Does jesus have a body?

[terraricca]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 06 2011,09:12)

Irene said: Quote Hi!  The reason why I believe that Jesus rose from the dead in a Spiritual body is because of these Scripture in 1Cr 15:42   So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:   1Cr 15:43   It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:   1Cr 15:44   It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.   1Cr 15:45   And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit. Irene, You are correct that Jesus has His spiritual body now. But He rose from the dead in His fleshly body. He appeared to His disciples in it and He ate with them. He still had the holes in His hands and His side. This proves that He came out of the tomb in His fleshly body. The resurrection of Jesus had to be in TWO stages because He had to remain on earth for the 40 days. He arose from the dead in His natural body and after He was done with it He cast it off and was glorified. It was at that time that He became a “life giving SPIRIT.” The resurrection of the righteous saints in ad70 was in ONE stage. They came out of sheol and went directly to heaven in their spiritual bodies. So the resurrection is past. From ad70 and onward God's saints are 'caught up' in their spiritual bodies to meet the Lord. Their physical bodies are recycled by the bugs and the birds. KJ

KJ

thats not true,John was still alive on earth,

now you will say ;well only part of it ;?

so back step ?

Pierre

[KangarooJack]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 06 2011,02:31)

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 05 2011,10:12) It was at that time that He became a “life giving SPIRIT.” Jack What does this mean, that he wasn't a “Life giving Spirit” until he ascended? What was he when he went to Sheol and conquered death? WJ

Keith,

Jesus could not become a quickening spirit until he Himself was quickened.

Quote

[Some say that ] the last Adam, therefore, was made a quickening spirit, by the union of the constitution of his person. Others say that it was at his resurrection; and others at his ascension. As to the former opinion, it is enough to say, that no change took place at his resurrection in the nature of Christ's body. It was necessary in order to its satisfactory identification that it should remain as it was before. He therefore not only called upon his disciples to handle his risen body to satisfy themselves of its identity by probing the wounds in his hands and feet, but he also repeatedlly ate before them. He did not assume his PERMANENT pneumatic state until his ascension. Charles hodge, 1 & 2 Corinthians, page 351

We know that Jesus could not have been made a life giving spirit during the 40 days on earth after His resurrection because He still had His mortal body for the 40 days until His ascension.

Jesus said, “As the Father raises the dead AND quickens them, even so the Son quickens whom He will.”

Lazarus was raised from the tomb but he was NOT quickened. He was still mortal and died again. Jesus rose from the tomb like Lazarus and remained on earth for the 40 days. He was quickened and made immortal when He went to heaven. It was at this time He became a quickening spirit.

When the old testament saints were raised from sheol in ad70 they went straight to heaven. Unlike Jesus they were raised and quickened in the same moment. Sheol does not exist today. When Jesus cleaned out sheol of all His saints in ad70 it was cast into the lake of fire. From that point on His saints go straight to heaven in their heavenly body (2 Cor. 4:16-5:5). Their fleshly bodies are recycled.

Jack

[terraricca]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 07 2011,02:44)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 06 2011,02:31) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 05 2011,10:12) It was at that time that He became a “life giving SPIRIT.” Jack What does this mean, that he wasn't a “Life giving Spirit” until he ascended? What was he when he went to Sheol and conquered death? WJ Keith, Jesus could not become a quickening spirit until he Himself was quickened. Quote [Some say that ] the last Adam, therefore, was made a quickening spirit, by the union of the constitution of his person. Others say that it was at his resurrection; and others at his ascension. As to the former opinion, it is enough to say, that no change took place at his resurrection in the nature of Christ's body. It was necessary in order to its satisfactory identification that it should remain as it was before. He therefore not only called upon his disciples to handle his risen body to satisfy themselves of its identity by probing the wounds in his hands and feet, but he also repeatedlly ate before them. He did not assume his PERMANENT pneumatic state until his ascension. Charles hodge, 1 & 2 Corinthians, page 351 We know that Jesus could not have been made a life giving spirit during the 40 days on earth after His resurrection because He still had His mortal body for the 40 days until His ascension. Jesus said, “As the Father raises the dead AND quickens them, even so the Son quickens whom He will.” Lazarus was raised from the tomb but he was NOT quickened. He was still mortal and died again. Jesus rose from the tomb like Lazarus and remained on earth for the 40 days. He was quickened and made immortal when He went to heaven. It was at this time He became a quickening spirit. When the old testament saints were raised from sheol in ad70 they went straight to heaven. Unlike Jesus they were raised and quickened in the same moment. Sheol does not exist today. When Jesus cleaned out sheol of all His saints in ad70 it was cast into the lake of fire. From that point on His saints go straight to heaven in their heavenly body (2 Cor. 4:16-5:5). Their fleshly bodies are recycled. Jack

KJ

could you explain;Jn 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’

Lk 24:39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see;

did Christ went to his father in between those two meetings ??

this seems not to line up with your comment,is it??

Pierre

[KangarooJack]

Pierre said:

Quote

KJ could you explain;Jn 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ Lk 24:39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; did Christ went to his father in between those two meetings ?? this seems not to line up with your comment,is it??

Pierre,

Mary Magdalene was clinging to Jesus because she thought that He was going to depart to the Father right then and there. But Jesus said, “Do not cling to me for I am not returning to the Father.” Then He says, “Go and tell my brothers that I am (that is, will be) returning to the Father.” The Greek verb is the tendential present and functions as a future verb.

Jesus did not go to the Father after saying that. He met Mary Magdalene again who was with the other Mary (Matthew 28:1-9).

Jesus could never have ascended to the Father in His mortal body. God dwells in “unapproachable light.” Christ's mortal body would have been disintegrated on the spot. Look what happened to Paul when the glorified Christ appeared to him. He was blinded by the light of Christ's glory. Just imagine what would have happened to Paul if Christ had revealed Himself fully.

KJ

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 06 2011,10:22)

Paul said that He is now the “immortal King of kings and Lord of lords whom no eye has seen nor can see” (1 Timothy 6:16).

I charge you 14 to keep this command without spot or blame until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 which God will bring about in his own time—God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

 Jack, how is this about Jesus?  

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 06 2011,19:44)

When Jesus cleaned out sheol of all His saints in ad70 it was cast into the lake of fire. From that point on His saints go straight to heaven in their heavenly body (2 Cor. 4:16-5:5). Their fleshly bodies are recycled.

And where do those who are not saints go?

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 06 2011,06:01)

Lev 21:11 He must not enter a place where there is a dead body. He must not make himself unclean, even for his father or mother,

Hi Pierre,

I understand your point by using this scripture, but we know that Jesus touched dead bodies during his ministry, and rasied them to life. Same with Elijah and Elisha.

So I don't think this is a proof scripture that Jesus couldn't have been raised in the same body he died in.

peace and love,
mike

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 07 2011,09:20)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 06 2011,06:01) Lev 21:11 He must not enter a place where there is a dead body. He must not make himself unclean, even for his father or mother, Hi Pierre, I understand your point by using this scripture, but we know that Jesus touched dead bodies during his ministry, and rasied them to life.  Same with Elijah and Elisha. So I don't think this is a proof scripture that Jesus couldn't have been raised in the same body he died in. peace and love, mike

Mike

were is that written that Jesus touched dead corps,

he never touched lazarus,and never enter the tomb

Pierre

[terraricca]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 07 2011,04:56)

Pierre said: Quote KJ could you explain;Jn 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ Lk 24:39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; did Christ went to his father in between those two meetings ?? this seems not to line up with your comment,is it?? Pierre, Mary Magdalene was clinging to Jesus because she thought that He was going to depart to the Father right then and there. But Jesus said, “Do not cling to me for I am not returning to the Father.” Then He says, “Go and tell my brothers that I am (that is, will be) returning to the Father.” The Greek verb is the tendential present and functions as a future verb. Jesus did not go to the Father after saying that. He met Mary Magdalene again who was with the other Mary (Matthew 28:1-9). Jesus could never have ascended to the Father in His mortal body. God dwells in “unapproachable light.” Christ's mortal body would have been disintegrated on the spot. Look what happened to Paul when the glorified Christ appeared to him. He was blinded by the light of Christ's glory. Just imagine what would have happened to Paul if Christ had revealed Himself fully. KJ

KJ

could you tell me what version of bible you are ussing ,because it is different that what is written in mine,

i use the NIV 1984.

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 07 2011,03:59)

Mike were is that written that Jesus touched dead corps,

Hi Pierre,

Luke 8 NIV
52 Meanwhile, all the people were wailing and mourning for her. “Stop wailing,” Jesus said. “She is not dead but asleep.”

53 They laughed at him, knowing that she was dead. 54 But he took her by the hand and said, “My child, get up!” 55 Her spirit returned, and at once she stood up. Then Jesus told them to give her something to eat.

mike

[thankful]

hi all.

what i want to know is,
if in psalm 17 Yahwey says he will show his form, if God is invisible spirit, invisible cant be seen…………..then the form would be Yahshua (which is yah saves……….or emmanuel God with us)………..but in psalm 17 it is yahwey who will show his form.

the reason im stuck on psalm 17 is because it was shown to me a while back after prayer about something. people here are saying God yahwey has body or form, but spirit is invisible.  

and im trying to understand this verse. who is it about?

1st timothy
But you, man of God, flee these things, and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, and gentleness. Fight the good fight of faith. Lay hold of the eternal life to which you were called, and you confessed the good confession in the sight of many witnesses. I command you before God, who gives life to all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate testified the good confession, that you keep the commandment without spot, blameless, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ; which in its own times he will show, who is the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and eternal power. Amen.

i havent read any of this thread much, but see that this verse has already been mentioned here.

[Baker]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 06 2011,19:44)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 06 2011,02:31) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 05 2011,10:12) It was at that time that He became a “life giving SPIRIT.” Jack What does this mean, that he wasn't a “Life giving Spirit” until he ascended? What was he when he went to Sheol and conquered death? WJ Keith, Jesus could not become a quickening spirit until he Himself was quickened. Quote [Some say that ] the last Adam, therefore, was made a quickening spirit, by the union of the constitution of his person. Others say that it was at his resurrection; and others at his ascension. As to the former opinion, it is enough to say, that no change took place at his resurrection in the nature of Christ's body. It was necessary in order to its satisfactory identification that it should remain as it was before. He therefore not only called upon his disciples to handle his risen body to satisfy themselves of its identity by probing the wounds in his hands and feet, but he also repeatedlly ate before them. He did not assume his PERMANENT pneumatic state until his ascension. Charles hodge, 1 & 2 Corinthians, page 351 We know that Jesus could not have been made a life giving spirit during the 40 days on earth after His resurrection because He still had His mortal body for the 40 days until His ascension. Jesus said, “As the Father raises the dead AND quickens them, even so the Son quickens whom He will.” Lazarus was raised from the tomb but he was NOT quickened. He was still mortal and died again. Jesus rose from the tomb like Lazarus and remained on earth for the 40 days. He was quickened and made immortal when He went to heaven. It was at this time He became a quickening spirit. When the old testament saints were raised from sheol in ad70 they went straight to heaven. Unlike Jesus they were raised and quickened in the same moment. Sheol does not exist today. When Jesus cleaned out sheol of all His saints in ad70 it was cast into the lake of fire. From that point on His saints go straight to heaven in their heavenly body (2 Cor. 4:16-5:5). Their fleshly bodies are recycled. Jack

I don't believe that there is an in between, after Jesus rose from the death.  Also the doors were shut when he appeared to the Apostles, they thought they had seen a Ghost….and Maria Magdalene did not recognize Jesus either.  Would you not think that they would if He had the same flesh and blood body which He died in?  
Peace and love Irene

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 07 2011,11:34)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 07 2011,03:59) Mike were is that written that Jesus touched dead corps, Hi Pierre, Luke 8 NIV 52 Meanwhile, all the people were wailing and mourning for her. “Stop wailing,” Jesus said. “She is not dead but asleep.” 53 They laughed at him, knowing that she was dead. 54 But he took her by the hand and said, “My child, get up!” 55 Her spirit returned, and at once she stood up. Then Jesus told them to give her something to eat. mike

Mike

thanks, this need a little thinking to bring my understanding in line with it,

Pierre

[Ed J]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 06 2011,10:22)

ED j said: Quote Hi Jack, If Jesus' somatikos wasn't transformed, how was he able to walk through walls and disappear, prior to the ascension? The same way Philip was able to instantly disappear from the Eunuch's sight and instantly appear at Azotus…by the power of God. After Jesus supernaturally appeared in the room it says, “And many other miracles Jesus truly did in the presence of His disciples.” The supernatural acts of Jesus occurred by the power of His person and not by His body. Jesus put off His somatikos of flesh when He entered into heaven. At that time His soma (or person) was transformed. Paul said that He is now the “immortal King of kings and Lord of lords whom no eye has seen nor can see” (1 Timothy 6:16). Our soma (or person) will be transformed like His glorious soma (or person). KJ

Hi Jack,

Thanks for the explanation!

God bless  
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[KangarooJack]

Irene said:

Quote

I don't believe that there is an in between, after Jesus rose from the death.  Also the doors were shut when he appeared to the Apostles, they thought they had seen a Ghost….and Maria Magdalene did not recognize Jesus either.  Would you not think that they would if He had the same flesh and blood body which He died in? Peace and love Irene

That the disciples 'thought' they had seen a ghost proves nothing. You would think you had seen a ghost too if Georg had risen from the dead and came to you.  Jesus said, “A spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.” Jesus arose in His mortal body because He still needed it for the 40 days He was on earth after He arose. Then He was “quickened” when He went up to heaven. He now dwells in His immortal, invisible and spiritual body.

Men must be resurrected AND quickened before they become immortal.

Quote

For as the Father raises the dead AND quickens them….

Lazarus was raised from the dead and not quickened. Lazarus died again. Jesus was raised from the dead and 'quickened' forty days later. He did not die again. In ad70 the saints were resurrected and quickened in the same moment. They never died again.

KJ

[Baker]

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 07 2011,13:15)

Irene said: Quote I don't believe that there is an in between, after Jesus rose from the death.  Also the doors were shut when he appeared to the Apostles, they thought they had seen a Ghost….and Maria Magdalene did not recognize Jesus either.  Would you not think that they would if He had the same flesh and blood body which He died in? Peace and love Irene That the disciples 'thought' they had seen a ghost proves nothing. You would think you had seen a ghost too if Georg had risen from the dead and came to you.  Jesus said, “A spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.” Jesus arose in His mortal body because He still needed it for the 40 days He was on earth after He arose. Then He was “quickened” when He went up to heaven. He now dwells in His immortal, invisible and spiritual body. Men must be resurrected AND quickened before they become immortal. Quote For as the Father raises the dead AND quickens them…. Lazarus was raised from the dead and not quickened. Lazarus died again. Jesus was raised from the dead and 'quickened' forty days later. He did not die again. In ad70 the saints were resurrected and quickened in the same moment. They never died again. KJ

KJ Come on give me a better explanation then that.  They didn't recognize Him, just like Maria Madelene did not….You either believe that Scripture or not…..Time will tell…..til then I will leave it at that, there is no sense in debating that over and over again….To believe that there is an in between is not according to any Scripture….and I never ever heard of that….to me that is ridiculous….. Jesus can manifest Himself any time, and I believe He did, in order to show those who doubted it was Jesus……Also nobody addresses the ransom….if Jesus became flesh and blood again IMO the ransom could not take effect…and where does it state that men have to be what????quickened, before they become immortal? Are you kidding me? You are way out……
Peace Irene

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 07 2011,20:49)

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 07 2011,13:15) Irene said: Quote I don't believe that there is an in between, after Jesus rose from the death.  Also the doors were shut when he appeared to the Apostles, they thought they had seen a Ghost….and Maria Magdalene did not recognize Jesus either.  Would you not think that they would if He had the same flesh and blood body which He died in? Peace and love Irene That the disciples 'thought' they had seen a ghost proves nothing. You would think you had seen a ghost too if Georg had risen from the dead and came to you.  Jesus said, “A spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.” Jesus arose in His mortal body because He still needed it for the 40 days He was on earth after He arose. Then He was “quickened” when He went up to heaven. He now dwells in His immortal, invisible and spiritual body. Men must be resurrected AND quickened before they become immortal. Quote For as the Father raises the dead AND quickens them…. Lazarus was raised from the dead and not quickened. Lazarus died again. Jesus was raised from the dead and 'quickened' forty days later. He did not die again. In ad70 the saints were resurrected and quickened in the same moment. They never died again. KJ KJ Come on give me a better explanation then that.  They didn't recognize Him, just like Maria Madelene did not….You either believe that Scripture or not…..Time will tell…..til then I will leave it at that, there is no sense in debating that over and over again….To believe that there is an in between is not according to any Scripture….and I never ever heard of that….to me that is ridiculous….. Jesus can manifest Himself any time, and I believe He did, in order to show those who doubted it was Jesus……Also nobody addresses the ransom….if Jesus became flesh and blood again IMO the ransom could not take effect…and where does it state that men have to be what????quickened, before they become immortal?  Are you kidding me?  You are way out…… Peace Irene

The women didn't recognize Him because it was still dark. The men on the road to Emmaus didn't recognize Him because their eyes were restrained (Lk. 24).

Jesus said that a “ghost does not have flesh and bones as you see Me have.”

Jesus was not “quickened” or made spiritual until He ascended to heaven. He needed His fleshly body for the 40 days after He resurrected until His ascension.

Your denial that He came out of the tomb in His fleshly body is inexcusable. He showed Thomas the holes in His side and told him to thrust his fingers in His side. He ate food before them.

The reasons that some did not recognize Him have natural explanations. If He was a ghost, then why did the women think He was a gardener? They thought He looked like a normal human being. But it was still dark and so they could not discern immediately that it was Jesus.

KJ

[terraricca]

Mike

if Christ was resurrected in the body that he died with ,would this mean we also will be resurrected in that same body ?? (Jesus being the first )but scriptures says God make all things anew.no??

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Hi Pierre,

I believe the scriptures go to great lengths to make a distinction between our bodies, which see decay like all those before us, and Jesus' body, which would not be allowed to see decay.

I understand your point, but scripture is pretty adamant about driving home the point that the body of Jesus would be dealt with differently than the bodies of everyone else.

mike

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 14 2011,08:55)

Hi Pierre, I believe the scriptures go to great lengths to make a distinction between our bodies, which see decay like all those before us, and Jesus' body, which would not be allowed to see decay. I understand your point, but scripture is pretty adamant about driving home the point that the body of Jesus would be dealt with differently than the bodies of everyone else. mike

Mike

the body of Moses did not see decay ,is he ?

and when we die what is dead ? our spirit is not dead right ?

wen Christ died what is it that died ? is body for sure ,because the blood was pour out,right?

but Christ spirit wen to God who has given it ,right?

but we know that Christ did not go to his father because he say so to the women ,right?

and we know that Christ was waiting the glory here on earth before he would leave to heaven ,and the glory to glorify his father by showing his diciples that all what he as said came trough and accomplish,right ?

what puzzeles me is that , to not see decay a body does not have to put back on ,in a way.

sorry,but i still tink it is maccabre.

I cannot see for now;what was more important ;to be seen alive in any way,(body) or to give live to a dead body.

Mt 6:25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes?
Mt 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

39 Nicodemus, another distinguished member of the Jewish aristocracy, shared the responsibility for receiving Jesus' body with Joseph. This marks his third appearance in the gospel (see 3:1-15; 7:45-52). Like Joseph, Nicodemus was a secret disciple whose faith grew slowly. As a member of the Sanhedrin, he had more at stake than the Galilean fishermen who had become followers of Jesus early in his career. His cooperation with Joseph in the burial shows that his faith had finally matured. Neither of these men appears in the Jewish records or traditions of the time, presumably because as traitors to Judaism, their names were erased from the records.
The mixture of spices that Nicodemus provided was a large quantity. Spices were generally imported and were very expensive. Myrrh is a gum exuded by a tree that grows in Arabia and is prized for its perfume. It was one of the gifts of the wise men to Jesus (Mt 2:11). Aloes are derived from the pulp in the leaves of a plant that belongs to the lily family. This spice is fragrant and bitter to the taste. Used with myrrh, it acts as a drying agent; and the fragrance would counteract the odor of decaying flesh. The quantity of one hundred Roman pounds (about 75 lbs.) reveals both Nicodemus's wealth and his appreciation of Jesus.

1Co 15:50 Brothers and sisters, here is what I’m telling you. Bodies made of flesh and blood can’t share in the kingdom of God. And what dies can’t share in what never dies.

this is still some of my thoughts

Pierre

[Author]

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