Does the father have a penis?

[kerwin]

Nick Hassan wrote:

Quote

Do you have anything in scripture to support this idea?

He was tempted even as we are but never sinned is pretty conclusive evidence all by itself.

Nick Hassan wrote:

Quote

He knew Who his Father was at the age of 12 but was not empowered till the Jordan though God was with him.

I believe you concluded God is his Father through the Spirit so if God was his Father by age 12 then Jesus had the Spirit by age 12.

And the third proof is this passage from John.

John 1:3-5(NIV) reads:

Quote

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

Earlier you said the light was the Holy Spirit.  Have you changed your mind?

[942767]

Quote (kerwin @ April 25 2009,10:08)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 25 2009,02:38) Hi , For us to become sons of God we must be reborn from above. We follow the Son of God who was reborn at the Jordan. So you believe Jesus was reborn from above at the Jordon River? I disagree! James 1:17(NIV) reads: Quote Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. I believe he was reborn from above at conception which is why even though he was tempted by evil just as we are he never sinned.

Hi Kerwin:

I know that your dialog is with Nick, but if I may inject my understanding here for your consideration:

You say:

Quote

I believe he was reborn from above at conception which is why even though he was tempted by evil just as we are he never sinned.

He was born from above at conception, but not born of the Spirit. He was born a living soul in innocence. Just as Adam was a living soul before his fall.

From the time he was born of into the world until he was born again from the dead. He was under the Law of Moses. He received the Spirit of God at the Jordan much like a prophet would be annointed in his ministry, but of course, Jesus was sinless.

Perhaps this scripture will help:

Quote

1Jo 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[KangarooJack]

Quote (kerwin @ April 25 2009,06:14)

The Thinker wrote: Quote I have noticed how brothers Nick, Kerwin and gollumandi have ignored Hebrews 1:1-5 which says that Jesus INHERITED the name “begotten” or “firstborn.” I reluctantly include brother Gene too for I love him more than all others. You are mistaken I addressed Hebrews here and here to Nick Hassan but he was unwilling to discuss the issue after first asking a question about it in this post. Which definition of inherit do you think is appropriate? FreeDictionary.com based on The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2003. reads: Quote in·her·it v. in·her·it·ed, in·her·it·ing, in·her·its v.tr. 1. a. To receive (property or a title, for example) from an ancestor by legal succession or will.    b. To receive by bequest or as a legacy. 2. To receive or take over from a predecessor: The new administration inherited the economic problems of the last four years. 3. Biology To receive (a characteristic) from one's parents by genetic transmission. 4. To gain (something) as one's right or portion.v.intr. To hold or take possession of an inheritance. I would go for the third one but think many would assume one of the others since that is how the word “inherit” is often used by our culture.

Kerwin,
None of the definitions you offer address the REAL issue. The REAL issue is that Jesus inherited a name and that He existed prior to the name He received. Therefore, the term “Son” has nothing to do with Jesus' supposed beginning. It's all about His supremacy,

Quote

…WHEN he had purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become so much better than the angels, as He has BY INHERITANCE acquired a more excellent NAME than they. For to which of the angels did he ever say, “You are My Son, Today I have begotten you”

This passage clearly states that Jesus INHERITED the name “begotten Son” AFTER He had purged our sins: AFTER He was resurrected: and UPON His exaltation to God's right hand. It clearly says that His name means that He is SUPREME.

The name “begotten Son” in reference to Jesus has nothing to do with His supposed origin. I'm sorry to say that your definitions do not address this specific fact.

The name “Son” as it refers to Jesus is about supremacy. Origin is beside the point.

thinker

[Is 1:18]

Interesting point Thinker. I guess Romans 1:4 has some relevance here as well:

Romans 1:1-3 (NASB)
1Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, 4who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord,

What are your thoughts?

[Lightenup]

Hi Is,
He was declared the son “with power.” He always was the son but now He was given authority so now He was given power. That is how I understand that anyway. Different ways of looking at the same thing again. K

[Lightenup]

Quote (thethinker @ April 24 2009,19:38)

Quote (kerwin @ April 25 2009,06:14) The Thinker wrote: Quote I have noticed how brothers Nick, Kerwin and gollumandi have ignored Hebrews 1:1-5 which says that Jesus INHERITED the name “begotten” or “firstborn.” I reluctantly include brother Gene too for I love him more than all others. You are mistaken I addressed Hebrews here and here to Nick Hassan but he was unwilling to discuss the issue after first asking a question about it in this post. Which definition of inherit do you think is appropriate? FreeDictionary.com based on The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2003. reads: Quote in·her·it v. in·her·it·ed, in·her·it·ing, in·her·its v.tr. 1. a. To receive (property or a title, for example) from an ancestor by legal succession or will.    b. To receive by bequest or as a legacy. 2. To receive or take over from a predecessor: The new administration inherited the economic problems of the last four years. 3. Biology To receive (a characteristic) from one's parents by genetic transmission. 4. To gain (something) as one's right or portion.v.intr. To hold or take possession of an inheritance. I would go for the third one but think many would assume one of the others since that is how the word “inherit” is often used by our culture. Kerwin, None of the definitions you offer address the REAL issue. The REAL issue is that Jesus inherited a name and that He existed prior to the name He received. Therefore, the term “Son” has nothing to do with Jesus' supposed beginning. It's all about His supremacy, Quote …WHEN he had purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become so much better than the angels, as He has BY INHERITANCE acquired a more excellent NAME than they. For to which of the angels did he ever say, “You are My Son, Today I have begotten you” This passage clearly states that Jesus INHERITED the name “begotten Son” AFTER He had purged our sins: AFTER He was resurrected: and UPON His exaltation to God's right hand. It clearly says that His name means that He is SUPREME. The name “begotten Son” in reference to Jesus has nothing to do with His supposed origin. I'm sorry to say that your definitions do not address this specific fact. The name “Son” as it refers to Jesus is about supremacy. Origin is beside the point. thinker

Thinker,
Did you inherit your eye color? When did you receive it? You didn't have to wait to receive that inheritance did you…it came when you were conceived already programmed into your DNA just like you being a male which made you a son.
Think about it,
Kathi

[NickHassan]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 25 2009,11:44)

Interesting point Thinker. I guess Romans 1:4 has some relevance here as well: Romans 1:1-3 (NASB) 1Paul, a bond-servant of Christ Jesus, called as an apostle, set apart for the gospel of God, 2which He promised beforehand through His prophets in the holy Scriptures, 3concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of David according to the flesh, 4who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, according to the Spirit of holiness, Jesus Christ our Lord, What are your thoughts?

Hi Is 1.18,
The Son was shown clearly in the OT esp in ps2 and Prov30 so that scripture had to be shown to be fulfilled.

The raising from the dead showed him to be the great prophet spoken of by Peter in Acts and now Romans1 declares it proves he is the Son.

[GeneBalthrop]

To All………….1 Jo 3:1….Behold, what manner of Love the FATHER has bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of GOD. Therefore the world knows us not because it knew him not> 2.> Beloved, (NOW) are we the Sons of GOD, and it doth not yet appear what we Shall be: but we KNOW that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; because we shall see him as (or the same way) he is.

So what's the difference between Jesus and Us? (NOW). We will also inherited an more excellent Name then they, (the angles). “know you not that you shall judge angles”>.  WE must see Jesus (exactly in every why as ourselves),  we must not separate him from our exact likeness in anyway, as Trinitarians and Preexistences do, IMO

love and peace to you all and yours……………………….gene

[NickHassan]

Hi KW,
You offer as soem sort of evidence that Jesus was of a superior nature from other men.

“He was tempted even as we are but never sinned is pretty conclusive evidence all by itself.”

Do you think he could not sin all because he was essentially different?

Then whom can you follow??

[Lightenup]

Quote (Gene @ April 24 2009,23:09)

To All………….1 Jo 3:1….Behold, what manner of Love the FATHER has bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of GOD. Therefore the world knows us not because it knew him not> 2.> Beloved, (NOW) are we the Sons of GOD, and it doth not yet appear what we Shall be: but we KNOW that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; because we shall see him as (or the same way) he is. So what's the difference between Jesus and Us? (NOW). We will also inherited an more excellent Name then they, (the angles). “know you not that you shall judge angles”>.  WE must see Jesus (exactly in every why as ourselves),  we must not separate him from our exact likeness in anyway, as Trinitarians and Preexistences do, IMO love and peace to you all and yours……………………….gene

Hey Gene,
Do you think that the angels are called the sons of God? If they are, and we are why do you say that we inherit a more excellent name than they if we are called “sons of God?”

Job 38:4-7
4 “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding,
5 Who set its measurements? Since you know.
Or who stretched the line on it?
6 “On what were its bases sunk?
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the morning stars sang together
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
NASU

Blessings,
Kathi

[GeneBalthrop]

LU……I don't base it on that, I base it on this, What is man that thou are mindful of Him for you have made Him Lower the the angles for the tasting of death, but has crowned Him with Glory and Honor”, and again, “No you not that you shall Judge angles”. And again angles are not begotten they are made or created beings, but we are (begotten of GOD) as Jesus was, and we are told that we are JOINT heirs of Christ. The angles are not Joint Heirs of HIS, we are, And again until we come unto the full measure of Christ. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

[Lightenup]

Hi Gene,
Where does it say that we are begotten of God? I know that it says that Christ is the only begotten Son…how come it says He is the ONLY begotten son and you say we are begotten sons of God. We are adopted, not begotten as I understand it.

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Hi again Gene,
Here are a couple of verses that state that He is the ONLY begotten therefore we are not begotten of God.

John 1:14-15

14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
NASU

1 John 4:9-10
By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him. 10
NASU

Thanks,
Kathi

[kerwin]

To All,

Is it not written “The righteous will live by faith” and was not Jesus righteous?   Since it is true then we must conclude Jesus was righteous because of his faith just as he calls us to be.  Are we not told in scripture that the righteousness that is like God's is obtainable by living by the Spirit and in no other way.  As we know this is true then we know that Jesus lived righteously because he lived by the Spirit and he lived by the Spirit through faith as the firstborn of those that would live by the Spirit.  He is our teacher and it is through obeying his teachings that we too can live by the Spirit.

If Jesus is superior to us in any way then it is his superior faith that is the most important for without faith it is impossible to please God.  

Hebrews 11:16(NIV) reads:

Quote

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

[kerwin]

Quote (thethinker @ April 25 2009,06:38)

Quote (kerwin @ April 25 2009,06:14) The Thinker wrote: Quote I have noticed how brothers Nick, Kerwin and gollumandi have ignored Hebrews 1:1-5 which says that Jesus INHERITED the name “begotten” or “firstborn.” I reluctantly include brother Gene too for I love him more than all others. You are mistaken I addressed Hebrews here and here to Nick Hassan but he was unwilling to discuss the issue after first asking a question about it in this post. Which definition of inherit do you think is appropriate? FreeDictionary.com based on The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2003. reads: Quote in·her·it v. in·her·it·ed, in·her·it·ing, in·her·its v.tr. 1. a. To receive (property or a title, for example) from an ancestor by legal succession or will.    b. To receive by bequest or as a legacy. 2. To receive or take over from a predecessor: The new administration inherited the economic problems of the last four years. 3. Biology To receive (a characteristic) from one's parents by genetic transmission. 4. To gain (something) as one's right or portion.v.intr. To hold or take possession of an inheritance. I would go for the third one but think many would assume one of the others since that is how the word “inherit” is often used by our culture. Kerwin, None of the definitions you offer address the REAL issue. The REAL issue is that Jesus inherited a name and that He existed prior to the name He received. Therefore, the term “Son” has nothing to do with Jesus' supposed beginning. It's all about His supremacy, Quote …WHEN he had purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, having become so much better than the angels, as He has BY INHERITANCE acquired a more excellent NAME than they. For to which of the angels did he ever say, “You are My Son, Today I have begotten you” This passage clearly states that Jesus INHERITED the name “begotten Son” AFTER He had purged our sins: AFTER He was resurrected: and UPON His exaltation to God's right hand. It clearly says that His name means that He is SUPREME. The name “begotten Son” in reference to Jesus has nothing to do with His supposed origin. I'm sorry to say that your definitions do not address this specific fact. The name “Son” as it refers to Jesus is about supremacy. Origin is beside the point. thinker

I am not quite sure what you think “inherit” means?  Could you please try to clarify what your point on this matter.  Thank you.

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,

If we are not begotten of God through being united to Jesus we are only able to hope for mercy in the judgement.

[gollamudi]

Quote (kerwin @ April 24 2009,22:48)

Quote (gollamudi @ April 24 2009,17:31) You are right brother Kerwin, Even when I quoted two scriptures above, brother Nick says Bible does not agree with me. Then he has to answer which scripture is correct. I was interpreting Nick's answer and it seemed to be he was saying I needed to accept contradictions.   If he isn't saying that he should clarify his position. You are correct.

For brother Nick to clarify us how God begotten His son?

[NickHassan]

Hi GM,
God had many sons with Him before Jesus came in the flesh.
But none were said to be infilled with His Spirit.

I am beginning to wonder if the begettal spoken of in scripture is when Jesus was reborn of God's Spirit at the Jordan. It is the Spiritual sonship we can share with him and His God.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 25 2009,01:04)

Hi LU, If we are not begotten of God through being united to Jesus we are only able to hope for mercy in the judgement.

Hi Nick,
You are right Nick that we must be united with Jesus to be “begotten of God” but Jesus did not have to be united with Himself to be “begotten of God” so He was the only one that was begotten of God in a unique way…I suggest the reproductive way before time. He is never considered to be adopted…we are.
Kathi

[Cindy]

Hi! When I read some of the post made here, I wonder if some of you understand that Jesus was not any ordinary man. He was God's only begotten Son, like Kathi said. Even tho the Angels and we are considered Brothers and Sisters in Christ, we are not equal with Christ. He sits on the right hand of our Father God, and He said in
Hebrew 1:8 ” Your Throne O God is forever and ever; etc.
The Father calls His Son God. Jesus is second in line, to place Him.
Peace and Love Irene

[Author]

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