Emmanuel

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 01 2011,03:53)

Quote (kerwin @ June 01 2011,01:08)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 31 2011,14:10)

Hebrews 12:2
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
Another question, If Jesus is the Author than what is God if he is seperate being from christ?

God is the Inspiration of the Author and the Strategist behind the plan that is finished by Jesus.

Kerwin,
Thats not quoted in scripture.

What do you think the logos is?

Why do you think Jesus is called the mediator?

Jesus is after all the means by which the deep things of God are revealed through the Spirit of God to those that believe .

Scripture does declare God planned Jesus' roll in salvation before the creation of the world.

June 1, 2011 at 7:42 am#247503

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2011,08:16)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 31 2011,02:10)

You post a scripture that clearly lists Jesus as someone OTHER THAN GOD, and then ask that question? Too funny.

D, GOD is the One whose right hand Jesus is sitting at. Do you think GOD is sitting at His own right hand?

Hi Mike,

1.Why didnt you answer the initial thread?

2. You believe that God has a literal Right hand?
Jokes on you bud…. :laugh: :laugh:
Does “power” have a right side too?

June 1, 2011 at 7:48 am#247504

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ June 01 2011,10:30)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 01 2011,03:53)

Quote (kerwin @ June 01 2011,01:08)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 31 2011,14:10)

God is the Inspiration of the Author and the Strategist behind the plan that is finished by Jesus.

Kerwin,
Thats not quoted in scripture.

What do you think the logos is?

Why do you think Jesus is called the mediator?

Jesus is after all the means by which the deep things of God are revealed through the Spirit of God to those that believe .

Scripture does declare God planned Jesus' roll in salvation before the creation of the world.

Kerwin,
Your missing the point im making.
Your statement is not whats stated in scripture but your own speculation.

but let me answer your questions:
1. Logos is Jesus, which doesnt reflect why Hebrews claim that he is the Author and Finisher as well.
2. Jesus is also Called the Mediator, which doesnt reflect why Hebrews claim that he is the Author and Finisher as well.
3. And I agree that Jesus is the revelation of God almighty, the knowable of the unknowable, but again doesnt reflect why Hebrews claim that he is the Author and Finisher as well.
4. and Of course its all predistend but again doesnt reflect why Hebrews claim that he is the Author and Finisher as well.

Do you understand what im trying to get at?
You stated that “God is the Inspiriation” of the Author. Either you can provide a biblical reference to show that Jesus as the Author was inspiried by God, or its pure speculation.

Not that it isnt true, or that I disagree or agree.
Simply what you stated, needs either more emphaiss for the sake of clarification or some warrents to back it up.

June 1, 2011 at 9:39 am#247514

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 01 2011,08:53)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 31 2011,03:10)

Hi Dennison

Excellent Point.

But it is overlooked by those who insist that Jesus is merely a funnel of some kind, or a puppet on a string who has no substance of his own.

Everything that comes to us from God comes from Jesus to us and that makes him our source as well as the Father. For Jesus said “ALL THINGS ARE IN MY HANDS” AND “ALL THAT THE FATHER HAS IS MINE”. John 3:35 – John 10:28 – John 16:15 – Luke 10:22 – Matt 28:18

Therefore every thing that I recieve from God I recieve from Jesus. Hello?

Jesus said he is the “LIFE”. John 14:6

We exist because of Jesus. 1 Cor 8:6

IMO you have to be blind to not see who and what Jesus really is. Oh thats right Jesus said they would be blind and die in their sins unless they repent and believe that he is “I Am”.

If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. (John 5:46)

In the old testament, Moses was clearly writing about The Lord God (Jehovah). Yet Jesus clearly states Moses was writing about himself.

So many scriptural proof texts that Jesus is God.

Blessings!

Keith

WJ: Excellent post. I agree with your view. I truly don't know why there is an attempt to divide Jesus from God.
In this world of duality it is a bit hard to grasp “ONENESS” I admit. But for me there seems to be far more scripture, most of it from Jesus that declares he, the Father and believers as one. If a person sees Jesus apart from God or separate then they also would be separate from God.

I think you are right on target. IMO, TK

June 1, 2011 at 2:50 pm#247528

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Thanks Tim!

June 1, 2011 at 3:00 pm#247529

csaliba

Participant

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 01 2011,18:48)

Quote (kerwin @ June 01 2011,10:30)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 01 2011,03:53)

Quote (kerwin @ June 01 2011,01:08)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 31 2011,14:10)

God is the Inspiration of the Author and the Strategist behind the plan that is finished by Jesus.

Kerwin,
Thats not quoted in scripture.

What do you think the logos is?

Why do you think Jesus is called the mediator?

Jesus is after all the means by which the deep things of God are revealed through the Spirit of God to those that believe .

Scripture does declare God planned Jesus' roll in salvation before the creation of the world.

Kerwin,
Your missing the point im making.
Your statement is not whats stated in scripture but your own speculation.

Not that it isnt true, or that I disagree or agree.
Simply what you stated, needs either more emphaiss for the sake of clarification or some warrents to back it up.

Hi SV.and all,

Gnerali speaking I agree with both you,W J. That Jesus is God in Flesh.

With every respect Tim, and Kerwin,you are full of immaginations and also you have created a new Jesus according to your taste, and that kind of Jesus is not the one who died on the cross. One more think, there 's enough scripture to be convinced about who was, and also who is Jesus.But unless you read the right scriptures,rely totally on the Holy Spirit, reflect,pray,meditate,and also live within the laws,not of Moses,not of your Jesus,but of Jesus the one according to the Gospel, I'm afraid that you will be disapointed when it will be your turn.

Now read this scripture,which it is clear what Jesus became through His Glorification by the power of the Holy Spirit from the Father.

1Timothy 1

But for this cause have I obtained mercy: that in me first Christ Jesus might shew forth all patience, for the information of them that shall believe in him unto life everlasting. 17 Now to the king of ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

We should make it more clear that Jesus was totally,and I repeat totally depending on His Father till He glorified for the simple reason that ,although sinless,He was born in human corrupted flesh,massacred it, and changed it completely to a spiritual flesh to become the only one being God in flesh.

Through the same process the Father also is glorified, and temporay,is one with the Son, two to become one, flesh and spirit. the flesh belong to Jesus,

( the real bread which came down from heaven, not in the immaginations or spiritual of Tim,and Kerwin, but real bread, who wants to beleive it, since the people of god of the old testament ate real bread in the manna,we as Christians the people of God of the new testament( who beleive) also are eating the proper bread from heaven)

and the Spirit belong to the Father.Who is part of the bread from heaven,the only food which purifies us both in Soul and in flesh!! But on the last day The Father will become the Almighty God in Flesh,all in Him.all subject to Him.

Peace,and Love in Our Lord Jesus Christ

Charles

June 2, 2011 at 3:34 am#247616

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 01 2011,01:42)

1.Why didnt you answer the initial thread?

Because I'm not interested in this pointless discussion. Immanuel means “God is with us”. Shall I post a list of others in scripture whose names say similar things about “YHWH” or “God”, even though they are ALSO not God Almighty?

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 01 2011,01:42)

2. You believe that God has a literal Right hand?

Is that really your answer to my post? What – you couldn't actually address the FACT that “GOD” is listed as someone OTHER THAN “Jesus” in the very scripture YOU quoted?

And don't you know what “right hand” implies, D? It doesn't really matter if it's referring to a physical right hand or a metaphorical one. The implication is the same either way. Jesus is God's “right hand man” – the one who was placed in a position of high honor by the One who is in the even higher postition of being able to appoint someone to His right hand.

It's meant the same thing throughout history – and still does today.

(Btw, I will accept the word of God like a child. So if scripture says God has a right hand, I accept that He does.)

mike

June 2, 2011 at 3:39 am#247617

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (Tim Kraft @ June 01 2011,03:39)

I truly don't know why there is an attempt to divide Jesus from God.

Hi Tim,

Is it not clear to you that Jesus and God are two separate individuals?

June 2, 2011 at 6:29 am#247630

Participant

Quote (csaliba @ June 01 2011,20:00)

Hi SV.and all,

Gnerali speaking I agree with both you,W J. That Jesus is God in Flesh.

Hi csaliba,

Thank you for agreeing, hope to hear more from you.

June 2, 2011 at 6:56 am#247632

Participant

Hi Mike,

Quote

Just because you think its pointless doesnt make it so.
Lets consider netnotes:
Emmanuel = “God with us” 1) the title applied to the Messiah, born of the virgin, Mt 1:23, Isa 7:14, because Jesus was God united with man, and showed that God was dwelling with man
And where does it say “is” with us? I dont see that word there orginally in the greek texts espeacily when the interpretation of the name is already given.
Here is the point that Jesus was never Called Emmanuel but ONCE in scripture and the interpretation is GIVEN. No one called him emmanuel, yet if Emmanuel wasnt used as a name than what was the purpose of even mentioning such a name unless it describes who He Is.

Dont judge a book by its cover mike.

Quote

Is that really your answer to my post?

What – you couldn't actually address the FACT that “GOD” is listed as someone OTHER THAN “Jesus” in the very scripture YOU quoted?

It's meant the same thing throughout history – and still does today.

(Btw, I will accept the word of God like a child. So if scripture says God has a right hand, I accept that He does.)

mike

Actually My question had nothing to do with what you stated, and It was a question of importance.
If you believe that God and Jesus are seperate beings, than if Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our salvation, than what is God?
Thats the question I posed.

Well mike I of course know what Right hand means, but when you wrote that “Do you think GOD is sitting at His own right hand?” gave me a flashback of when i was debating this Jehovah witness at my job and the guy went crazy, sat on top of a table and SAT on his HANDS and said “Do you really believe that God sits on his own right hand” and I of course replied with that famous smirk of mine ” do you actaully believe that God has a literal right hand?”
We never discussed God again after that day, frankly the guy was annoying.

I dont believe History or the natural things that mankind does apply to God.
Being in the right hand of power, or the right hand of the throne of God which in Revelations only proves that there is only one throne only shows that its not what you think it means.

Of course, I already made a thread about this subject, and as the creator of this thread i dont want to go off topic.

So stick to the flow of the convo.

June 2, 2011 at 8:22 am#247640

Participant

Dennison,

I do not believe you are following my reasoning. Bellow I have quoted your points and then answered them.

Quote

Logos is Jesus, which doesn’t reflect why Hebrews claim that he is the Author and Finisher as well.

Scripture does not state the Logos of God is Jesus though in Revelations 19:13 it does state that that the Logos of God is one of his many titles.

I was not speaking of Logos in the context of being a title but rather in the context of its definition as “of the moral precepts given by God”. I used deep things of God” as a paraphrase of that meaning as such is written in 1 Corinthians 2:10.

If you take 1 Corinthians 2:10 in context you will discover that only the Spirit of God knows the deep things of God and those to who God gives them.

So obviously the inspiration of Jesus is God since by the Spirit God revealed the deep things of God to Jesus the Author and through Jesus by the same spirit to all that have ears to hear that logos.

Jesus is also called the Mediator, which doesn’t reflect why Hebrews claim that he is the Author and Finisher as well.

A mediator is the intervening agent and thus Jesus is the intervening agent as he is the means by which the deep things of God are revealed to us by the Spirit of God.

Jesus is the author of our faith because he is the one who expresses our deep things of God in rhema form. The Spirit of God is called the Rhema of God in Ephe4sians 6:17. I am defining the Common Greek word Rhema to mean “a declaration of one's mind made in words”.

He is the Finisher because he is the means by which the plan of God is finished.

Quote

3. And I agree that Jesus is the revelation of God almighty, the knowable of the unknowable, but again doesn’t reflect why Hebrews claim that he is the Author and Finisher as well.

I believe I already addressed this by my answers to your previous points.

Quote

4. And Of course it’s all predestined but again doesn’t reflect why Hebrews claim that he is the Author and Finisher as well.

Jesus is the Finisher of that predestined plan.

[quoute]Do you understand what I’m trying to get at?
You stated that “God is the Inspiration” of the Author. Either you can provide a biblical reference to show that Jesus as the Author was inspired by God, or its pure speculation.

I believe I do but I also believe that you do not comprehend my answer. It is my thought that I am assuming you know something you either do not or are not recalling. I have to figure out what that is.

1 Corinthians 2:10-13 is the scripture I am using as evidence that God inspires Jesus even though it does not literally state that. It does state that the Spirit of God reveals the deep things of God to those that have the Spirit of God. It does not state, but I assume you understand that it is by Jesus that those that believe receive the Spirit of God. I am stating he is the Author because he is the means by which God reveals the deep things of God to believers. God inspires Jesus because he is the drive behind Jesus even as Jesus states elsewhere that he obeys the commands of God because he loves God. ‘

REFERENCES

1 Corinthians 2:10(King James Version (KJV))

10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

1 Corinthians 2(King James Version (KJV))

10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Revelation 19:13(King James Version (KJV))

13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Ephesians 6:17(King James Version (KJV))

17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

June 2, 2011 at 10:17 am#247645

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 02 2011,14:39)

Quote (Tim Kraft @ June 01 2011,03:39)

I truly don't know why there is an attempt to divide Jesus from God.

Hi Tim,

Is it not clear to you that Jesus and God are two separate individuals?

Hey Mike: This is a very deep subject. I see the term “God” as absolute, all-inclusive life source, who's esscence of life and love is moving forward into ever-creation of assorted life forms.

I believe that everything that is, came from God. God is energy which cannot be created further nor destroyed, yet it can be moulded and transformed into infinant life forms.

I see God like a diamond. ONE stone with billions of facets of light or aspects life. All that are in ONE stone. If you believe that God is eveywhere and that you can speak to God at any time, where ever you are, then there is ONE, God, source of living energy, spawning and creating more and different life forms within itself! Where would God not be? God is where you are!!

In science the newer Quantum Theories are proving the ONE existence of all life! All joined through entanglement at 0-point energy in a living flowing plasmic substance of life.

God is absolute! There is no description for what is indescribable. Life goes on and furthers itself. Death is an illusion of man, that life, eventually ceases to exist. God is forever. Death is not truth. When mankind chooses not to believe in death, it will no longer exist.

Paul said in Cor.12:4…all same spirit, v5, same lord, v6 same God which worketh all in all. V12, as the body is one so is Christ, one.V13, by one spirit we are all baptized into one body.

More importantly is the disertation of Jesus at John the 15h Chap. In the parable of the vine/Jesus and we the branches. A branch cannot be separate from a tree. The tree is its life source. We are tapped into God/source. We breath source of life. ONE lord, ONE God, ONE source of life, billions of aspects.

If God/life is everywhere then there is nothing outside of God but wrong thinking/darkness and gnashing of teeth.

You, me, Jesus and all who are alive, are in God and have God in them. If they believe it, they can live it. If they don't believe it, they remain in error/sin/believing incorrectly. If one believes he is separated from life he is headed for death!
IMO, TK

June 2, 2011 at 11:07 am#247648

Participant

csaliba: You said,…With every respect Tim, and Kerwin,you are full of immaginations and also you have created a new Jesus according to your taste, and that kind of Jesus is not the one who died on the cross. One more think, there 's enough scripture to be convinced about who was, and also who is Jesus.But unless you read the right scriptures,rely totally on the Holy Spirit, reflect,pray,meditate,and also live within the laws,not of Moses,not of your Jesus,but of Jesus the one according to the Gospel, I'm afraid that you will be disapointed when it will be your turn….!

An interesting choice of words. Everything that anybody knows about God or Jesus is imagined! Its all in the mind/heart! Knowing is thinking and thinking is mental. The words of God were sent to mentally dark religious people whose imaginations were dull, sinful, dark, untruth, unworthy, unclean, unrighteous and full of death, which is disconnected with God/life. So, how would we find out about Jesus who was sent from God with Gods words for mankind. How did Jesus find the words of God? Did he not search the scriptures! Did Jesus not fill himself with the truth of God?
Did Jesus come to earth fully programed with the words/spirit of God? No, he learned from his father, God! In his imagination/mind/heart!

To create a new Jesus according to my own taste, I would first have to stop reading the Gospels where the teachings of Jesus are revealed. All the other writings in the Bible are mans ideas about Jesus. What Jesus came to give to mankind he gave while he was alive and walking the planet. I truly do not know what you think my “taste” in Jesus is. I do know that the name, Jesus, is used widely on this site but it is usually quoting something by another disciple about Jesus. If you would read what Jesus actually says you would find much taught about the mind, thinking, words and heart desires. Apart from imaginations you cannot know anything spiritual.

I wonder just how well you really know Jesus? If you can only find his truth apart from the Gospels, maybe you best change what you study. What Jesus says is lord of my life. No other follower of Christ is lord for me. If it doesn't align with Jesus I cannot accept it.

Also, please expound on what you meant by “I'm afraid you will be disapointed when it is your turn….” What “turn”?

If there is truly an error in my doctrines from Jesus please state it plainly and I will reply and learn. Thank you, TK

June 2, 2011 at 7:16 pm#247680

Participant

Bump for Tim Kraft.

June 2, 2011 at 9:03 pm#247692

Participant

Whats a “bump” ? TK

June 2, 2011 at 9:47 pm#247694

Participant

means that u havent answered my post tk. just brinigin it to ur attention

June 3, 2011 at 4:50 am#247742

Participant

Dennison,

I am sorry as I was mistaken about the meaning of the word author. Instead of meaning writer it means prince or captain. Finisher is a synonym of Perfector.

I checked the common Greek words and their meaning. Hebrews 2:10 explains what author means as the same common Greek word is translated to captain in that verse.

The common Greek word translated finisher only appears once in the New Testiment but a related word sometimes translated “finish” appears a number of time including in Hebrews 2:10 where it is translated to “perfect”. It also appears in Hebrews 12:23 where it is also translated “perfect”

I use the Greek Lexicon at searchgodsword.org to gain understanding of what the meaning of words used in scripture are.

June 3, 2011 at 5:06 am#247743

Participant

Quote (csaliba @ June 01 2011,21:00)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 01 2011,18:48)

Quote (kerwin @ June 01 2011,10:30)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 01 2011,03:53)

Quote (kerwin @ June 01 2011,01:08)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ May 31 2011,14:10)

God is the Inspiration of the Author and the Strategist behind the plan that is finished by Jesus.

Kerwin,
Thats not quoted in scripture.

What do you think the logos is?

Why do you think Jesus is called the mediator?

Jesus is after all the means by which the deep things of God are revealed through the Spirit of God to those that believe .

Scripture does declare God planned Jesus' roll in salvation before the creation of the world.

Kerwin,
Your missing the point im making.
Your statement is not whats stated in scripture but your own speculation.

Not that it isnt true, or that I disagree or agree.
Simply what you stated, needs either more emphaiss for the sake of clarification or some warrents to back it up.

Hi SV.and all,

Gnerali speaking I agree with both you,W J. That Jesus is God in Flesh.

Now read this scripture,which it is clear what Jesus became through His Glorification by the power of the Holy Spirit from the Father.

1Timothy 1

Through the same process the Father also is glorified, and temporay,is one with the Son, two to become one, flesh and spirit. the flesh belong to Jesus,

Peace,and Love in Our Lord Jesus Christ

Charles

Charles I am sorry I missed this post of yours.

I have no idea what you believe 1 Timothy 16-17 is saying so please sharte it as I cannot read your mind. It is also my belief that it is best if you include verses 12-15 with verses 16-17 as they all speak of the same topic.

The Spirit of God is to God as the spirit of a man is to a man and the spirit of a man belongs to a man so we do not disagree on that.

Jesus reveals the deep things of God for the Spirit of God dwells in him and he walks according to its ways.

In that way God is with him for God lives in him through his Spirit.

June 3, 2011 at 6:22 am#247746

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ June 03 2011,09:50)

Dennison,

I am sorry as I was mistaken about the meaning of the word author. Instead of meaning writer it means prince or captain. Finisher is a synonym of Perfector.

I checked the common Greek words and their meaning. Hebrews 2:10 explains what author means as the same common Greek word is translated to captain in that verse.

I use the Greek Lexicon at searchgodsword.org to gain understanding of what the meaning of words used in scripture are.

Hi Kerwin,
Im not sure how to respond because it seems that your arguements are not consistent within your two posts.

I never meat “author” as a literal writer, but more as a title of beign the “orginator” which is one of the defintions.

And Of course “teleious” represents the “full maturity” the “compelete” “lacking nothing”
in other words Finisher, or Perfector.

From there on, Im not sure what your argueing about anymore.
Now that we agree on terms, are you going to restate your case of why out think “God is the Inspiriation of the Author?”
or are you concedeing the point because “author” its not literal?

June 3, 2011 at 8:20 am#247756