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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 27 2009,06:58) Hi RM and welcome ,
So when Jesus says in Mt10.28 to fear the God Who can destroy body and soul in GEENA, which is the second death,
and Mt 25 speaks of the fire prepared for the devil and his angels into which men are cast he was just joking?
Nick There is only one Lake of Fire were those that cannot repent and follow Christ and God's way. It is the second death. That means destruction and not that whoever is thrown into it suffers forever and ever. I believe in a merciful God. What purpose would there be if somewhere in the Universe would be a literal Hell. Hell is a hole in the ground or grave. Jesus went to Hell for 3 days and 3 nights. The Devil and the Anti-Christ will be destroyed too. Death is the last to be destroyed. Who is that causes Death, Satan right?Peace and Love Irene
jodilee, I just want you to know I dont like the attitude you show towards me. Is that how christians act? And I do not speak to people that way. But when you ask RokkaMan if he really thought that God would send someone to a burning hell,You better believe there's a burning hell where sinners go. And our loving God does not send you there, YOU SEND YOUR SELF, by not excepting Jesus as your Saviour. The bible tells us about two places: Heaven and hell,and our souls when we die is going to one of them.If your a true christian than you dont have to worry about hell. Im sure you dont think God is a liar, so if He put it in his word, He means it.
Hi Irene,
You confuse the first death and Hades with GEENA, the second death, the lake of fire.
The purpose is of God and not our logiccindy, when is a hole in the ground or a grave called hell? Iv'e never heard that. And yes, hell is for eternity. God tells us so.you cannot go to heaven if your not a follower of christ.Rev.14:9 tells us if anyone worships the beast and his idol, or gets the beast mark on his forehead or his hand ,that one will aslo drink the wine of Gods anger. that person will be with pain in burning sulfur. there will be no rest for them day or night . says you must obey Gods commands and keep faith in Jesus. Read Chapter 16 on Gods anger. (20)4; tells us about the souls who had been killed because they were faihful to God, they came back to life and ruled with Christ for a thousand years, This is the first raising of the dead, The ones that were not followers of Christ do not rise till after the thousand years.than satan will be set free from His prison and go out to trick all nations, to gather them for battle. Satans army will march across the earth and gather around Gods people, but fire will come down from heaven and burn them up, and satan was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur with the beast and the false prophets, and it says they will be punished day and night FOREVER AND EVER. Those already dead and not followers of Christ will rise to be judged when the book of life is opened.This is the second death the lake of fire- and those whos name is not found in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. I know alot of people dont want to study it beacause it does sound scarey,but thats were our faith comes in at. I wont have to go threw that. I am a follower of Christ and I know he will save us from that. we have been studying it in our church for about a month now, and sure its hard for people but our preacher says God says to spread his word, and that is part of his word, and we all need to hear it, so we will be prepared for the bad times, and I think that fear is good for people sometimes to keep us on track and not lose our focus on god.
Quote (katjo @ Aug. 27 2009,13:57) jodilee, I just want you to know I dont like the attitude you show towards me. Is that how christians act? And I do not speak to people that way. But when you ask RokkaMan if he really thought that God would send someone to a burning hell,You better believe there's a burning hell where sinners go. And our loving God does not send you there, YOU SEND YOUR SELF, by not excepting Jesus as your Saviour. The bible tells us about two places: Heaven and hell,and our souls when we die is going to one of them.If your a true christian than you dont have to worry about hell. Im sure you dont think God is a liar, so if He put it in his word, He means it.
Sorry for offending you Katjo, but if your going to post stuff like you did yesterday, you'd better be prepared for unfavorable opinions of it. My opinion is that it's utter garbage!nick, what scriptures aare you talking about- on hell?
I want to add this post before I get side tracked. I hope someone reads this to the end! To the ones who don’t believe in the trinity, May I ask who is Jesus to you? I hope you would say : My Lord and Saviour. He was there in the beginning. And all things were made by Him. (john 1:2,3) I know everyone keeps quotting scripture after scripture but I think they all have to be put together to see who He really is. From the beginning of the word to the end! Please read! God is spirit who came to the earth in human form (john1:14) to pay for our sins. The bible tells us he had to fulfill the scriptures. I am going to add scripture to show you my point. I think a lot of people should read the book of Psalms, speaking on the Lord., and Isaiah. Psalms 144:10 it is he that giveth salvation unto kings; who deliverth David his servant from the hurtful sword. (15) Happy is that people, that is in such a case; yea, happy is that people, whose GOD IS THE LORD. 145:14 The Lord upholdeth all that fall, and raiseth up all those that be bowed down. 146;5 Happy is he that has the God of Jacob for his help, whose help is in the Lord his God. (6) which made heaven, and earth. 149:4 For the Lord taketh pleasure in his people; he will beautify the meek with salvation. 41;17 When the poor and needy seek water, and there is none, and their tongue faileth for thirst I the Lord will hear them, I the God of Israel will not forsake them. (Just a few more than I will move to the new testament) 43;3 For I am the Lord thy God the holy one of Isreal, thy Saviour. (11) I even I, am the Lord; and besides me there is no Saviour,(12) says ; the Lord says I am God. 45;18 For thus said the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it. Wait!! This is the old testament . Doesn’t Col.1;16 tell us all things was created by Jesus? Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born,unto us a son is given ;and the government shall be upon his shoulders; and His name shall be called Wonderful Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.( why would he be called everlasting father) he is even call Emmanuel ( God with us). But in Rev. He is called the ALMIGHTY! Isaiah 45;23 says the Lord says there is no God besides him. A just God and a Saviour. (23) that every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. Doesn’t the new testament say every knee will bow to Jesus? And if we know Jesus laid down His life for us than why does 1John 3;16 say; the Love of God that laid down his life for us? Deuteronomy 10;17 the Lord your God is God of all Gods and Lord of all Lords. (20) Make your promises in his name he is the one you should praise He is your God. I think people should really pay attention to these verses when denying the trinity. Because Jesus tells you Himself that he is the Almighty. (in verse 8) Rev1:6 (Jesus) And hath made us Kings and priests “unto God and His Father”.(whats this mean) To Him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen
(7) Behold He cometh with clouds and every eye shall see Him, all kindreds of earth shall wail because of Him.
(8) (Jesus) I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is and which was and which is to come, THE ALMIGHTY!
Rev. 14:7 says: fear God and give glory to Him: for the hour of His judgment has come:
(Jesus is going to judge us but here it is saying God’s judgment) and worship Him that made the heaven, and earth. And the sea, and the fountains of waters.(Remember Col. 1:16 tells us by Jesus were all things created in heaven and in earth. By Him and for Him)
Rev. 15:3, And they sang a knew song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvelous are thy works, Lord God Almighty: just and true are thy ways: thou King of saints.(4) Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify the name? For thou only art Holy; For all nations will come and worship before thee: for thy judgments are made manifest. (16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou has judged thus.(this is about Jesus) (6) They have shed blood of prophets, and thou has given them blood to drink: for they are worthy.(7) This is also speaking of Jesus) And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments . And (14) tells us: for they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of GOD ALMIGHTY. (15) Jesus says: Behold I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. Than Rev. 19:1 tells us of many people in Heaven saying, AL-le-lu-la: Salvation, and glory, and honor, and power, unto the Lord our God (remember 7) just told us Jesus was Lord God Almighty, He is who judges us) (2) says for true and righteous are His judgments, but these verses are calling Jesus: “Lord our God and God Almighty” 19:11 tells us :Heaven opened and behold a white horse: and He that sat upon him was called Faithful and True (Jesus) and in righteousness He doth judge and make war. (12) tell us He had a name written, that no man knew, but He himself. (13) And He was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and His name is called THE WORD OF GOD!!(Jesus) (16) He hath on His thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Rev 19: 9 tells us: blessed are he they that are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb than go to verse 17: Come and gather yourselfs together unto the supper of the Great God .(Hmmm) Rev 20:4 says:and I saw thrones and they sat upon them and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word Of God. (Remember 19:13 tells us Jesus name is called The word Of God) Tha Rev21:5 says: And he that sat upon the throne said, behold I make all things new. And he said unto me, write: for these words are true and faithful(19;11Jesus is called faithful and true) (21:6) JESUS SAYS; I am the Alpha and Omega The beginning and thee end (7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I WILL BE HIS GOD and He shall be my son.
Than if we go to Revelation 22:3 It says; and there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it: and His servants shall serve Him ( who’s servants does that mean the Lambs or Gods? It says “His and Him”. Is this saying they are one?) (4) and they shall see His face (Jesus) and His name shall be in their forheads (5) says the Lord God giveth them light. (7) jesus says: Behold I come quickly: Blessed is he that keepth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. (14)I am th Alpha and omega, The beginning and the end, the first and the last. How can anyone look over all this? All these scriptures tell you they are one! What a awesome GOD! I would never believe any different. I have just showed you scripture that shows you he is AlMIGHTY GOD.
1john 5;7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one. So how can you say all this means something different? I think it proves the trinity.Katjo………..The word (HELL) come from the English word Helleos, which simply means GRAVE, or in the ground. The word has nothing to do with the lake of Fire. Jesus said do not fear Him who can destory the body and after that can do nothing else, but fear Him that can destory (BOTH) Body and Soul, in the grave or Hell same thing. Scripture say when a man dies HIS thought PARISH, as far as He is concerned He no longer exists. Now listen closely what Jesus said , “who can destory both Soul and Body in Hell or the grave” in other words a Body without Spirit is no longer a living SOUL (individual person). A spirit is useless with out a Body to animate, if GOD wanted to destory someone He would just leave Him in the grave and not give Him another body. What point would there be in resurrect some one a casting Him into a Lake of Fire. The lake of fire is symbolic for intense Judgment and is not made fro the destruction of People but to purge them of their wrong thinking and purify them as Gold is purified in fire so Symbolically Humans are purified by intense Judgment of GOD. IMO
peace and love……………………gene
Katjo……….If you don't drop all the false teaching of the Apostate Churches , Trinity, Preexistences, Doctrines about devils and demons , and GOD tossing His created Children into a literial inferno Fire of Some kind. You can not come into the true light. The spread of False teachings have totally taken over “Christianity” and has blinded their eyes to the truth. IMO
peace and love…………………..gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 27 2009,14:01) Hi Irene,
You confuse the first death and Hades with GEENA, the second death, the lake of fire.
The purpose is of God and not our logic
We are talking about Hell, not death. I do know that we all die, but the second death there is no resurrection from. It is a final judgement and destruction of those that cannot obey God. We have a merciful God, I do not believe that He will have a Hellfire burning somewhere in the Universe forever. I do believe that it is time consuming to burn all up. How long there is no Scripture that tells us that. The Great Tribulation is a time of sorrow, that is listed in Revelation. God will also punish this nation for the sins of so many. Look around you, is it not worse then Sodom and Gomorrah? I think so. Stay close to our Savior Jesus Christ so we will not have to suffer His wrath. His promise is that those that are alive and are with Christ, will go to safety, when He pures out His wrath. Where that is the Bible does not reveal.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (thetruth @ Aug. 26 2009,03:19) Kerwin why will you not answer me? Nick the trinity of the Scriptures, though you do not believe, and therefore worship a false god.
As I stated the Trinity is not a Hebrew concept. If you wish to believe that perhaps Jesus and his disciples were Hellenized Jews that followed pagan beliefs then that is your choice. I on the other hand choose to believe the Trinity evolved over time.As for the development of the Trinity Tenet we have historic accounts of when each major point was debated and resolved in religious Councils which included, but may not have been limited to the Council of Nicaea and The First Council of Constantinople.
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 27 2009,17:15) Quote (thetruth @ Aug. 26 2009,03:19) Kerwin why will you not answer me? Nick the trinity of the Scriptures, though you do not believe, and therefore worship a false god.
As I stated the Trinity is not a Hebrew concept. If you wish to believe that perhaps Jesus and his disciples were Hellenized Jews that followed pagan beliefs then that is your choice. I on the other hand choose to believe the Trinity evolved over time.As for the development of the Trinity Tenet we have historic accounts of when each major point was debated and resolved in religious Councils which included, but may not have been limited to the Council of Nicaea and The First Council of Constantinople.
I agree with you bro!Love,
MandyQuote (kerwin @ Aug. 27 2009,17:15) Quote (thetruth @ Aug. 26 2009,03:19) Kerwin why will you not answer me? Nick the trinity of the Scriptures, though you do not believe, and therefore worship a false god.
As I stated the Trinity is not a Hebrew concept. If you wish to believe that perhaps Jesus and his disciples were Hellenized Jews that followed pagan beliefs then that is your choice. I on the other hand choose to believe the Trinity evolved over time.As for the development of the Trinity Tenet we have historic accounts of when each major point was debated and resolved in religious Councils which included, but may not have been limited to the Council of Nicaea and The First Council of Constantinople.
It was Quintus Septimus Forens Tertullian that came up with the trinity doctrine. He was born in A.D. 155 to pagan Parents. And it was Constantine that after three centuries of brutal and bloody persecution, He granted all Christians full freedom. However in A.D. 321 He forbid work on Sundays and made it a day of worship. Not only that all Holy Days were forbidden and Holidays like Christmas and Easter were instituted.In 324 Constantine established Christianity as the official religion of His empire. It will become the Roman Universal Church. It is still called the Roman Catholic Church. However that was not the end of persecution to the Christians. After the Bible was published nobody was aloud to have one, except the Bishops and Priest of the Church. Anybody found having one was persecuted and died. Many did.
If you want to know God's Holy Days they are all listed in Leviticus 23.
It is so sad what happened then and it is also sad that so many still belong to the Catholic Church and its false doctrine, to say the least. I am forever thankful to God for calling us out of that Church.
Peace and Love Irene
Gene, Im sorry ,but you need to look at scripture closer because its all in there. We believe what he tells us about heaven dont we? Yes, because it's in his word, so we have to believe what the word says about hell too.
cindy, when he pours out his wrath christians will be took up in the rapture.
Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 27 2009,05:28) The second death, as it is called, the one where people are cast into the lake of fire, is the final judgment, a period of instruction and discipline where SIN is put to death, but not the sinner. The sinner is cast into a fire for refinement to melt away and destroy the SIN, thus destroying the idolater, the murderer, the sexual immoral, and leaving a faithful servant Please show me where that is in the bible, I'd really like to believe that.
And even tho he desires and wills that no man perish, that is his righteous feeling towards all of us, but that doesn't mean that we all will be saved one way or another. God cannot go against his own righteousness, even his own laws that the wicked will be punished and perish in the flames of hell.
But pls provide scripture that indicates what you are saying will happen in the second death.
So far from what I've read…I haven't seen any sinner who partakes in the second death getting another chance at righteousness, or going through a refinement process.
Greetings R man….Jodi' post certainly depicts the existence of a mercifull God and is fairly accurate with respect to the circumstances surrounding the second death….The milenium period will be a period of judgement for those who God saw fit to let survive the tribulation,during this period the world will be full of the knowledge of God(as a result of the outpouring of his spirit)…Jesus will preside over this period as King of Kings and lord of lords…Satan will be bound for this period and Gods kingdom/Government will be in control….The unfortunate circumstance will be that there will be those who will reject this Government,they will suffer the second death and will cease to exist for eternity…Every person who ever lived will be given a chance to know God,as I said some will reject him..This information is available throughout the scriptures,it is Gods plan for mankind….TO ALL……….God has concluded (ALL) under sin, that HE might (HAVE) MERCY ON (ALL). Question is do we (TRULY) believe that? IMO
peace and love to all…………………………….gene
Quote (katjo @ Aug. 28 2009,01:17) Gene, Im sorry ,but you need to look at scripture closer because its all in there. We believe what he tells us about heaven dont we? Yes, because it's in his word, so we have to believe what the word says about hell too.
Kato………if it is there then produce it. IMOpeace and love……………..gene
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