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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 17 2009,09:18) Quote (Gene @ Aug. 17 2009,04:15) To All……….Can anyone HERE explain (HOW) a WORD (CAN) literally (BECOME) FLESH? That is IMPOSSIBLE!. IMO peace and love……………………gene
G,
Does something that is written need to be understood by you to be truth?
Nick……….If I don't understand something it is nether true or false until I can comprehend It in true light, then it makes sense to me , the (WORD) did not (BECOME FLESH) because a (WORD) can not (become) flesh, it is spirit and can exist (IN) a Flesh being. The words in Jesus were (NOT) even His as He said , so how could His Flesh literally be the word. The key is to understand the meaning of (became), it means (came to be in) a flesh and blood human being, (Jesus).We must put the sum of scripture together to get to truth brother. IMOpeace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 17 2009,04:18) Quote (Gene @ Aug. 17 2009,04:15) To All……….Can anyone HERE explain (HOW) a WORD (CAN) literally (BECOME) FLESH? That is IMPOSSIBLE!. IMO peace and love……………………gene
G,
Does something that is written need to be understood by you to be truth?
God speaks through scripture to state that Jesus was conceived in Mary's womb and therefore it stands to reason that Jesus was formed in Mary's womb and not anywhere else.Quote (katjo @ Aug. 17 2009,15:15) Cindy, First of all I thought you where the one that said Jesus was not our Savour, and I am sorry if you wasnt)sure I know the Lord our God is one God. Phillipians 2:11 every tongue should confess that jesus Christ is Lord. Im not saying there is more than one God BUT you just quoted john 1;1 and said “that only proves that Jesus was God but not greater than the Father” So thats saying you believe in more than one God? And I really dont know where your going with Col.1:18 because thats talking about Jesus but you left out the part that says: “who is the beginning”! 1John 5:7 tells us the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one. Can you please tell me how you are getting Col.1:15 as saying first born of all creation?”I cant figure were you are getting that at. Could you explain to me the verses I ask you to in my last post. and No Im not a catholic, Im a Baptist
Col. 1:15 says this:” He is the image of the invisible God, THE FIRSTBORN OVER ALL CREATION.”
REV. 3:14 …”These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD.”
These Scriptures go with John 1:1 He was there before the world was,John 17:5 ” And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory I had with You before the world was.
What I did say about John1:1 is that God is a title and God the Father has a Name it is Jehovah. And the Word is Yeshiva. We are the Son;s of God. We are the Family of God.
That is a title. Just like our names is a title. And if Mr. Smith has a Son his name is Smith also, and that does not make him greater then His Father, ore even.
Were I am going with Col. 1:18 is that He has preeminence, meaning He is first of being the firstborn of all creation and firstborn of the death. You seem not to understand these Scriptures and I sure don't know why. I explained that
1 John 5:7 was added and is not in the original transcript.
In my Husbands Rye study Bible in the footnotes is were I
got that.
I really don't understand you, this is the second time I have put this Scriptures up. They say what I have written, Jesus who was YEshua was the firstborn and came forth from the Father.
So I left out one word the beginning I will check that out if I did. But the meaning is still the same.And no I do not believe in two God's . One is the Father God and the other iis the Son of God.
But never the less the Father calls Jesus God in Hebrew I:8
…” Your Throne O God is forever and ever , a scepter of righteousness , is the scepter of Your Kingdom. verse 9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness. Therefore God your God has anointed You with the oil of gladness more then Your companions.
Do you even check the Scritures that I quote? It makes no sense, I write what uis written in the Bible.
If you can't understand this then you must be without God's Holy Spirit, were you Baptised?
IreneHi KW and G,
You raise your understanding above relevation do you not?
Surely you should submit reason and let God rule?Quote (Gene @ Aug. 17 2009,16:16) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 17 2009,09:18) Quote (Gene @ Aug. 17 2009,04:15) To All……….Can anyone HERE explain (HOW) a WORD (CAN) literally (BECOME) FLESH? That is IMPOSSIBLE!. IMO peace and love……………………gene
G,
Does something that is written need to be understood by you to be truth?
Nick……….If I don't understand something it is nether true or false until I can comprehend It in true light, then it makes sense to me , the (WORD) did not (BECOME FLESH) because a (WORD) can not (become) flesh, it is spirit and can exist (IN) a Flesh being. The words in Jesus were (NOT) even His as He said , so how could His Flesh literally be the word. The key is to understand the meaning of (became), it means (came to be in) a flesh and blood human being, (Jesus).We must put the sum of scripture together to get to truth brother. IMOpeace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Gene! The Word is the Spokesword for God the Father, because Nobody has seen the Father or heard His voice. God is a title and God the Father has another name and so does His Son. Jehovah God and Yeshua. In
verse 4 In Him was life and the life was the light of men.
verse 5 And the the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend.
Read on John talks about the light of the world too.
verse 14 and the word became flesh and dwelt among us. I hope that you will understand. I do know that it is hard to think that a Word became flesh. We really don;t know why John said it that way, or if the translators some how got it wrong. But the rest of the Scripture does explains that Jesus preexisted is plain enough. In Col. and Rev.
Read the Post I made to kejo, before nicks post, I explain that.
With all our Love and Peace IreneNick Hassan:
Quote Surely you should submit reason and let God rule?
Are you accusing God of being irrational?
I ask because obviously you are seeing a flaw in your reasoning and yet you are still preferring to rely on what you believed is an irrational teaching.
Acts 18:19(KJV) reads:
Quote And he came to Ephesus, and left them there: but he himself entered into the synagogue, and reasoned with the Jews.
I see that Paul used reason to convince others of the truth of God so he obviously serves a rational God.
You raise your understanding above revelation do you not?
So you are stating that since I believe that God means what he explicitly states that I am relying on my own understanding. Interesting!
Hebrews 11:17-19(KJV) reads:
Quote By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
Scripture states Abraham was commended for doing the same thing.
Nick…………Jesus said He was (NOT) the words He Spoke. But you and other mislead people think He was the words He Spoke, interesting Jesus said He wasn't but you and other preexistences say He was. Why do you contradict Jesus own word, to push your own form of Preexistences. You alter scripture and make it say what in fact it does not say, John 1:1, does anyone see the word JESUS written there (NO), could it be because John forgot how to spell Jesus, (NO) it was because John did not (MEAN) Jesus he meant (WORD), (expressed intellect) coupled with Power = ONE GOD AS scripture and Jesus says. Question is do you believe what is specifically written or not. All preexistences have to add though to their interpretation of Scripture to mean their false assumptions, but many scripture contradict those thoughts, remember its the (SUM) of GOD”S word thats (TRUTH). IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene
Gene everyone knows the WORD is Jesus,”And the WORD was made flesh and dwelt among us.( John 1:14)
cindy, Yes., I am baptized! its not that you just left out the word (beginning) in Col. 1;18 it says “who is the beginning”.Please explain to me (16) that says all things were created in heaven and earth by Jesus by Him and for Him.(19) says in Him ALL fulness dwells. Could you just tell me what bible says:Col. 1;15 as first creation? It's not the King James. Hebrews 12:2 says Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith, and we both know that Jesus laid down His life for us, so why does 1 John 3:26 say God laid down His life for us? How come Thomas called Jesus “MY LORD AND MY GOD” Col. 1:13 tells us the kingdom is the Sons, Rev. 22:13 Jesus says: I am the ALPHA AND OMEGA,the beginning and the end, the first and the last- I would really like to know what you think these scriptures mean? ( and please let me know where your getting first creation)
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 17 2009,16:16) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 17 2009,09:18) Quote (Gene @ Aug. 17 2009,04:15) To All……….Can anyone HERE explain (HOW) a WORD (CAN) literally (BECOME) FLESH? That is IMPOSSIBLE!. IMO peace and love……………………gene
G,
Does something that is written need to be understood by you to be truth?
Nick……….If I don't understand something it is nether true or false until I can comprehend It in true light, then it makes sense to me , the (WORD) did not (BECOME FLESH) because a (WORD) can not (become) flesh, it is spirit and can exist (IN) a Flesh being. The words in Jesus were (NOT) even His as He said , so how could His Flesh literally be the word. The key is to understand the meaning of (became), it means (came to be in) a flesh and blood human being, (Jesus).We must put the sum of scripture together to get to truth brother. IMOpeace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Hi Gene:The prophetic Word became became a reality or became flesh.
Love in Christ,
MartyAnswer: The term “Godhead” is found three times in the King James Version: Acts 17:29, Romans 1:20, Colossians 2:9. Three different Greek words are used, but each one means “divinity.” It is important for us to understand from the outset that God exists in three Persons. The concept of the Godhead is that God is one yet God is three. How can this be?
While the word “trinity” is not found in the Scriptures, the concept is found there from beginning to end. There is no question about it—the doctrine of the Trinity is divinely revealed biblical truth: our one God exists in three persons. That is not to say that the authors of Scripture understood it clearly. When Peter, John, and the other disciples first saw Jesus they did not say, “Oh look, there goes God in flesh, the second person of the holy Trinity.” Yet as they heard Him claim to be the revelation of the Father with the prerogatives of deity, and as they watched Him perform the supernatural works of deity, they came to the convinced persuasion that He was God the Son.
Additionally, they probably gave very little thought at first to the Holy Spirit being the third person of the eternal Godhead. But when the events of the day of Pentecost had ended, it was obvious to them that the power they had witnessed working in them and through them was not their own. It was the power of God. The Spirit who indwelled them was none other than God Himself. So then, led by that same divine Spirit, they revealed to us in their writings the Trinity of the eternal God.
Explanation of the triune Godhead
What then does it mean that God exists as the Trinity? It is a basic principle of our biblical faith that there is only one God. “Hear, O Israel! The LORD our God, the LORD is one!” (Deuteronomy 6:4). The unity of the Godhead cannot be questioned. God does not consist of parts. He is one. But Scripture reveals that there are, in that one divine essence, three eternal distinctions. Those distinctions seem best described as persons, known as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. All three have identical attributes, however, and therefore they are one—not merely one in mind and purpose, but one in substance. To possess all the exact same attributes is to be one in essential nature. The three persons of the Godhead possess identical attributes. They are one in substance and one in essence, and therefore they are one God.Evidence for the Triune Godhead
While the primary emphasis of the Old Testament is on the unity of God, the indications of His triune nature are clearly seen even there. We need not read very far to find the first one: “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1). Elohim, the Hebrew name for God in this verse, is plural. That may not prove the Trinity, but it definitely points to more than one person in the Godhead. There was no other logical reason to choose a plural name. As such, we are not surprised, then, to hear Him say a short time later, “Let us make man in our image” (Genesis 1:26, emphasis added). The plural pronouns could not refer to angels because they were never associated with God in His creative activity. Consequently, more than one divine person was clearly involved. The plural pronouns make no sense otherwise (Genesis 3:22; Genesis 11:7). John reiterates this truth when, speaking of Jesus, he declares: “Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made” (John 1:3). Clearly Jesus was present and involved in the act of creation and yet Genesis 1:1 says that “God created the heavens and the earth.”The undeniable biblical testimony to the Trinity is simply that all three persons are referred to as divine. First, the Father is called God. He is referred to as “God the Father” (Galatians 1:1), “God our Father” (Galatians 1:3; Ephesians 1:2), and “the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ” (Ephesians 1:3). His deity is unquestioned. But the Son is likewise referred to as God. He possesses the attributes of deity such as eternality, immutability, omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence. He bears the names of deity such as Jehovah, Lord, Immanuel, and the Word. He even permitted Thomas to call Him “my Lord and my God” (John 20:28). He exercises the prerogatives of deity such as forgiving sins, raising the dead, and judging all men. And He accepts worship reserved only for God.
Jesus claimed that He deserved the very same reverence that was reserved for God the Father. He was not a liar or a lunatic, so He must have been who He claimed to be—God the Son, equal with the Father and worthy of the same honor as the Father. The Father Himself addressed His Son as God: “But about the Son He says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever’” (Hebrews 1:8). Paul further explains that “in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily” (Colossians 2:9). The Greek word translated “godhead” is theotēs which means “divinity,” so the totality of divinity (God) is in Jesus. The prologue to John’s gospel tells us one reason Christ came to earth: to make the Father known, to reveal God to men (John 1:18). We can know more of what God is like by examining the person of Jesus Christ. He was God in flesh. As we explore Scripture and seek to discover who God is, we cannot neglect the earthly life of Jesus Christ. He is God the Son.
But the Holy Spirit is also part of the Godhead. His name is “the Spirit of God” (Genesis 1:2). He too possesses the attributes of deity and performs the works of deity. While He is the Spirit who proceeds from the Father (John 15:26), He is at the same time called “the Spirit of Christ” (Romans 8:9). He is coequal with both the Father and the Son. The apostle Peter clearly viewed Him as God when he said to Ananias, “Why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit? . . . You have not lied to men, but to God” (Acts 5:3-4). If the Father, the Son, and the Spirit all bear the names of God, possess the attributes of God, and perform the works of God, then there is no alternative but to acknowledge that our one God exists in three persons.
The Ministry of the Triune Godhead
Scripture links these three persons of the Godhead together so closely in so many divine activities that it would be foolish to deny that any one of them is God. Observe some of those activities.• Creating the World. All three were involved in creation: the Father (Genesis 1:1); the Son (John 1:3, 10; Colossians 1:16); and the Spirit (Genesis 1:2, Psalm 104:30). If all three created, then God the Creator must exist in three persons.
• Sending the Son. All three members of the Trinity were active in the incarnation. When Mary questioned the angel about the possibility of a virgin birth, the angel answered her, “The angel answered, ‘The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God’” (Luke 1:35). The power of the Father, ministered through the agency of the Spirit, resulted in the birth of the Son into the world. This close association in the birth of the Savior is further indication of their oneness.
• Identifying the Messiah. At precisely the proper moment, Jesus Christ was revealed to Israel as her Messiah. John the Baptist was the chosen instrument and the act of baptism was the chosen means (Matthew 3:16-17). As the Spirit came upon the Son, the Father’s voice was heard from heaven expressing His approval. It was another powerful testimony to the eternal triune Godhead.
• Providing Redemption. Two central passages bring the three members of the Godhead together in providing for man’s eternal salvation. “How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!” (Hebrews 9:14). It was the offering of the Son to the
Father by the power of the Spirit. The Apostle Peter taught, furthermore, that God the Father chose us to salvation, God the Son paid for it by shedding His blood, and God the Spirit set us apart unto the obedience of faith (1 Peter 1:1-2). Without each person of the Godhead doing His part, we would remain in our sins.• Proclaiming Salvation. In the early years of the church, God did some spectacular things to verify the gospel message which the apostles were preaching. The writer to the Hebrews tells us: “How shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation? After it was at the first spoken through the Lord, it was confirmed to us by those who heard, God also bearing witness with them, both by signs and wonders and by various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit according to His own will” (Hebrews 2:3-4). It was the same message that was first spoken by the Son Himself. When the apostles proclaimed it, the Father bore witness to its truthfulness by bestowing miraculous gifts through the Spirit. It was not only a powerful witness to the truth of the message, but another demonstration of the triune God at work.
• Sending the Spirit. The three persons of the Trinity are so interwoven in sending the Spirit into the world that it is difficult to distinguish between them. In one passage it is stated that the Father would send the Spirit in Christ’s name and that He would testify concerning Christ (John 14:26). In another it is said that the Son would send Him from the Father (John 15:26). In yet another, the Father sends Him and calls Him the Spirit of His Son (Galatians 4:6). What a picture of unity—such perfect unity that the actions of one are considered to be the actions of the other. The Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son. But all three are vitally involved in His coming.
• Indwelling Believers. Jesus taught His disciples that both He and His Father would make their home with them (John 14:23). But their indwelling would be in the person of the Comforter, the Spirit of truth (John 14:16-17). As the Spirit of both the Father and the Son, His indwelling is the indwelling of the Godhead. That would not be possible unless the three are one.
• Baptizing Believers. In our Lord’s commission to His disciples He said, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:19). The unity of the Godhead is declared by combining them in one “name” (singular). Yet the distinctiveness of the persons is maintained by listing them separately. It is another link in the long chain of evidence that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are one God.
• Entering God’s Presence. All three members of the Godhead are intimately involved in the believer’s access into the presence of God. Speaking of Christ, the apostle Paul taught, “For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit” (Ephesians 2:18). Both Jews and Gentiles can approach the Father through the merits of the Son with the help of the Spirit.
• Blessing Believers. In Paul’s final remarks to the Corinthian Christians he linked the three members of the Godhead together in a beautiful benediction: “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all” (2 Corinthians 13:14). Unless the three are one, eternally and equally supreme, there would be little reason to put them together on an equal basis like this in a divine blessing. The apostle certainly considered them to be one.
The reality of the triune Godhead cannot be denied. Those outside of Christ may object to it, but their objections arise primarily because they seek to understand the Creator in terms of the creature, to see God as merely a bigger and better version of man when in reality He is a totally different kind of being, an infinite being whom our finite minds cannot fully comprehend. We believe in the Godhead not because we understand it, but because God has revealed it. It is not incidental or unimportant. It is the very essence of His being, the way He is. And it is necessary for us to know it if we hope to grow in our understanding of His nature and perfections.
“What Bible teach about the Trinity?”
Answer: The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to adequately explain it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible.
The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who make up God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:
1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).
2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun Elohim is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word Elohim and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for God, Elohim, definitely allows for the Trinity.
In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct persons in the Trinity.
3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another person in the Trinity—the Father.
4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).
5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.
6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17, 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.
The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.
The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.
There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.
The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are clearly presented in God’s Word, some of the side issues are not as explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God—but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of God's greatness and His infinitely higher nature. “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 11:33-34
“What the Bible teach's about the Trinity?”
Answer: The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to adequately explain it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible.
The Trinity is one God existing in three Persons. Understand that this is not in any way suggesting three Gods. Keep in mind when studying this subject that the word “Trinity” is not found in Scripture. This is a term that is used to attempt to describe the triune God—three coexistent, co-eternal Persons who make up God. Of real importance is that the concept represented by the word “Trinity” does exist in Scripture. The following is what God’s Word says about the Trinity:
1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5).
2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:1, 26; 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8, 48:16, 61:1; Matthew 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14). In Genesis 1:1, the Hebrew plural noun Elohim is used. In Genesis 1:26, 3:22, 11:7 and Isaiah 6:8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word Elohim and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for God, Elohim, definitely allows for the Trinity.
In Isaiah 48:16 and 61:1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:1 to Luke 4:14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:14 are examples of three distinct persons in the Trinity.
3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another person in the Trinity—the Father.
4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:27; Romans 1:7; 1 Peter 1:2). The Son is God (John 1:1, 14; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8; 1 John 5:20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:16).
5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.
6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:17, 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.
The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.
The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus' works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.
There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.
The doctrine of the Trinity has been a divisive issue throughout the entire history of the Christian church. While the core aspects of the Trinity are clearly presented in God’s Word, some of the side issues are not as explicitly clear. The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God—but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. Beyond that, the issues are, to a certain extent, debatable and non-essential. Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of God's greatness and His infinitely higher nature. “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 11:33-34
Quote (katjo @ Aug. 18 2009,07:49) cindy, Yes., I am baptized! its not that you just left out the word (beginning) in Col. 1;18 it says “who is the beginning”.Please explain to me (16) that says all things were created in heaven and earth by Jesus by Him and for Him.(19) says in Him ALL fulness dwells. Could you just tell me what bible says:Col. 1;15 as first creation? It's not the King James. Hebrews 12:2 says Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith, and we both know that Jesus laid down His life for us, so why does 1 John 3:26 say God laid down His life for us? How come Thomas called Jesus “MY LORD AND MY GOD” Col. 1:13 tells us the kingdom is the Sons, Rev. 22:13 Jesus says: I am the ALPHA AND OMEGA,the beginning and the end, the first and the last- I would really like to know what you think these scriptures mean? ( and please let me know where your getting first creation)
Can you read? You are the one who leaves things out. What is your problem?
My King James Bible states what I wrote in my previous post.
Col. 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, THE FIRSTBOPRN OVER ALL CREATION.
It is indeed in the King Jasmes Bible. Col. 1:18 tells us this:” He is the Head of the body the Church, who is the beginning , THE FIRSTBORN FROM THE DEAD, THAT IN ALL THINGS HE WILL HAVE PREEMINENCE.If you don't believe me what preeminence means look it up in a Dictonary.
It means that He was first in all. He was the firstborn over all creation and firstborn from the death.
This is the last time that I am saying something about this.
Prove all things and I have. If you can;t read is not my problem.
IreneIrene said:
Quote If you don't believe me what preeminence means look it up in a Dictonary.
It means that He was first in all. He was the firstborn over all creation and firstborn from the death.
This is the last time that I am saying something about this.
Prove all things and I have. If you can;t read is not my problem.Pre-eminence may also be translated “supreme.”
Quote And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy (NIV) Christ is SUPREME Irene. This is basic Christianity!
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 18 2009,11:03) Irene said: Quote If you don't believe me what preeminence means look it up in a Dictonary.
It means that He was first in all. He was the firstborn over all creation and firstborn from the death.
This is the last time that I am saying something about this.
Prove all things and I have. If you can;t read is not my problem.Pre-eminence may also be translated “supreme.”
Quote And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy (NIV) Christ is SUPREME Irene. This is basic Christianity!
thinker
Yes it can mean that, but in this case it is that He Jesus was first in all, or before all. I too looked it up in our big Random Dictionary. However that changes not the fact that Jesus was the firstborn of all creation and firstborn of the dead.
Co.1:15 and
Col. 1:18
We also have the NIV of the Bible which I don't use. It is newer then the King James Rye Study Bible. The King James is more like the original Greek and Hebrew bibles.Irene
Im sorry, you are really confusing me-Because I was trying to show you that all was made by Jesus and know your saying He was there from the beginning I literally scanned my King James to show you Col. 1;15 SAYS FIRST BORN OF EVERY CREATURE. (If I can get it to post)I HOPE YOU READ MY POST ON THE TRINITY. And I dont know what you think I left out, what did I leave out? Im really sorry this has caused you to have a attitude. God Bless!
katjo wrote:
Quote Answer: The term “Godhead” is found three times in the King James Version: Acts 17:29, Romans 1:20, Colossians 2:9. Three different Greek words are used, but each one means “divinity.”
That is certainly not what I have heard. I have heard that Godhead originally meant the unknown things of God or in other words they are only in the head of God.
You have to remember that Christianity is the true Hebrew faith and not those who today call themselves Jews.
It is only one root word “theos” that is often translated God.
The three words are theios, theiotes, and theotes and they are not always translated to Godhead.
Theios is used three times and translated only once to Godhead in the KJV, Acts 17:29. The other two times it is translated divine, 2 Peter 1:3 and 2 Peter 1:4.
Here are those later two passages replaced with the word Godhead as you choose to define it.
2 Peter 1:3(KJV modified) reads:
Quote According as his trinity power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2 Peter 1:4(KJV modified) reads:
Quote Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the trinity nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
I guess that all that believe truly become part of the Godhead according to Peter. It sounds rather Gnostic though it would be true if we are speaking of the unity of the Spirit instead of the trinity.
The other two words are only used once each so to peg them down in a like manner is made more difficult.
I just know I believe in the trinity because my bible tells me so.
Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 18 2009,11:03) Irene said: Quote If you don't believe me what preeminence means look it up in a Dictonary.
It means that He was first in all. He was the firstborn over all creation and firstborn from the death.
This is the last time that I am saying something about this.
Prove all things and I have. If you can;t read is not my problem.Pre-eminence may also be translated “supreme.”
Quote And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy (NIV) Christ is SUPREME Irene. This is basic Christianity!
thinker
Thinker……….That is basic TRINITARIAN , NOT BASIC CHRISTIANITY, they believe Jesus is greater then the father that why you hardly ever hear the Father”s Name ever mention at there services, They worship Jesus at the expense of the FATHER , But Jesus Worshiped the FATHER as above Him an all things. They have replaced the (ONLY TRUE GOD) with three Beings they call all GOD. Pure garbage and false teachings from deluded minds. 2 Ths 2. IMOpeace and love………………….gene
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