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Many Trinitarians use the same verses to support their view.
It seems to me in my experience, besides their interpretation of John 1:1, there are other verses they use often, that have doubts as to their authenticity.Here are a few of the most common:
1 John 5:7-8 (King James Version)
(NOTE: The Comma is in bold)
5:7 “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.”The resulting passage is an explicit reference to the Trinity of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
It does not appear in the older Greek manuscripts, nor in the passage as quoted by many of the early Church Fathers. The words apparently crept into the Latin text of the New Testament during the Middle Ages,Revelation 1:11 (King James Version)
“I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last” found in the King James Bible and a few others, is NOT found in some of the oldest Greek manuscripts, such as the Alexandrine, Sinaitic, and Codex Ephraemi rescriptus. Most modern versions of the Bible don’t include the phrase “I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last” in Revelation 1:11.Matthew 28:19 (English-NIV)
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,Encyclopedia Britannia, the 11th edition vol 3, page 365-366
“The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son and Holy Ghost by the Catholic church in the second century.Encyclopedia Britannia, vol 3, page 82
“Everywhere in the oldest sources it states that baptism took place in the name of Jesus Christ.”Canney Encyclopedia of Religion, page 53
The early church baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus until the second century.Hastings Encyclopedia of Religion, Volume2
Christian baptism was administered using the words, “in the name of Jesus”. page 377.
The use of the trinitarian formula of any sort was not suggested in the early Church's history. page 378
“Go ye therefore and teach all nations, in my name” … the latter form being the more frequent.page 380.
Baptism was always in the name of Jesus until time of Justin Martyr, when the triune formula was used. page 389.Catholic Encyclopedia, vol 2, page 377
Catholics acknowledge that baptism in Jesus' name was changed by the Catholic church.Schaff-Herzog Religious Encyclopedia, Volume 1, page 435
The New Testament knows only the baptism in the name of Jesus.Hastings Dictionary of Bible, page 88
It must be acknowledged that the three fold name of Matthew 28:19 does not appear to have been used by the primitive church, but rather in the name of Jesus, Jesus Christ, or Lord Jesus.The Canney Encyclopedia of Religion, page 53 states
The early Church always baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus until the developement of the trinity
doctrine in the 2nd Century.Perhaps we can talk about how these verses ended up in some translations or any other information that is helpful in understanding their origins.
This topic is also dedicated to other possible verses that have crept into the bible that have Trinitarian connotations.
Hi t8,
Great thread! While the first two you mention are no longer included in most newer versions of the Bible (which is a strong statement in and of itself), the third, Matt 28:19 still is. It will be interesting to see what happens as older and older mss are unearthed……..were those words there in the 1st and 2nd century Greek mss? I'll be anxious to find out.
Can I add some of the more subtle ways the trinitarian sponsored translations fudge the words to support the trinity?
John 1:18,
John 1:18 NWT
No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.The Greek says “monogenes theos”, which means “only begotten god”, but here are some other translations designed to support a trinity.
NET
No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.NIV
No-one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.NLT
No one has ever seen God. But his only Son, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart; he has told us about him.MSG
No one has ever seen God, not so much as a glimpse. This one-of-a-kind God-Expression, who exists at the very heart of the Father, has made him plain as day.NRSV
No one has ever seen God. It is God the only Son, who is close to the Father’s heart, who has made him known.Contemporary English Version
No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is truly God and is closest to the Father, has shown us what God is like.English Standard Version
No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.I find it both amusing and disconcerting that the trinitarians go to such extreme, and sometimes utterly ridiculous lengths to butcher scripture just to support their flawed man-made doctrine.
peace and love,
mikeOne more: Colossians 1:15 says,
NASB
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.The Greek word “pas”, which is translated as “all” is in the genetive form. That form in the Greek indicates that in English, we must add the word “of” in front of it.
But more and more translations are opting for the word “over” instead, just to avoid the possibility that someone might correctly assume that Jesus is a part OF the creation of God. Here are some of them:
NET
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation,NIV
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.NLT
Christ is the visible image of the invisible God. He existed before God made anything at all and is supreme over all creation.NKJV
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.This last one is interesting because the original KJV had the word “of”. Why did they change it to “over”?
mike
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