Elohim is plural

Participant

Jodi Lee said:

Quote

Ex 7:1 So the Lord said to Moses: “See, I have made you as God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet.

YHWH the ONE TRUE God the Father, made Moses a God unto pharaoh, for God gave Moses His powers to perform signs and wonders.

This is the same unto Jesus our Messiah, God made him a God to us, for God gave Jesus His powers to perform signs, wonders and miracles.

John 10:32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” 33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, 'I said, “You are gods” '? 35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'? 37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”

Quite clear here that in the Old Testament we see that YHWH called MEN Gods, for they performed powers through Him, and thus they were seen as Gods.

Jodi,
Your treatment of the scriptures is pretexting. You take it all out of context. First, the scripture says that Christ is “counted worthy” of much more glory than Moses:

Quote

For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. 4 For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God. (Hebrews 3:3-4)

It says that Christ is “counted worthy” of the glory of the builder and that the builder is God. So Christ is counted worthy of EQUAL glory with God.

Second, Hebrews 1 applies the term “God” in a much greater sense then it was applied to men and angels.

Quote

After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.
For to which of the angels did God ever say,

“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”? (Hebrews 1:3-5)

Note that His name “begotten Son” indicates that He is “so much superior to the angels.” Then the Father called Him “God” in verse 8. Think it through. If the name “begotten Son” means that He is so much superior to the angels, then the name “God” is being applied in a much greater sense than it was applied to men before Him. Then it goes on to say that the Father attributed the whole creation to the Son,

Quote

“You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands (Heb. 1:10)

If the name “begotten Son” indicates that he is superior to men and angels, then the name “God” in reference to Him is used in a much greater sense than it was used of men and angels.

PLEASE TRY TO COMMENT ON “GOD” IN REFERENCE TO CHRIST IN CONTEXT!

We agree that Jesus while in the days of His flesh did not rely on His own power but submitted Himself to the power of God. So it is not necessary to keep repeating this principle.

Please scroll up and note my reply to your treatment of 1 John 5.

thinker

August 12, 2009 at 12:40 pm#140762

Participant

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 12 2009,19:15)

Jodi Lee said:

Quote

Ex 7:1 So the Lord said to Moses: “See, I have made you as God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet.

YHWH the ONE TRUE God the Father, made Moses a God unto pharaoh, for God gave Moses His powers to perform signs and wonders.

This is the same unto Jesus our Messiah, God made him a God to us, for God gave Jesus His powers to perform signs, wonders and miracles.

Quite clear here that in the Old Testament we see that YHWH called MEN Gods, for they performed powers through Him, and thus they were seen as Gods.

Jodi,
Your treatment of the scriptures is pretexting. You take it all out of context. First, the scripture says that Christ is “counted worthy” of much more glory than Moses:

Quote

It says that Christ is “counted worthy” of the glory of the builder and that the builder is God. So Christ is counted worthy of EQUAL glory with God.

Second, Hebrews 1 applies the term “God” in a much greater sense then it was applied to men and angels.

Quote

“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”? (Hebrews 1:3-5)

Quote

“You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands (Heb. 1:10)

If the name “begotten Son” indicates that he is superior to men and angels, then the name “God” in reference to Him is used in a much greater sense than it was used of men and angels.

PLEASE TRY TO COMMENT ON “GOD” IN REFERENCE TO CHRIST IN CONTEXT!

We agree that Jesus while in the days of His flesh did not rely on His own power but submitted Himself to the power of God. So it is not necessary to keep repeating this principle.

Please scroll up and note my reply to your treatment of 1 John 5.

thinker

Greetings Thinker……I must say I am overwhelmed with the vast amount information you can spew out at any given time, coupled with your unyielding style of discourse clearly sets you apart as a true authority on just about anything…”Blessed are the Humble…For they shall be exalted”

Allow me to pen the essense of our modern day education…
One memorizes the text…then proceeds to take the written test and passes…the end result is you get a piece of paper attesting to your brillience….My question is ?? What do we really know…

August 12, 2009 at 1:09 pm#140764

Participant

teodorei! What do you mean what do we really know? As far as I am concerned God has revealed to me some real good doctrines. We ( and I said this before) came out of the Catholic Church, and that in itself is that God has to call one first. It was mainly to learn that there is no trinity and that Maria did not stay a Virgin. The last truth was that Jesus preexisted His Birth as a man. I had no idea what Elohim mean, or even Jehovah, and much more.
Those are some good things, so what do you really know?
Peace and Love Irene

August 12, 2009 at 1:18 pm#140766

Participant

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 12 2009,18:37)

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 12 2009,16:02)

I might add that we ask in Jesus Christ our Mediator. Because He was perfect and did not sin , we have Him as a Mediator between the Father and us. No other sacrifice needed.
We can now go directly to the Throne of God our Father and ask for the forgiveness of our sins.
That is the way I pray.
Irene

Irene,
If we can go directly to the throne of the Father then we don't need to come THROUGH Christ. You has just eliminated the need for Christ altogether. Btw, Hebrews 1:8 says that it is the Son's throne. The Father said to Him, “YOUR throne O God….”

One the one side of your mouth you say that Christ is our Mediator. On the other side you say that we can go directly to the Father. Which is it?

thinker

thimker You are misrepresent me by saying what you did. Also read my post again, I said that we go through Jesus our Mediator to go to the Throne of God. Before Jesus dead and resurrection nobody could do so, only th High Priest could go and sacrifice an offering first and go to the Holy of Hollies and ask for their forgiveness of sins. No more other Sacrifice's needed. Get it dude.
Irene

August 12, 2009 at 1:27 pm#140768

Participant

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 13 2009,01:09)

Greetings…..What we really know is what our spirit causes us to believe with unwavering conviction….Spewing parotically does not demonstrate spiritual knowledge….

August 12, 2009 at 1:43 pm#140770

Participant

Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 13 2009,01:27)

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 13 2009,01:09)

Greetings…..What we really know is what our spirit causes us to believe with unwavering conviction….Spewing parotically does not demonstrate spiritual knowledge….

I always thought once God has revealed a truth to us, it is delivering us from a false doctrine, and we are committed in that doctrine. Not only that we can teach others, if they have an open mind, the truth. You mean some of the Brethren just know and don't know how to prove all? That is what the Bereans did and so should we.
Peace and Love Irene

August 12, 2009 at 1:56 pm#140773

Participant

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 13 2009,01:43)

Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 13 2009,01:27)

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 13 2009,01:09)

Greetings…..What we really know is what our spirit causes us to believe with unwavering conviction….Spewing parotically does not demonstrate spiritual knowledge….

Irene….See !! we are on the same page….it is always a pleasure!

August 12, 2009 at 2:04 pm#140774

Participant

Good Morning all, the following scriptures work well together in showing us that Jesus our Messiah was our savior through the plan and work of the Father. Both the Father and Jesus Christ are said in scripture to be our savior.

1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life– 2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us– 3 that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things we write to you that your joy may be full.

1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Titus 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness, 2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began, 3 but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior;

Jesus was NOT the God who promised eternal life in the beginning, he was the means to come, by which God would fulfill that promise.

1 Peter 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

God raised Jesus from the dead and gave Jesus the glory of eternal life, that we may have faith and hope in God, NOT himself. Jesus came to reveal the Father, not himself.

Jesus came and spoke the words of the Father and did the work of the Father and did the will of the Father so that we may know the ONE TRUE God the Father.

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. 21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree. 31 Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

YHWH is certainly not Jesus. YHWH is the One TRUE God the Father, and he raised up Jesus and exalted him to His right hand to be our savior. God MADE Jesus our savior. Jesus did NOTHING of himself.

Ac 13:23 From this man's seed, according to the promise, God raised up for Israel a Savior–Jesus—

Jesus is our savior but it is ONLY through the planning and the works of the One TRUE God the Father.

August 12, 2009 at 2:08 pm#140775

Participant

Greetings Jodi……. Could Elohim also refer to Family….eg. The God family….Members of which we have an opportunity to become??

August 12, 2009 at 2:25 pm#140776

Participant

Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 13 2009,00:40)

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 12 2009,19:15)

Jodi Lee said:

Quote

Ex 7:1 So the Lord said to Moses: “See, I have made you as God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet.

YHWH the ONE TRUE God the Father, made Moses a God unto pharaoh, for God gave Moses His powers to perform signs and wonders.

This is the same unto Jesus our Messiah, God made him a God to us, for God gave Jesus His powers to perform signs, wonders and miracles.

Quite clear here that in the Old Testament we see that YHWH called MEN Gods, for they performed powers through Him, and thus they were seen as Gods.

Jodi,
Your treatment of the scriptures is pretexting. You take it all out of context. First, the scripture says that Christ is “counted worthy” of much more glory than Moses:

Quote

It says that Christ is “counted worthy” of the glory of the builder and that the builder is God. So Christ is counted worthy of EQUAL glory with God.

Second, Hebrews 1 applies the term “God” in a much greater sense then it was applied to men and angels.

Quote

“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”? (Hebrews 1:3-5)

Quote

“You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands (Heb. 1:10)

If the name “begotten Son” indicates that he is superior to men and angels, then the name “God” in reference to Him is used in a much greater sense than it was used of men and angels.

PLEASE TRY TO COMMENT ON “GOD” IN REFERENCE TO CHRIST IN CONTEXT!

We agree that Jesus while in the days of His flesh did not rely on His own power but submitted Himself to the power of God. So it is not necessary to keep repeating this principle.

Please scroll up and note my reply to your treatment of 1 John 5.

thinker

TT you said, “Jodi, Your treatment of the scriptures is pretexting. You take it all out of context. First, the scripture says that Christ is “counted worthy” of much more glory than Moses:“

When did I say that Jesus and Moses had the same glory? Jesus was not teaching about his or Moses's glory in the following scripture.

John 10:32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” 33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, 'I said, “You are gods” '? 35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'?

Jesus is declaring that God called HUMAN gods, therefore there should not be a problem with Jesus calling himself the SON of God.

37 If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; 38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him.”

The Father of Jesus is the ONE TRUE God, and Jesus is HIS Son. Jesus is referred to being God, and as Jesus explained, “If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came and the Scripture cannot be broken,

It's not hard just believe in Jesus and Paul words to form your understanding!

1 Corinthians 8:5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

Moses and Jesus were neither TRUE gods in their OWN RIGHT, they were called gods because they were GIVEN powers FROM the ONE TRUE God the Father.

The greatest of Jesus above Moses is another topic. Obviously Jesus as the lamb and the firstborn from the dead made to be our high priest and head master is greater then Moses. Moses saved the Israelites from slavery, Jesus is the savior for all men freeing us from the bonds of death.

August 12, 2009 at 2:29 pm#140777

Participant

TT you said, We agree that Jesus while in the days of His flesh did not rely on His own power but submitted Himself to the power of God. So it is not necessary to keep repeating this principle.”

I am NOT repeating the same principle. Jesus even after his resurrection still had no powers of his own, therefore I am speaking from THAT principle. I explained it you must have missed it. Maybe I missed your response to it, anyway I will check and give you the scriptures that show Jesus still receives from the Father.

August 12, 2009 at 3:11 pm#140778

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Jodi………Thinker doesn't want to give GOD the FATHER the GLORY for (HIS) Work He did through Christ Jesus. He has made another TRUE GOD equal to the (ONLY) TRUE GOD, with all the POWER and Glory Knowledge of the ONLY TRUE GOD. This is Idolatry in its truest form. IMO

We all enjoy your spirit lead posts, the Spirit give soundness to Scripture, keep up the good work.

Peace and love to you and yours………………………..gene

August 12, 2009 at 3:14 pm#140779

Participant

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 13 2009,02:04)

1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Jesus was NOT the God who promised eternal life in the beginning, he was the means to come, by which God would fulfill that promise.

God raised Jesus from the dead and gave Jesus the glory of eternal life, that we may have faith and hope in God, NOT himself. Jesus came to reveal the Father, not himself.

Jesus came and spoke the words of the Father and did the work of the Father and did the will of the Father so that we may know the ONE TRUE God the Father.

YHWH is certainly not Jesus. YHWH is the One TRUE God the Father, and he raised up Jesus and exalted him to His right hand to be our savior. God MADE Jesus our savior. Jesus did NOTHING of himself.

Ac 13:23 From this man's seed, according to the promise, God raised up for Israel a Savior–Jesus—

Jesus is our savior but it is ONLY through the planning and the works of the One TRUE God the Father.

Jodi! You have some good Scriptures and I thank you for that. But I don't remember if you believe that Jesus preexisted before His Birth on Earth? I did give some Scriptures to prove my understanding of it. Jesus told us that no one has seen His Father or heard His voice. In Genesis it says let us. It was Jesus who was called the Word of God and YEshua that created all by the power of the Father. Some have said why would God do that. I have no answer to that except that He gave so much to His Son. He was the firstborn of all creation.
Col. 115-17
Rev. 3:14
By Jesus own word He said this
John 17:5 ” And now O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
Proverb 8:22-30
Some will say that it is Wisdom. However to me it makes no sense, God already had all wisdom, how could He have function otherwise.
Rev. 3:14…”These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God.
Also Jesus was the firstborn of the dead, so that in all He will have preeminence.
Col. 1:18 And He is the head of the body of Church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so in all things He may have the preeminence. Meaning first in all.
All has shown us what our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ has done for us. We should daily praise Him for that alone, and to speak of many other things that I am thankful for.
Peace and Love Irene

August 12, 2009 at 3:19 pm#140780

Participant

TT you said, “Second, Hebrews 1 applies the term “God” in a much greater sense then it was applied to men and angels.”

Excuse me? It was APPLIED to a MAN, remember Jesus is the man born of a woman of the seed of David that God had foreknowledge of and promised to come to save our sins?

The whole chapter of Hebrews FITS perfectly with these scriptures

John 10:34 “Is it not written in your law, 'I said, “You are gods” '? 35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),

1 Corinthians 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

NOTE TT that Hebrews was written after Jesus rose from the dead and it pertains to things occurring before and after he rose from the dead.

Hebrews 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

Why would the Father need to appoint Jesus anything after he rose from the dead?

3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Why would he BECOME anything after being raised from the dead if he were going back to being all powerful God? Once again why would he inherit something if he were the eternal God?

5 For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”? And again: “I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son”? 6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: “Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

Jesus is still under His Father, the Father is bringing the firstborn into the world. The Father is not bringing God into the world. For crying out loud…..WHO is the firstborn TT, the One True God? NO, the firstborn is the Messiah, the HUMAN Being made immortal!

7 And of the angels He says: “Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire.” 8 But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.

Jesus RECEIVED FROM the Father the throne, not because he is God, but because he is the human being who through God’s Spirit perfectly followed God’s will and was deserving of it through what was accomplished in him.

9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

Jesus was the human being who loved righteousness and hated lawlessness and it is because of that reason he inherited the throne and was more than his companions, not because he went back to being the One True God with all power and authority.

Hebrews is speaking of the accomplishments of a man and how that man was deserving of God’s throne. He is called a God by the One True God the Father.

We look to the Father as the One True God as scripture says, and we look to Jesus as our master and our mediator to the ONE TRUE God, and when Jesus is referred to being a god, we should keep it under the following definition-

The New Testament Greek Lexicon

Theos

whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
a.God's representative or viceregent
1.of magistrates and judges

August 12, 2009 at 3:26 pm#140781

Participant

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 13 2009,01:18)

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 12 2009,18:37)

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 12 2009,16:02)

One the one side of your mouth you say that Christ is our Mediator. On the other side you say that we can go directly to the Father. Which is it?

thinker

Irene,
I know you said that we go through Jesus. But then you said we go “directly.” But if we go through Jesus we do NOT go directly. We go THROUGH Jesus. So I ask you again: Do we go through Jesus or do we go directly?

thinker

August 12, 2009 at 3:34 pm#140782

Participant

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 13 2009,03:26)

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 13 2009,01:18)

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 12 2009,18:37)

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 12 2009,16:02)

One the one side of your mouth you say that Christ is our Mediator. On the other side you say that we can go directly to the Father. Which is it?

thinker

And since you seem to disagree then how do you get rid of your sins, do you go to a Priest? That would be something to see.
Only God the Father can forgive our Sins and because Jesus died for us, we can now go to the Throne of God through Jesus Christ who is our Mediator between us and the Father. There is no trinity.

August 12, 2009 at 4:04 pm#140784

Participant

Jodi Lee said:

Quote

When did I say that Jesus and Moses had the same glory? Jesus was not teaching about his or Moses's glory in the following scripture.

Jodi,
Did you not mean to infer that since Moses was made God to the people that Jesus being called “God” by the Father means nothing more? Did you not mean to infer that Jesus is on the same level with Moses?

Jodi Lee said:

Quote

Jesus was not teaching about his or Moses's glory in the following scripture.

What has this passage to do with Hebrews 3:3-4? This is what I mean when I say you “pretext.” You won't allow a passage to speak on its own and exegete it line upon line and precept upon precept. You dodge the passages I give you by throwing into the mix other passages that are not directly related. The passage you give from John 10 does not prove His alleged inferiority. It proves His self denial and His humility. Hebrews 3 clearly says that Jesus is “counted worthy” of the glory of the builder and that the builder is God. Therefore, Jesus is counted worthy of EQUAL glory with God.

Jesus did not honor Himself. BUT HIS FATHER DID. Jesus did not glorify Himself. BUT HIS FATHER DID. You invoke scriptures that in reality prove His self denial and humility and not some alleged inferiority. You ignore scriptures that indicate what the Father said about Him and what He said the Father said about Him.

Anti-trinitarians use as a “proof text” Jesus' word “I do not honor Myself.” They stop there. They think this implies that Jesus is inferior. But He went on to say, “It is My Father who honors Me who you say is your God.” Did you get that Jodi? Jesus told the Jews that the Father honors Him and then called into question their devotion to God because they did not honor Him.

So I ask you this: Do you honor Jesus as the Father honors Him? If not, then on what grounds do you claim that the Father is your God?

thinker

August 12, 2009 at 4:17 pm#140786

Participant

Jodi lee said:

Quote

whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
a. God's representative or viceregent
1. of magistrates and judges

Jodi Lee,
First, as “representative God” Jesus would be YOUR God or else His being a “representative” God means absolutely nothing! The Father said to Him, “YOUR throne, O God is forever and ever.” So our “representative” God, as you like it, reigns as King of kings and Lord of lords on HIS OWN throne. Again, as “representative” God He is YOUR God or being a “representative” God means nothing at all.

Second, verse 10 says that the Father attributed the creation of the heavens and the earth to Him,

Quote

“ Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”

10 And:

“ You, LORD, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.

It clearly says that the Father atributes the creation of the universe to Him. This means that He is more than a “representative” God. The Psalm quoted here was written about Jehovah. But the Father Himself applied it to His Son.

thinker

August 12, 2009 at 4:28 pm#140787

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Thinker………Quite changing subject matter, Man! cant you read and UNDERSTAND JODI'S POST, Whats preventing you from comprehending it. It is so simply and accurate Just accept it that way. You Trinitarians are experts at dodging and not excepting truth. Man, unbelievable!. Jesus is (NOT)(A) GOD He is subordinate to GOD the Father, as is all things. ONE GOD ,ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MAN (THE MAN) JESUS CHRIST. Jesus is one of US, always was and always will be, a 100% human being the (first) born into the Kingdom of GOD of all mankind, and example to all (HIS) brothers and sisters od How to have a right relationship with the FATHER and it is JUST THE SAME AS HIS IS. Come out of those TRINITARIAN LIES Thinker.

peace and love………………….gene

August 12, 2009 at 7:36 pm#140792