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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 31 2014,13:22) Hi WU,
Should we use human wisdom to understand God's plans for men?
God has not said the priests will teach men after the judgement
Nick.Will they just play harps all day long?
And sit on soft clouds.
For there will be no more sacrifices performed.
And no more temple.What can they do but teach,and send his men to go out and teach the gentiles.The priests will be spirit creatures
The resurrected saints. They will appears as men,just as Jesus showed himself after the resurrection.wakeup.
Hi WU,
Are you familiar with the plans of God or should we offer Him our own ideas?Speculation adds nothing to truth.
God will be worshiped and served
Rev 2121 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will [a]dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”
5 And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” And He *said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.” 6 Then He said to me, “[c]It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. 7 He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. 8 But for the cowardly and [d]unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and [e]brimstone, which is the second death.”
9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls [f]full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”
Rev 22
22 Then he showed me a river of the water of life, [a]clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, 2 in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve [c]kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him; 4 they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads. 5 And there will no longer be any night; and they [d]will not have need of the light of a lamp nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign forever and ever.Nick.
It appears that you are suffering from information overload;
at the moment.
Go one step at the time.Those scriptures(rev21 and 22) are of the final stages dont go there
as yet.wakeup.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 31 2014,14:27) Hi WU,
It is all about God and from God and to God.
We just need to obey in His grace
All creation is framed by the Word of God.wakeup.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 31 2014,13:22) Hi WU,
Should we use human wisdom to understand God's plans for men?
God has not said the priests will teach men after the judgement
Hi NickI have given you scripture showing you that the Israelites will be taught during the millennium.
So God did say it,
that they will be taught.
Who will teach them?
Christ with no helpers?Why are you choosing to ignore this?
Do you have a love for the truth,
or is pride getting in the way?God gave us the scriptures and the holy spirit to understand his plans, and we are trying to show you,
but obviously the holy spirit is not showing you yet.
yet I mean.Hi J42,
“that they will be taught.
Who will teach them?
Christ with no helpers?”Should we add our ideas to what is written?
Does the Spirit inspire speculation?Hi J42,
How did you learn about the end times -from scripture?
Then why would you add conjecture to the truth?Zechariah 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
wakeup.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 01 2014,10:43) Hi WU,
Yes.
What does this mean to you?
Nick.That means that the gentiles outside the kingdom,
will see the jews as a special people.
Clinging to their shirts saying: show us the way to worship your King and your God.wakeup.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 01 2014,11:21) Hi WU,
True.
But how does this relate to the discussion?
Nick.We are discussing the kingdom to the saints, and paradise to
the jews. The jews will live in paradise and the gentiles live out side,paradise. The jews will teach them about God.
The gentiles will look up to the jews.wakeup.
Hi WU,
Where does scripture offer paradise as a permanent option.
Surely it is the place of waiting [DEATH-which is cast into the fire-rev]Lk 16
19 “Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. 20 And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, 21 and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22 Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 And [r]besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ 27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house— 28 for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham *said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”Nick.
You have been distracted by that parable;and dont understand the whole meaning of it. What Jesus is trying to convey.
If Abraham is far away;how can he hear the rich man calling.
If it is that hot; what would a drop of water brought from far be of any benefit?The whole parable is trying to tell us that a rich, and mean man on earth will end up in the fire.
And the suffering poor man will end up with abraham.Not literally in his bossom. The dog is not literally licking his wounds.You must believe, when Christ rules,there is paradise.
You should never deny this.
**And thy will be done on earth**.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 31 2014,08:22) The jews are first,and they will be last.
The gentiles are last,and they will be first.The jews have the law;we have Jesus and mercy.
There is a difference between under the law and in Jesus.All that go by the law will be judged by the law.
All that are in Jesus will have mercy.You have not understood the basics.
wakeup.
Hi Wakeup:The gospel was preached to the nation of Israel as a nation first prior to the gospel going to the gentile nations, and now, they are a nation again since 1948 and the gospel is being preached to them as a nation again.
Quote Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (journey42 @ Mar. 31 2014,11:55) Quote
Of course we as well as they are all saved by God's mercy, but the scriptures state that both they and we are saved by faith, and that means that they believed God.The scriptures state that Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness, and the scriptures state that the Law which was added because of transgression, the law is knowledge of sin, does not disannul the covenant that God made with Abraham which is salvation by faith so that it might be by grace, and that is so that it can not be earned by good works, it is by God's mercy.
Hi Marty
Abraham is definately saved because of his faith, no doubt about that.
But to the Jews under the Law there is a different judgement.Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
See it's a different judgement.
A harsher judgement.
That is why “Mercy” will go back to the Jews after the fullness of the gentiles come in.
This “Mercy” is also for those who were under the Law, to be given a chance to learn Christ, the one they were expecting but never knew. Those old dead dry bones, which come back to life and be put into the kingdom are for those who died under the Law.
And this “Mercy” is for them now to know Christ, and be filled with the “Holy Spirit” (Spirit of Truth).
They will be saved regardless, but have to go through the process now of learning Christ first. Just like we have to now.
No man can come to God except through Christ.
This is a new law, and it applies to them also now.
Christ gives the holy spirit now,
and it's this holy spirit, the only ingredient within our temples that is required to raise us up to spirit in the resurrection.
But they have missed out on the first resurrection, because it was not for them to inherit first, but last,
so they must be raised first to flesh again, given space to learn,
then will die, and be raised in the second resurrection.
Not all those Jews, only the ones chosen by election,
and all those dry bones you see in Ezekiel 37, are the elect, which will make up the “whole house Israel” who will be brought back in the flesh.So whether these had faith or not, I don't know, it doesn't say, maybe they did, but for some reason they were chosen, and I can only guess that those obeyed the Law, now they get their reward – a chance to learn Christ, and come into the kingdom the same way every one has to now, before they receive their full reward – eternal life at the 2nd resurrection.
And we know that not all of the Jews were under the law, because some were born “before the law came out”, and they would be included.
Hi J42:The Jews that were under the Law of Moses have been judged by the Law, but according to the scriptures a remnant was saved. Those that have been judged will not incur further judgement. Even by the Law of society one cannot be judged twice for the same crime.
Those who were not saved have been judged, and they are dead.
Those who were saved during the OT period will be raised from the dead as part of the body of Christ. The blood of the Lord Jesus has washed away their sins. The will be born again when the Lord comes for the church, raised from the dead by the Holy Spirit. Jesus obeyed the Law without sin unto death on the cross. They obeyed the Law unto death but not without sin.
The scriptures state that by the Law shall not man be saved, and so, they were not saved by the Law but by faith.
Quote Rmans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
The “circumcision” are the Jews, are they not?
Love in Christ,
MartyHi Marty
That is not true. Israel killed and rejected their Messiah.
They do not accept Christ till this day, and do not accept the New Testament, let alone the gospels.They are still waiting for their Messiah to come, not knowing he already came the first time, and is returning to judge.
Can you look a little more closely at these scriptures you gave. Israel will be blinded until the FULLNESS of THE GENTILES COME IN. There are still a few more gentiles to come in, but when the 1st trumpet is blown, we know that the fullness of the gentiles are completed. No gentile or Jew can come in until the 7 trumpets are completed, and Christ returns. THEN mercy will be given to them, by election only, along with the dry bones mentioned in Ezekiel, who will be brought to life in the kingdom, but in the flesh.
So not until Christ destroys Babylon the Great, and bounds Satan can they enter. They will know Christ now, who redeemed them, the chosen only.25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Marty,
The Jews will be “justified” by “faith” in the 1000 year kingdom. They will all have faith, and not one of them will be lost.
No one is justified by the old Law. They will get a chance to prove their faith when truth is taught to them.
Faith is trust in every Word that comes out of God's mouth.
Not pick and chose.
They will trust that God sent Christ to them to redeem them, and they will know he is the Word of God.Journey42. and Marty……..A rich man ask Jesus what must he do to enter the Kingdom of God , Jesus responded “KEEP THE Commandments?. Paul's argument was not about should we keep the Law (the ten commandments) it was about How Law “WORKS” that is why he said by “WORKS” of LAW, a man shall not be “Justified” before God, Why?, because LAW WORKS BY FORCE COMPLIANCE through the medium of fear of transgressing it> But a person Obeying “THE” LAW (the ten commandments) through the operation of fear or forced compliance is not being made right in his or her heart.
LAWS can never change hearts, it takes the Spirit of the Living God to do that within. That was Paul's argument, it was never should we keep the commandments or not, it was HOW we are keeping them, is it Through the way LAW “WORKS or through the OPERATION of GOD, who changes our hearts and minds within us to comply to his commandments. Like it say you are being “CREATED” UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS>
So are we to keep the commandments ,YES, but more important is, how we are keeping them, is it by Faith or by the way a LAW WORKS, forced compliance, one requires no Faith at all, Just fear, the other does require FAITH apart from the WORKS of LAW.
Journey and Marty the problem is the placement of the “definite article” the, by translators where it says By works of “THE” LAW, it should just say, by WORKS OF LAW, the definite article makes you think he is speaking of the ten commandments instead of How LAW itself WORKS. Check it out, in the original Greek you can see it there, the definte article is not used.
peace and love to you and yours………………………………gene
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