- This topic is empty.
- Posts
T,
It depends on how you look as it as Jesus freed all creation when he chose to sacrifice himself on the cross. Nevertheless the creation is not yet free for God has not yet placed everything under his feet.
Even though Jesus freed it the new creation is not yet released from frustration.
Quote (kerwin @ April 18 2014,09:58) T, It depends on how you look as it as Jesus freed all creation when he chose to sacrifice himself on the cross. Nevertheless the creation is not yet free for God has not yet placed everything under his feet.
Even though Jesus freed it the new creation is not yet released from frustration.
Kit all depend if you understand what Christ and Paul mean by free
to me it is the freedom of this fleshly oriented world with is wickedness in this case yes he did ,we will not be more free from it now than in the new system of things to come ,
if we are submitted now we will still be submitted then ,with the same rules applying ,
if someone does not find himself free ,he did not come to know Christ nor his father ,
Quote (kerwin @ April 18 2014,15:19) T, I do believe we are the first fruits.
Kerwin.You need to read rev.7
There are only 144k sealed not more.
these are the ones that have been feeding on the Word of God. The meat that does not perish.
John 6:27John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you:
***for him hath God the Father SEALED***.wakeup.
Wakeup,
I went over the mentions of the 144,000 and you have them in the wrong age. The 144,000 are those the angels spare from the tribulations of the Sixth Seal.
Revelation 6:12-7:4
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 for the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
7 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. 4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.Romans 8:23
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Paul, and the disciples in the church of Romans he wrote to, are in an age prior to the prophecy of the Sixth Seal.
So since Scripture cannot be broken the 144,000 cannot include the one Paul spoke of as the firstfruits of the Spirit.
Hi WU,
36.2 Corinthians 1:22
who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.37.Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,38.Ephesians 4:30
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.Quote (kerwin @ April 18 2014,10:19) T, I do believe we are the first fruits.
kagreed ,first fruits means to me that we have received the first opportunity to ,being born after Christ and to hear the gospel ,
this is why it is so important not to neglect the time in which we live
You all thik you are the first fruit?
Revelation 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Revelation 14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
Revelation 14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
Revelation 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
Revelation 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.
There are only 144k ,and no more.
wakeup.
Wakeup,
You are the one in a debate with Scriptures not me. The 144,000 are sealed during the time the Sixth Seal and Paul wrote his letters before that age. That age has not even come.
Your quotes from Revelations 14 tells us the 144,000 were among the flesh that was saved from the Great Tribulation.
Quote (kerwin @ April 19 2014,14:39) Wakeup, You are the one in a debate with Scriptures not me. The 144,000 are sealed during the time the Sixth Seal and Paul wrote his letters before that age. That age has not even come.
Your quotes from Revelations 14 tells us the 144,000 were among the flesh that was saved from the Great Tribulation.
kerwin.Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Revelation 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Can you explain these scriptures please.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ April 19 2014,10:09) Quote (kerwin @ April 19 2014,14:39) Wakeup, You are the one in a debate with Scriptures not me. The 144,000 are sealed during the time the Sixth Seal and Paul wrote his letters before that age. That age has not even come.
Your quotes from Revelations 14 tells us the 144,000 were among the flesh that was saved from the Great Tribulation.
kerwin.Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Revelation 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Can you explain these scriptures please.
wakeup.
Wakeup,The age of the opening of the Sixth Seal was in progress already and many disasters had already happened and there were men that begged to be hid from God and from the wrath of Jesus. After that four angels were holding the winds from blowing so for some time before that it had not been blowing. Then a fifth angel told them to wait and harm nothing till the 144,000 were sealed. Then they were sealed.
Then it goes to talk of the multitude that stood before the throne during the same age. One of the elders states the multitude are they that came out of the Great Tribulation. After that the Seventh Seal is opened.
Kerwin.
1.The 7th seal is the 6thseal *IN DETAIL*. 1 to 7 Trumpets.
2.The 7 trumpets and vials; are all contained in the 6th seal.
3. Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the *sixth seal*, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
This is the coming; and also is the 7th trumpet/vials.
The last trump.wakeup.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 19 2014,05:10) Hi WU,
Yes the saved are sealed with the Spirit.
But they are not the 144000
Nick…….That is absolutely true. There will be far more then 144,000 of the tribes of Israel raised in the resurrection. You have that right brother, or Jesus was a complete failure in what he accomplished.peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Wakeup……the 144,000 are from the tribes of Israel, 12,000 from each tribe. The standards for the four head tribes are as it was in the wilderness , The Tribe of Dan “the eagle” , the tribe of Judah, “the lion”, the tribe of Ruben, “the man”, the tribe of Ephraim, “the ox”.
These four creature are the same standards or Flags used in the wilderness for the four quadrants of the twelve tribes, each had three set of tribes in their quadrants for a total of twelve tribes. That is why the four creatures had three set of wings with eyes (spirit of God) in them which lifts them up, hence “symbolically” WINGS. God has positioned and patterned His throne exactly like it was in the wilderness.
There will be Millions of raised “true” Christians as Saint, ruling with Jesus in his thousand year reign of Jesus on this earth.
Peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Quote (Wakeup @ April 19 2014,18:27) Kerwin. 1.The 7th seal is the 6thseal *IN DETAIL*. 1 to 7 Trumpets.
2.The 7 trumpets and vials; are all contained in the 6th seal.
3. Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the *sixth seal*, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
This is the coming; and also is the 7th trumpet/vials.
The last trump.wakeup.
Wake,1) I think you have something there as it seems that the tribulations is still ongoing at that time. It seems unlikely that it is in detail as they opening happens in sequence.
That is where he seems the rapture happens during the tribulations but that understanding seem to disagree with Jesus' teaching on the matter.
Quote (kerwin @ April 19 2014,17:25) Wakeup, The age of the opening of the Sixth Seal was in progress already and many disasters had already happened and there were men that begged to be hid from God and from the wrath of Jesus. After that four angels were holding the winds from blowing so for some time before that it had not been blowing. Then a fifth angel told them to wait and harm nothing till the 144,000 were sealed. Then they were sealed.
Then it goes to talk of the multitude that stood before the throne during the same age. One of the elders states the multitude are they that came out of the Great Tribulation. After that the Seventh Seal is opened.
Kerwin,We have not reached the 6th seal yet. We have not even reached the 5th seal yet, or the fourth.
we are in the 3rd seal. This is famine. It is coming to the whole world.These are the beginning of sorrows.
The sorrows intensify when the 4th seal is opened, the rider of the pale horse. The NWO and the false prophet comes.
Once he kills the christians, and forces the mark of the beast on all people, the Trumpets begin.
The trumpets have not started yet.
The 144,00 get “sealed” just before the trumpet blows. Before the earth is really harmed.What few natural disasters we have today are nothing compared to what is coming.
So the wrath of God has not started, and starts at the 1st trumpet, after the Mark of the Beast is issued, and christians persecuted (see the 5th seal, they are joining their dead brothers from the past), then in the 6th seal, the trumpets begin.
And the scriptures Wakeup gave you shows that the angels are commanded to hold back until God seals his servants. Then he will give the go-ahead. This is when the door of the ark is closed. The trumpets begin. God's wrath on Babylon the Great.
Journey,
I only disagree with one thing that you wrote at that is the 144,000 are sealed just before the last trump. I disagree because they are sealed to mark them as those not to be harmed after the first part of the tribulation had occurred.
My original point is the first fruits are not the 144,000 as Paul counted himself among their number.
Quote (kerwin @ April 20 2014,13:58) Journey, I only disagree with one thing that you wrote at that is the 144,000 are sealed just before the last trump. I disagree because they are sealed to mark them as those not to be harmed after the first part of the tribulation had occurred.
My original point is the first fruits are not the 144,000 as Paul counted himself among their number.
Kerwin.I understand now why you are not getting it.
You see Rev chapter 7 coming straight after rev chapter 6.
It doesn't work that way.Rev chapter 7 is another vision John received, straight after the vision prior to that in chapter 6.
Can you imagine this;
John is in the spirit. He is getting all these visions of different events. These visions are not given to him in the order the events go.He gets the vision of the first six seals. These are all in order in chapter 6.
Then he gets another vision of the sealing of the 144k, and sees what will take place just before the 6th seal is opened,
and in that same vision, same chapter; he sees the end. It is all compacted with no details of the trumpets.Rev 7:9 And after this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations and kindreds, and people and tongues stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands:
So you can see it's jumping straight to the end when they are resurrected in this same vision. The vision is “before the trumpets” …the sealing of 144K, and “after the trumpets”, the resurrection. (again, no details given in-between in this vision)
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Now when you move on to chapter 8,
The 7th seal is giving us details only of the 6 trumpets, which already happened already in the 6th seal. (chapter 6) but wasn't explained then
When the 7th trumpet happens on the 7th seal. “It is done” (finished)And to prove this, the 6th seal chapter 6; is in short, missing out all the details of the trumpets.
Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
This happens just before the coming.Revelation 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Because of the great earthquake.Revelation 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
You can't see the heaven, because of so much activity. The sun is black, the sky is dark, the earthquake is happening.Revelation 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
They are all afraid, hiding.Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
They know who's coming now.Revelation 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
This is the 3rd woe, about to come, the Coming. This would be the 6th trumpet they are in.So no details, just shortened here in the sixth seal. Compacted.
You have to go to the 7th seal in chapter 8, to get all the details of what would be taking place during the 6th seal. Which is the 6 trumpets.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
