Does jesus have a body?

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February 4, 2011 at 10:06 pm#235359

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Hi All

There has been discussion about Jesus Body being raised and Glorified and changed.

I believe that scriptures teach Jesus has the same Body that was crucified and died. However I believe his body was changed when he was glorified.

If Jesus just shed his body and is only Spirit or has a new and different body now then what was the purpose of the resurrection?

February 4, 2011 at 11:06 pm#235366

terraricca

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 05 2011,15:06)

Hi All

There has been discussion about Jesus Body being raised and Glorified and changed.

I believe that scriptures teach Jesus has the same Body that was crucified and died. However I believe his body was changed when he was glorified.

If Jesus just shed his body and is only Spirit or has a new and different body now then what was the purpose of the resurrection?

your poll is useless ,could you specifie what body you talking about ;

i mean ;body of flesh
spiritual body (the confinement or limits of a spirit body)

;or

Pierre

February 4, 2011 at 11:24 pm#235367

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 04 2011,17:06)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 05 2011,15:06)

Hi All

There has been discussion about Jesus Body being raised and Glorified and changed.

I believe that scriptures teach Jesus has the same Body that was crucified and died. However I believe his body was changed when he was glorified.

If Jesus just shed his body and is only Spirit or has a new and different body now then what was the purpose of the resurrection?

your poll is useless ,could you specifie what body you talking about ;

i mean ;body of flesh
spiritual body (the confinement or limits of a spirit body)

;or

Pierre

If you think it is useless then why ask?

You are so rude man.

February 5, 2011 at 12:25 am#235370

KangarooJack

Participant

TO ALL:

On Romans 6:6 Calvin's commentary online says:

Quote

The body of sin, which he afterwards mentions, does not mean flesh and bones, but the corrupted mass; for man, left to his own nature, is a mass made up of sin.

The Editor's note:

The “body of sin” is a Hebraism, and signifies a sinful body. It has no special reference to the material body, as Origen thought. The “man” here is to be taken in a spiritual sense, as one who has a mind, reason, and affections: therefore the body which belongs to him must be of the same character: it is the whole of what appertains to “the old man,” as he is corrupt and sinful, the whole of what is earthly, wicked, and depraved in him. It is the sinful body of the old man. — Ed.
The Editors clearly sided with Calvin in saying that the body of sin 'has no special reference to the material body.' They said that it is a Hebraism for a sinful body meaning “the whole of what appertains to the 'old man.' “

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom38.x.iii.html

Again Calvin said:

Quote

I have already reminded you that the word body is not to be taken for flesh, and skin, and bones, but, so to speak, for the whole of what man is.

http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom38.x.v.html

Please note that Calvin said that the word 'body' (Gr. 'soma') is not to be taken in the sense of flesh and bones but for the whole of what man is. The Editors agree even citing Origen who said that the word 'body' is a reference to the man in his mind and reason.

Paul said that our earthly bodies will dissolve and we will receive our bodies from heaven which are “not made with hands” (2 Corinthians 4:16-5:5) The expression “not made with hands” literally means “not manufactured from this earth” (cf. Hebrews 9:11).

1. John Calvin said that the word 'body” (soma) is not to be taken in the sense of flesh and blood but for the whole of what man is.

2. Origen said that the word 'body' (soma) refers to the man in his mind and reason.

3. The Septuagint uses 'soma' to translate the Hebrew 'nephesh' (soul) in Genesis 36:6. Our English translations use the word 'person.'

nephesh is soul = soma (Gr.)
nephesh is soul = person (Eng.)
therefore, soma = person

4. Vine's Expository Dictionary says that 'soma' sometimes refers to the whole man.

5. The Greek word for the physical body is not soma but 'somatikos.' Paul NEVER used the word 'somatikos' in reference to the resurrection.

Paul told the saints at Philippi that their 'somas' would be transformed like Christ's glorious soma. But they died and their bodies are long gone. Paul meant that their 'persons' would be transfomed like Christ's glorious person.

Paul told the Corinthians that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God.

WILL KEITH PULL A MIKEBOLL AND IGNORE ALL THE SCHOLARSHIP INCLUDING THE SEVENTY JEWISH SCHOLARS THAT JESUS AND THE APOSTLES QUOTED?

February 5, 2011 at 1:42 am#235382

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 05 2011,08:06)

believe that scriptures teach Jesus has the same Body that was crucified and died. However I believe his body was changed when he was glorified.

Hi Keith,

Where have you been? We've spent hours and pages on this subject in the “Do Spirits have a Body” thread.

I believe as you do, with one apparent exception. I believe all spirits, including Jesus, must have a body of some sort or there would be nothing distinguishing one from the other.

I believe Jesus was raised from death with the same body he died in. I believe he showed the scars of this body to his disciples. And when he realized they thought he was a ghost, he CLEARLY told them that spirits DON'T have flesh and bone, as you see I have.

So, either he was a spirit with a “fake” manifested body and LIED to his disciples by saying he wasn't a spirit, or he told the truth, and at that point, was NOT a spirit yet.

But then we have the other scriptures that say flesh cannot enter heaven, and the ones that say Jesus IS a spirit now.

In 1 Cor 15, Paul, while answering the question, “What kind of bodies will we be raised in?”, explains that all bodies are different, and that earthly man has an earthly body, but “those of heaven” have a spiritual body. This is the body Jesus now has. And since it is NOT made of flesh and blood anymore, he is not a MAN anymore, for MEN are flesh and blood beings. Jesus is now a spirit.

The only scenario that seems to fit ALL of the scriptures is that Jesus was raised in the body he died in, thereby PROVING the ressurection of the dead. Then he remained on earth for 40 days visiting the disciples. Then his body was what Paul calls “transformed” (Phil 3:21) upon his ascension to heaven, because flesh cannot reside there, nor can any MAN ever see the face of God.

peace and love,
mike

February 5, 2011 at 1:50 am#235383

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 05 2011,10:25)

WILL KEITH PULL A MIKEBOLL AND IGNORE ALL THE SCHOLARSHIP INCLUDING THE SEVENTY JEWISH SCHOLARS THAT JESUS AND THE APOSTLES QUOTED?

Really Jack? :laugh:

You're just like JA. I don't even have to be a part of the thread for you to obsess about me. I'm flattered. :;):

FYI, I don't “ignore” the scholars. I research what they claim against scriptures to see if what they say is scripturally correct. So, many times I DISAGREE with the trinitarian scholars, but that is not to say I IGNORE them.

mike

February 5, 2011 at 4:18 am#235406

terraricca

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 05 2011,16:24)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 04 2011,17:06)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 05 2011,15:06)

Hi All

There has been discussion about Jesus Body being raised and Glorified and changed.

I believe that scriptures teach Jesus has the same Body that was crucified and died. However I believe his body was changed when he was glorified.

If Jesus just shed his body and is only Spirit or has a new and different body now then what was the purpose of the resurrection?

your poll is useless ,could you specifie what body you talking about ;

i mean ;body of flesh
spiritual body (the confinement or limits of a spirit body)

;or

Pierre

If you think it is useless then why ask?

You are so rude man.

to some the truth is rude

Pierre

February 5, 2011 at 4:41 am#235414

Ed J

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 05 2011,14:18)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 05 2011,16:24)

terraricca,Feb. wrote:

You are so rude man.

to some the truth is rude

Pierre

Hi Pierre,

The Truth is neither 'rude' nor “polite”.
Rudeness is based on the delivery system.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

February 5, 2011 at 6:56 am#235421

Baker

Participant

Keith! There are two Scriptures I know of that states this

Mar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

1 Timothy 2″6 who gave Himself as ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

In order to the ransom to take effect, His body had to stay in the grave. Even though it says He will not see decay, I don't know exactly where or what God did in this case….
Whether You and Mike are right I don't know for certain….Time will tell. But I do believe He is Spirit.
now.
Peace and Love Irene

February 5, 2011 at 9:25 am#235422

terraricca

Participant

Heb 2:17 For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.

Lev 21:1 The LORD said to Moses, “Speak to the priests, the sons of Aaron, and say to them: ‘A priest must not make himself ceremonially unclean for any of his people who die,

Lev 21:11 He must not enter a place where there is a dead body. He must not make himself unclean, even for his father or mother,
Lev 21:12 nor leave the sanctuary of his God or desecrate it, because he has been dedicated by the anointing oil of his God. I am the LORD

Lev 27:2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If anyone makes a special vow to dedicate persons to the LORD by giving equivalent values

Nu 30:2 When a man makes a vow to the LORD or takes an oath to obligate himself by a pledge, he must not break his word but must do everything he said.

Dt 23:21 If you make a vow to the LORD your God, do not be slow to pay it, for the LORD your God will certainly demand it of you and you will be guilty of sin.
Dt 23:22 But if you refrain from making a vow, you will not be guilty.
Dt 23:23 Whatever your lips utter you must be sure to do, because you made your vow freely to the LORD your God with your own mouth.

for those reasons Christ could not be resuscitated in is old body,

Pierre

February 5, 2011 at 9:27 am#235423

KangarooJack

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 05 2011,16:56)

Keith! There are two Scriptures I know of that states this

Mar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

1 Timothy 2″6 who gave Himself as ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Irene,

Christ's body of flesh came out of the tomb. He appeared to His disciples and ate before them in that body. But He could not enter heaven in it and so He was transformed to His spiritual body.

February 5, 2011 at 9:48 am#235424

KangarooJack

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 05 2011,11:50)

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 05 2011,10:25)

WILL KEITH PULL A MIKEBOLL AND IGNORE ALL THE SCHOLARSHIP INCLUDING THE SEVENTY JEWISH SCHOLARS THAT JESUS AND THE APOSTLES QUOTED?

Really Jack? :laugh:

You're just like JA. I don't even have to be a part of the thread for you to obsess about me. I'm flattered. :;):

mike

Mike,

You're obsessed with yourself. You can't stay out of any discussion. You discarded the Septuagint's use of the word 'monogenes' which translates the Hebrew 'yachid' which simply means 'only.'

I am just trying to pressure Keith to consider the Septuagint's use of the word 'soma' in place of Hebrew 'nephesh' which means 'soul' or 'person' in our English. The word 'soma' was not the word for the physical body. It may refer to the pyhsical body but is the word for the whole man or person.

The word for the physical body is 'somatikos' and Paul NEVER said that our somatikos will be transformed. Our somatikos will perish. Paul said that our 'soma' will be transformed, that is, our person. The proof of this is in the fact that the physical bodies of the Philippians perished without ever being transformed. Therefore, it is the person that Paul was referring to when he said that their 'soma' will be transformed.

If there is just one example of how a word was used in biblical times that goes against one's conclusions, then that one should get his head out of the sand and re-examine his beliefs.

Quote

FYI, I don't “ignore” the scholars. I research what they claim against scriptures to see if what they say is scripturally correct.

B.S! Even francis who is relatively new here has picked up on your ways. You don't “research” Mike. You take your conclusions into the scholars writings and select a line or quote that appears to side with you. I just showed how you ignored a line in the TWOT. Keith even confirmed it because he has the TWOT. You have been found out but you lack the courage and the humility to say, “You got me.”

Jack

February 5, 2011 at 12:00 pm#235427

Baker

Participant

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 05 2011,19:27)

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 05 2011,16:56)

Keith! There are two Scriptures I know of that states this

Mar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

1 Timothy 2″6 who gave Himself as ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Irene,

Christ's body of flesh came out of the tomb. He appeared to His disciples and ate before them in that body. But He could not enter heaven in it and so He was transformed to His spiritual body.

Hi! The reason why I believe that Jesus rose from the dead in a Spiritual body is because of these Scripture in

1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

Also When Maria Magdalene went to the grave she did not recognize Jesus and thought it was the Gardner. Also the Apostles who walked with Jesus, they did not recognize him either, untill He broke bread…..
And also

Jhn 20:18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and [that] he had spoken these things unto her.

Jhn 20:19 ¶ Then the same day at evening, being the first [day] of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace [be] unto you.

If Jesus walked through the door as a human flesh and body, why would was it even mentioned that the doors were shut?

I don't think we should limit our Savior that he could not manifest in order to show His Apostles that He rose from the dead.

I also wonder why Jesus said to Maria M. not to touch Him, cause He had not gone to His Father yet….

But the best evidence I feel is

1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

If you are right or if I am right, that is not important to the fact that Christ did rose from the dead and now is seated on the Throne next to Jehovah God…..
Peace Irene

February 5, 2011 at 1:22 pm#235428

seekingtruth

Participant

My opinion,
I chose Jesus has the same Body but it was glorified and changed! I believe that initially Jesus was only only raised from the dead a body of flesh and blood, but as illustrated by the scripture below we was given a “clean turban on his head”, glorified, and “I will put fine garments on you”, changed.

Zechariah 3 Clean Garments for the High Priest 1 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right side to accuse him. 2 The LORD said to Satan, “The LORD rebuke you, Satan! The LORD, who has chosen Jerusalem, rebuke you! Is not this man a burning stick snatched from the fire?” 3 Now Joshua was dressed in filthy clothes as he stood before the angel. 4 The angel said to those who were standing before him, “Take off his filthy clothes.” Then he said to Joshua, “See, I have taken away your sin, and I will put fine garments on you.” 5 Then I said, “Put a clean turban on his head.” So they put a clean turban on his head and clothed him, while the angel of the LORD stood by. 6 The angel of the LORD gave this charge to Joshua: 7 “This is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘If you will walk in obedience to me and keep my requirements, then you will govern my house and have charge of my courts, and I will give you a place among these standing here. 8 “‘Listen, High Priest Joshua, you and your associates seated before you, who are men symbolic of things to come: I am going to bring my servant, the Branch. 9 See, the stone I have set in front of Joshua! There are seven eyes on that one stone, and I will engrave an inscription on it,’ says the LORD Almighty, ‘and I will remove the sin of this land in a single day. 10 “‘In that day each of you will invite your neighbor to sit under your vine and fig tree,’ declares the LORD Almighty.”

I believe that this is a foreshadowing of Jesus (Joshua) presenting Himself to the Father and receiving the incorruptible (put fine garments on) body (of flesh and bone)

Luke 24:39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

1 Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

1 John 3:2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

As to not not recognizing Him, this was prior to His death

Luke 9:29 As he was praying, the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became as bright as a flash of lightning.

Peace to all who love the truth – Wm

February 5, 2011 at 3:47 pm#235433

theodorej

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 05 2011,08:06)

Hi All

There has been discussion about Jesus Body being raised and Glorified and changed.

I believe that scriptures teach Jesus has the same Body that was crucified and died. However I believe his body was changed when he was glorified.

If Jesus just shed his body and is only Spirit or has a new and different body now then what was the purpose of the resurrection?

greetings WJ…..Your question is a good one that begs a logical answer,however sometimes logic can be elusive…The resurection was a prelude of what is promised all of us and just as Jesus rose from the dead so we will to and be joined with a glorified body resembling our own…Thomas was convinced only by the physical touching of the risen christ…

February 5, 2011 at 4:12 pm#235435

KangarooJack

Participant

Irene said:

Quote

Hi! The reason why I believe that Jesus rose from the dead in a Spiritual body is because of these Scripture in

1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

Irene,

You are correct that Jesus has His spiritual body now. But He rose from the dead in His fleshly body. He appeared to His disciples in it and He ate with them. He still had the holes in His hands and His side. This proves that He came out of the tomb in His fleshly body.

The resurrection of Jesus had to be in TWO stages because He had to remain on earth for the 40 days. He arose from the dead in His natural body and after He was done with it He cast it off and was glorified. It was at that time that He became a “life giving SPIRIT.”

The resurrection of the righteous saints in ad70 was in ONE stage. They came out of sheol and went directly to heaven in their spiritual bodies. So the resurrection is past. From ad70 and onward God's saints are 'caught up' in their spiritual bodies to meet the Lord. Their physical bodies are recycled by the bugs and the birds.

February 5, 2011 at 4:31 pm#235439

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ Feb. 05 2011,10:12)

It was at that time that He became a “life giving SPIRIT.”

Jack

What does this mean, that he wasn't a “Life giving Spirit” until he ascended?

What was he when he went to Sheol and conquered death?

February 5, 2011 at 8:01 pm#235449

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Feb. 06 2011,05:00)