless, And their precious things shall not profit; They are their own witnesses; They neither see nor know, that they may be ashamed. 10 Who would form a god or mold an image That profits him nothing? 11 Surely all his companions would be ashamed; And the workmen, they are mere men. Let them all be gathered together, Let them stand up; Yet they shall fear, They shall be ashamed together. Satan has the power to deceive, and cause men to sin against God, and through sin, it may cause winds and other so called natural catastrophes or so called acts of God to come upon the earth, and he has the power to kill the body.  Things that men use in order to make money without caring for what they do to the environment.  They destroy the planet, and so, through sin these things take place.  Satan has no power “god of this world', and is “a god” to those who worship and obey him.  I do not, and so, to me there is no God but One, my Heavenly Father. Love in Christ, Marty

Hi Marty,
I agree with you on the part that all other gods are false gods.
What they are to me is fallen angels who all those who practice falsehood, lying, betrayal make them they true gods with satan being their ultimate god, he is called THE God of this world in scripture because he is the father of Lies and the father of all falsehood so he is the ultimate false god.

Yahweh/Jehovah is the only true God.

James 2:19
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that–and shudder.

I understand you would proabaly believe that jesus is THE Son of God, but what does this mean to you?

Is he FROM and OF the Father's essence and nature? Is Jesus your God like Thomas, Peter, Paul call him when they say our God and my God etc…

>Peter calls Jesus *our* God
2 Peter 1:1
1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:
>Paul calls Jesus *our* great God.
Titus 2:13
13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

>John the beloved disciple explains *what* Jesus was before he took on flesh.
John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

Surely you dont think John is revealing Jesus as a false God or an idol?

*Doubting* Thomas who absolutely explicitly calls Jesus his very God, my lord and my God.
John 20:28
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

Ofcourse salvation isn't just about understanding how the Son derives his nature/essence From and Of the Father but its also about how Jesus became the Christ and humbled himself to take on flesh so he could die for your and all our sins.
So we must understand and believe in the one true God and the Christ (Immanuel)

The one Tur God isn't static in solitude but he is an eternal reaction of displayed in glory and in unity.

The source of the entire devinity comes from the Father alone and is expressed by the Fathers eternal and almighty power revealed by the generation of his one and only SON from his nature. Known clearly by the title THE Son of God.

See God isn't static to me, scripture reveals God as Light and also reveals God as Love, these descriptions are **REACTIONS**

Light can not exist without being expressed this is why the creed says “light from light” true God from true God: and reveals them as one form the one nature from and OF the Father.

NOT addition 1+1 but a muliplication and expression 1 X 1 = 1

How can you have an eternal Almighty God and Father of NOTHING? Please understand i dont believe Jesus is another Father but instead the Glory of the Father's power and love. Like Adam and Eve, same nature from the same source, revaled in scripture as ONE and one nature and essence.

H20 can be
ICE (SNOW, CLOUD)
then expressed as Water Rain
So i think once we relaease what it means to be the THE one and ONLY Son of God, the expressed image then we can understand why Jesus says he is one with the Father and that when you see him who is the Father and why they can both be the Lord of Lords and be called our Great God and my God etc.

What is Jesus to you, Marty?

A man alone
An arch angel
or true God and true Man

Interested to know as you speak from the heart which is great to see.

Please show me any condemnation for calling Jesus my God and worshipping him, the disclples held his feet and then worshipped him.

Love and Life in the name of Jesus
Daniel

[terraricca]

Quote (4Thomas @ Sep. 23 2013,13:48)

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 23 2013,14:17) Hi Mike: This is what the scriptures state: Quote Idolatry Is Foolishness 9 Those who make an image, all of them are useless, And their precious things shall not profit; They are their own witnesses; They neither see nor know, that they may be ashamed. 10 Who would form a god or mold an image That profits him nothing? 11 Surely all his companions would be ashamed; And the workmen, they are mere men. Let them all be gathered together, Let them stand up; Yet they shall fear, They shall be ashamed together. Satan has the power to deceive, and cause men to sin against God, and through sin, it may cause winds and other so called natural catastrophes or so called acts of God to come upon the earth, and he has the power to kill the body.  Things that men use in order to make money without caring for what they do to the environment.  They destroy the planet, and so, through sin these things take place.  Satan has no power “god of this world', and is “a god” to those who worship and obey him.  I do not, and so, to me there is no God but One, my Heavenly Father. Love in Christ, Marty Hi Marty, I agree with you on the part that all other gods are false gods. What they are to me is fallen angels who all those who practice falsehood, lying, betrayal make them they true gods with satan being their ultimate god, he is called THE God of this world in scripture because he is the father of Lies and the father of all falsehood so he is the ultimate false god. Yahweh/Jehovah is the only true God. James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that–and shudder. I understand you would proabaly believe that jesus is THE Son of God, but what does this mean to you? Is he FROM and OF the Father's essence and nature? Is Jesus your God like Thomas, Peter, Paul call him when they say our God and my God etc… >Peter calls Jesus *our* God 2 Peter 1:1 1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours: >Paul calls Jesus *our* great God. Titus 2:13 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. >John the beloved disciple explains *what* Jesus was before he took on flesh. John 1:1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Surely you dont think John is revealing Jesus as a false God or an idol? *Doubting* Thomas who absolutely explicitly calls Jesus his very God, my lord and my God. John 20:28 28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” Ofcourse salvation isn't just about understanding how the Son derives his nature/essence From and Of the Father but its also about how Jesus became the Christ and humbled himself to take on flesh so he could die for your and all our sins. So we must understand and believe in the one true God and the Christ (Immanuel) The one Tur God isn't static in solitude but he is an eternal reaction of displayed in glory and in unity. The source of the entire devinity comes from the Father alone and is expressed by the Fathers eternal and almighty power revealed by the generation of his one and only SON from his nature. Known clearly by the title THE Son of God. See God isn't static to me, scripture reveals God as Light and also reveals God as Love, these descriptions are **REACTIONS** Light can not exist without being expressed this is why the creed says “light from light” true God from true God: and reveals them as one form the one nature from and OF the Father. NOT addition 1+1 but a muliplication and expression 1 X 1 = 1 How can you have an eternal Almighty God and Father of NOTHING? Please understand i dont believe Jesus is another Father but instead the Glory of the Father's power and love. Like Adam and Eve, same nature from the same source, revaled in scripture as ONE and one nature and essence. H20 can be ICE (SNOW, CLOUD) then expressed as Water Rain So i think once we relaease what it means to be the THE one and ONLY Son of God, the expressed image then we can understand why Jesus says he is one with the Father and that when you see him who is the Father and why they can both be the Lord of Lords and be called our Great God and my God etc. What is Jesus to you, Marty? A man alone An arch angel or true God and true Man Interested to know as you speak from the heart which is great to see. Please show me any condemnation for calling Jesus my God and worshipping him, the disclples held his feet and then worshipped him. Love and Life in the name of Jesus Daniel

Quote

13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

you have a deluded mind;

Christ himself says that he can not do anything without his father ;and so the true saviour is GOD THE FATHER ;THAT AS USED HIS SON TO SAVE MAN,

BUT YOUR MIND IS ORIENTED TO DECEIT AND SO DO NOT UNDERSTAND TRUTH ,IN SCRIPTURES ,

IF YOU COULD YOU WOULD CHANGE THE SCRIPTURES TO FIT YOUR DECEIT ,

[942767]

\

Quote (4Thomas @ Sep. 23 2013,18:48)

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 23 2013,14:17) Hi Mike: This is what the scriptures state: Quote Idolatry Is Foolishness 9 Those who make an image, all of them are useless, And their precious things shall not profit; They are their own witnesses; They neither see nor know, that they may be ashamed. 10 Who would form a god or mold an image That profits him nothing? 11 Surely all his companions would be ashamed; And the workmen, they are mere men. Let them all be gathered together, Let them stand up; Yet they shall fear, They shall be ashamed together. Satan has the power to deceive, and cause men to sin against God, and through sin, it may cause winds and other so called natural catastrophes or so called acts of God to come upon the earth, and he has the power to kill the body.  Things that men use in order to make money without caring for what they do to the environment.  They destroy the planet, and so, through sin these things take place.  Satan has no power “god of this world', and is “a god” to those who worship and obey him.  I do not, and so, to me there is no God but One, my Heavenly Father. Love in Christ, Marty Hi Marty, I agree with you on the part that all other gods are false gods. What they are to me is fallen angels who all those who practice falsehood, lying, betrayal make them they true gods with satan being their ultimate god, he is called THE God of this world in scripture because he is the father of Lies and the father of all falsehood so he is the ultimate false god. Yahweh/Jehovah is the only true God. James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that–and shudder. I understand you would proabaly believe that jesus is THE Son of God, but what does this mean to you? Is he FROM and OF the Father's essence and nature? Is Jesus your God like Thomas, Peter, Paul call him when they say our God and my God etc… >Peter calls Jesus *our* God 2 Peter 1:1 1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours: >Paul calls Jesus *our* great God. Titus 2:13 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. >John the beloved disciple explains *what* Jesus was before he took on flesh. John 1:1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Surely you dont think John is revealing Jesus as a false God or an idol? *Doubting* Thomas who absolutely explicitly calls Jesus his very God, my lord and my God. John 20:28 28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” Ofcourse salvation isn't just about understanding how the Son derives his nature/essence From and Of the Father but its also about how Jesus became the Christ and humbled himself to take on flesh so he could die for your and all our sins. So we must understand and believe in the one true God and the Christ (Immanuel) The one Tur God isn't static in solitude but he is an eternal reaction of displayed in glory and in unity. The source of the entire devinity comes from the Father alone and is expressed by the Fathers eternal and almighty power revealed by the generation of his one and only SON from his nature. Known clearly by the title THE Son of God. See God isn't static to me, scripture reveals God as Light and also reveals God as Love, these descriptions are **REACTIONS** Light can not exist without being expressed this is why the creed says “light from light” true God from true God: and reveals them as one form the one nature from and OF the Father. NOT addition 1+1 but a muliplication and expression 1 X 1 = 1 How can you have an eternal Almighty God and Father of NOTHING? Please understand i dont believe Jesus is another Father but instead the Glory of the Father's power and love. Like Adam and Eve, same nature from the same source, revaled in scripture as ONE and one nature and essence. H20 can be ICE (SNOW, CLOUD) then expressed as Water Rain So i think once we relaease what it means to be the THE one and ONLY Son of God, the expressed image then we can understand why Jesus says he is one with the Father and that when you see him who is the Father and why they can both be the Lord of Lords and be called our Great God and my God etc. What is Jesus to you, Marty? A man alone An arch angel or true God and true Man Interested to know as you speak from the heart which is great to see. Please show me any condemnation for calling Jesus my God and worshipping him, the disclples held his feet and then worshipped him. Love and Life in the name of Jesus Daniel

Hi Daniel:

My heavenly Father revealed through the Apostle Peter the Identity of Jesus:

Quote

Matthew 16 13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Cæsarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 4 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?  16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.  17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

And I have confessed Jesus, God's Son and His Christ as my Lord, and I am submitted to God through him, but no, he himself stated in the following scripture that he was returning to his God an my God to to his Father and my Father.

Quote

10 Then the disciples went away again unto their own home.  11 But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,  12 and seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.  13 And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him. 14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.  15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.  16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which i s to say, Master. 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God

And this scripture also states that he is not God:

Quote

1 Timothy 2 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 2 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;  2 for kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.  3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;  4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;  6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.  7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. [/QUOTE[ John 17 Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV) 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:  2 as thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.  4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.  5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Yes, Daniel, he did say that “he and the Father were one”, but they are two different souls or persons, and are one in the spirit, and that is what he meant by this.  Here is scripture to support this statement:

Quote

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.  16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.  17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.  18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.  19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;  21 that they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.  22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:  23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

And relative to worship, Jesus stated the following when speaking to the Samaritan woman:

Quote

John  4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.  20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.  21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.  22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.  23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.  24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

To worship anything or anyone, as God, including Jesus, as great as he is, is idolatry.  

I hope that this answers your questions, but if not please ask, I will do my best to tell you what I believe to be the truth.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[4Thomas]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 23 2013,22:12)

Quote (4Thomas @ Sep. 23 2013,13:48) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 23 2013,14:17) Hi Mike: This is what the scriptures state: Quote Idolatry Is Foolishness 9 Those who make an image, all of them are useless, And their precious things shall not profit; They are their own witnesses; They neither see nor know, that they may be ashamed. 10 Who would form a god or mold an image That profits him nothing? 11 Surely all his companions would be ashamed; And the workmen, they are mere men. Let them all be gathered together, Let them stand up; Yet they shall fear, They shall be ashamed together. Satan has the power to deceive, and cause men to sin against God, and through sin, it may cause winds and other so called natural catastrophes or so called acts of God to come upon the earth, and he has the power to kill the body.  Things that men use in order to make money without caring for what they do to the environment.  They destroy the planet, and so, through sin these things take place.  Satan has no power “god of this world', and is “a god” to those who worship and obey him.  I do not, and so, to me there is no God but One, my Heavenly Father. Love in Christ, Marty Hi Marty, I agree with you on the part that all other gods are false gods. What they are to me is fallen angels who all those who practice falsehood, lying, betrayal make them they true gods with satan being their ultimate god, he is called THE God of this world in scripture because he is the father of Lies and the father of all falsehood so he is the ultimate false god. Yahweh/Jehovah is the only true God. James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that–and shudder. I understand you would proabaly believe that jesus is THE Son of God, but what does this mean to you? Is he FROM and OF the Father's essence and nature? Is Jesus your God like Thomas, Peter, Paul call him when they say our God and my God etc… >Peter calls Jesus *our* God 2 Peter 1:1 1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours: >Paul calls Jesus *our* great God. Titus 2:13 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. >John the beloved disciple explains *what* Jesus was before he took on flesh. John 1:1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Surely you dont think John is revealing Jesus as a false God or an idol? *Doubting* Thomas who absolutely explicitly calls Jesus his very God, my lord and my God. John 20:28 28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” Ofcourse salvation isn't just about understanding how the Son derives his nature/essence From and Of the Father but its also about how Jesus became the Christ and humbled himself to take on flesh so he could die for your and all our sins. So we must understand and believe in the one true God and the Christ (Immanuel) The one Tur God isn't static in solitude but he is an eternal reaction of displayed in glory and in unity. The source of the entire devinity comes from the Father alone and is expressed by the Fathers eternal and almighty power revealed by the generation of his one and only SON from his nature. Known clearly by the title THE Son of God. See God isn't static to me, scripture reveals God as Light and also reveals God as Love, these descriptions are **REACTIONS** Light can not exist without being expressed this is why the creed says “light from light” true God from true God: and reveals them as one form the one nature from and OF the Father. NOT addition 1+1 but a muliplication and expression 1 X 1 = 1 How can you have an eternal Almighty God and Father of NOTHING? Please understand i dont believe Jesus is another Father but instead the Glory of the Father's power and love. Like Adam and Eve, same nature from the same source, revaled in scripture as ONE and one nature and essence. H20 can be ICE (SNOW, CLOUD) then expressed as Water Rain So i think once we relaease what it means to be the THE one and ONLY Son of God, the expressed image then we can understand why Jesus says he is one with the Father and that when you see him who is the Father and why they can both be the Lord of Lords and be called our Great God and my God etc. What is Jesus to you, Marty? A man alone An arch angel or true God and true Man Interested to know as you speak from the heart which is great to see. Please show me any condemnation for calling Jesus my God and worshipping him, the disclples held his feet and then worshipped him. Love and Life in the name of Jesus Daniel Quote 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. you have a deluded mind; Christ himself says that he can not do anything without his father ;and so the true saviour is GOD THE FATHER ;THAT AS USED HIS SON TO SAVE MAN, BUT YOUR MIND IS ORIENTED TO DECEIT AND SO DO NOT UNDERSTAND TRUTH ,IN SCRIPTURES , IF YOU COULD YOU WOULD CHANGE THE SCRIPTURES TO FIT YOUR DECEIT ,

Wow, i see the fruit of your beliefts. Do you see the anger in yourself or do you feel it?

You get angry because you dont have any scripture to deny DOUBTING THOMAS great releation

Thomas said to HIM my Lord and my God

I will follow the great disciples, Thomas, Paul and Peter who call Jesus our God and my God.

T, one question to show me YOUR TRUTH, please all you need to do answer the most fundermential question of Jesus

What is Jesus?
A man alone
An arch angel
true God FROM and OF the Father with being true MAN

If you cant answer this fundermential basic question, what on earth are you trying to teach?

Those who deny the Son he will deny them before his Father in heaven.

Once you understand what it means for Jesus to be the ONE AND ONLY true Son in essence/nature, then you will be in the light and see the glory of god in the face of Jesus.

I care for you T thats why I'm taking the time to reply back, i'm convicted in my heart to do so.

Life in the one and only Son.
True God from true God, the expressed image of the Father
Daniel

[4Thomas]

Thanks Marty,

Nice to see your views and I appreciate you replying to me.
I believe Jesus pre-existed and then humbled himself to become a man.

Scripture reveals the two natures/essence of Jesus

1: The word was with God and the word was God. He with the father as the expressed image and one and only true Son who derives his nature from the Father alone
2: The word became flesh   > we both agree, amen!

Question is this scripture speaking of Jesus nature in (1) God or (2) man

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus;  6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus CHRIST, whom thou hast sent.  4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.  5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

As you know Christ wasn’t Jesus last name when it says Jesus Christ it says Jesus Messiah, which is Jesus THE CHRIST [the Messiah/man] because Jesus the Word became flesh to become the messiah. No good understanding the one true God if you don’t believe the expressed image Jehovah the Son (numbers 12.8) became flesh. When you see the Son you see the Father, “O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had WITH thee before the world was.”

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and YOUR Father; and to my God, and your God

I’m sure You understand how we became adopted Sons of God.

How can we call God the Father our Father, is it without Jesus taking flesh???

Jesus shared in our nature/essence so his Father became his God SO THAT our God could became our FATHER.
Jesus said… ,I ascend unto MY Father, and YOUR Father; and to my God, and your God
Yes I truly believe Jesus is the Son of God FROM and OF the Father but I believe he like all true Sons are have the same nature as their Father’s.

So what is Jesus to you before the word became flesh

1: a man alone
2: an arch angel
3: true God FROM and OF his Father and true Man FROM and OF the mankind

Marty, I dont believe Jesus is the Father or another Father
but instead the ONE AND ONLY true Son who derives his nature/essence from the Father ALONE.

Love and Life in the name of Jesus
Daniel

[terraricca]

Quote

Wow, i see the fruit of your beliefts. Do you see the anger in yourself or do you feel it?

NO, BUT I CAN SEE YOUR DECEIT

[942767]

Quote (4Thomas @ Sep. 24 2013,11:33)

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 23 2013,22:12) Quote (4Thomas @ Sep. 23 2013,13:48) Quote (942767 @ Sep. 23 2013,14:17) Hi Mike: This is what the scriptures state: Quote Idolatry Is Foolishness 9 Those who make an image, all of them are useless, And their precious things shall not profit; They are their own witnesses; They neither see nor know, that they may be ashamed. 10 Who would form a god or mold an image That profits him nothing? 11 Surely all his companions would be ashamed; And the workmen, they are mere men. Let them all be gathered together, Let them stand up; Yet they shall fear, They shall be ashamed together. Satan has the power to deceive, and cause men to sin against God, and through sin, it may cause winds and other so called natural catastrophes or so called acts of God to come upon the earth, and he has the power to kill the body.  Things that men use in order to make money without caring for what they do to the environment.  They destroy the planet, and so, through sin these things take place.  Satan has no power “god of this world', and is “a god” to those who worship and obey him.  I do not, and so, to me there is no God but One, my Heavenly Father. Love in Christ, Marty Hi Marty, I agree with you on the part that all other gods are false gods. What they are to me is fallen angels who all those who practice falsehood, lying, betrayal make them they true gods with satan being their ultimate god, he is called THE God of this world in scripture because he is the father of Lies and the father of all falsehood so he is the ultimate false god. Yahweh/Jehovah is the only true God. James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that–and shudder. I understand you would proabaly believe that jesus is THE Son of God, but what does this mean to you? Is he FROM and OF the Father's essence and nature? Is Jesus your God like Thomas, Peter, Paul call him when they say our God and my God etc… >Peter calls Jesus *our* God 2 Peter 1:1 1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours: >Paul calls Jesus *our* great God. Titus 2:13 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. >John the beloved disciple explains *what* Jesus was before he took on flesh. John 1:1 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God Surely you dont think John is revealing Jesus as a false God or an idol? *Doubting* Thomas who absolutely explicitly calls Jesus his very God, my lord and my God. John 20:28 28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” Ofcourse salvation isn't just about understanding how the Son derives his nature/essence From and Of the Father but its also about how Jesus became the Christ and humbled himself to take on flesh so he could die for your and all our sins. So we must understand and believe in the one true God and the Christ (Immanuel) The one Tur God isn't static in solitude but he is an eternal reaction of displayed in glory and in unity. The source of the entire devinity comes from the Father alone and is expressed by the Fathers eternal and almighty power revealed by the generation of his one and only SON from his nature. Known clearly by the title THE Son of God. See God isn't static to me, scripture reveals God as Light and also reveals God as Love, these descriptions are **REACTIONS** Light can not exist without being expressed this is why the creed says “light from light” true God from true God: and reveals them as one form the one nature from and OF the Father. NOT addition 1+1 but a muliplication and expression 1 X 1 = 1 How can you have an eternal Almighty God and Father of NOTHING? Please understand i dont believe Jesus is another Father but instead the Glory of the Father's power and love. Like Adam and Eve, same nature from the same source, revaled in scripture as ONE and one nature and essence. H20 can be ICE (SNOW, CLOUD) then expressed as Water Rain So i think once we relaease what it means to be the THE one and ONLY Son of God, the expressed image then we can understand why Jesus says he is one with the Father and that when you see him who is the Father and why they can both be the Lord of Lords and be called our Great God and my God etc. What is Jesus to you, Marty? A man alone An arch angel or true God and true Man Interested to know as you speak from the heart which is great to see. Please show me any condemnation for calling Jesus my God and worshipping him, the disclples held his feet and then worshipped him. Love and Life in the name of Jesus Daniel Quote 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. you have a deluded mind; Christ himself says that he can not do anything without his father ;and so the true saviour is GOD THE FATHER ;THAT AS USED HIS SON TO SAVE MAN, BUT YOUR MIND IS ORIENTED TO DECEIT AND SO DO NOT UNDERSTAND TRUTH ,IN SCRIPTURES , IF YOU COULD YOU WOULD CHANGE THE SCRIPTURES TO FIT YOUR DECEIT , Wow, i see the fruit of your beliefts. Do you see the anger in yourself or do you feel it? You get angry because you dont have any scripture to deny DOUBTING THOMAS great releation Thomas said to HIM my Lord and my God I will follow the great disciples, Thomas, Paul and Peter who call Jesus our God and my God. T, one question to show me YOUR TRUTH, please all you need to do answer the most fundermential question of Jesus What is Jesus? A man alone An arch angel true God FROM and OF the Father with being true MAN If you cant answer this fundermential basic question, what on earth are you trying to teach? Those who deny the Son he will deny them before his Father in heaven. Once you understand what it means for Jesus to be the ONE AND ONLY true Son in essence/nature, then you will be in the light and see the glory of god in the face of Jesus. I care for you T thats why I'm taking the time to reply back, i'm convicted in my heart to do so. Life in the one and only Son. True God from true God, the expressed image of the Father Daniel

Hi Daniel:

I appreciate your caring for me, and taking the time to reply, but no, I am not angry.

I have given you scripture to support my understanding of the scriptures.

I am concerned with teaching the truth instead of teaching false doctrines, like “the trinity doctrine” or teaching that Jesus is God, because it will keep Jews and Muslims from coming to God and being saved.

They and I, and Jesus know and teach that there is “Only One God”.

You cannot just take a statement by the Apostle Thomas, when he calls Jesus “his Lord and his God “, and make a doctrine out of this over all the other scriptures which teach that Jesus is a man, and that there is only One God.

Hebrew 1 states that Jesus is “the express image of God's person”, and so, he is God in this sense in that through his life he has manifested God's character to humanity. But the scriptures state that he is the Son of God, and this is another scripture which you might study:

Quote

1 Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

Daniel

Quote

T, one question to show me YOUR TRUTH, please all you need to do answer the most fundermential question of Jesus What is Jesus? A man alone An arch angel true God FROM and OF the Father with being true MAN

I AGREE ,BUT ONLY IF YOU AGREE TO ALSO SPELL OUT WHAT JESUS CHRIST HIS NOT ,AGREED

[942767]

Quote (4Thomas @ Sep. 24 2013,12:14)

Thanks Marty, Nice to see your views and I appreciate you replying to me. I believe Jesus pre-existed and then humbled himself to become a man. Scripture reveals the two natures/essence of Jesus 1: The word was with God and the word was God. He with the father as the expressed image and one and only true Son who derives his nature from the Father alone 2: The word became flesh   > we both agree, amen! Question is this scripture speaking of Jesus nature in (1) God or (2) man 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus;  6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus CHRIST, whom thou hast sent.  4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.  5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. As you know Christ wasn’t Jesus last name when it says Jesus Christ it says Jesus Messiah, which is Jesus THE CHRIST [the Messiah/man] because Jesus the Word became flesh to become the messiah. No good understanding the one true God if you don’t believe the expressed image Jehovah the Son (numbers 12.8) became flesh. When you see the Son you see the Father, “O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had WITH thee before the world was.” 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and YOUR Father; and to my God, and your God I’m sure You understand how we became adopted Sons of God. How can we call God the Father our Father, is it without Jesus taking flesh??? Jesus shared in our nature/essence so his Father became his God SO THAT our God could became our FATHER. Jesus said… ,I ascend unto MY Father, and YOUR Father; and to my God, and your God Yes I truly believe Jesus is the Son of God FROM and OF the Father but I believe he like all true Sons are have the same nature as their Father’s. So what is Jesus to you before the word became flesh 1: a man alone 2: an arch angel 3: true God FROM and OF his Father and true Man FROM and OF the mankind Marty, I dont believe Jesus is the Father or another Father but instead the ONE AND ONLY true Son who derives his nature/essence from the Father ALONE. Love and Life in the name of Jesus Daniel

Hi Daniel:

I do not believe that Jesus pre-existed his birth into this world as a sentient person, but he was foreordained to be conceived of the virgin Mary at a specific point in time, and born into this world to fulfill the plan of God for humanity.

Here is scripture for my understanding:

Quote

1Pe 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: 1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers 1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

In John 1 the Greek word translated “the Word” is “Logos” which means “the sayings of God” and embodies a plan (God's plan for humanity).

The Logos or Word pertains to Jesus, but is not him as a pre-existent being.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[terraricca]

daniel

Quote

I agree with you on the part that all other gods are false gods.

this can only be true by comparison ;

otherwise it would mean that there are NO MIGHTY ONES IN ALL OF CREATION ; and so every ;king,powers,authority ect NEVER EXISTED this is a false statement because we all know that ;THE GOD OF ISRAEL HIS THE GOD OF GODS

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Sep. 22 2013,21:17)

…….to me there is no God but One, my Heavenly Father.

Why are you still talking?  I though we resolved this thing already.  

For me there is also only one God, the Father.  

The only difference between us is that you deny the scriptures that speak of the many other gods…….. and I don't deny them.  

You INVENT phrases that aren't in any scripture, like “so-called gods” and “false gods”………… and I don't.

You have to pick and choose which part of 1 Cor 8:5-6 you will believe, and which part you will dismiss out of hand………..  and I don't.  I can believe ALL of those words.

You have to imagine definitions such as “god-like” when you read verses like Isaiah 9:6 and Hebrews 1:8………… and I don't.  I figure that if Jehovah Himself calls Jesus, Satan, and others “gods”, then who am I to argue with Him.

But in the end, you and I both PERSONALLY have only one God, the Father.  So let's just leave it at that.

[Author]

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