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Okay, Nick.
Is this topic called: “Exposing the founders of protestantism” or “things relevant to the way of Christ”?Back to the topic…
The 'invisible' church that Luther had hoped to establish in the hearts of all the faithful had grown into a
very visible human institution. Luther found himself compelled to maintain it by force and to turn against his
own principles of individual freedom and toleration . . . Luther's ideals of spiritual freedom, individual
judgment, and pure inwardness were never actually embodied in the completed structure of his church; most of the
ideas that had brought about his break with Rome had to seek refuge in the shelter of those separatistic sects
that were persecuted with fire and sword by the three reformed churches.
(Germany: 2000 Years, I, New York: Ungar, revised edition of 1961, 235, 237)7. Calvin
A. GeneralIn the preface to the Institutes he admitted the right of the government to put heretics to death . . . He
thought that Christians should hate the enemies of God . . . Those who defended heretics . . . should be equally
punished.
(Smith, 178)During Calvin's reign in Geneva, between 1542 and 1546, “58 persons were put to death for heresy.” (Durant, 473)
While he did not directly recommend the use of the death penalty for blasphemy, he defended its use among theJews.
(Harkness, 102)In defense of stoning false prophets, Calvin observes:
The father should not spare his son . . . nor the husband his own wife. If he has some friend who is as dear tohim as his own life, let him put him to death.
(Harknesss, 107; Calvin, Opera [Works], vol. 27, 251; Sermon on Deuteronomy 13:6-11)In January, 1547 in Calvin's Geneva, one James Gruet, a kind of free-thinker of dubious morals, was alleged to
have posted a note which implied that Calvin should leave the city:
He was at once arrested and a house to house search made for his accomplices. This method failed to reveal
anything except that Gruet had written on one of Calvin's tracts the words 'all rubbish.' The judges put him to
the rack twice a day, morning and evening, for a whole month . . . He was sentenced to death for blasphemy and
beheaded on July 26, 1547 . . . Evangelical freedom had now arrived at the point where its champions took a
man's life . . . merely for writing a lampoon!
(Huizinga, 176; cf. Daniel-Rops, 82-83)8. Protestant Torture
As to the myth that torture was a tactic solely of Catholics, Janssen quotes a Protestant eyewitness to the
contrary:
The Protestant theologian Meyfart . . . described the tortures which he had personally witnessed . . . 'The
subtle Spaniard and the wily Italian have a horror of these bestialities and brutalities, and at Rome it is not
customary to subject a murderer . . . an incestuous person, or an adulterer to torture for the space of more
than an hour'; but in Germany . . . torture is kept up for a whole day, for a day and a night, for two days . .
. even also for four days . . . after which it begins again . . . 'There are stories extant so horrible and
revolting that no true man can hear of them without a shudder.'
(Janssen, XVI, 516-518, 521)He gives also another typical instance of the treatment of Anabaptists:
At Augsburg, in the first half of the year 1528, about 170 Anabaptists of both sexes were either imprisoned orexpelled by order of the new-religionist Town Council. Some were . . . burnt through the cheeks with hot irons;
many were beheaded; some had their tongues cut out.
(Janssen, V, 160)9. Conclusion
Persecution, including death penalties for heresy, is not just a Catholic failing. It is clearly also aProtestant one, and a general “blind spot” of the Middle Ages, much like abortion is in our own supposedly
“enlightened” age. Furthermore, it is an outright lie to assert that Protestantism in its initial appearance,
advocated tolerance. The evidence thus far presented refutes this notion beyond any reasonable doubt.
VII. PROTESTANT CENSORSHIP
1. Overview
The early Protestants were not the champions of free speech and freedom of the press, either, as we are led to
believe, any more than they were for freedom of religion or assembly — not by a long shot. Suppression of the
Mass and forced Church attendance by civil law are examples of this intolerance regarding freedom of thought and
action. Neither was Catholic and sectarian literature to be suffered:
With isolated exceptions . . . we find everywhere the opinions which are exactly in harmony wlth those of the
territorial prince of the day, striving their utmost to suppress all differing views. The theory of the absolute
Church authority of the secular powers was in itself enough to make a system of tolerance impossible on the
Protestant side…From the very first religious life among the Protestants was influenced by the hopeless
contradiction that on the one hand Luther imposed it as a sacred duty on every individual, in all matters of
faith, to set aside every authority, above all that of the Church, and to follow only his own judgment, while on
the other hand the reformed theologians gave the secular princes power over the religion of their land and
subjects . . . 'Luther never attempted to solve this contradiction. In practice he was content that the princes
should have supreme control over religion, doctrine and Church, and that it was their right and their duty to
suppress every religious creed which differed from their own.'
(Janssen, XIV, 230-231; citing Johann von Dollinger: Kirche und Kirchen, 1861, 52 ff.)The Protestant princes . . . loved and encouraged the censorship because, with its help, they could suppress the
well-merited complaint against their robbery of Church property, or other self-interested deeds, or even
criminal acts.
(Janssen, XIV, 507)
Violation of the orders of the censorship was everywhere to be severely punished.
(Janssen, XIV, 234)
Janssen writes of a hypocritical instance of Luther's censorship (1529):
Luther . . . set his pen in motion concerning this Catholic translation of the Bible. 'The freedom of the Word,'
which he claimed for himself, was not to be accorded to his opponent Emser . . . When . . . he learnt that
Emser's translation . . . was to be printed . . . at Rostock, he not only appealed himself to his follower, Duke
Henry of Mecklenburg, with the request that 'for the glory of the evangel of Christ and the salvation of all
souls' he would put a stop to this printing, but he also worked on the councillors of the Elector of Saxony to
support his action. He denied the right and the power of the Catholic authorities to inhibit his books; on the
other hand he invoked the arm of the secular authorities against all writings that were displeasing to him.
(Janssen, XIV, 503-504)James Madison, fourth president and father of the Constitution, was not religious in any conventional sense. “Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.”
“During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution.”
From:
The Madisons by Virginia Moore, P. 43 (1979, McGraw-Hill Co. New York, NY) quoting a letter by JM to William Bradford April 1, 1774, and James Madison, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by Joseph Gardner, p. 93, (1974, Newsweek, New York, NY) Quoting Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments by JM, June 1785.The spirit that brings pride and indolence to the Clergy, ignorance and servility to the laity and superstition, bigotry, and persecution to the both of them is still alive, folks.
What “this” are you talking about, Nick?
To all…..John Calvin was a cold blooded murderer, He had Micheal Servetus Killed for writing and publishing His paper on The Errors of the Trinity. The protestants as well as the Catholics Killed thousands of true Christains, and if they had power over the state today, thousands more would be who do not agree with their false teachings would be put to death.
IMO…….gene
The Protestants are the “daughters” of the Harlot. They were not and ARE not the remnant of the church.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.To all…….> the protestants are nothing more then the daughters of the Catholic chruch. Look at their core beliefs.
who believes in the trinity doctrine…….BOTH
who believes in easter………………….. BOTH
who blieves in Christmas…………………BOTH
eho believes in sunday worship……… ..BOTH
we know these are all false teachings. When pope John Paul died, one of their Catholic bishops said on public TV that the protestant's were their daughters, And they were going to try to reconcile with them, under the new pope. It may happen there seems to be a movement toward that direction. Can you imagin the power they would possess if that were to happen.
I believe we are truly in the latter days…….IMO….geneIslam, Buddism, Hindusim, and etc. are also religions on the uprise that seek to supplant true Christian faith. There are also a lot of other “isms” out there on the move against Christianity. But for those of us who are enlightened, perhaps we should just realize that these forces in the world are directed by “the prince of the Power of the air” and we are not going to stop them; indeed, “it is impossible that offences won't come, but woe unto him through whom they come”. Notice that it was never judiciously determined in the lawful assemblies that Paul and Peter endured (in the book of Acts) that these men spoke out against other religions. The bigger things that men like Paul, Peter, John, James, etc., took issue with was issues regarding the sin of rejecting Jesus The Messiah as Lord (and the gospel of the Kingdom), which leads to living a lifestyle devoid of genuine faith and love.
I agree that there are false teachings in many Christian denominations out there, but once again, perhaps our time would be better spent in getting out there and preaching the gospel, and loving our neighbor, whether they are Muslim, Catholic, Hindu, or New Age.
Hmmmm…..
Let's think about this. Jesus said, “I come NOT to call the righteous but sinners to repentance”. Now you all say that Luther and Calvin were dirty rotten sinners but you yourselves are righteous. Who did Jesus come to save? Certainly not the righteous.
thinker
Hi TT,
Should we judge any man?We should certainly compare their tenets with the Teachers and judge their fruit.
It would be a major folly to head off following these men or any others but that is what the world does .
Nick said:
Quote Should we judge any man? We should certainly compare their tenets with the Teachers and judge their fruit.
It would be a major folly to head off following these men or any others but that is what the world does.
Nick,
Do you know yourself to be a sinner or no?thinker
Hi TT,
So what of the fruit of the Spirit shown in these men?
Gal5
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
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