Eternal torment

[dirtyknections]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 20 2008,07:11)

Hi Dk, perhaps you could answer in an appropriate thread?

agreed

[dirtyknections]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 20 2008,07:19)

DK….It's not about me it's about truth,Stop and think a monent if You say something i agree with i would say amen brother, and i as well as Adam and others have said this to each other all the time, the Spirit does have a ring to it and to me some seem to have it more than others. I did not teach Adam what He knows the Spirit of God did not me, i only expressed my opinions and they simply aliened with His and some others also. I think i even said amen to one or two of your posts, No one is following no man or women here, we just express things as we see them. But i do believe the Spirit of truth does give unity to those who have it, not that anyone has all the truth we Just see in part thats all. love and peace to you and your………….gene

understood…i just think Adam…takes everything you say for face value..instead of seeing it for himself…

Just some observations brother…

I myself coming from a JW background was guilty my whole life of the same think…taking things at face value…I was taught to believe what the Watchtower said unconditionally…
Later in in life i seen the folly in this..

So you can say I am “hypersensitive” to this type of behavoir and strive to not let anyone be like I was..

[NickHassan]

Hi GB,
As others have said before you seem to equate agreement with evidence of the Spirit.
Is that wise?

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick….it wouldn't be wise if you don't have the spirit of truth, but if you do then it is wise to recognize the sound of the sheep of God.The sheep know the sound of the Sheppard they have the ring of truth, you can recognize it if you have it in you. If a person doesn't have the Spirit of truth in them then they would consider it unwise. Because what a person doesn't have he doesn't have. Some have the ability to recognize the Spirit of Truth its a gift and others have different gifts God gives his gifts as he see fit.

IMO……gene

imo……….gene

[Proclaimer]

Quote (gollamudi @ June 20 2008,06:25)

Hi DK, What do you think of Jesus a god, demi-god, super being, an angel, the light on the day one, Michael, preexisting spirit, Melchizedek, Go of God, Light of Light, True God of True God, begotten not created, begotten assexually, homoousios with the Father, begotten before the time began, eternally begotten,begotten God, monogenes son, hypostasis with Father, so on and soforth?

The son and a wonderful messenger.

[gollamudi]

Thanks T8,
I left out them

[NickHassan]

topical

[NickHassan]

Hi and welcome Hanoch,
soul and body are able to be destroyed in the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels.[Mt10.28,mt25]
How long that takes is not specified.

[NickHassan]

for dk

[NickHassan]

Hi,
For SB

[GeneBalthrop]

To All……there is (NO) Greek word for eternal, the word ion or eion means AGE ,only.

peace……gene

[NickHassan]

Hi GB,
True.
Strangely KJV translates it as WORLD

32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world [165], neither in the world to come.

Number 165
Transliteration:
aion {ahee-ohn'}
Word Origin:
from the same as 104
TDNT:
1:197,31
Part of Speech:
noun masculine
Usage in the KJV:
ever 71, world 38, never 3364 1519 3588 6, evermore 4, age 2, eternal 2, misc 5

Total: 128
Definition:
for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
the worlds, universe
period of time, age

[GeneBalthrop]

To All…….there is no Greek word eternal ,Period. ion eion is Age only The Greeks did not have The word eternal in their language at all. The nearest thing to it is age unending. The translators substituted our word eternal and perpetuity of time is not what the word (aion) means it simple means , a period of time or age, that is the correct meaning of the word. Any good Greek Scholar will tell you that.

The misuse of that word has caused major textual misunderstanding, in tha past and in the present.

Peace………gene

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Certainly many of the times that the word is translated WORLD it seems that AGE would have been just as good.
eg
“worries of the WORLD…”

[NickHassan]

For SB

[NickHassan]

For RB

[david]

Quote

To All…….there is no Greek word eternal ,Period. ion eion is Age only The Greeks did not have The word eternal in their language at all. The nearest thing to it is age unending. The translators substituted our word eternal and perpetuity of time is not what the word (aion) means it simple means , a period of time or age, that is the correct meaning of the word. Any good Greek Scholar will tell you that. The misuse of that word has caused major textual misunderstanding, in tha past and in the present.

Very true. I'm not sure “age unending” is a good meaning either because that basically means “eternity” or everlasting. And in some places where that word is used, it definitely doesn't mean that. The translation my Bible uses is “time indefinite.” It usually does refer to a long period of time that may or may not be forever.

[seekingtruth]

I wrote this a few months ago:

Many teach that nearly all the people who have ever lived will suffer in eternal torment in hell. This has been based on a translation of the word aion which has translated as eternal, everlasting, forever this is offered as the proof within the scriptures that punishment goes on forever.

However the translation for aion only means endless when it derives its meaning or endlessness from the nature of the subject to which it is connected. Best translated as “The entirety of time for the object being discussed” Hence when applied to God it is certainly to be considered unending, when applied to smoke rising, until the consumption of the item being burned, and to the torment of the wicked, until all has been paid. God will not torture a non-believer for eternity

But what about the wicked who seem to prosper until death, where is the justice of God. Scriptures support that God will “balance the books” at resurrection. I believe it is God’s way to recompense, it would be unfair for the wicked to have prospered without ever having paid the price I believe it is God’s way to give justice to those who have suffered by exacting a proportional payment from the wicked  

As to an argument that if punishment is not eternal then why would life be eternal? This would be valid if aion was the only word that could denote endless duration however scriptures also use other words to describe unending life; such as aphtharsia (incorruptible), athanasian (hath immortality), akataluton (imperishable), aphtharto (immortal)

This single misinterpretation has done more to dissuade many by impugning the character of God as one who demands unending torment not only the wicked, but the grandma who never heard of Jesus inconsistent with the character of God.

At the very least the fact that there remains debate on the certainty of the proper translation gives reason to at least question it. And while the traditional interpretation is possible, the alternative seems more in line with the character of God.

Wm

[NickHassan]

Hi ST,
I believe God will find every possible excuse for men to be saved because He is merciful.
But all?
no

[seekingtruth]

Nick,
I agree, I did not say all would be saved. Do you believe that God will torture people for eternity?

Wm

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