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sorry it failed and I tryed again and it posted twice.
katjo wrote:
Quote You are not finishing the scripture out in 1 John 5;20 IT IS SIMPLY TELLING YOU THAT JESUS CHRIST IS THE TRUE GOD, and eternal life
That is certainly not what John was stating. He is simply telling us that God's purpose, word, has been from the beginning and bore fruit in Jesus the Anointed one. It is the same message that is repeated by other scripture writers.
I assure you that eternal life is gained from obeying all of Jesus' teachings. Perhaps that was what you were attempting to state in part.
In John 1:1 We know the word was Jesus(14: says the word became flesh)If the word was Jesus than we could read john1:1 AS:In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with God, and Jesus was God! 3 tells us all things were made by Him. and thats' pertainng to Jesus because 4 tells us In Him was life and the life was the light if men.
In John 1:1 We know the word was Jesus(14: says the word became flesh)If the word was Jesus than we could read john1:1 AS:In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with God, and Jesus was God! 3 tells us all things were made by Him. and thats' pertainng to Jesus because 4 tells us In Him was life and the life was the light if men.
Quote (katjo @ Aug. 16 2009,08:04) In John 1:1 We know the word was Jesus(14: says the word became flesh)If the word was Jesus than we could read john1:1 AS:In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with God, and Jesus was God! 3 tells us all things were made by Him. and thats' pertainng to Jesus because 4 tells us In Him was life and the life was the light if men.
Hi Katjo:But that is not what the author of the gospel of John said. If Jesus was with God and Jesus was God then there would be two Gods.
The scriptures state:
Quote Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all(including Jesus), and through all, and in you all. And:
Quote 1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 15 2009,16:01) Cathy don't think because of the catholic church believed in the trinity and you feel that now that you've found them to be a deceitful sect, that trinitarianism is false as well. One of the devils greatest powers is to mix truth's with falsehood to steer people off track.
Fortunately trinitarianism isn't one of those things.
So please don't condemn a truth as a lie, just because you heard it from liars…Liars do tell the truth sometimes, even if they don't know it themselves.
If trinitarianism is false, then how can we reconcile claims The Father made stating he created creation alone, then in other verse we see him giving that credit to The Son?
How can we also believe Jesus telling The Father to restore the glory he SHARED with him before the world was, when it was clear that The Father had no Gods before him, and would not share his glory with another?
Please if you feel trinitarianism is wrong, then reconcile all these contradictions with logically explainations.
With trinitarianism, all these things makes sense…without…it seems the bible is filled with unreconcilable contradictions.
The glory that Jesus had with His Father before the world was, He was a Spirit being. not only that but the Father exulted Him next to Him on the Throne and He has divinity now and can die no more. But that doe not erase the fact that the Father is greater.
I said this before it was not any of the Apostles that ever taught the trinity or believed so. It was Quintus Septimus Florens Tertullian that instituted it. He was born to Pagan Parents in A.D. 155.
The Christians were heavy persecuted and died., by the Romans. And then the Catholic Church did.
It was the emperor Constantine who in A.D. 313 after a brutal and bloody persecution He issued an edict, granting the Christian full freedom to practice their religion.A.D. 321 He issued an edit, forbidding work on Sundays, and making it a day of worship.
There is so much more about Ancient History, but being 70 years old, I get tired sooner then before. That is when the Sabbath was taken away.
The Catholic Church forbid to own ore read the Bible. Those that were caught were tortured and killed.
All literature in the Mass were in Latin, until around 1970 I think I can't remember the exact date. I still do remember it.
Most just trusted the Priest's. We had a Catholic Bible in 1961 as a Wedding Present from my Brother-In Law. However we never read in it.Also I never believe in another Human what they believe, I believe in the Bible and I prove all. I will never fall into that trap again, I have learned my lesson being in the Catholic Church.
Notice that my Name is Irene and my users Name is Cindy.
We do have a Kathi Her users name is Lightenup.
Peace and Love Irene
katjo wrote:
Quote In John 1:1 We know the word was Jesus(
That is strange since when I read John 1:1 the passage seems to be stating the Word is God’s Word which is both with him and is him because he does as he states..
katjo wrote:
Quote 14: says the word became flesh)
And what else would you write when the word if fulfilled and thus take a physical being instead of being just potential (prophesied).
In other words John is just stating the same thing that Paul does in his second letter to Timothy with these words.
2 Timothy 1:9(End)-10 (NIV) reads:
Quote This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.
kerwin I stand in agreement with your statement, i tend to believe that ones that believe in the trinity are of this world, because every other religion claims the same, one god had another god and he was god and so on and so forth………
to place your salvation on a man of flesh and blood is no good for them, that have to have the 'god' in order to make it right for them, they think the that father came down from his kingdom, and decided to be a great puppet master, they believe that he spoke to himself in the second person, makes no sense.
pick a scripture one that has father and son written and then translate like they say……..lets pick just one…….yohanan one of my favorite (12.44)
then messiah christ cried out and said ' he who believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me………
so explain this one……………
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 16 2009,12:38) katjo wrote: Quote In John 1:1 We know the word was Jesus(
That is strange since when I read John 1:1 the passage seems to be stating the Word is God’s Word which is both with him and is him because he does as he states..
katjo wrote:
Quote 14: says the word became flesh)
And what else would you write when the word if fulfilled and thus take a physical being instead of being just potential (prophesied).
In other words John is just stating the same thing that Paul does in his second letter to Timothy with these words.
2 Timothy 1:9(End)-10 (NIV) reads:
Quote This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel.
Sorry but I read it this way.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
verse 2 ” He was in the beginning with God.”
If you read on you see that He also was called the light of men.
verse 14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
We know who it was that dwelt among us, right? It was Jesus.
John bore witness of Him and cried out saying,:” He who comes after me is preferred before me, because He was before me.If you think that it was not Jesus, then who is it?
God is a title and the Almighty God the Father will always be above all.
One more thing, You say that it is Gods Word, so He became flesh? Not so. The Word that became flesh was named Jesus. I don't belief in a trinity. And I have proven it.Peace and Love Irene
Cindy If you say that in John1:1 the word that became flesh was Jesus than what does the word was God mean?
To All……….Can anyone HERE explain (HOW) a WORD (CAN) literally (BECOME) FLESH? That is IMPOSSIBLE!. IMO
peace and love……………………gene
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 17 2009,04:15) To All……….Can anyone HERE explain (HOW) a WORD (CAN) literally (BECOME) FLESH? That is IMPOSSIBLE!. IMO peace and love……………………gene
Gene If you would just think of the Word as being the Spokesword for God the Father, it would make more sense to you. We really don't know why John said what He did. But we can't ignore it, though. Besides we have other Scriptures that shows us, that Jesus preexisted His Birth as a Human Being.
Col. 1:15-17
Rev. 3:14
He is the firstborn over all creation.
John 17:5 says this:” And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You, before the world was.” He was a Spirit being and wanted it back. He not only got that back, He also is divine now and can't die no more.
Also in John 1:3 He said that He made all.
verse 4 In him was life and the light was the light of men.And I have always said IMO God is a title.
Peace and Love Irene
no Cindy you havent proved it at all. Read this threw because I want you to answer some questions for me at the end. I dont know if you understand my believes but “I DO” believe in the trinity an no one could make me think different.Could you explain to me JOhn1:1 when you said (the word became flesh was Jesus) thats right, so how can you explain the word(Jesus) was God.(right there is proving it) every one who says those who believe in the trinity cant even explain it when there is alot of people trying to explain it but your ignoring it. Its very bothersome to hear some one say Jesus is not your Saviour. He shed His blood for us, and he is the only way to salvation!Your free gift! If you dont have faith in Jesus than you have nothing. Hebrews 12:2 tells us Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith! 2 John 1:9 says if you dont abide in the doctrine of Christ than you dont have God!If Jesus laid down His life for us ,than why does 1 John 3: 26 say; God laid down His life for us? Ephesians 1: 7says: In whom we have redemption throught His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace. Phillippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow,of things in heaven and things in earth (11) and every tongue should confess that jesus Christ is Lord. so could you explain to me why Thomas called Jesus (My Lord and my God) Why 1John 1:1 says the word(Jesus) is God why Colossians 1:13 tells us that the kingdom is the Sons, (15)first born of every creature,(16) all things were created by Jesus, by Him and for Him, why in Rev 22:13 Jesus says: I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last ( i could list alot more) but i wont. So can you tell me how what the meanings of these are -if there wrong?
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 17 2009,04:15) To All……….Can anyone HERE explain (HOW) a WORD (CAN) literally (BECOME) FLESH? That is IMPOSSIBLE!. IMO peace and love……………………gene
G,
Does something that is written need to be understood by you to be truth?it's spiritual Gene
to katjo:
a few years back a forum friend come with this belief that when Christ assended to the kingdom, the Father became null and void, just went right out the picture, and Christ then became God, is this part of your belief ?
Princess of the king – No that is not what I believe. Jesus was from the beginning. God is spirit that lives in Jesus and when you ask jesus for forgiveness of your sins and to be your Lord and Saviour, than the Holy spirit dwells in us . Than enstead of living your life in the flesh(apart from God) you start living a spiritual life. Being obedient to God, Letting God direct your life by His word.
Cindy, I really which you would really look at Colossians 1;15 and read word for word beacause you are not quotting it right at all. and you replyed to Gene “first born over all creation.” it says “firstborn of every creature” Where are you getting that at? That IS NOT in the bible. Gods word says whoever adds to His word or takes out will have there name taking out of the book of life! And I was waiting on a reply I sent earlier to see if you could explain some scriptures to me that I quoted.
Quote (katjo @ Aug. 17 2009,07:31) no Cindy you havent proved it at all. Read this threw because I want you to answer some questions for me at the end. I dont know if you understand my believes but “I DO” believe in the trinity an no one could make me think different.Could you explain to me JOhn1:1 when you said (the word became flesh was Jesus) thats right, so how can you explain the word(Jesus) was God.(right there is proving it) every one who says those who believe in the trinity cant even explain it when there is alot of people trying to explain it but your ignoring it. Its very bothersome to hear some one say Jesus is not your Saviour. He shed His blood for us, and he is the only way to salvation!Your free gift! If you dont have faith in Jesus than you have nothing. Hebrews 12:2 tells us Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith! 2 John 1:9 says if you dont abide in the doctrine of Christ than you dont have God!If Jesus laid down His life for us ,than why does 1 John 3: 26 say; God laid down His life for us? Ephesians 1: 7says: In whom we have redemption throught His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace. Phillippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow,of things in heaven and things in earth (11) and every tongue should confess that jesus Christ is Lord. so could you explain to me why Thomas called Jesus (My Lord and my God) Why 1John 1:1 says the word(Jesus) is God why Colossians 1:13 tells us that the kingdom is the Sons, (15)first born of every creature,(16) all things were created by Jesus, by Him and for Him, why in Rev 22:13 Jesus says: I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last ( i could list alot more) but i wont. So can you tell me how what the meanings of these are -if there wrong?
Where did I say that Jesus is not our Savior. No way. He is our Savior and it is the New Covenant in His Blood that we are under. If you would know me, you would not say what you did. As far as the trinity doctrine is concerned it is a doctrine that a man named Quintus Septimus Florence Tertullian, who was the first to instituded that doctrine in
A.D. 193.
First by Jesus own words He said in
John 14:28 ,,,, My Father is greater than I.
Ephesians 4:6 says this:” one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in uus all.In the Old Testament there are these Scriptures.
Deut.4:35 ” Unto thee was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD He is God, there is NONE else beside Him,
Deut. 6:4 ” Hear O Israel, THE LORD our God is one LORD.”
1 Corinth. 8:4 ” To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no
light in them.Math.” But in vain do they worship me,teaching the doctrine of men.”
Why did Jesus say that? It is because it is a Doctrine that a man came up with. The first Christians did not teach that.
I am so glad that God has opened our minds, my Husband and I, to come out of the Roman Cathlic Church, I am forever thankful to God for that.
What you are quoting is that Jesus preexisted His Birth as a man.
Col, 1:15-17
Rev. 3:14
I am ignoring nothing. Also
Col. 1:18 He is the head of the body the Church, who is the firstborn from the dead, that in all He may have preeminence. Meaning that He was first in all.
Irene
John 1:1 only proves that Jesus was God, but not that He was greater then the Father. God is a title, and you would know that if you know Ancient History.
Wy because the translators did not want to misspell Jehovah, so they used God instead. There is nio trinity.
IreneGene, sorry if I didnt answer you could enough The three are one. Father, son, and Holy Spirit (1John 5:7)god is spirit that lives in Christ. Colossians 3:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. (9) For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily..3:4 when Christ who is our life shall appear, then shall you also appear with Him in glory.
Cindy, First of all I thought you where the one that said Jesus was not our Savour, and I am sorry if you wasnt)sure I know the Lord our God is one God. Phillipians 2:11 every tongue should confess that jesus Christ is Lord. Im not saying there is more than one God BUT you just quoted john 1;1 and said “that only proves that Jesus was God but not greater than the Father” So thats saying you believe in more than one God? And I really dont know where your going with Col.1:18 because thats talking about Jesus but you left out the part that says: “who is the beginning”! 1John 5:7 tells us the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one. Can you please tell me how you are getting Col.1:15 as saying first born of all creation?”I cant figure were you are getting that at. Could you explain to me the verses I ask you to in my last post. and No Im not a catholic, Im a Baptist
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