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To all,
Elohim, is a Hebrew word for God and it is a plural word.
Here is a site for information on the Hebrew word “Elohim”
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Names_of_G-d/Elohim/elohim.htmlQuote The name Elohim is unique to Hebraic thinking: is occurs only in Hebrew and in no other Semitic language. The masculine plural ending does not mean “gods” when feferring to the true God if Israel, since the name is mainly used with singular verb forms and with adjectives and pronouns in the singular (e.g., see Gen. 1:26). However, considering Hashalush HaKadosh (Trinity), the form indeed allows for the plurality withing the Godhead. Here is a verse to back up what I am saying.
This link is for a Hebrew Interlinear so as to prove that Elohim is the word that is used.
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen3.pdf
Genesis 3:22
Quote . And the LORD (Yahweh) God (Elohim)
said, Behold, the man is
become as one of us, to
know good and evil: and
now, lest he put forth his
hand, and take also of the
tree of life, and eat, and live
for ever:So here is Scripture to back it up. God is a plural entity.
TC27
Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 31 2009,04:39) To all, Elohim, is a Hebrew word for God and it is a plural word.
Here is a site for information on the Hebrew word “Elohim”
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Names_of_G-d/Elohim/elohim.htmlQuote The name Elohim is unique to Hebraic thinking: is occurs only in Hebrew and in no other Semitic language. The masculine plural ending does not mean “gods” when feferring to the true God if Israel, since the name is mainly used with singular verb forms and with adjectives and pronouns in the singular (e.g., see Gen. 1:26). However, considering Hashalush HaKadosh (Trinity), the form indeed allows for the plurality withing the Godhead. Here is a verse to back up what I am saying.
This link is for a Hebrew Interlinear so as to prove that Elohim is the word that is used.
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen3.pdf
Genesis 3:22
Quote . And the LORD (Yahweh) God (Elohim)
said, Behold, the man is
become as one of us, to
know good and evil: and
now, lest he put forth his
hand, and take also of the
tree of life, and eat, and live
for ever:So here is Scripture to back it up. God is a plural entity.
TC27
I believe that you are going to have several of us, prove to you that what you are saying is false. Unless you say that the Bible is not the Word of God.
By Jesus own word in
John 14:28 ….. for the Father is greater then I.
Ephesians 4:6 One Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
There is no Trinity.
Also think about this:” If that would be so the Holy Spirit would be the Father of Jesus.” Also the Word God is a tittle, the Fathers Name is Jehovah. Also the Word you give for prove does not make a difference, when we know that it was the Word that became flesh was the one with the Father before His birth on earth. He also is the one by the power of the Father created all. He is the firstborn of all creation.
Rev. 3:14
Col. 1:15-17
John 1:1-3Your explanation has wholes in it.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 31 2009,04:39) Genesis 3:22 Quote . And the LORD (Yahweh) God (Elohim)
said, Behold, the man is
become as one of us, to
know good and evil: and
now, lest he put forth his
hand, and take also of the
tree of life, and eat, and live
for ever:So here is Scripture to back it up. God is a plural entity.
TC27
Your quote could also be used by those suggesting evidence of henotheism in early hebrew thought and literature and not necessarily support for the concept of the trinity. It matches with other references like having no other gods before me better then the trinity concept.1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men–the testimony given in its proper time.
John 17:3Thee the only true God
Romans 15:6God, even the Father
1 Corinthians 8:6One God, the Father
1 Corinthians 15:24To God, even the Father
2 Corinthians 1:3God, even the Father
Ephesians 1:17God of our Lord Jesus Christ
Ephesians 4:6One God and Father of All
1 Thessalonians 3:13God, even our Father
2 Thessalonians 2:16God, even our Father
James 3:9God, even the Father
2 John 3From God the FatherJohn 20:17To my God and your God
Revelation 3:12My God, my God, my God, my God
Matthew 27:46My God, my God, why hast thou
Mark 15:34My God, my God, why hast thou
Psalm 22:1My God, my God, why hast thou
2 Corinthians 11:31The God and Father of our Lord
Ephesians 1:3The God and Father of our Lord
Ephesians 1:17The God of our Lord Jesus Christ
1 Peter 1:3The God and Father of our Lord
Hebrews 1:8, 9God, even thy God, hath anointed
Psalm 45:6, 7God, thy God hath anointed thee
Revelation 1:6Unto his God (R.S.V., Diaglott)
2 Corinthians 1:3God of our Lord Jesus (R.S.V.)John 14:28The Father is greater than I
John 10:29My Father is greater than all
1 Corinthians 11:3The head of Christ is God
1 Corinthians 3:23Christ is God's
Matthew 20:23Not mine to give but my Father
1 Corinthians 15:24-28Son himself subject to FatherZechariah 3:8My Servant the Branch
Matthew 12:18Behold my servant
Philippians 2:7, 8The form of a servant
Hebrews 10:7, 9I come to do thy will, 0 God
John 4:34I do the will of him
John 5:30The will of him that sent me
John 6:38Not to do mine own will
John 8:29Those things that please him
Luke 22:42Not my will, but thine
Romans 5:19Through the obedience of oneLuke 2:52Jesus increased in wisdom
John 5:19What he seeth the Father do
John 8:28As the Father hath taught me
Mark 13:32Did not know date of His return
Acts 1:7In Father's authority
John 5:19Son can do nothing of himself
John 5:30Of mine own self do nothing
John 8:28I do nothing of myself
John 14:10He doeth the works1 Corinthians 8:4 Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
Scripture unequivocally shows us that the One and Only True God exists as ONE person known as the Father. The above scripture clearly takes Jesus OUT of the equation of being the One True God. Jesus is the Son of the One True God.
The Father, the ONE and only True God, the one referred to as the Father and God of Jesus, is called Elohiym.
Elohiym means POWERS!
The One and Only True God the Father, He exists with not one power, but many powers.
IMO it is in major error to say that because elohiym is plural that proves that the only one true God exists as three persons. The Father, who is the one and only true God existing as ONE person, is called Elohiym because His being makes up many POWERS.
The One True God is known as elohiym, not because He is three persons in one God, but because He is one person existing with multiple powers.
Jodi……….Amen sis, you've got It. Elohim simply means Powers and there are Seven Spirit Powers of GOD. This is the “Let US” referred to in Geneses , When it says LORD GOD , it simply means LORD (He Exists) GOD (with powers) Elohim is a uni-Plural word ONE GOD with Multiple POWERS. The LORD shares these Powers with his whole creation, some in a lesser way and some in a greater way You have it right. Is it interesting with all those scriptures you posted Trinitarians can't even understand the simple truth that Jesus is Not GOD himself. Amazing !. It is refreshing to see the soundness of GOD'S spirit at work in Some. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours Jodi………………………gene
Quote (Gene @ July 31 2009,07:39) Jodi……….Amen sis, you've got It. Elohim simply means Powers and there are Seven Spirit Powers of GOD. This is the “Let US” referred to in Geneses , When it says LORD GOD , it simply means LORD (He Exists) GOD (with powers) Elohim is a uni-Plural word ONE GOD with Multiple POWERS. The LORD shares these Powers with his whole creation, some in a lesser way and some in a greater way You have it right. Is it interesting with all those scriptures you posted Trinitarians can't even understand the simple truth that Jesus is Not GOD himself. Amazing !. It is refreshing to see the soundness of GOD'S spirit at work in Some. IMO Peace and love to you and yours Jodi………………………gene
Gene,If Elohim simply means “powers” as you say (which it can), then why does it follow directly after Yahweh in Genesis 3:22? In Genesis 3:22, it is directly translated from the Hebrew, Yahweh Elohim, to Lord God. So in this circumstance Elohim does not simply mean power. You need to look at it in context.
TC27
Hi TC,
Who was God speaking with?
Was God alone or speaking to others or speaking to Himself?The sons of God rejoiced when the foundations of earth were laid.[jb38]
Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ Aug. 01 2009,05:57) Quote (Gene @ July 31 2009,07:39) Jodi……….Amen sis, you've got It. Elohim simply means Powers and there are Seven Spirit Powers of GOD. This is the “Let US” referred to in Geneses , When it says LORD GOD , it simply means LORD (He Exists) GOD (with powers) Elohim is a uni-Plural word ONE GOD with Multiple POWERS. The LORD shares these Powers with his whole creation, some in a lesser way and some in a greater way You have it right. Is it interesting with all those scriptures you posted Trinitarians can't even understand the simple truth that Jesus is Not GOD himself. Amazing !. It is refreshing to see the soundness of GOD'S spirit at work in Some. IMO Peace and love to you and yours Jodi………………………gene
Gene,If Elohim simply means “powers” as you say (which it can), then why does it follow directly after Yahweh in Genesis 3:22? In Genesis 3:22, it is directly translated from the Hebrew, Yahweh Elohim, to Lord God. So in this circumstance Elohim does not simply mean power. You need to look at it in context.
TC27
I have the Mechanical Translation of the Book of Genesis by Jeff A. Benner, who is founder I believe of the Ancient Hebrew Research Center,it reads
Genesis 3:22 and “YHWH [He exists]” of “Elohiym [Powers]” said, though the human had existed…….
3:23 and “YHWH [He exists]” of “Elohiym [Powers]” sent him from the garden of “Eden [Pleasure]” to serve the ground which from there he was taken,
YHWH exists with Powers. We see that it is those Powers or Elohiym that creates the heavens and the earth. The Powers exist through ONE person who's name is YHWH. There is ONE person who is the ONE True God and that is the Father, He is the One True God because there is NO one else that has His Powers. As Gene said, God is able to give these Powers to messengers. Moses and Jesus are two examples of men given the use of God's Powers, and as well the angles are often given certain Powers of God to accomplish the will of God.
Jodi……….Amen. well said sis. I believe it exactly that way. Our LORD (He Exists), GOD (with POWERS), There are seven distinct Powers that compose ONE GOD and These seven Powers are equipped with seven Spirits (intellects) and these Spirits are the eyes of GOD. And Jesus has been given all seven of these , He is the (slain) lamb shown before the throne of GOD who has seven eyes and seven horns which being understood means seven eyes (SPIRITS) intellect,with Seven horns POWERS, On which they (seven spirits) sit. Revelation say they (ARE) the seven SPIRITS of GOD that go to and fro into all the earth. These Seven Spirits are the (US), mentioned in Genesis. NOT GOD the FATHER and Jesus the SON as many claim. IMO
Peace and love Jodi, to you and yours………………………….gene
If you wish to get somewhat more informed to check out what wikipedia states here about the word Elohim instead of embracing outdated notions that did not take into effect the context of word use.
If you do not want to do the research then I see no reason to discuss it.
Kerwin………What makes you think we become more informed by going to Wikipedia, It only states what other believe and say about things , doesn't mean they are right. Jeff Benner's Book on the Mechanical translation of Genesis is one of the Best explained Hebrew text on how the ancient Hebrews understood the text , i believe there is in existence, and it fit all the rest of Bible texts also using the word Elohim or GOD. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Quote (Jodi Lee @ July 31 2009,11:38) Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ Aug. 01 2009,05:57) Quote (Gene @ July 31 2009,07:39) Jodi……….Amen sis, you've got It. Elohim simply means Powers and there are Seven Spirit Powers of GOD. This is the “Let US” referred to in Geneses , When it says LORD GOD , it simply means LORD (He Exists) GOD (with powers) Elohim is a uni-Plural word ONE GOD with Multiple POWERS. The LORD shares these Powers with his whole creation, some in a lesser way and some in a greater way You have it right. Is it interesting with all those scriptures you posted Trinitarians can't even understand the simple truth that Jesus is Not GOD himself. Amazing !. It is refreshing to see the soundness of GOD'S spirit at work in Some. IMO Peace and love to you and yours Jodi………………………gene
Gene,If Elohim simply means “powers” as you say (which it can), then why does it follow directly after Yahweh in Genesis 3:22? In Genesis 3:22, it is directly translated from the Hebrew, Yahweh Elohim, to Lord God. So in this circumstance Elohim does not simply mean power. You need to look at it in context.
TC27
I have the Mechanical Translation of the Book of Genesis by Jeff A. Benner, who is founder I believe of the Ancient Hebrew Research Center,it reads
Genesis 3:22 and “YHWH [He exists]” of “Elohiym [Powers]” said, though the human had existed…….
3:23 and “YHWH [He exists]” of “Elohiym [Powers]” sent him from the garden of “Eden [Pleasure]” to serve the ground which from there he was taken,
YHWH exists with Powers. We see that it is those Powers or Elohiym that creates the heavens and the earth. The Powers exist through ONE person who's name is YHWH. There is ONE person who is the ONE True God and that is the Father, He is the One True God because there is NO one else that has His Powers. As Gene said, God is able to give these Powers to messengers. Moses and Jesus are two examples of men given the use of God's Powers, and as well the angles are often given certain Powers of God to accomplish the will of God.
Jodi,Your translation taken from this Jeff A. Benner guy is incorrect. Read the Hebrew Interlinear. The “of” is not in there. Stop adding to Scripture.
TC27
Quote (kerwin @ July 31 2009,21:42) If you wish to get somewhat more informed to check out what wikipedia states here about the word Elohim instead of embracing outdated notions that did not take into effect the context of word use. If you do not want to do the research then I see no reason to discuss it.
Kerwin,If all you do is research through Wikipedia then you prove your own ignorance of what is reliable information. A Hebrew Interlinear Bible is more substantial than Wikipedia. Sorry.
TC27
TrinitarianCalvinist27 wrote:
Quote If all you do is research through Wikipedia then you prove your own ignorance of what is reliable information. A Hebrew Interlinear Bible is more substantial than Wikipedia. Sorry.
That sounds like you prefer to remain ignorant and are cherry pick one tertiary source over another. I use Wikipedia because I have access to it and it is a summary of the research on the subject. If some of its information is in error then that can be revealed by testing it against other sources.
I have little patience for what appears to be arrogance and see no reason to deal with Pharisees who enjoy their own righteousness and thus refuse to pursue God’s.
You would appear more humble if you actually presented evidence and appears to consider that evidence that contradicts your point of view.
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 01 2009,10:21) TrinitarianCalvinist27 wrote: Quote If all you do is research through Wikipedia then you prove your own ignorance of what is reliable information. A Hebrew Interlinear Bible is more substantial than Wikipedia. Sorry.
That sounds like you prefer to remain ignorant and are cherry pick one tertiary source over another. I use Wikipedia because I have access to it and it is a summary of the research on the subject. If some of its information is in error then that can be revealed by testing it against other sources.
I have little patience for what appears to be arrogance and see no reason to deal with Pharisees who enjoy their own righteousness and thus refuse to pursue God’s.
You would appear more humble if you actually presented evidence and appears to consider that evidence that contradicts your point of view.
Kerwin,Apparently you have not read my other posts in other threads. Until you actually know how I debate you might want to stay clear of accusations.
TC27
Gene wrote:
Quote Kerwin………What makes you think we become more informed by going to Wikipedia, It only states what other believe and say about things , doesn't mean they are right. Jeff Benner's Book on the Mechanical translation of Genesis is one of the Best explained Hebrew text on how the ancient Hebrews understood the text , i believe there is in existence, and it fit all the rest of Bible texts also using the word Elohim or GOD. IMO
I have done research and I am fairly sure you are misunderstanding Jeff Benner since it is not “Elohim” that means power according to the Wikipedia section I asked you to read but “El”. According to the theory you seemed to be trying to use the plural construct “powers” means “He is the Power (singular) over powers (plural)”, In all it is a fairly vague statement that I believe can be applied to anyone who is a power over powers such as a high king otherwise known as king of kings.
This form of speaking is used with other Hebrew words such as “Ba'alim” which is rendered “He is lord (singular) even over any of those things that he owns that are lordly (plural).” Once again my source was in the section of the wikipedia page I linked to.
Instead of finding something you like and running with it you should test it to make sure you are correct.
TrinitarianCalvinist27 wrote:
Quote Apparently you have not read my other posts in other threads. Until you actually know how I debate you might want to stay clear of accusations
You are correct that I have not read the other posts. I believe I need to make it clear that I was only commenting on the arrogance that appeared present in the single post I was responding to.
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 01 2009,17:42) If you wish to get somewhat more informed to check out what wikipedia states here about the word Elohim instead of embracing outdated notions that did not take into effect the context of word use. If you do not want to do the research then I see no reason to discuss it.
Hey Kerwin follow your link now and scroll back to the top of the page.Quote (Christian Biker @ Aug. 02 2009,02:55) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 01 2009,17:42) If you wish to get somewhat more informed to check out what wikipedia states here about the word Elohim instead of embracing outdated notions that did not take into effect the context of word use. If you do not want to do the research then I see no reason to discuss it.
Hey Kerwin follow your link now and scroll back to the top of the page.
I am unsure of your point. Are you pointing out that the entry is about the names of God in Judaism? If so then isn't Christianity the continuation of the true Hebrew faith?Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 02 2009,10:23) Quote (Christian Biker @ Aug. 02 2009,02:55) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 01 2009,17:42) If you wish to get somewhat more informed to check out what wikipedia states here about the word Elohim instead of embracing outdated notions that did not take into effect the context of word use. If you do not want to do the research then I see no reason to discuss it.
Hey Kerwin follow your link now and scroll back to the top of the page.
I am unsure of your point. Are you pointing out that the entry is about the names of God in Judaism? If so then isn't Christianity the continuation of the true Hebrew faith?
Actually I was pointing out that anyone can edit wicipedia but my edit was edited. Also anyone can create a page there. And most colleges these days will not accept wicipedia as a reliable source on term papers. So I’m not saying your source is false just that it is not considered a credible source.
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