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Quote (942767 @ April 08 2008,13:19) Quote (seek and you will find @ April 08 2008,09:02) Nick! Then were did Satan originated? He was long in the world before John came on the scene. God did not create bad or Satan. Just like we have a free will, the Angels do too. Time wise Satan had to fall from heaven before the world was in order to become Satan. Was He not in Paradise and tempted Adam and Eve? You are right the Bible does not give us a time, but we have to use common sense. We do know that there is evil in this world, so if the time will come and it will that people will say there is no Satan and He never existed. Peace and Love Mrs.
Hi Mrs:Quote Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. The origin of Satan is the serpent who tempted EVE in the Garden of Eden. The devil is a spirit. The devil the origin of evil or disobedience to God's commandments. The scripture states that by one man Adam sin or the spirit of disobedience to God entered into the world. It is that spirit of evil who is Satan or the devil.
Hi 94,
So in your view we see the origin of Satan in Genesis as a rebellious serpent?
I doubt it myself.
I would suggest he was already camping on earth and took the opportunity as it came along to seduce man.Quote (seek and you will find @ April 08 2008,13:35) Quote (942767 @ April 08 2008,13:19) Quote (seek and you will find @ April 08 2008,09:02) Nick! Then were did Satan originated? He was long in the world before John came on the scene. God did not create bad or Satan. Just like we have a free will, the Angels do too. Time wise Satan had to fall from heaven before the world was in order to become Satan. Was He not in Paradise and tempted Adam and Eve? You are right the Bible does not give us a time, but we have to use common sense. We do know that there is evil in this world, so if the time will come and it will that people will say there is no Satan and He never existed. Peace and Love Mrs.
Hi Mrs:Quote Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. The origin of Satan is the serpent who tempted EVE in the Garden of Eden. The devil is a spirit. The devil the origin of evil or disobedience to God's commandments. The scripture states that by one man Adam sin or the spirit of disobedience to God entered into the world. It is that spirit of evil who is Satan or the devil.
942767 If you look on page 26, I wrote the same scripture. I do understand what Satan is. Thank you for your input, tho.Peace and Love Mrs.
Hi Mrs:You did quote the same scripture, but I have given you my understanding of the origin of Satan.
Why would God toss the devil out of literal heaven into the earth? Is there not enough trouble down here already?
In Isaiah Lucifer refers to Nebuchaddnezzar. He exalted himself so that in that position he commanded obedience from all, but God brought him down from heaven(or that exalted state).
Quote Dan 4:32 And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling [shall be] with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will. Dan 4:33 The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' [feathers], and his nails like birds' [claws].
Dan 4:34 ¶ And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion [is] an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom [is] from generation to generation:
Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth [are] reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and [among] the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
Dan 4:36 ¶ At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.
Dan 4:37 Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works [are] truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.
Yes 94,
He will.
Yes literally.
Vengeance time
Access rights denied.
No more harrassment from on high
Rev12
7And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,8And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
ps,
Poor old Job was put through Satan's mill and Peter too was lined up for some serious testing which found flaws.
That is why we pray
Mt6
13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 08 2008,13:43) Quote (942767 @ April 08 2008,13:19) Quote (seek and you will find @ April 08 2008,09:02) Nick! Then were did Satan originated? He was long in the world before John came on the scene. God did not create bad or Satan. Just like we have a free will, the Angels do too. Time wise Satan had to fall from heaven before the world was in order to become Satan. Was He not in Paradise and tempted Adam and Eve? You are right the Bible does not give us a time, but we have to use common sense. We do know that there is evil in this world, so if the time will come and it will that people will say there is no Satan and He never existed. Peace and Love Mrs.
Hi Mrs:Quote Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. The origin of Satan is the serpent who tempted EVE in the Garden of Eden. The devil is a spirit. The devil the origin of evil or disobedience to God's commandments. The scripture states that by one man Adam sin or the spirit of disobedience to God entered into the world. It is that spirit of evil who is Satan or the devil.
Hi 94,
So in your view we see the origin of Satan in Genesis as a rebellious serpent?
I doubt it myself.
I would suggest he was already camping on earth and took the opportunity as it came along to seduce man.
Hi Nick:Genesis is where God shows us the serpent. Satan is the tempter. It is that spirit that Eve and Adam obeyed. But how many literal snakes do we see going around tempting men to do evil in this day.
It is that spirit dwelling within men who tempts men to do evil.
Quote Pro 1:10 My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not. I gave you my understanding. You are free to give me yours.
Hi94,
Yes we are first shown satan in a literal serpent in genesis and serpents suffered a curse since then.
Yes Adam chose service to Satan over service to God and Satan became for all, father god.
Yes satan rules through his kingdom of darkness alive in the hearts of natural men.942767 Do you ever wonder why this earth was void and dark in Genesis? Do you really believe that the Angels shouted for joy over a dark and void planet? I don't think so. I gave my understanding about it in my previous post.
Peace and Love Mrs.Quote (Jodi @ April 08 2008,05:47) Question to those who believe Satan fell before Yah created mankind- Do you believe that Satan has been restricted to earth or is he able to go to and from heaven?
Greetings Jodi….Lucifers' handiwork is visible to see throughout the universe…..there are millions of planets that are in the same state earth was before creation,void and without life….Greetings Nick…..I would think lucifer was very much involved in the angelic war that rendered the universe void ….
Quote Greetings Jodi….Lucifers' handiwork is visible to see throughout the universe…..there are millions of planets that are in the same state earth was before creation,void and without life…. Are you saying there was life on all these planets and Satan did away with this?
My goal is to bring doubt into the mainstream Christian belief that sinful angels have power and influence over the earth and mankind.
Almost all of Christianity teaches the story of a fallen angel. This fallen angel’s name is Lucifer, and Lucifer was a great and beautiful creature who had the privilege and honor of dwelling in Yah’s presence in His Holy Habitation. Unfortunately Lucifer becomes jealous and evil, and so delirious that he believes he can rise above his Creator. People say that eternal torture in hell is one of the biggest lies ever told in Christendom. I think the story of Lucifer is right up there as well. One thing that really bothers me about this story is I believe it dishonors the character of Yah and takes away His credibility. If we are to believe that earth is to be as it is in Yah’s Holy Habitation, and Yah’s promise is to rid sin, pain and suffering from earth, what are we to make of angels being able to not only sin in Yah’s presence and in His Holy Habitation, but to also be able to make war? If Yah’s Holy Habitation was not good enough for Lucifer and 1/3 of all the angels, why should I believe that it’s going to be good enough for me? What good is immortality? Mankind is going through great lengths of pain, suffering, testing and learning in preparation for a new earth. Yeshua in his second coming is going to establish a peaceful and righteous earth, ridding sin and death, so that Yah can finally come and be in the presence of His creation. We are to believe however, from the story of Lucifer, that angels are allowed to sin and make war in His Holy Habitation?
Matthew 6:9 “Pray then in this way: Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. 10 Your kingdom come. Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
Ps 118:20 –This is the gate to Jehovah, The righteous enter into it.
Ps 140:13 -Only — the righteous give thanks to Thy name, The upright do dwell with Thy presence!
Ps 89:14 – Righteousness and judgment [Are] the fixed place of Thy throne, Kindness and truth go before Thy face.
Isa 63:15 Look attentively from the heavens, And see from Thy holy and beauteous habitation, Where [is] Thy zeal and Thy might? The multitude of Thy bowels and Thy mercies Towards me have refrained themselves.
Isa 65:25 Wolf and lamb do feed as one, And a lion as an ox eateth straw, As to the serpent — dust [is] its food, They do no evil, nor destroy, In all My holy mountain, said Jehovah!
Yah’s Holy Habitation is where His will is done and where peace and righteousness thrive. Sin exists on earth because mankind is following his own will. Are we really suppose to believe that evil can rise up from Yah’s Holy Habitation, and that evil can go to and fro from earth and Yah’s dwelling place?
Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.
Those who are approved as worthy, will dwell in Yah’s Holy Habitation. Turning sinners into righteous brethren takes a great deal of time and effort. Several thousand years have to go by before Yah is able to make a literal presence on earth, and this occurs after Yeshua has filled it with righteousness. I guess we are suppose to believe Yah holds different rules and different standards for His different created creatures? Man must be made holy to be in the presence of Yah and to be able to dwell with Him, but supposedly great immortal free will angels in the presence of Yah can stoop to the level of man’s carnal mind and have fits of jealousy?
Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said to them, `The sons of this age do marry and are given in marriage, 35 but those accounted worthy to obtain that age, and the rising again that is out of the dead, neither marry, nor are they given in marriage; 36 for neither are they able to die any more — for they are like messengers — and they are sons of God, being sons of the rising again.
Two things in this scripture. First we see that those who are WORTHY, are raised from the dead into immortality. Sin is not worthy of immortality. The bible is so very clear that SIN=DEATH. The idea of any created creature of Yah having immortality and being able to sin goes against the justice of Yah’s character. Second, notice how it states that man has become LIKE the angels in that they can ‘never die ANY MORE’! Does this scripture tell us that angels were created as immortal creatures? The scripture seems to be declaring that angels at one point too, could die.
If we want to make common sense assumptions about what earth was before it was waste and void, my guess would be that angels dwelled on earth prior and went through what we are going through now. Men will become like the angles, no longer to die, because they will be without sin.
We are never told that the serpent is a sinful angel. The bible never says that there is a satan- an adversary, who is a sinful angel. On the contrary we are DIRECTLY TOLD in the bible when we look at the Hebrew text, that man is a satan to Yah, man is a satan to man, and that Yah and His messengers are satans to men. As well, we are never told that evil spirits, the devil or demons are sinful angels.
The story of Lucifer and his fall does not exist in the bible, it does exist however in popular books in histories past such as, Dante's Inferno and Milton's Paradise Lost.
Titus 1:13 This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith 14 and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of those who reject the truth. 15 To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure. In fact, both their minds and consciences are corrupted.
2 Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them–bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. 4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment; 5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7 and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men 8 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)—9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
10 This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings; 11 yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord. 12 But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
Jude 1:5 Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe. 6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home–these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. 7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.
8 In the very same way, these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings. 9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals–these are the very things that destroy them. 11 Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam's error; they have been destroyed in Korah's rebellion.These scriptures make some very crucial points
#1 Do not believe in the false teachers, preaching Jewish myths.
What was a popular Jewish book around the time these scriptures were written? The book of Enoch!
#2 These false teachers ‘speak abusively against what they do not understand.’ They slander, SPEAK LIES about celestial beings!
#3 Sinful angels have been put away until the Day of judgment.
This is where it makes sense to me that before the creation of this earth and man, angels had their own creation from Yah, where they went through the process of being made righteous. Those who were found worthy were given the glory and honor of immortality and the privilege to dwell with Yah in His Holy Habitation and serve Him. Those not found worthy are reserved until a day of judgment.
Stating that the angels who sinned have been reserved for judgment, is making the point that the myths are indeed false, because how could they influence us to do evil if they are being reserved for judgment. As well, we see these angels categorized along side those destroyed in the flood, and at Sodom and Gomorrah, whom we know sleep the sleep of death.
#4 These false teachers are slanderers because…… they ‘follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority’
We are told that they have taken not the way of influencing angels, but the way of Cain, a man.These scriptures go well with the rest of the bible, where we are told deliberately that man’s own heart and mind are responsible for his wickedness.
If we take away our indoctrination of sinful angles inflicting evil on mankind, we must then come to view many scriptures in a different light.
Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, “From where do you come?” Then Satan answered the LORD and said, ” From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.”
Are we absolutely sure that this scripture is talking about some celestial being having a direct conversation with Yah in heaven? I believe that any Israelite in that time would have understood it quite differently, to put it in modern terms, what we have here are some men of Yah going to church to speak to the priest and a jealous adversary of Jobs comes along to stir up trouble.
What we do know is that Sons of God can mean men and men do present themselves to the Lord. As well, we know that the word satan merely stands for an adversary and this adversary could, from the original text, be walking the land, not the earth. My point in all this is that there is no proof that the adversary here is a sinful angel.
De 15:20 You shall eat it, you together with your household, in the presence of the Lord your God year by year at the place that the Lord will choose.
1Sa 1:22 -But Hannah did not go up, for she said to her husband, “As soon as the child is weaned, I will bring him, that he may appear in the presence of the Lord, and remain there forever; I will offer him as a nazirite for all time.”
Revelation 12:7 And there came war in the heaven; Michael and his messengers did war against the dragon, and the dragon did war, and his messengers, 8 and they did not prevail, nor was their place found any more in the heaven; 9 and the great dragon was cast forth — the old serpent, who is called `Devil,' and `the Adversary,' who is leading astray the whole world — he was cast forth to the earth, and his messengers were cast forth with him.
So here we have the PROOF right, Yah left the revelation of fallen sinful angels to the greatly symbolic highly confusing end of the bible, and even though Revelations 12 is filled with symbols Yah wants us to take verse 7 literal. No offense, but this is truly pathetic. We are told that the dragon represents kingdoms. We are not told that the dragon represents kingdoms under the powers of sinful angels. To say that heaven in this scripture represent Yah’s Holy Habitation I believe, to quote from 2 Peter, is a “destructive heresy”. We know from the OT that angles are directed by Yah to assist man in battle. We know that the word heaven is symbolically used in the bible to refer to a high position of authority and that to be cast down to earth is to loose that power and be put to shame because of ones vanity and injustice. So once again we are left we no real proof of sinful angels being cast to earth influencing the whole world to do evil.
Here is another scripture that people like to use as proof, and it has as well, the confusing use of the word heaven.
Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities , against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Context is very important in these scriptures. Paul is in prison, Christians are being persecuted, while the Roman Empire is dwelling on high, Yah’s followers are having to fight against the Roman government, against the rulers of that dark age, against a government consisting of men who’s spiritual characters are evil. The brethren have overcome their own carnal mind, the flesh is no longer their enemy. Paul is speaking to brethren who have put away the desires of the flesh and live according to the Holy Spirit. So the enemy Paul is speaking of here is the Roman government.
The truth of the bible is there is not one single scripture in the bible that says sinful angels influence us. There is not a single scripture that identifies satan or the devil as a sinful angel, however men are identified as such.
Exodus 4:11 “So the Lord said to him,” Who has made man's mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I the Lord?”
Deut 30: 19,” ….I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing;”
I Samuel 2:6 “The Lord kills and makes alive; He brings down to the grave and brings up. The Lord makes the poor and the rich;”
Isaiah 45:6-7 “That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I the Lord do all these things.”
Acts 17:26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,
The bible is clear in that –
Yah is responsible for the infliction of diseases and illnesses. Yah is responsible for blessing and cursing. Yah is responsible for the development of nations, the boundaries of those nations, and war between nations. Yah forms the light and creates darkness. We are told that there IS NO OTHER, who does these things. Pagans believe that dead people or evil spirits haunted people, inflicting them with diseases and evil. Even though the New Testament authors used the language and terms of the day, I believe we are not to define many of those terms in the same way that the pagans defined them. Pagans would define under their extreme superstitious and ignorant minds, evil spirits as being evil celestial beings, whereas I believe in the bible evil spirits represent the different infirmities man himself is able to possess from inherited genetics and environmental influences.The Holy Spirit of God has within it many righteous spirits, the spirit of truth, the spirit of patience, the spirit of kindness, the spirit of love. The spirit of man however has evil spirits WITHIN him, such as, the spirit of deceit, spirit of envy, and spirit of selfishness. When we deny Yah’s influence our desires bow down to our carnal mind, which then allows, from within man, for evil spirits to rise up. The serpent in Eden represents the carnal mind when it thinks on its own and denies Yah’s knowledge. Yah punished the carnal mind through subjecting it’s conscience to the reality of death.
Genesis 3:1 And the serpent hath been subtile above every beast of the field which Jehovah God hath made, and he saith unto the woman, `Is it true that God hath said, Ye do not eat of every tree of the garden?'
Genesis 1:14 So the Lord God said to the serpent: “Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life. 15 And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.”
Let’s think about this, the serpent is symbolic of something, and I think it very well could be the human brain. We know that the human brain is more clever and more crafty then any animal in which Yah created when He made the heavens and earth. The punishment given to the serpent is very interesting. What mental capacity do humans have over animals that could be viewed as a curse? Our brains have the capacity to understand death, and this knowledge does indeed affect our behavior.
Romans 16:18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.
Philippians 3:18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things.
Psalms 44:25 For bowed to the dust hath our soul, Cleaved to the earth hath our belly.
Here we see that the belly is represented as being our soul and that it cleaves to the dust or to the earth.
Psalms 119:25 [Daleth.] Cleaved to the dust hath my soul, Quicken me according to Thy word.
Micah 7: 17 They lick dust as a serpent, as fearful things of earth, They tremble from their enclosures, Of Jehovah our God they are afraid, Yea, they are afraid of Thee.
Hmm, here we see man likened to a serpent eating dust. Putting these scriptures together I believe the truth as to the serpent’s identity is easily seen. The serpent is the soul, or mind of man. In the garden Adam and Eve set their minds on earthly things instead of on the Spirit of Yah. They desired to be wise and their minds were filled with deceit based on their observations and their ignorance. Yah punished the mind of man by cursing it with the knowledge of death. With the knowledge of death comes fear and with fear comes the minds preoccupation with it.
When we do not follow the will of Yah, which is to learn from Him, for He is our source to goodness and righteousness, we then are drawn none other then to our earthly desires. Romans 16:18 is the enmity from Genesis 3 between the serpents seed and the seed of the woman. In the beginning the enmity already existed between man and Yah, because Yah is the Creator and we are the created, Yah is the genius and we are the ignorant. Man knew that he wanted to become like Yah, he just didn’t know that the ONLY way to do so is through Him, by following Him and obeying Him. When man sets his mind on earthly things and not on the spiritual things evil arises.
Genesis 6:5 The Lord saw that the wickedness of humankind was great in the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of their hearts was only evil continually.
Genesis 8:21 And when the Lord smelled the pleasing odor, the Lord said in his heart, “I will never again curse the ground because of humankind, for the inclination of the human heart is evil from youth; nor will I ever again destroy every living creature as I have done.
Ps 4:2 How long, O men, will you turn my glory into shame? How long will you love delusions and seek false gods? Selah
Ps 28:3 Draw me not with the wicked, And with workers of iniquity, Speaking peace with their neighbours, And evil in their heart.
Jer 3:17 At that time they cry to Jerusalem, `O throne of Jehovah,' And gathered unto her hath been all the nations, For the name of Jehovah, to Jerusalem, Nor do they go any more after the stubbornness of their evil heart.
Jer 4:14 Wash from evil thy heart, O Jerusalem, That thou mayest be saved, Till when dost thou lodge in thy heart Thoughts of thy strength?
Jer 11:8 And they have not hearkened nor inclined their ear, And they walk each in the stubbornness of their evil heart, And I bring on them all the words of this covenant, That I commanded to do, and they did not.'
Jer 14:14 -Then the Lord said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and thedelusions of their own minds.
Jer 18:12 – And they have said, It is incurable, For after our own devices we do go, And each the stubbornness of his evil heart we do.
Jer 23:26 – How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets, who prophesy the delusions of their own minds?
Matthew 7:21 For it is from WITHIN, from the human heart, that evil intentions come: fornication, theft, murder, 22 adultery, avarice, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, folly. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.“
Mt 9:4 And Jesus, having known their thoughts, said, `Why think ye evil in your hearts?
Mt 12:34 `Brood of vipers! how are ye ab
le to speak good things — being evil? for out of the abundance of the heart doth the mouth speak.Mt 15:19 for out of the heart come forth evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, whoredoms, thefts, false witnessings, evil speakings:
Lu 6:45 `The good man out of the good treasure of his heart doth bring forth that which [is] good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart doth bring forth that which [is] evil; for out of the abounding of the heart doth his mouth speak
Mr 8:33 But when Jesus turned and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter. “Get behind me, Satan!” he said. “You do not have in mind the things of God, but the things OF MEN.”
Peter is a satan not because he is being influenced or acting like a sinful angel, but because he has IN MIND the things OF MEN!
Colossians 1:21 And you — once being alienated, and enemies in the mind, in the evil works, yet now did he reconcile,
Our enemy, our adversary, our satan is the mind of man when he chooses his ways over that of Yah’s. When our fleshly desires rule over our mind, evil arises. This evil manifests itself into governments and nations, where power and authority inflict the weak. It is a beastly rulership, it is a fiery dragon set on high, exalting itself as if it were a god from heaven, ruling from heaven. Time and time again throughout history these spiritual hosts of evil forces are brought down into shame to learn humility, they are brought back down to earth. As one falls however it seems another is in the waiting ready to rise up.
But aren't the “devil and his angels” cast into the fire? If “satan” is our minds, who is being cast into the fire?
Quote (david @ April 09 2008,17:37) Quote Greetings Jodi….Lucifers' handiwork is visible to see throughout the universe…..there are millions of planets that are in the same state earth was before creation,void and without life…. Are you saying there was life on all these planets and Satan did away with this?
Greetings David…..sorry for the untimely post….The answer to your question is….I would think the angelic realm were the managing agents for these planets,as to whether or not there was human life as we know it….the answer is No…That doesnot exclude other forms of life eg.plant or animal…Iam sure there was, at the very least…OrderQuote (Not3in1 @ April 17 2008,18:57) But aren't the “devil and his angels” cast into the fire? If “satan” is our minds, who is being cast into the fire?
Hi Mandy,
This is what I think about the devil.
The devil is not an individual being as most Christians think.
The dragon, the serpent, the devil and satan were all the same thing.
They are not a person or being.
They were adversaries to God. They are the deception that stood, and stands, in the way of understanding God.
When Jesus told Peter “get behind me satan” do you think that Jesus thought that Peter was actually the being satan? No, Peter was just deceived, and being an adversary to the current goal of Jesus and God.“And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”
This is when deception and lack of understanding came upon the people of earth.
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Rev 20:10
So along with the beast, whatever that may be, all deception about God will be cast into the lake of fire. Nobody can any longer be deceived, all will be free to believe.
Tim
Quote (TimothyVI @ April 18 2008,00:30) Quote (Not3in1 @ April 17 2008,18:57) But aren't the “devil and his angels” cast into the fire? If “satan” is our minds, who is being cast into the fire?
Hi Mandy,
This is what I think about the devil.
The devil is not an individual being as most Christians think.
The dragon, the serpent, the devil and satan were all the same thing.
They are not a person or being.
They were adversaries to God. They are the deception that stood, and stands, in the way of understanding God.
When Jesus told Peter “get behind me satan” do you think that Jesus thought that Peter was actually the being satan? No, Peter was just deceived, and being an adversary to the current goal of Jesus and God.“And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.”
This is when deception and lack of understanding came upon the people of earth.
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Rev 20:10
So along with the beast, whatever that may be, all deception about God will be cast into the lake of fire. Nobody can any longer be deceived, all will be free to believe.
Tim
Greetings Tim….Help me to understand ,you are saying that ,there is no personage involved in the identification of satan….I find that some what conceivable simply because he is a spirit. We must not forget that the Adversary is not without power,he has the ability to manafest himself as he sees fit (eg. a human,a snake,a dragon and so on).Let us not forget that the Apolyon uses confusion so as to create opportunity and Lucifer was an angel of light and a thing of beauty….The father of Lies is a very real, and cunning entity, and we would all be wise not to dismiss him…. In closing ,one of satans greatest deceptions is to have carnal man think he does not exist….or at the very least he this is cute little guy with a pitch fork….
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