Election

[sscott]

It's been a while since I posted and thought I would bring up the topic of election. I know the Calvinist/Armenian debate consist of many different points, including election. I would like to steer clear of the other differences and get each persons understand of Election.

Is election based on God's foreseeing some future repentance/belief of a person or is it based solely on God choice of an individual without some knowledge of future events?

I will tell you that I personally have always held to the belief that God looks through the corridor of time and sees a mans future “faith” and elects him to salvation. But as I think this through that does not seem like it would really be election. In that instance it would not be God electing us but would be us choosing God and then God electing us …which really seems like no election at all. And…my belief in how election works doesn't seem like it's compatible with Ephesians chapter one.

So…what are your thoughts?

[Not3in1]

Quote (sscott @ May 30 2007,17:42)

I will tell you that I personally have always held to the belief that God looks through the corridor of time and sees a mans future “faith” and elects him to salvation.

This is an interesting topic and I'll be sure to follow it. I'm not sure how I feel on this. I'm not really sure what it all means? But I like what you have to say about God looking ahead and seeing our faith….I like that a lot.

[seekingtruth]

I believe all men are foreordained to the adoption of sons in that Christ died for all men. I believe that when Paul was writing Ephesians he was speaking in general terms and by His grace salvation is open to all and it is God's perfect plan, but it takes faith to obtain what has already been done for us.

My opinion – Wm

[sscott]

Quote (seekingtruth @ May 30 2007,23:15)

Quote

I believe all men are foreordained to the adoption of sons in that Christ died for all men.

What scriptures do you gather this from? Thanks.

Also, anyone else have thoughts on this?

[seekingtruth]

Ephesians 1:5 “foreordained to the adoption of sons”

2 Corinthians 5:15 “And that he died for all”

[942767]

Hi sscott:

Just thought that I'd paste the following scripture relative to your question:

2 Peter 1      
1:1
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:  
1:2
Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,  
1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:  
1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.  
1:5
And * * beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;  
1:6
And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;  
1:7
And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.  
1:8
For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.  
1:9
But he that lacketh * these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten * that he was purged from his old sins.  
1:10
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall * never fall *:

God Bless

[sscott]

A Scriptures to think on:

Rev 17:8
8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

[NickHassan]

Hi sscott,
Will that be because they will be the only ones left on earth?

[sscott]

no

[NickHassan]

Hi sscott,
Will the others not marvel because they were expecting it?

[sscott]

the others will not marvel because they were believers. that passage seems to imply that those people were not written in the lambs book of life from the foundation of the world.

[lamontre]

Election is best defined here (I believe someone already quoted it);
1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

As regards Israel……

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

And Gentiles….

1Th 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

This is an interesting verse;
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

To make ones calling and election sure (for oneself), is to observe certain “fruits” in ones life.

Namely;
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

[sscott]

I've read some of Spurgeons writing on this subject. Here is what he says regarding “God forseeing faith” in his article on Election.

“But,” others say, “God elected them on the foresight of their faith.” Now, God gives faith therefore He could not have elected them on account of faith, which He foresaw. If there were twenty beggars in the street, and I determine to give one of them a dollar, will anyone say that I determined to give that one a dollar, that I elected him to have the dollar, because I foresaw that he would have it? That would be talking nonsense. Likewise, to say that God elected men because He foresaw they would have faith, would be too absurd for us to listen to for a moment. Faith is the gift of God.

http://www.biblebb.com/files/spurgeon/elect.htm

[charity]

Hi sscott
Nice to see you

What do you think of Enoch?

XLVIII. The Fount of Righteousness: the Son of Man -the Stay of the Righteous: Judgement of the Kings and the Mighty.
48

1
And in that place I saw the fountain of righteousness
Which was inexhaustible:
And around it were many fountains of wisdom:
And all the thirsty drank of them,
And were filled with wisdom,
And their dwellings were with the righteous and holy and elect.

2
And at that hour that Son of Man was named
In the presence of the Lord of Spirits,
And his name before the Head of Days.

3
Yea, before the sun and the signs were created,
Before the stars of the heaven were made,
His name was named before the Lord of Spirits.

4
He shall be a staff to the righteous whereon to stay themselves and not fall,
And he shall be the light of the Gentiles,
And the hope of those who are troubled of heart.

5
All who dwell on earth shall fall down and worship before him,
And will praise and bless and celebrate with song the Lord of Spirits.

6
And for this reason hath he been chosen and hidden before Him,
Before the creation of the world and for evermore.

7
And the wisdom of the Lord of Spirits hath revealed him to the holy and righteous;
For he hath preserved the lot of the righteous,
Because they have hated and despised this world of unrighteousness,
And have hated all its works and ways in the name of the Lord of Spirits:
For in his name they are saved,
And according to his good pleasure hath it been in regard to their life.

8
In these days downcast in countenance shall the kings of the earth have become,
And the strong who possess the land because of the works of their hands,
For on the day of their anguish and affliction they shall not (be able to) save themselves.

9
And I will give them over into the hands of Mine elect:
As straw in the fire so shall they burn before the face of the holy:
As lead in the water shall they sink before the face of the righteous,
And no trace of them shall any more be found.

10
And on the day of their affliction there shall be rest on the earth,
And before them they shall fall and not rise again:
And there shall be no one to take them with his hands and raise them:
For they have denied the Lord of Spirits and His Anointed.
The name of the Lord of Spirits be blessed.

[sscott]

Wow…that's really interesting. I've never read that before. It seems to line up with many scriptures that speak of election though. Can you send me the link to read it online?

[NickHassan]

Hi sscott,
Enoch is on this site accessible through the writings section on the front page.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Here is a difference in translations I find interesting

Ps 139
NASB
'16Your eyes have seen my unformed substance;
And in Your book were all written
The days that were ordained for me,
When as yet there was not one of them.

KJV
16Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

Days or members?

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Who are the elect?
They are spoken of in Paul's letters to the saints
They are not ALL as universalism would hopefully believe.

Rom8
32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 24 2007,10:23)

Hi, Here is a difference in translations I find interesting Ps 139 NASB '16Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them. KJV 16Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. Days or members?

Nick….> thats is a saying regarding Jesus Christ. Before He came into existence. And i believe the NASB is saying it right. Jesus was foreordained and written about in scripture before He was ever born.

IMO……….gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick……”it is written in the volumes of the (books) concerning Me , I Come to do they WILL “O” God.

[Author]

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