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Cato………..GOD is a (PLURAL) word and simply means (POWERS) GOD the FATHER has supreme POWER , Jesus said (THOU) art the ONLY TRUE GOD”, all other powers are recieved from Him and are lesser in authority then HE. Jesus said GOD is a SPIRIT and and we must worship (HIM) in spirit and truth. Jesus told Pilot , you could do nothing except it had been given you from GOD, He understood that GOD is word that describes Powers, When He quoted Psalms where it said your are Gods, That Plasm referred to the rulers of Israel they Had been give by the LORD GOD (POWERS) and were therefore were expected to conduct them selves in His place, because He had Placed them in their position and required them to act accordingly, even as He does Jesus. Jesus Said it right , “THERE IS ONLY ONE (TRUE) GOD OR POWER, All other POWERS are recieved from that ONE TRUE SOURCE. Trinitarians who want to make Jesus equal in POWER and Authority as the LORD GOD are simply deluded in their thinking. THERE IS ONLY (ONE) (TRUE) GOD OR POWER, All else derive their powers from HIM, but He is the giver of any and all power rather in earth or in heaven. Jesus is a recipient of that Power Just as all men and things in creation are. There are many Gods but for US and Jesus, there is (ONLY) ONE TRUE GOD…………..IMO
peace and love………………………gene
Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 11 2009,19:31) Jodi Lee said: Quote When Jesus was in the world having all the powers of God he most certainly appeared to the people as being a god, he performed many miracles and wonders. Jesus was not the One True God, the One True God YHWH, made Jesus a god on earth. Jodi Lee,
This is pure polytheism. You are saying that Jesus was another god. But Jehovah said you shall have NO OTHER GODS and In Isaiah He said THERE IS NO OTHER BESIDE ME. Jesus was the Jehovah who said this. Psalm 102:25-27 speaks about Jehovah. In Hebrews 1:10 the Father applies the Psalm to His Son. Therefore, the Son is Jehovah.thinker
You seem to misunderstand the One True God the Father's use of the word God in relation to Jesus the MAN of whom God gave all power and glory to.1 Corinthians 8: 4 Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
You are the one who takes scripture out of context!!
Is there ONE TRUE God the Father or not TT?
Why does the ONE TRUE God the FATHER refer to the MAN our Messiah, born of a woman of the seed of David as a theos? Was Jesus the ONE True theos declared as the FATHER….. is Jesus like that redneck son, “I am my own grandpa”? NO! The Father, who is numerously called the God of Jesus, calls Jesus a theos because he was given ALL powers of the One True Theos and acted as a theos on behalf of the ONE True Theos!
In Jesus Christ NAME TT, keep in mind who Christ IS, he is A MAN born of the seed of David. He is consistently shown all throughout scripture even after his resurrection to be a MAN, and is distinguished not as the One True God but the Son of the One True God YHWH.
Jesus is NOT God but he ACTS as a God through the powers he receives from the One True God the Father.
How else would you make sense of the fact that Jesus HAS a God himself? How else would you make sense of the fact that we are told that for us there is One true God the Father and then right after shown that Jesus is NOT that One true God?
Rationalize this verse in the NT and tell me it doesn't prove the trinity.
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. KJV
Hi The Thinker,
Since yesterday I have been gathering scriptures for you and I am curious as to how you will respond because it is evident to me from your understanding that you are unaware of what much of the New Testament teaches.
I know you do not like reading long posts, but most of this post is scripture….you do like reading SCRIPTURE, don't YOU?
Acts 4:23 And being let go, they went to their own companions and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said to them. 24 So when they heard that, they raised their voice to God with one accord and said: “Lord, You are God, who made heaven and earth and the sea, and all that is in them, 25 who by the mouth of Your servant David have said: 'Why did the nations rage, And the people plot vain things? 26 The kings of the earth took their stand, And the rulers were gathered together Against the Lord and against His Christ.' 27 “For truly against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together 28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose determined before to be done.
Hebrews 1:8 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.”
Acts 17:23 for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: 24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also His offspring.' 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”
YHWH our heavenly Father MADE the heavens and the earth. Our Heavenly Father gives to all of us, life, breath and all things. Jesus was on the other hand the purpose of creation, for YHWH made the heavens and earth through the foreknowledge of the eternal salvation that would come through him. The world will be judged in righteousness not by a man who ordained himself, but by the One True God YHWH, our Heavenly Father who ordained a man and gave us assurance by raising that human being from the dead.
Colossians 1:12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins. 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
Jesus is clearly shown to be the Beginning of the firstborn of the dead, he is the Beginning of the NEW heaven and Earth.
Ephesians 2:15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. 19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
Jesus is consistently, before and after his resurrection, shown not to be the One True God, but the Christ, a human being.
Jesus was of the first fruit of the Holy Spirit, he is NOT the One True God, he is clearly shown to be a human being given immortality by the One True God, his Father, YHWH.
1 Corinthians 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him,that God may be all in all.
Once again Jesus is clearly shown not to be part of the One True God, but a human being given the first fruits of the Holy Spirit given an immortal body.
Lu 20:36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Ro 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God
Jesus was certainly led by the Spirit of God, he was clearly not the One True God, he was led by Him and His Spirit. Jesus is no longer able to die anymore not because he went back to being God but because he became an immortal human being.
Ga 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
We are sons of God through faith not in the God Jesus but the Christ Jesus, the HUMAN Messiah!!
2 Corinthians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints who are in all Achaia: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Jesus is STILL the Christ, the HUMAN Messiah and Paul is Christ’s apostle
by the Will not of Jesus but by God our Father.1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
ONE God the Father, OF WHOM are all things, all things exist through the power of the Father, and there is also one lord, the human Messiah through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
Do you not understand what this means TT? Why can’t you distinguish the difference here? There was ONE God our Father who created all things and He created all things through the MAN Jesus the Messiah.
Revelation 10:5 The angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land raised up his hand to heaven 6 and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things that are in it, the earth and the things that are in it, and the sea and the things that are in it, that there should be delay no longer, 7 but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.
Hebrews 1:1God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
YHWH, our heavenly Father created the heavens and the earth through Jesus Christ. He created it by him and for him. YHWH created the heavens and the earth by and for the MAN who He raised from the dead. He declared it to His prophets.
Revelation14:7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.” 8 And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.” 9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Jesus is the Lamb and he once again is distinguished not as God, and NOT as the God of whom made the heavens and the earth.
Luke 1:67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying: 68 “Blessed is the Lord God of Israel, For He has visited and redeemed His people, 69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us In the house of His servant David, 70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets, Who have been since the world began, 71 That we should be saved from our enemies And from the hand of all who hate us, 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers And to remember His holy covenant, 73 The oath which He swore to our father Abraham: 74 To grant us that we, Being delivered from the hand of our enemies, Might serve Him without fear, 75 In holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life. 76 And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Highest; For you will go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways, 77 To give knowledge of salvation to His people By the remission of their sins, 78 Through the tender mercy of our God, With which the Dayspring from on high has visited us; 79 To give light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death, To guide our feet into the way of peace.” 80 So the child grew and became strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his manifestation to Israel.
Acts 3:17 Yet now, brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers. 18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. 22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, 'The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.' 24 Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days. 25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, 'And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.' 26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”
Jesus was not the YHWH of the Old Testament, he was the PROMISE to come, the promise that existed since the world began and was spoken to the prophets as a promise which included a peaceful earth with righteous men dwelling in it.
We are consistently shown throughout the bible that it was YHWH our heavenly Father that made the heavens and the earth spoken of in Genesis. We are told in Colossians 1 that Jesus is the BEGINNING of the FIRSTBORN of the dead. Jesus the man born of Mary, loved righteousness and hated lawlessness, and it is by the foreknowledge of Jesus that God created the heavens and the earth in THAT beginning. By the work of Jesus through God did Jesus lay the foundation of the NEW heaven and NEW earth.
Hebrews 1:6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: “Let all the angels of God worship Him.”7 And of the angels He says: “Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire.” 8 But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” 10 And: “You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
We are shown clearly that YHWH the Father created the heavens and the earth in THAT beginning. The beginning spoken of in Hebrews 1:10 would then obviously be speaking of a different beginning then the one of Genesis.
Ephesians 3:9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; 10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, 11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.
Scripture does not say that the God who became Jesus created the heavens and the earth. Scripture shows us that God, YHWH the One True God the Father created all things through CHRIST. Who is Christ but the beginning of the fulfillment of God’s promise of eternal salvation! Who is Christ but the beginning of the dead being raised! Who is Christ but the author and beginning of the New heaven and earth!
Jodi Lee said:
Quote Why does the ONE TRUE God the FATHER refer to the MAN our Messiah, born of a woman of the seed of David as a theos? Jodi Lee,
You buried yourself when you said that the One True God refers to Messiah as “a God.” How can the One True God refer to Messiah as “a God” if Messiah is not also a true God? Would the One True God call Messiah “a God” if He was a false God?Speaking about the Word John wrote:
“That [the Word] was the true light which gives light to every man coming into the world” (John 1:9).
Therefore, the true Light is a true God and the Father is not the only true God. If the true Light is not also a true God then He is darkness. Right? You don't understand the unity of the Father and the Son.
btw, Light is a metaphor for God. The expression “true light” in reference to the Word means that He is the true God.
thinker
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 12 2009,03:37) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 11 2009,19:31) Jodi Lee said: Quote When Jesus was in the world having all the powers of God he most certainly appeared to the people as being a god, he performed many miracles and wonders. Jesus was not the One True God, the One True God YHWH, made Jesus a god on earth. Jodi Lee,
This is pure polytheism. You are saying that Jesus was another god. But Jehovah said you shall have NO OTHER GODS and In Isaiah He said THERE IS NO OTHER BESIDE ME. Jesus was the Jehovah who said this. Psalm 102:25-27 speaks about Jehovah. In Hebrews 1:10 the Father applies the Psalm to His Son. Therefore, the Son is Jehovah.thinker
You seem to misunderstand the One True God the Father's use of the word God in relation to Jesus the MAN of whom God gave all power and glory to.1 Corinthians 8: 4 Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
You are the one who takes scripture out of context!!
Is there ONE TRUE God the Father or not TT?
Why does the ONE TRUE God the FATHER refer to the MAN our Messiah, born of a woman of the seed of David as a theos? Was Jesus the ONE True theos declared as the FATHER….. is Jesus like that redneck son, “I am my own grandpa”? NO! The Father, who is numerously called the God of Jesus, calls Jesus a theos because he was given ALL powers of the One True Theos and acted as a theos on behalf of the ONE True Theos!
In Jesus Christ NAME TT, keep in mind who Christ IS, he is A MAN born of the seed of David. He is consistently shown all throughout scripture even after his resurrection to be a MAN, and is distinguished not as the One True God but the Son of the One True God YHWH.
Jesus is NOT God but he ACTS as a God through the powers he receives from the One True God the Father.
How else would you make sense of the fact that Jesus HAS a God himself? How else would you make sense of the fact that we are told that for us there is One true God the Father and then right after shown that Jesus is NOT that One true God?
Did you even read through this whole post TT?How else would you make sense of the fact that Jesus HAS a God himself? How else would you make sense of the fact that we are told that for us there is One true God the Father and then right after shown that Jesus is NOT that One true God?
Because……
The Father, CALLS Jesus a theos because he was given ALL powers of the One True Theos and acted as a theos on behalf of the ONE True Theos!
You see TT, Jesus is not truly God, because for us there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD the FATHER, that would mean that Jesus has only ACTED as a God through the POWER of the ONE TRUE GOD.
TT, you need to understand
Joh 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
Jesus is not the TRUE God, he was only seen as a God because he had the TRUE God's powers.
There is only ONE True God who we are told is the FATHER.
This is not complicated…. either you believe that there is a ONE TRUE GOD and that He is the Father and understand scriptures in that light or you choose to look at scripture to fit your own man made doctrine. When you make Jesus out to also be the ONE True God then you make scripture out to be a joke
Don't know if you guys realize but when Jesus The Son of God, or God The Son came to earth. His Authority and Glory was SUSPENDED while he was on earth, so that he may fufill the prophesies of a suffering servent.
This means, he was a Man in Flesh, but in him was his own Soul of God The Son, with the Spirit of God The Father.
It was this Spirit (not the Holy Ghost) that led and instructed him, and taught him in the desert and revealed his Identity to himself.
It was this spirit that with Authority allowed him to perform miracles.
So on earth, Yes he was but a Man with the True Spirit of God within him.
After his death and ressurection, he Ascneded back into the fullness of his power and Glory. This is the Inheritence that was spoken of while he was on Earth.
The kingdom was given unto him through the New Convenant, because before the Focal Point was God the Father.
Now the Focal Point is God The Son, who then will hand over the kingdom back to his Father, while basking in the same glory.
Jodi Lee,
You posted
Ephesians 2:15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peaceWhat were the TWO, God was speaking of?
A New man born of The Flesh of a Woman, and the Spirit of God The Father.
This is why Jesus is the literal Son of God, because he was MADE Flesh from the Spirit of THE FATHER and the Flesh of a Woman, uniting the 2.
So Jesus was not created like creation. He LITERALLY COMES FROM THE FATHER's Spirit….or lets call it the Father's Flesh.
If he comes from the Father's Flesh, he is OF the Father's essence.
This means HE is EQUAL to the father in Essence (before the foundation of creation)
After creation he suspended his Deity in Heaven, and was allowed to be merged with mankind by beind PUT inside of a Virgin Woman who came from the Line of David.
He lived and walked as a Man in Flesh but in him was the Spirit of The Father. No man has ever had the spirit of the Father in Him…we have had the Holy Ghost which is maniefestation of The Father's Wisdom…but The Father Himself dwelled within Jesus. Althou Jesus maintained his own Soul.
Flesh is how we relate to the Physical World.
Soul is how we relate to other Humans
Spirit is how we relate to GodGod's composition.
Flesh is Jesus Christ relating to the World.
Soul is his Holy Spirit relating to Mankind
Spirit is God The Father.God The Son's composition.
Flesh is his relation to the World
Soul is God The Son manifested as man observing as a Human
Spirit is God The Father in himSo yes Jesus was a Man. but do not forget his Virgin Birth and who his Biological Father was. If he is truly the Literal Son of God then he is a God himself.
The offspring of a reptile is a reptile.
The offspring of a Monkey is a Monkey.
The offspring of a Human is a Human.The offspring of God and a Human, is a God/Human.
Jesus was Human in Flesh, God in Spirit.
He is God The SonYou need to understand something people.
For the creator of the universe/everything… To choose the Creation of the Human Race to bear his offspring, Jesus Christ.To reconcile Mankind with it's creator. This is the most serious act of humbletude known to anything.
What's even more humbling is that the creator of everything, condemned his Only Begotten Son to the punishment of a sinner.
To create a path so that if the most righteous can be condemned for a sin he did not commit.
Then the most filthy may be forgiven for a sin he DID commit, in belief that his maker loves him/her THAT MUCH.
The Humbletude of allowing his Son to Die for us expresses such a love from our God that non of our senses can even come close to a fraction of fathoming how much our God loves us.
And to know his Son, who is God in flesh (not the Father in flesh, THE SON in flesh) reduced himself to be with us is why this is so significant.
If Jesus was but a mere man and only a man, then how can he reconcile us with God?
Scripture reveals he must be part God and part Man to reconcile the bridge between us. Amen
From upon his resurrection-
Jesus is shown to STILL be a SERVANT to the ONE TRUE God, the Father.
Jesus is shown to STILL be a human being.
Jesus is shown to STILL need power and wisdom and ALL things from the ONE TRUE God, the Father.
Ac 3:13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go.
The God of Abraham was YHWH and He glorified His Servant Jesus. God did not glorify Himself , He glorified the man Jesus, by giving the man immortality.
YHWH, the One True God spoke in times past through the prophets, but spoke to the people later through His Son Jesus. (Hebrews 1)
Acts 3:26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”
Jesus after the resurrection is STILL God’s servant, following the directions of God.
Acts 4:29 Now, Lord, look on their threats, and grant to Your servants that with all boldness they may speak Your word, 30 by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus.” 31 And when they had prayed, the place where they were assembled together was shaken; and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and they spoke the word of God with boldness.
Jesus is still God’s servant, and he is shown repeatedly to be separate from God, which makes perfect sense knowing that Jesus was the MAN that God promised would be born of the seed of David and the Messiah that would save the world. When Jesus was on earth the powers that he had were from God and when Jesus became an immortal human being, he did not receive powers of his own. The people prayed to the One True God the Father, in the name of Jesus, for healing and signs and wonders.
Re 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants–things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,
Jesus STILL receives from the Father!!
Revelation 5:11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures, and the elders; and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice: “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain To receive power and riches and wisdom, And strength and honor and glory and blessing!“ 13 And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: “Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever!”
Jesus did not go back to being God, he became the immortal lamb and he still receives from God power and wisdom.
Re 6:16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!
Re 7:10 and crying out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!”
Re 7:17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”
Re 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, a* Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having+ His Father's name written on their foreheads.
Re 14:4These are the ones who were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These were redeemed from among men, being firstfruits to God and to the Lamb.
Re 21:22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
Re 21:23The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light.
Jesus is constantly shown not to be God, but a human being that died on the cross for us and was resurrected so his flesh would not see corruption but given an immortal human body.
Ephesians 1:17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, 18 the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. 22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
TT you really need to lose your Trinitarian false doctrine. Jesus is our master made so by his God and our God the Father named YHWH. Jesus was raised from the dead and was placed BY the Father, not by himself because he has no power and authority in himself, at the right hand of God. God puts all things under Christ’s feet and God GAVE him to be head over all things to the church.
1 Corinthians 15:25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
Jesus does not put all things under his feet through his own power, he had to receive that power from the One True God the Father.
1 Timothy 2: 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men–the testimony given in its proper time.
Jesus is clearly identified to us as STILL being a man, and he is identified not as God but as our mediator to God. Even at the very end of the bible in one of the vary last verses Jesus still refers to himself as a human being, being of the root and offspring of David.
Revelation 22:22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 12 2009,04:58) Hi The Thinker, Since yesterday I have been gathering scriptures for you and I am curious as to how you will respond because it is evident to me from your understanding that you are unaware of what much of the New Testament teaches.
I know you do not like reading long posts, but most of this post is scripture….you do like reading SCRIPTURE, don't YOU?
Acts 4:23 And being let go, they went to their own companions and reported all that the chief priests and elders had said to them. 24 So when they heard that, they raised their voice to God with one accord and said: “Lord, You are God, who made heaven and earth and the sea, and all that is in them, 25 who by the mouth of Your servant David have said: 'Why did the nations rage, And the people plot vain things? 26 The kings of the earth took their stand, And the rulers were gathered together Against the Lord and against His Christ.' 27 “For truly against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together 28 to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose determined before to be done.
Hebrews 1:8 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.”
Acts 17:23 for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: 24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also His offspring.' 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”
YHWH our heavenly Father MADE the heavens and the earth. Our Heavenly Father gives to all of us, life, breath and all things. Jesus was on the other hand the purpose of creation, for YHWH made the heavens and earth through the foreknowledge of the eternal salvation that would come through him. The world will be judged in righteousness not by a man who ordained himself, but by the One True God YHWH, our Heavenly Father who ordained a man and gave us assurance by raising that human being from the dead.
Colossians 1:12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins. 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, 20 and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.
Jesus is clearly shown to be the Beginning of the firstborn of the dead, he is the Beginning of the NEW heaven and Earth.
Ephesians 2:15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. 19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone, 21 in whom the whole building, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.
Jesus is consistently, before and after his resurrection, shown not to be the One True God, but the Christ, a human being.
Jesus was of the first fruit of the Holy Spirit, he is NOT the One True God, he is clearly shown to be a human being given immortality by the One True God, his Father, YHWH.
1 Corinthians 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him,that God may be all in all.
Once again Jesus is clearly shown not to be part of the One True God, but a human being given the first fruits of the Holy Spirit given an immortal body.
Lu 20:36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Ro 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God
Jesus was certainly led by the Spirit of God, he was clearly not the One True God, he was led by Him and His Spirit. Jesus is no longer able to die anymore not because he went back to being God but because he became an immortal human being.
Ga 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
We are sons of God through faith not in the God Jesus but the Christ Jesus, the HUMAN Messiah!!
2 Corinthians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God whic
h is at Corinth, with all the saints who are in all Achaia: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.Jesus is STILL the Christ, the HUMAN Messiah and Paul is Christ’s apostle by the Will not of Jesus but by God our Father.
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
ONE God the Father, OF WHOM are all things, all things exist through the power of the Father, and there is also one lord, the human Messiah through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
Do you not understand what this means TT? Why can’t you distinguish the difference here? There was ONE God our Father who created all things and He created all things through the MAN Jesus the Messiah.
Revelation 10:5 The angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land raised up his hand to heaven 6 and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, who created heaven and the things that are in it, the earth and the things that are in it, and the sea and the things that are in it, that there should be delay no longer, 7 but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.
Hebrews 1:1God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;
YHWH, our heavenly Father created the heavens and the earth through Jesus Christ. He created it by him and for him. YHWH created the heavens and the earth by and for the MAN who He raised from the dead. He declared it to His prophets.
Revelation14:7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.” 8 And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.” 9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Jesus is the Lamb and he once again is distinguished not as God, and NOT as the God of whom made the heavens and the earth.
Luke 1:67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying: 68 “Blessed is the Lord God of Israel, For He has visited and redeemed His people, 69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us In the house of His servant David, 70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets, Who have been since the world began, 71 That we should be saved from our enemies And from the hand of all who hate us, 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers And to remember His holy covenant, 73 The oath which He swore to our father Abraham: 74 To grant us that we, Being delivered from the hand of our enemies, Might serve Him without fear, 75 In holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life. 76 And you, child, will be called the prophet of the Highest; For you will go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways, 77 To give knowledge of salvation to His people By the remission of their sins, 78 Through the tender mercy of our God, With which the Dayspring from on high has visited us; 79 To give light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death, To guide our feet into the way of peace.” 80 So the child grew and became strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his manifestation to Israel.
Acts 3:17 Yet now, brethren, I know that you did it in ignorance, as did also your rulers. 18 But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. 19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. 22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, 'The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. 23 And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.' 24 Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days. 25 You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, 'And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.' 26 To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”
Jesus was not the YHWH of the Old Testament, he was the PROMISE to come, the promise that existed since the world began and was spoken to the prophets as a promise which included a peaceful earth with righteous men dwelling in it.
We are consistently shown throughout the bible that it was YHWH our heavenly Father that made the heavens and the earth spoken of in Genesis. We are told in Colossians 1 that Jesus is the BEGINNING of the FIRSTBORN of the dead. Jesus the man born of Mary, loved righteousness and hated lawlessness, and it is by the foreknowledge of Jesus that God created the heavens and the earth in THAT beginning. By the work of Jesus through God did Jesus lay the foundation of the NEW heaven and NEW earth.
Hebrews 1:6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: “Let all the angels of God worship Him.”7 And of the angels He says: “Who makes His angels spirits And His ministers a flame of fire.” 8 But to the Son He says: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” 10 And: “You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
We are shown clearly that YHWH the Father created the heavens and the earth in THAT beginning. The beginning spoken of in Hebrews 1:10 would then obviously be speaking of a different beginning then the one of Genesis.
Ephesians 3:9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; 10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, 11 according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord, 12 in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him.
Scripture does not say that the God who became Jesus created the heavens and the earth. Scripture shows us that God, YHWH the One True God the Father created all things through CHRIST. Who is Christ but the beginning of the fulfillment of
God’s promise of eternal salvation! Who is Christ but the beginning of the dead being raised! Who is Christ but the author and beginning of the New heaven and earth!
Jodi,
I have told you before that I am not going to answer your lengthy dissertations point by point. It takes too much time and energy. When have I ever denied that Jesus was God's servant? My position is that He pre-existed as God and took the form of a servant and was made in the likeness of men. And being found in fashion as a man HE HUMBLED HIMSELF (Philippinas 2). Then it says that God highly exalted Him as has given Him a name that is above every name. It says that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow.Exodus chapter 20 says that we are not to serve or bow to other gods. You have said that Christ is a god. Paul served Jesus and said that we are to bow to him. If God has not made Christ to be God to us then how do you reconcile these things with Exodus 20? If Christ is not God then Jehovah must have relaxed His standard. Right?
thinker
Jodi Lee WE DO NOT DISAGREE THE JESUS IS LESS THAN THE FATHER.
My arguement is that Jesus is EQUAL to the father in ESSENCE because he CAME from the Father's Fabric of essence.
But he is LESS in AUTHORITY.
Which means, The Father calls the shots.
If the Father calls the shots then Jesus is his servent.
So yes we agree on that, but it is undeniable that Jesus is God The Son MADE Flesh.
Immanuel means God with us.
That is EXACTLY JESUS's Identity.
He is God the Son, Made Flesh.
God made to dwell among Humans.
God with US
Jodi Lee said:
Quote Ac 3:13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go. The God of Abraham was YHWH and He glorified His Servant Jesus. God did not glorify Himself , He glorified the man Jesus, by giving the man immortality.
Jodi,
This is a careless handling of the Scriptures. The “servant Jesus” was indeed glorified. Upon being glorified He returned to the glory He had with the Father before the world began (John 17). He has been exalted to the right hand of His Father which is the place of equality. Even if He is still servant now it would be just as voluntary on His part as it always has been.Paul said this:
Quote Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a SERVANT to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers, (Rom. 15:8) It says that Jesus became a “servant” to the Jews. Does this mean He was not equal to them? Husbands and wives are told to serve one another. When I bcome a servant to my wife am I becoming less than her?
thinker
Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 12 2009,06:15) Jodi Lee WE DO NOT DISAGREE THE JESUS IS LESS THAN THE FATHER. My arguement is that Jesus is EQUAL to the father in ESSENCE because he CAME from the Father's Fabric of essence.
But he is LESS in AUTHORITY.
Which means, The Father calls the shots.
If the Father calls the shots then Jesus is his servent.
So yes we agree on that, but it is undeniable that Jesus is God The Son MADE Flesh.
Rokkaman.
The Father called the shots when Jesus was in the flesh. But Jesus calls the shots now because the Father has delivered all things into His hands. Jesus said He has ALL authority now. ALL authority means ALL authority.thinker
Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 12 2009,05:52) If Jesus was but a mere man and only a man, then how can he reconcile us with God? Scripture reveals he must be part God and part Man to reconcile the bridge between us. Amen
Why cannot a mere man reconcile us to God? If he were so much more then human how could he be a teacher and example we could relate to? Personally it is more compelling if he is fully mortal, for then his accomplishments are more, not less impressive. He can be sent by God without being God.Part man part God is the definition of demi-god, like Hercules or all the various Roman emperors who tried to impress their populace with divine ancestry.
Also scripture states Joseph was of the line of David, it never stated that Mary was of David's line, if Joseph had nothing to do with Jesus' conception how is he of David's line?
A true king is to be a servent to his people.
That is why Jesus came.
As he is a servent to The Father, he is equal in entity…but still less in authority. Overall it would make him less than the Father…but what does it matter?
There are still that bear witness in Heaven. The Father, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit and these three are one.
It is ok to pray to Jesus, and the Father, and the Holy Spirit. They are one and all bear witness in Heaven.
If they bear witness in Heaven, then whatever you send up to heaven in prayer will be heard by them or Elohim
Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 12 2009,05:43) Don't know if you guys realize but when Jesus The Son of God, or God The Son came to earth. His Authority and Glory was SUSPENDED while he was on earth, so that he may fufill the prophesies of a suffering servent. This means, he was a Man in Flesh, but in him was his own Soul of God The Son, with the Spirit of God The Father.
It was this Spirit (not the Holy Ghost) that led and instructed him, and taught him in the desert and revealed his Identity to himself.
It was this spirit that with Authority allowed him to perform miracles.
So on earth, Yes he was but a Man with the True Spirit of God within him.
After his death and ressurection, he Ascneded back into the fullness of his power and Glory. This is the Inheritence that was spoken of while he was on Earth.
The kingdom was given unto him through the New Convenant, because before the Focal Point was God the Father.
Now the Focal Point is God The Son, who then will hand over the kingdom back to his Father, while basking in the same glory.
Jodi Lee,
You posted
Ephesians 2:15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peaceWhat were the TWO, God was speaking of?
A New man born of The Flesh of a Woman, and the Spirit of God The Father.
This is why Jesus is the literal Son of God, because he was MADE Flesh from the Spirit of THE FATHER and the Flesh of a Woman, uniting the 2.
So Jesus was not created like creation. He LITERALLY COMES FROM THE FATHER's Spirit….or lets call it the Father's Flesh.
If he comes from the Father's Flesh, he is OF the Father's essence.
This means HE is EQUAL to the father in Essence (before the foundation of creation)
After creation he suspended his Deity in Heaven, and was allowed to be merged with mankind by beind PUT inside of a Virgin Woman who came from the Line of David.
He lived and walked as a Man in Flesh but in him was the Spirit of The Father. No man has ever had the spirit of the Father in Him…we have had the Holy Ghost which is maniefestation of The Father's Wisdom…but The Father Himself dwelled within Jesus. Althou Jesus maintained his own Soul.
Flesh is how we relate to the Physical World.
Soul is how we relate to other Humans
Spirit is how we relate to GodGod's composition.
Flesh is Jesus Christ relating to the World.
Soul is his Holy Spirit relating to Mankind
Spirit is God The Father.God The Son's composition.
Flesh is his relation to the World
Soul is God The Son manifested as man observing as a Human
Spirit is God The Father in himSo yes Jesus was a Man. but do not forget his Virgin Birth and who his Biological Father was. If he is truly the Literal Son of God then he is a God himself.
The offspring of a reptile is a reptile.
The offspring of a Monkey is a Monkey.
The offspring of a Human is a Human.The offspring of God and a Human, is a God/Human.
Jesus was Human in Flesh, God in Spirit.
He is God The Son
Scripture does not support your view RokkaMan,The promise given to the people through the prophets was for a MAN not a God/man, just a man, to be an eternal king!
1 Corinthians 15:20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
Joh 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
The Spirit of the ONE TRUE God, the Father, raised Jesus from the dead making him an immortal man, the first fruit to receive from God's Spirit, eternal life.
Please read carefully and slowly,
1 Corinthians 15:35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?” 36 Foolish one, what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. 37 And what you sow, you do not sow that body that shall be, but mere grain–perhaps wheat or some other grain. 38 But God gives it a body as He pleases, and to each seed its own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of animals, another of fish, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
Hebrews 2:17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
The promised Messiah had to be in ALL THINGS made like us. There exists no scripture or idea that 1/3 of God came down and was made into a human and therefore was fully God and fully man.
Jesus was FIRST a natural man, but he was raised a spiritual man, having his body being changed from being corruptible to incorruptible.
RakkaMan! I read you post and according to that you belief in a trinity. I that without proving it? You give no Scripture. However I do not believe in the trinity because of these Scriptures.
Ephesians 4:6 ……” one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.”
John 14:28 by Jesus own words ……..My Father is greater then I.”
All through the Bible it says that there is only one God. Not a hypostasis. Trinity.
Peace and Love IreneJodi Lee
The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven.
The second Man is the Lord from heaven. Which identifies Jesus originally came from Heaven. If we as men are first born naturually raised from the dead into a spiritual body.
Then it what Body did Jesus exist in as the Lord from Heaven?
And is he is a Lord in Heaven, what is he a Lord Of?
If Jesus was the Word of God that the world was created through. Then we all were created from Him. As Jesus was created from the Father, we are created from Jesus.
If Jesus was Lord in Heaven and Shared the SAME glory as the Father. He also came forth from the Father's Mouth…being HIS word. He Possessed, suspended then Repossessed the 7 spirits and powers of the Father.
Then the only conclusion is that he is also God. Not God the Father, and not full equal to God the father. But God THE SON who is OF the Father.
Yes he was made a man, but the purpose of being mad man was to reconcile the sin that the first man brought upon the earth.
If Jesus was but a mere man…The Bible says All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.
It did not say except Jesus, it said ALL men. The only way to reconcile this apparent contradiction is belief that Jesus wasn't just a mere man.
We know mere men are both born of a Fleshly Father and Mother.
Jesus was the only Man we know to truly be born of a Virgin.
If so, who is the Father? Why would and Angel tell Mary he is to be called Immanuel, if his identity didn't consist of being part God.
You also quoted: in all things He had to be made like His brethren
If Jesus was MADE like his brethren, and his brethren is us Humans…then what was his nature before he was MADE like his brethren???
My answer is God The Son.
Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 12 2009,06:42) RakkaMan! I read you post and according to that you belief in a trinity. I that without proving it? You give no Scripture. However I do not believe in the trinity because of these Scriptures.
Ephesians 4:6 ……” one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.”
John 14:28 by Jesus own words ……..My Father is greater then I.”
All through the Bible it says that there is only one God. Not a hypostasis. Trinity.
Peace and Love Irene
Lets go to the Old Testament. I used to believe Jesus was not God. I felt it was Idoltray to believe so, and ultimately is was a sin. Until I stumbled on this Bible Code in the OLD TESTAMENT.If you look at the geneology of Adam down to Noah in Genesis 5. Moses gives these accounts (summurized)
Adam begot (in his OWN likeness)
Seth begot (i'm removing the begots)
Enos
Cainan
Mahalalel
Jared
Enoch (remeber enoch walked with God and never died)
Mathuselah
Lamech
NoahWhen I read this I was puzzle to why so much time was spent on listing this Geneology, it didn't seem to have any significance and it was very boring to read.
Then I stumbled on something.
Realizing these were hebrew names, they had english meanings. Lets decipher their meanings shall we.
Adam – Mankind
Seth – Appointed
Enos – Mortal Man, Sick Despaired
Cainan – sorrow, dirge, or elegy
Mahalalel – blessed or praise; and El, the name for God(Blessed God)
Jared – Down to earth
Enoch – Dedicated, teaching, or commencementMathuselah – muth, a root that means “death”;(1) and from shalach, which means to bring, or to send forth. The name Methuselah means, “his death shall bring
Lamech – despairing.
Noah – to bring relief or comfortHere's a clean up of the definitions.
Hebrew English
Adam Man
Seth Appointed
Enosh Mortal
Kenan Sorrow;
Mahalalel The Blessed God
Jared Shall come down
Enoch Teaching
Methuselah His death shall bring
Lamech The Despairing
Noah Rest, or comfort.
Now lets put that in a paragraph.
Man (is) appointed mortal sorrow; (but) the Blessed God shall come down teaching (that) His death shall bring (the) despairing rest
This is why I believe Jesus is God. I see this as God's fingerprint in the Old Testament, written in the Geneology (by Moses) of the first men to walk to earth.
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