- This topic has 167 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 11 months ago by
.
- Posts
“the Word BECAME flesh.” John 1:14
Not part flesh and part God,
not merely clothed with flesh, but became or now was flesh.
Likewise the apostle Paul testifies that “God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law.” If he had been part God and part human it could not have been said that he had been “made lower than the angels.” And the apostle Peter states that “Christ also died for sins once for all, . . . being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.”—John 1:14; Gal. 4:4; Heb. 2:9; 1 Pet. 3:18.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 25 2006,18:21) Quote Rather then continue in pointless debate on subjects of Greek language, I prefer to talk about the functionality of the Doctrine. Again I ask you what is the functionality of the Trinity, Dual nature of Christ or the interpretation of John 1 to be Christ. In what way do these concepts draw me cloaer to Christ or make it possible for me to be like Him? M42
How can you draw closer to someone if you dont know who they are. If you are introduced to a dog then your relationship with that dog would not at all be on a human level!
My point exactly. If Jesus is anything other then human our relationship with Him cannot be on a human level. How we relate to him as our perfect human pattern is most specifically effected. Other features of relationship are also effected in a negative way. Without Jesus' full humanity we have no one who understands our infirmaties.m42 You say…
Quote Rather then continue in pointless debate on subjects of Greek language, I prefer to talk about the functionality of the Doctrine. Again I ask you what is the functionality of the Trinity, Dual nature of Christ or the interpretation of John 1 to be Christ. In what way do these concepts draw me cloaer to Christ or make it possible for me to be like Him? I say…
Quote M42 How can you draw closer to someone if you dont know who they are. If you are introduced to a dog then your relationship with that dog would not at all be on a human level!
You say…
Quote My point exactly. If Jesus is anything other then human our relationship with Him cannot be on a human level. How we relate to him as our perfect human pattern is most specifically effected. Other features of relationship are also effected in a negative way. Without Jesus' full humanity we have no one who understands our infirmaties. m42
So based on this then Jesus nor any human could relate to God who is completely other than human….?So there you have it, Jesus had to be not only human but also diety to bridge the gap between God and man.
I Cor. 2:11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.How do you explain these scriptures in relation to Jn 1:1:-3
and Genisis 1:1.I Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
[2] (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that **eternal life**, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)The word for Eternal is aionios, which means
1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2) without beginning
3) without end, never to cease, everlasting
I submit to you that only one equally substantive in nature to God could be that Eternal Life.
Here you see the joining of two, the Word, that Eternal Life, and the Flesh, the Body of Jesus the Man concieved by God through the Holy Spirit, born of a virgin.
Compare with these scriptures:
Heb 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the **eternal Spirit** offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?God and man.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
God and man.
II Cor 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.God and man.
I Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and **eternal life**.
Sound familiar.
YLt Reads it..and we have known that the Son of God is come, and has given us a mind, that we may know Him who is true, and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ; this one is the true God and the life age-during!
God in man.
Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.Who purchased with his own blood?
God and man.
Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[4] In him was life;(that Eternal Life) and the life was the light of men.
14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.God and Man
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
[10] Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.God and man.
M42
The evidence is not all here, but this should be enough to destroy the concept that Jesus was just a man like you and I. This was the whole reason he came to reconcile us back to God. How could he do that if he was not God in the flesh.There was only one that could be our Savior…God.
Hsa 13:4
Yet I [am] the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for [there is] no saviour beside me.Unitarian view calls him Jesus the man.
The Trinitarian view calls him Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Three and yet one.
Hi w,
You say
“I submit to you that only one equally substantive in nature to God could be that Eternal Life.”That is one possible explanation.
But it is not written.But that thought is not derived from divine wisdom but human wisdom.
What is written is that the Son IS life.
ETERNAL LIFE IS IN the Son.Quote Hi w,
You say
“I submit to you that only one equally substantive in nature to God could be that Eternal Life.”That is one possible explanation.
But it is not written.But that thought is not derived from divine wisdom but human wisdom.
What is written is that the Son IS life.
ETERNAL LIFE IS IN the Son.What is this but just a play on words NH.
Its Staring you right in the face and you refuse to look at it.
Nick Jesus said in Jn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and **the life**: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Jn 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and **the life**: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Of course Eternal life is in him, because he is the Eternal Life.
Why are you being contentious about the truth?
I John 1:1,2
NKJV
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life– 2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that **eternal life** which was with the Father and was manifested to us—NLT
The one who existed from the beginning* is the one we have heard and seen. We saw him with our own eyes and touched him with our own hands. He is Jesus Christ, the Word of life. 2 This one who is life from God was shown to us, and we have seen him. And now we testify and announce to you that he is the one who is eternal life. He was with the Father, and then he was shown to us.NIV
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched–this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. 2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.ESV
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life—2the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to usNASB
What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life—
and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—RSV
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life–the life was made manifest, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life which was with the Father and was made manifest to us—DT
That which was from [the] beginning, that which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes; that which we contemplated, and our hands handled, concerning the word of life; (and the life has been manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and report to you the eternal life, which was with the Father, and has been manifested to us:)Websters
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen [it], and testify, and show to you that eternal life which was with the Father, and was manifested to us;)HNV
That which was from the beginning, that which we have heard, that which we have seen with our eyes, that which we saw, and our hands touched, concerning the Word of life(and the life was revealed, and we have seen, and testify, and declare to you the life, the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was revealed to us);
Hi W,
ETERNAL is not necessarily a retrospective term.
If it was… then when we are given eternal life,
we must have already have had it.Hi w,
You say
“Hsa 13:4
Yet I [am] the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for [there is] no saviour beside me.”1tim 1
” 1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;”
“15This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.”1Tim 2
” 3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;”
1Tim 3
” 10For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.11These things command and teach.”
2Tim 1
” 8Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
10But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel”
So do we need to be saved twice?
Do we need two saviours?
Nonsense.God saves through Christ our Saviour.
One God
One LordQuote Hi W,
ETERNAL is not necessarily a retrospective term.
If it was… then when we are given eternal life,
we must have already have had it.NH
The word for Eternal is aionios, which means
1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2) without beginning
3) without end, never to cease, everlasting
Do you accept that?
We know that by John Jesus is the Eternal life. Obviously we are not the Eternal life But the Gift of eternal life begins when we are born of the Spirit.
And so our life never ends.
He that liveth and believeth in me shall never die!
Hi W,
Number 166
Transliteration:
aionios {ahee-o'-nee-os}
Word Origin:
from 165
TDNT:
1:208,31
Part of Speech:
adjective
Usage in the KJV:
eternal 42, everlasting 25, the world began 5550 2, since the world began 5550 1, for ever 1Total: 71
Definition:
without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
without beginning
without end, never to cease, everlasting For Synonyms see entry 5801Do you have eternal life?
1Jn 5
“13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”So has this life always been in you and had no beginning in you?
Quote So do we need to be saved twice?
Do we need two saviours?
Nonsense.NH
Exactly my point, why would God need another Saviour.
So according to Hsa 13:4
Yet I [am] the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for [there is] no saviour beside me.”and
1tim 1
” 1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;”Do you have two Saviors?
Hi W,
Trinity “logic” looks at both God and His subjected Son, the Lord being called SAVIOUR and then says
“AH HA”
Jesus must be God!!
But that also he must be his own father??Quote Hi W,
Number 166
Transliteration:
aionios {ahee-o'-nee-os}
Word Origin:
from 165
TDNT:
1:208,31
Part of Speech:
adjective
Usage in the KJV:
eternal 42, everlasting 25, the world began 5550 2, since the world began 5550 1, for ever 1Total: 71
Definition:
without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
without beginning
without end, never to cease, everlasting For Synonyms see entry 5801Do you have eternal life?
1Jn 5
“13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.”So has this life always been in you and had no beginning in you?
NH
Cant have it both ways. So if we hold to your interpretation of how Eternal life applies to us then we could not live forever because we havnt always existed.
Jn 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Same word NH.
Quote Hi W,
Trinity “logic” looks at both God and His subjected Son, the Lord being called SAVIOUR and then says
“AH HA”
Jesus must be God!!
But that also he must be his own father??NH
You didnt answer the question!NH
Exactly my point, why would God need another Saviour.
So according to Hsa 13:4
Yet I [am] the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for [there is] no saviour beside me.”and
1tim 1
” 1Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;”Do you have two Saviors?
Hi w,
Joseph was made LORD under Pharaoh
Gen 40
“38And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find such a one as this is, a man in whom the Spirit of God is?39And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, Forasmuch as God hath shewed thee all this, there is none so discreet and wise as thou art:
40Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou.
41And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, See, I have set thee over all the land of Egypt.
42And Pharaoh took off his ring from his hand, and put it upon Joseph's hand, and arrayed him in vestures of fine linen, and put a gold chain about his neck;
43And he made him to ride in the second chariot which he had; and they cried before him, Bow the knee: and he made him ruler over all the land of Egypt.
44And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, I am Pharaoh, and without thee shall no man lift up his hand or foot in all the land of Egypt.
45And Pharaoh called Joseph's name Zaphnathpaaneah; and he gave him to wife Asenath the daughter of Potipherah priest of On. And Joseph went out over all the land of Egypt.
46And Joseph was thirty years old when he stood before Pharaoh king of Egypt. And Joseph went out from the presence of Pharaoh, and went throughout all the land of Egypt.”
but he was never Pharaoh.
Quote Trinity “logic” looks at both God and His subjected Son, the Lord being called SAVIOUR and then says
“AH HA”
Jesus must be God!!
But that also he must be his own father??NH
One with the Father. God=Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, these three are One!
Hi w,
Jn 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.We have not always existed, so in eternity for us, is from the moment of our rebirth.
The KJV is trinity biased and so the concordance drawn from it must be understood in this light.
Hi w,
You say
“One with the Father. God=Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, these three are One!”
These are your words, ashes in the mouth compared with the beauty of scripture.Quote Hi w,
Joseph was made LORD under Pharaoh
Gen 40
“38And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find such a one as this is, a man in whom the Spirit of God is?39And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, Forasmuch as God hath shewed thee all this, there is none so discreet and wise as thou art:
40Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou.
41And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, See, I have set thee over all the land of Egypt.
42And Pharaoh took off his ring from his hand, and put it upon Joseph's hand, and arrayed him in vestures of fine linen, and put a gold chain about his neck;
43And he made him to ride in the second chariot which he had; and they cried before him, Bow the knee: and he made him ruler over all the land of Egypt.
44And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, I am Pharaoh, and without thee shall no man lift up his hand or foot in all the land of Egypt.
45And Pharaoh called Joseph's name Zaphnathpaaneah; and he gave him to wife Asenath the daughter of Potipherah priest of On. And Joseph went out over all the land of Egypt.
46And Joseph was thirty years old when he stood before Pharaoh king of Egypt. And Joseph went out from the presence of Pharaoh, and went throughout all the land of Egypt.”
but he was never Pharaoh.
NH More rabbit trails.
Joseph didnt come out of the Bosum of Pharoah either.
Agency again NH.
Ill pray for you. You can have the last word Im tired of going in circles.:(
Well folks, I have seen as much as I need to see. I wanted to test reactions of various people. Thank you for your cooperation.
Take Care and God BlessHi m42,
We test doctrines, not people.
We test all things.
We hope you are open enough to walk with us for longer.But those who have been teachers for thirty years often find it hard to reappraise their beliefs even though we must do so to make sure we continue please the Master in whose name we work.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
