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Adam ……..I forgot to tell you what i think the second death means. I think it is when people in this life have not had there wills put to death, there wills will be put to death in the reserected second life, and this is the second death. They must experience a physical second death.
And another thing the word eternal is a mistranslated word from what i unstand it should be translated aon meaning age not everlasting like we translate its meanning.
Adam….ther is a wed site that really explains al lot about Eternal Hell Fire and free wills. Just type in, L. Ray Smith , and read some of his materials on the subject it quite inlighting. Also you can download audios and listen to some of them. Just go to Ray Smith / audios.
peace brother……………..gene
Thans Gene,
I appreciate your concern for me. I have been benefitted by your posts all the time. You have not touched the story of 'rich man & Lazarus'. Many times christians quote this story for life after death. Please throgh some light on this.
God bless you.
AdamGollamudi……..Lazarus and the rich man to me shows that suffering is very much part of what God wants us all to experience in this life and those who haven't will in the next life, but the bottom line is all suffer at one time or the other. Even Jesus a perfect Human learned obedience by the thing He suffered it says. But notice it doesn't say that the rich mans condition will be for ever does it. He wanted Abraham to sent Lazarus to His family and warn them, so he was developing so care for others in that place and He wasn't dead but under great stress by fire judgements and i believe he was having to be taught the lesson He never learned on earth in His First life., remember is a parable story and is symbolic not literal. I believe once He learn he will be delivered from there, Why? because God is not willing any parish.
IMO……peace to you and yours brother,……………..gene
Hades may very well be a place of suffering for the wicked, but it will not exists forever. Hades is thrown into the Lake of Fire, the same fire that will burn the old creation (Cosmos).
The old will pass away and all things will be new. A new Heavens and earth. This is the promise for those who are saved.
Eternal suffering is a form of eternal life, but in a fire. So that doesn't really make sense.
The wicked are actually destroyed and will perish. This is written that many times that you would have to write off the New Testament if you didn't believe that.
Even the most quoted verse says it. John 3:16.
T8………..the word for eternal is a mistranslation from the Greek ,it should be read (AGE) .
Do you believe for a moment that God will Throw His created children into a literal ever burning fire and watch them screaming into all eternity in agonizing pain. How can people even imagine such a thing, do you really think a God whose mane is Love would do that, total nonsense.Fact is there not one person that won't be saved eventually. “For every man's work will be tried by fire and if he has built with gold, silver, or precious stones, he shall receive a reward, but it he has built with straw, hay, or stubble, he shall suffer loss, (BUT) he shall be saved (YET) as BY FIRE, doesn't sound to me like he going to be thrown into a literal lake of fire and barbecued for all eternity.
It also says's our God is a consuming FIRE. Knowing this that the fiery trial that has tried you as if a strange thing has happened unto you. We are all destined for fiery trials the Saint's are going through them Now, the are need full for correction and disciplines . For God disciplines and (SCOURGES) every son He excepts, and that even included our Lord Jesus.
Fire is simple symbolic for intense judgment and discipline, used for correction. In revelation where it says's the smoke of there torment ascends up for ever and ever , means that the lessons learned will never be forgotten by them and will last in their lives for ever and we will all see these those changed by the fiery Judgments they went through and it will never be forgotten, thats the smoke that goes up for ever, smoke is what rises from Fire, righteousness is what rises from intense judgments and we all will go through them.
peace to you and your T8………..gene
No, I do not believe for a moment that God will Throw His created children into a literal ever burning fire and watch them screaming into all eternity in agonizing pain.
But I do believe that he will destroy the old creation with fire.
The key word is destroy. Not fire. The point is 'destruction of the old' being the outcome.
t8……that's true, the whole creation will be made new. God is not willing any Parish but all come to repentance, and thats exactly what will happen. Why?, because God (WORKS) all things after the council of His Own (WILL).
All will be saved (YET AS BY FIRE). John said, I indeed baptize with water but He who comes after me will baptize with Spirit and (FIRE).
There's hope for everyone because at the Judgment of God they will be cleansed and purified by intense judgments, the consuming fire of God, our God is a Consuming FIRE. Just as Gold is purified in Fire and the dross removed, so will mankind be purified by the fiery judgments of God.peace to you and yours…………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 22 2008,17:54) To all…… there is not greater lie told then our loving Father casting his childern into an ever burnning lake of fire and watching them burn up in everlasting pain and angony. These teachings are right from the mouth of Satan himself and are used by ” Christrdom” to inject fear into the hearts of people, which gives them power over the hearts and minds of people. Fear causes people no to question and stand up to their false teachings because most people don't really understand the bible and let these false teachers intrepadate them through fear. God the Father is the comsuming fire which will save (ALL) his creation through Judgements. God is able to cleans us all from our sins, once you understand that your hope and confidence in Him will grow and your joy will also. We have more going for us them we even begin to understand. Because we are all his childern and who every call on the name of the lord will be saved , just as it say's, (YET) as by (FIRE). peace and love to you all…………..gene
Greetings Gene….The pity is there are so many Liars about in this world…..Organized religion harbors a vast majority of them….If we can see God ( The Eternal )as he truly is,it will be very easy to dispell the myths created by various interpretations of isolated passages from a book whose very design was to confuse the learned and wise…Having said that …God being the loving mercifull being he truely is ,has a perfect plan for mankind and that is for all of us to become part of the God family….We must cultivate our faith to a point where we are as little children so as to enter into the kingdom (government of God)…We will all die and be raised again and be allowed to live under Gods perfect law,at which time,having lived and now knowing the truth ,we will have to make a decision whether to accept or reject Gods gift of salvation….There will those who elect not to….They are ones that will experience the lake of fire….and they will just cease to exist and not be tormented for eternity…Our God is mercifull God…theodorej……….well i agree with most of what you said except the last part, I believe if God wills no body parish, no body will either. If we remember (God causes salvation) and has concluded (ALL UNDER SIN) that He might have mercy on (ALL) that leaves no one out.
(WHOEVER calls on the name of the Lord (WILL) be saved,” (YET AS BY FIRE).
love and peace to you and yours……………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ May 05 2008,06:55) theodorej……….well i agree with most of what you said except the last part, I believe if God wills no body parish, no body will either. If we remember (God causes salvation) and has concluded (ALL UNDER SIN) that He might have mercy on (ALL) that leaves no one out. (WHOEVER calls on the name of the Lord (WILL) be saved,” (YET AS BY FIRE).
love and peace to you and yours……………………gene
Gene…what you are saying is correct in principle..and the term all is in fact inclusive. The mitigating circumstance is we All have free will and if we choose to accept Gods gift of salvation we will be saved…However if we choose to reject Gods gift we will cease to exist….We will be dead for eternity…theodorej………> I do not believe in (FREE WILL) at all it's not found no where in scriptures. I believe in only one will and thats God's. Get the true meaning of the word (GRACE) and you will see what i mean. Every thing is a mater of Cause and Effect. There is nothing that does not have a cause, and the effect is what happens and God will cause all men to be saved. He will not loose none of His creation and has concluded all under sin that he might have mercy on (ALL). God will deliver his whole creation from the bondage of corruption, all of it, which includes us also.
Peace to you and yours …………………….gene
God gave Adam the ability to choose.
We have that ability/gift. We are not robots, therefore to be a son or made in his image would not be befitting for a race of robots.
We choose our destiny, each one chooses.
Surely there will be those who choose to reject God knowingly. Their choice is sovereign just as those who choose to love God.
If we were robots, then we could just let go of all responsibility and wait for the latest download from God to make us right.
But if you were waiting for the program to save you, then in reality “you will probably here something like “take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents”.
t8…….So you think God gave Adam and Eve the ability to choose, I also believe they had the ability to choose, but the ability to choose has nothing to do with (FREE WILL). There choice was a caused choice, God first of all put the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil in front of them and even put the enticement there to partake of it.
For when they saw the fruit was good to make one (wise) they eat it. The cause was the enticement to be (wise )and the effect was they ate. Do you really think God didn't plan that to happen all alone, do you think it was a accident that they were enticed to eat the fruit. Do you think men do not gain wisdom from the experience of good and evil. Life consists of good and evil and therefore must be experienced or God would no have allowed it in the first place. Why do you think their eyes were opened (After) they ate, (wisdom ), demands understanding of good and evil, thats why their eyes were opened (After) they ate.
To say Adam and Eve did something horrible is wrong in fact they did exactly what God Knew they would do, and was needful to gain wisdom. Wisdom is something that must be learned in order for us to have the type of relationship with God He wants. Every think worked out exactly as God intended it to.
I know we like to think we are the captains of our destiny's, but that would make us, a GOD, wouldn't it.
And we may be more like a robot then we think, seeing that there is (ONLY) one will that will be done. If God were to empower me to be just like Him, that would be alright with me, in fact thats just exactly what He wants me to become , “be you Holy for I am Holy, be You Perfect for i am Perfect. Anyway the Father chooses to install that in me is fine with me.
People who think they are causing themselves to become righteous are Just playing God, and are not yielding to the will of God at all. Jesus said not my will but thy will be done, and if God is working in you then it's His Will thats being done, not you will. And His will operates through the power of His Spirit to (CAUSE) you to yield to Him. T8 we are not the captains of our destiny's as you think, for God works all thing after the council of HIS OWN WILL”> not yours or mine.
God does give talents and we driven by His Spirit to us them and if a person doesn't he still will be saved (YET AS BY FIRE). Man does not produce the spiritual works, God Spirit produces the works in man. “That God my be all and in all”. He doesn't need you or my permission for this He is God, we are His (CREATION) CREATED unto good works.
IMO…………gene
T8…………..> our choices is not sovereign, God is Sovereign , we did not choose to love God He chose to love us first and that caused us to love Him. T8, if God were to continue let our wills be the determining fact for things, there would continue to be total kayos in everything like it is now, only for ever, No man so called (FREE Will) will cease and only one will will be done, and thats GODS.
peace to you and yours …………….gene
I believe in free will, in so far as the choices given us.
I believe that souls are individual and grow and mature at different rates.
I believe God is patient enough to wait for even the most stubborn of souls to realize their errors and return freely to the Almighty.
I believe that no soul will spend an eternity in self destructive separation, that eventually like a stubborn child, wisdom will replace willfulness, and knowledge ignorance and that soul will ask God forgiveness and want to return to his love.
There are those who reject God for a time, but I doubt any will reject him forever, God is eternal he can wait until the soul is ready. God's will is law and I can not conceive he willed for any but 100% success in creation.Cato……..> i do agree with some of what you said, with the exception of (FREE WILLS) Wills yes, but to say they are free, NO.
All choices are the result of what was installed in a person at some time in there lives and when a person has to make a decision he pulls on these previously installed thoughts and derives a choice, and as a result influences our wills, so you see (FREE) has nothing to do with it, It's all cause and effect at work.
Thats why a man does not (freely choose God), The carnel mind is a ennemy of God is not subject to His laws neither indeed can be. Thats why God has to Choose us and begin to work in us, because we would never do it on our own, we simply are not born with the ability to choose God's way, it must be installed in Us.
That why Jesus said no man (CAN) come unto me (UNLESS) the Father drag Him. Our salvation is the result of cause and effect, not of our own Free Will Choices. I know this goes against the grain of man kind, because we like to think we are in charge of our ships, a God unto ourselves, but scripture plainly shows thats not true, we are the Clay and GOD is the POTTER and mold's us as (He) see fit rather we like it or not. He is the only true SOVEREIGNTY.
God conceder's our wants and desires and gives us that latitude as long as it within His Will, but if not then it will not continue to be allowed forever, rather we like it or not. God does not plead with mankind (to please choose to walk in his ways), He commands obedience as any Father has a right to. One of, if not the biggest Sin of man kind is not understanding the Sovereignty of The Father.
He says this is my way walk you in it, Not please if you freely choose to, our So called Free wills is are a opposition to Him, they always have been and still are. There is nothing (FREE) under the sun everything is the product of (CAUSE AND EFFECT) thats all there is there is nothing else.
IMO………gene
Amen my brother Gene,
Wonderful explanation, really it encourages me to thank God for taking control on my will and wish. Otherwise I could have been lost for ever. God has chosen us in his plan before the foundations of the earth. Where is the question of free will to come the saving knowledge of Christ.God bless you.
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ May 06 2008,20:23) Amen my brother Gene,
Wonderful explanation, really it encourages me to thank God for taking control on my will and wish. Otherwise I could have been lost for ever. God has chosen us in his plan before the foundations of the earth. Where is the question of free will to come the saving knowledge of Christ.God bless you.
Adam
Greetings G….It is not that easy….If God has control of will,how do explain the fact that you SIN…After all God can not live with sin or in sin..theodorej………the reason we still sin is because we still have sin in the carnal part of our minds driving our choices but the spiritual mind in drives our choices in a different direction, we are begotten children not yet born Children , the apostle Paul explains this war going on in our members. The Carnal Mind is contrary to the Spirit and subjects us at times. This will exist until we are resurrected and become Spirit beings and this (Carnal) flesh will not influence us any longer and cause us to sin. If you understand that all things are a result of Cause and Effect you can easily understand this.
Paul said with my mind i serve the laws of God, but with my flesh the law of sin and death. These two things are taking place in every Christian.
God has control of everything with out exceptions. Because he allows man limited freedom to exercise there carnal wills does not mean He isn't in control. When He intervenes in someones life it begins to change their wills to His, but that has nothing to do with (FREE WILL) at all. It's God's Will that will be done and not no mans so called free will.
There is (ONLY) one will that will be done and thats God's Will, and GOD causes that Will to be done in All. Jesus said that plainly, (THY) kingdom come, HOW? buy His WILL being Done. Our so called (FREE WILLS) has nothing to do with our salvation, It's God's Will, that saves us period.
That's all the so called “free will” ideology does is empower man and takes away the SOVEREIGNTY the One and ONLY True God.
“we are (HIS) workmanship (CREATED) unto good works”, again (CAUSE AND EFFECT) nothing free about it.
IMO…………..peace to you and yours theodorej……………gene
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