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Hey guys,
This is probably where I need to get off the bus. It's been a good ride while it lasted.
I'm not going to argue with anyone based on a Sola Scriptura presupposition.
Unless we can agree about the place of the Scriptures as written and intended, there is little we can accomplish here.
I pray something I said regarding the dangers of the Bible Alone will stick with you.
God love your souls!
I kind of thought you wouldn't last (which actually upsets me a bit.) There is a reason that despite their numbers, you basically never see Catholics on this discussion board–this board likes to discuss the Bible.
Bye CA
Quote I pray something I said regarding the dangers of the Bible Alone will stick with you. All I will remember about you (a Catholic) is what I seem to remember about the hundreds before you:
You don't actually want to discuss the Bible.
Well, you'll discuss it some, but when it gets in the way of what you actually believe, that the “end of the road,” as you say.Quote (CatholicApologist @ Aug. 26 2009,18:00) Hey guys, This is probably where I need to get off the bus. It's been a good ride while it lasted.
I'm not going to argue with anyone based on a Sola Scriptura presupposition.
Unless we can agree about the place of the Scriptures as written and intended, there is little we can accomplish here.
I pray something I said regarding the dangers of the Bible Alone will stick with you.
God love your souls!
So basically, the only point to staying around is if everyone will agree with your viewpoints?If you truly believe in whatever you believe in, you accomplish nothing by fleeing in the face of adversity.
There's a whole mix of people here, most of whom seem to disagree with most of the rest about most things.
Don't get me wrong though, I may have been brought up Roman Catholic as a child, but I'm not at all sorry I rejected it later – and hope I'd have rejected any religion. I'm not real keen on the whole brainwashing thing, and where other people tell me what to believe and do with my life.
Dear CA,
We have our resident athiest, JWs, fundamentalists of all stripes, pro and anti-trinitarians, etc., I myself often bring up points that mainstream believers would call heresy. Why not a resident Catholic? As far as the Bible, we do talk about other sources as well. One member used to bring up the book of Urantia, I have mentioned the I-Ching and Kabbalah, others talk about the Book of Enoch. I respect your decision either way, but your beliefs are probably closer to the majority here then my own and you have many points that are believed in by millions of people worldwide so you do have something to say and add in these forums.
Let the Pharisee go….there is a difference between the “traditions that you were taught” and the “traditions of men”
When he learns the difference…he will stop “shutting up the kingdom of heaven” to people like the Pharisee's did
DK……….I agree with you, CA gave (NO) Scriptural understanding Here at all, Just some Catholic self positioning as an authority of GOD'S word , but in fact produce nothing what so ever to back up his assertions. We have enough trouble trying to get straight facts from people who do use the scriptures , so we really don't need someone who doesn't use them at all, but just gives us their traditions who have there origins in pagan human reasonings. IMO
peace and love………………………….gene
Well, to be honest, if any of you had even engaged my line of logic I would probably still be here. But none of you have.
You can accuse me all day long for not approaching theology from a Sola Scriptura viewpoint. But I have no indication from any of you that you even GET where I am coming from. (Not to mention the absolute mystery of where any of you are coming from – you won't tell me will you?)
Having grown up in a pasor's home and having been a Protestant evangelist and pastor myself, the majority of my life has been spent “in the Scriptures. So I know the Scriptures extremely well.
However, if we cannot establish an equal footing of understanding… And if you cannot even try to refute my reasoning, I don't really see the point.
I have a moderator who won't answer a direct question and gives me a warning for calling someone here a “twit”. I have a non-Muslim who likes to quote the Quran as authoritative that I don't even know what he holds sacred or holy. I have a former Catholic lady from Germany who doesn't engage my questions, but throws out unfounded accusations against the Church (she claims we believe things we DON'T)….o yeah she won't answer direct questions. I've got another guy who has some nice manly fight in him (I like that) but thinks that because I won't answer him on the fallacious premise of Sola Scriptura that he CAN'T support, then I must not even know the Scriptures. Hogwash!
I just don't get the feel that you guys are being real honest with getting to the TRUTH. If I thought you were I'd still be hanging on.
I too am sorry things aren't different.
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Aug. 27 2009,04:18) Well, to be honest, if any of you had even engaged my line of logic I would probably still be here. But none of you have. You can accuse me all day long for not approaching theology from a Sola Scriptura viewpoint. But I have no indication from any of you that you even GET where I am coming from. (Not to mention the absolute mystery of where any of you are coming from – you won't tell me will you?)
Having grown up in a pasor's home and having been a Protestant evangelist and pastor myself, the majority of my life has been spent “in the Scriptures. So I know the Scriptures extremely well.
However, if we cannot establish an equal footing of understanding… And if you cannot even try to refute my reasoning, I don't really see the point.
I have a moderator who won't answer a direct question and gives me a warning for calling someone here a “twit”. I have a non-Muslim who likes to quote the Quran as authoritative that I don't even know what he holds sacred or holy. I have a former Catholic lady from Germany who doesn't engage my questions, but throws out unfounded accusations against the Church (she claims we believe things we DON'T)….o yeah she won't answer direct questions. I've got another guy who has some nice manly fight in him (I like that) but thinks that because I won't answer him on the fallacious premise of Sola Scriptura that he CAN'T support, then I must not even know the Scriptures. Hogwash!
I just don't get the feel that you guys are being real honest with getting to the TRUTH. If I thought you were I'd still be hanging on.
I too am sorry things aren't different.
If you don't believe in SS then you should definitely be open to the revelation of The Quran but as I have told you before you believe in Catholic ss in catholic documents onlyHi CA,
You will not persist if your basis is GREEK LOGIC as it does not compare with the rock of scripture we are meant to lay our foundation on.
We may not understand much of it but we do know it is the foundation God has chosen.Quote (Gene @ Aug. 27 2009,02:45) DK……….I agree with you, CA gave (NO) Scriptural understanding Here at all, Just some Catholic self positioning as an authority of GOD'S word , but in fact produce nothing what so ever to back up his assertions. We have enough trouble trying to get straight facts from people who do use the scriptures , so we really don't need someone who doesn't use them at all, but just gives us their traditions who have there origins in pagan human reasonings. IMO peace and love………………………….gene
Hey, I don't generally touch scriptures, do you want me to “get off the bus too” then?Didn't entirely agree with his complaining no one engaged his line of logic though, since nobody necessarily engages mine – and I think it's as much a symptom of using the wrong line of logic as any failure on the audience to engage in it.
To communicate effectively, you must first stand on common ground, after all.
Hi D and welcome,
Is that common ground not the foundation prescribed by Jesus-Scripture?
It should be the foundation rockQuote if any of you had even engaged my line of logic I would probably still be here. I will engage your line of logic.
First, what is it? Is it that of apostolic succesion and therefore what you say is right?
Is that your logic?
Quote And if you cannot even try to refute my reasoning, I don't really see the point. I have a moderator who won't answer a direct question and gives me a warning for calling someone here a “twit”.
Consider Nick (I assume it's him) a test,that will make you a stronger person. (just kiddin Nick.)
CA, tell us your reasoning. Is it apostolic succession?
Hi CA:
I love you and desire God's very best for you and your family, and I am praying that God will give you revelation knowledge of the truth.
God is calling His people out of Babylonia which is the confusion caused by the Catholic church and her doctrines.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (CatholicApologist @ Aug. 26 2009,18:00) Hey guys, This is probably where I need to get off the bus. It's been a good ride while it lasted.
I'm not going to argue with anyone based on a Sola Scriptura presupposition.
Unless we can agree about the place of the Scriptures as written and intended, there is little we can accomplish here.
I pray something I said regarding the dangers of the Bible Alone will stick with you.
God love your souls!
Hi CA,
Is the role of scripture to you just as one of many references used that must be interpreted according to your tradition and only insofar as it supports your doctrines?Is that what the Lord Jesus wants?
Okay, what is this?
CA…..I've been on this board for a couple years now. I can assure you that we get down to discussing the nitty-gritty. Whenever you deal with people, you have to sort through the ego's. But there are some really amazing things that happen on this board. It's a wonderful way to keep your answers for your faith – fresh.
I surely understand if you want to leave. But I suggest you hang on for a bit longer. Your instant popularity maybe has taken it's toll on you? Perhaps a rest? But don't leave…… It sounds like David is willing to meet you half-way? He is an excellent one to debate with, and what an interesting debate that would be, too (a Catholic, and a Jehovah's Witness).
Sigh… Anyway, thanks for giving us a try. You may want to pop in every now and then. I was hoping to engage you on the Trinity, but it looks like we may not get that far?
Love you,
MandyQuote He is an excellent one to debate with, and what an interesting debate that would be, too (a Catholic, and a Jehovah's Witness). I'm not sure why you'd think that would be an interesting debate.
Here is how it goes:
Me: The Bible says…
Him: We have to also consider tradition.
Me: But the Bible says this about tradition…
Him: The Bible isn't the only source of religious truth..
Me: The Bible says you're wrong.
Him: The Pope says you're wrong.
Me: I know you are but what am I?
Him: Someone who is going to burn…
Me: The Bible says you're wrong.
Him: Goodbye.
Me: Wait, this is fun.
Him: Silence.I've had this conversation many times before, but in real life they don't tend to last long.
What I find interesting is, that being a former Catholic, who grew up as a Catholic in a 75% Catholic town, going to a Catholic school, with Catholic friends, everyone I knew was Catholic….in all that time, I never actually had a dicussion with a Catholic about any religious topic ever, until I went A-wall.Quote (david @ Aug. 27 2009,18:09) Quote He is an excellent one to debate with, and what an interesting debate that would be, too (a Catholic, and a Jehovah's Witness). I'm not sure why you'd think that would be an interesting debate.
Here is how it goes:
Me: The Bible says…
Him: We have to also consider tradition.
Me: But the Bible says this about tradition…
Him: The Bible isn't the only source of religious truth..
Me: The Bible says you're wrong.
Him: The Pope says you're wrong.
Me: I know you are but what am I?
Him: Someone who is going to burn…
Me: The Bible says you're wrong.
Him: Goodbye.
Me: Wait, this is fun.
Him: Silence.I've had this conversation many times before, but in real life they don't tend to last long.
What I find interesting is, that being a former Catholic, who grew up as a Catholic in a 75% Catholic town, going to a Catholic school, with Catholic friends, everyone I knew was Catholic….in all that time, I never actually had a dicussion with a Catholic about any religious topic ever, until I went A-wall.
You know, David, you were the guy I was tempted to stay on and debate. I think the moderator dude was getting under my skin. He's kind of hard to not get annoyed at.Sorry, Nick, you deserve the truth.
Fine. How do we delete this thread?
I'm willing to give this another go. I've talked to so many JW's, David should be no different.
He likes to talk about the Bible a lot. But has he ever told you that he believes that Jesus is really Michael the Archangel? His people used to be together with the Seventh Day Adventists.
O we could spend some time talking about Charles Taze Russell and his wacky pyramidology. (which is why his earlier quote from his bible version read “capstone” instead of “cornerstone”) We could talk about a myriad of prophecies about the end of the world that never came to pass. O, and then there is Judge Rutherford. What a guy.
So let's see how much he really does like the Bible.
O, btw, “Jehovah” or “YHWH” isn't Greek. So what in the world is it doing in your NT?
So you see, I'm not running from a discussion that I've had many times before. I just didn't think he was listening.
We'll see if he is.
Quote (Douglas @ Aug. 26 2009,19:01) Quote (CatholicApologist @ Aug. 26 2009,18:00) Hey guys, This is probably where I need to get off the bus. It's been a good ride while it lasted.
I'm not going to argue with anyone based on a Sola Scriptura presupposition.
Unless we can agree about the place of the Scriptures as written and intended, there is little we can accomplish here.
I pray something I said regarding the dangers of the Bible Alone will stick with you.
God love your souls!
So basically, the only point to staying around is if everyone will agree with your viewpoints?If you truly believe in whatever you believe in, you accomplish nothing by fleeing in the face of adversity.
There's a whole mix of people here, most of whom seem to disagree with most of the rest about most things.
Don't get me wrong though, I may have been brought up Roman Catholic as a child, but I'm not at all sorry I rejected it later – and hope I'd have rejected any religion. I'm not real keen on the whole brainwashing thing, and where other people tell me what to believe and do with my life.
Good thing that you left that Church, so did we, my Husband and I. You are right you can't tell a Catholic what is right and wrong. Their believe is that they are the only true Church. Boy am I going to be glad when Christ comes back to straighten all out. No more confusion on anything. Only the truth will be taught.
Peace and Love Irene
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