Does it really matter

[shimmer]

Hi,

Does it really matter if someone believes in the Trinity or not ?

A non Trinitarian would feel uncomfortable in a Church where people are worshipping Jesus, as there is little mention of God, or if God is mentioned I think most would be thinking of Jesus [Is that correct?] . To a Non Trinitarian they see Jesus as what He said He was, the Son of God, who prayed to the Father and told others to do the same. But these are just different perspectives. The fact is, whether Trinitarian or not, both are followers of Jesus. Both read the same book.

I go on another forum which has Trinitarians and non Trinitarians. The subject is prophecy. Everyone gets on just fine, well, as far as I've seen.

Is it not just a fact that we all see thing's differently ?  

“Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen, and have believed.”

“This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ”.

[kerwin]

Shimmer,

It does matter as one must believe the Jesus is a human being tempted just like they are but without sin.  This is important because one must believe that God can and will make them righteous as he will if they choose to enter and abide by the new covenant.  That promise of not sinning is the promise of the spirit of righteousnes and if you do not believe that you cannot expect to receive of walk by it.

There may also be other ways it matters as I am but a student learning and stumbling as the Maser Educator teaches me.

On issues that we hold in common Unitheos and others often agree.  Sometimes even between two of the same beliefs the demon of confliction interferes.   Jesus told us this would happen with even families divided against one another.  Though it is troubling it must happen so that some will be refined and enter the kingdom of heaven.

[shimmer]

Kerwin,

I hear what your saying. And thank you I learned something with your post. The way I'm seeing it,  Jesus was tempted by Satan, this would mean He could have sinned, but He never did, He overcame, as it says,

“Who is worthy to open the book, and to break its seals?”  No one in heaven above, or on the earth, or under the earth, was able to open the book, or to look in it.  And I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open the book, or to look in it.  One of the elders said to me, “Don't weep. Behold, the Lion who is of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome

“In the world you have oppression; but take courage. I have overcome the world.”

“Why do you call me good? No one is good but one, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

We too can overcome.

I believe it is how we behave which proves our ability to inherit eternal life.

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. Before him all the nations will be gathered, and he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.  He will set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Then the King will tell those on his right hand, 'Come, blessed of my Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;  for I was hungry, and you gave me food to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me drink. I was a stranger, and you took me in.  I was naked, and you clothed me. I was sick, and you visited me. I was in prison, and you came to me.'  “Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry, and feed you; or thirsty, and give you a drink?  When did we see you as a stranger, and take you in; or naked, and clothe you?  When did we see you sick, or in prison, and come to you?'  “The King will answer them, 'Most certainly I tell you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'

Then he will say also to those on the left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels;  for I was hungry, and you didn't give me food to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me no drink;  I was a stranger, and you didn't take me in; naked, and you didn't clothe me; sick, and in prison, and you didn't visit me.'  “Then they will also answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and didn't help you?'  “Then he will answer them, saying, 'Most certainly I tell you, inasmuch as you didn't do it to one of the least of these, you didn't do it to me.'  These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

If one is a Trinitarian or a non Trinitarian, and they are wonderful people, they could qualify to inherit eternal life, they will understand the truth  'one day'

As God picks people out for His Kingdom, they would have to be a certain type of person. Kind; innocent; caring; gentle; doing good deeds to others; obedient; humble and meek,

“The dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works. The sea gave up the dead who were in it. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works”.

So Why is it important to know and believe in the Son ? Firstly, to believe in Him is to believe in God, and to know Him is to learn from Him. Many people profess to love and even worship Jesus, but do they do as He said ?

I am sure there are many Trinitarians and many Non Trinitarians who do as he said. No-one is ever perfect, but “Narrow is the road and few are those finding it”. Maybe there are people who over time and many mistakes become [almost] perfect.  Jesus, after speaking of the law's and commands said…

“Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect”.

There could be a problem with Trinity beliefs by believing that Jesus was born perfect and was unable to sin, which could mean that those who believe this, would feel unable to follow Jesus fully, which could make it easier for them to have an attitude of ” Im not Jesus so I can sin”….I don't know, just my thoughts….

[kerwin]

Shimmer,

As far as not sinning I do not say “no one is perfect” for God has the power to do anything and will do it for those who seek him. I do understand that human beings must mature is the spirit of Christ to become perfect and that even those who don’t yet have the spirit must grow in belief to the point where they obtain the spirit. So why would I judge another student on a journey that I am myself making. Whether they are behind me or ahead of me, I hope that they on the path to God.

I assure you though that you can overcome you sins for God will train you to do so if you believe he will and constantly and persistently ask him to do so. What I strive to do is to say no to the sins I have the power to overcome and to seek deliverance from those I am compelled to do. I pray that God rebukes me for doing wrong and teaches me to do right. He answers my pleas with mercy. It is too much for me to bear and so I surrender myself to God for it is God who accomplishes these things and lives with me.

I hope this helps you in your own pursuit of the prize of righteousness to which the prophets looked.

[shimmer]

That was really well spoken Kerwin, In the second paragraph I really felt you were speaking with spiritual guidance and I thank you and hope other's read what you wrote. God bless you.

[942767]

Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 07 2010,14:22)

Hi, Does it really matter if someone believes in the Trinity or not ? A non Trinitarian would feel uncomfortable in a Church where people are worshipping Jesus, as there is little mention of God, or if God is mentioned I think most would be thinking of Jesus [Is that correct?] . To a Non Trinitarian they see Jesus as what He said He was, the Son of God, who prayed to the Father and told others to do the same. But these are just different perspectives. The fact is, whether Trinitarian or not, both are followers of Jesus. Both read the same book. I go on another forum which has Trinitarians and non Trinitarians. The subject is prophecy. Everyone gets on just fine, well, as far as I've seen. Is it not just a fact that we all see thing's differently ?   “Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen, and have believed.” “This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ”.

Hi:

Yes, it matters because many Jews and Muslims will not come to God for salvation through His Only Begotten Son and Christ, because of the “Trinity Doctrine”.

It matters to God is someone perverts His Word.

Quote

Proverbs 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Also, these churches that teach the trinity(the ones that with whom I have experience) tell us that we can not join their church unless we believe their doctrines, and so is this a different church than the Lord established?  When we were born again by confessing Jesus as our Lord, we entered into a covenant relationship with God through him, and so now, why must I agree to these doctrines to join a church?

God is calling his people out of Babylonia.  Yes, it definitely matters to God that we teach His Word in truth.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[mikeboll64]

Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 07 2010,14:22)

Hi, Does it really matter if someone believes in the Trinity or not ?

Hi Shimmer,  

It does matter, but I'll let inspired words tell you.

Matt 4:10 NIV
10Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'”

Here, Jesus himself is quoting Moses.  And Moses was speaking God's own words to the Israelites.  The very first commandment is,

3 “You shall have no other gods besides me.”

This is Jesus' Father and God speaking.  It is the One Jesus says is “our God and his God”.

There are many more scriptures about this, Shimmer.  They are all very clear about who we should worship and serve as God.  Jesus was clear about it too.  He said the Father is “the only true God”.  Paul says we have “but one God, the Father”.

Trinitarians try to tell you it's alright to worship Jesus as God.  They think because it's God's Son, they are actually doing them both a favor by placing Jesus in such a high position. Don't follow them, Shimmer.  Just follow scripture.  All scripture is inspired of God Himself, and it is chock full of verses telling us to worship only Jehovah, not anything OF His, like His Son or His Holy Spirit.

peace and love,
mike

[Proclaimer]

I think it matters Shimmer, because the first commandment matters.
If the Trinity violates the first commandment, then it violates the most important of the 10.

[Ed J]

Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 07 2010,20:48)

Kerwin, I am sure there are many Trinitarians and many Non Trinitarians who do as he said. No-one is ever perfect, but “Narrow is the road and few are those finding it”. Maybe there are people who over time and many mistakes become [almost] perfect.  Jesus, after speaking of the law's and commands said… “Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect”. There could be a problem with Trinity beliefs by believing that Jesus was born perfect and was unable to sin, which could mean that those who believe this, would feel unable to follow Jesus fully, which could make it easier for them to have an attitude of ” Im not Jesus so I can sin”….I don't know, just my thoughts….

Hi Shimmer,

Matt.5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
2Tm.3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

God would not tell us to do something that we are incapable of doing.
There is only one way to be perfect and that’s to stop sinning (Matt. 5:48)!
And can only be done with the Holy Spirit tabernacling on the inside (Heb. 8:10).

A progression away from the old sinful nature: (Col.3:8-14)

1John has a progression away from sin. Starting at 1John 1:8:
“If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves”…
Sinners practice sin!

Progressing to 1John 3:9: “Whoever is born of God does not commit sin;
For his seed remainith in him: and he cannot sin (AS A USUAL PRACTICE),
because he is borne of God.”
Practice of sin diminishes!

Finishing in 1John 5:18: “We know that whosoever is borne of God SINNETH NOT;
But he that is begotten of God keepeth (GUARDS) himself,
and that wicked one (Satan) toucheth him not.
All sinning STOPS; fulfilling Matt. 5:48! (Eph.4:13)

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Hi Shimmer,

Heb.11:40: God having provided some better thing for us,
that they without us should not be made perfect.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[kerwin]

To all,

I have heard some of you advance the hypothesis that the argument over whether God is a unity of three persons or just one individual is important because God instructs us not to have any other God's before us. Though I am convinced that hypothesis is true I also believe we need to learn from the spirit why it is loving ourselves and our fellow man to adhere to that and every other righteous command of God.

[shimmer]

Hi,

I hear what you are all saying, it was something to think about, thank you.

My thoughts,

When the Lord returns it is by what we have done. Whether or not we fed the hungry, Whether or not we gave the thirsty water to drink [Jesus said He is the living water,  maybe this has two meaning's…. did we share what we know with those who do not know] , whether or not we took in the stranger, clothed the naked, visited the sick, or those in Prison,  James also speaks of this as pure religion.

Abraham had no knowledge of the church; Jesus Christ; the prophets; Moses or the ten Commandments but he was saved through faith in God's promises.  

Rahab, A pagan prostitute,  She lied to save the Israelite spies, she was the only one saved out of all Jericho, saved through that one righteous act, I think that say's a lot.

Scripture say's only good things of those who believe in the Saviour, those who are for him, those who deny him He will deny to the Father, so Trinitarians are not exactly denying Him are they ?

They have not denied the Lord or God the Father.

[Proclaimer]

I agree that fruits are more important, but this forum is about scripture and doctrine and not fruits. And if it was about fruits, then bragging about our good works would be counter-productive. Although we can demonstrate some fruit here like giving (of our time), patience, wisdom, etc.

But doctrine is important because we are instructed to keep the doctrine of Christ and those that do not keep it, are not of him. We are also told to be wary of false teachers. So ignoring false doctrine fosters the development of false teachers, and as it is written, the blind will lead the blind into a ditch.

False doctrines enable false guides.

[shimmer]

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 10 2010,11:06)

Yes, it matters because many Jews and Muslims will not come to God for salvation through His Only Begotten Son and Christ, because of the “Trinity Doctrine”. It matters to God is someone perverts His Word.

Marty, The best we can do, as is our commission in these last day's to spread the word, is to spread the word according to how we believe, The Angels rejoice over one lost soul, most of the problem with Islam not hearing is because it is falsely spread through acts of war, or the fact that only one percent of Christianity are courageous enough to do it, what does it say of the cowards in Revelations ?  

Im sure that many of these brave souls are Trinitarian in their belief,

[shimmer]

Mike and t8, I agree with you in your beliefs, it's what I believe too on who the Father is and who the Son is.  

Spreading false doctrines, ok, I think where the problem is is when those who are Trinitarian condemn non Trinitarians for [being non Trinitarian]

I think the worst false doctrine to spread is the Eternal Hell Torment one, which seems to be only something Trinitarians do,

[shimmer]

I agree Kerwin,

EdJ, maybe if you stop calling me Satan because I use the word's 'I am' I will pay attention to anything you say

[JustAskin]

Shimmer,

I agree with what you say…except the 'worse false doctrine'. This is just scaremongering.
What is 'worse doctrine' is that doctrine that denies Jesus, his coming from heaven, his life as 'man, and only as man, not God in disguise, or man and God combined, his death and resurrection' and denial of his testimony'.

This/Those are, the “Worse Doctrine” – I didn't mention “God Almighty” as most people believe in God Almighty. In fact Scriptures says that he who denies CHRIST (primary), denies God also, because Christ came to reveal God with the TESTIMONY that God gave him.

[shimmer]

I agree JustAskin.

[Ed J]

Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 11 2010,09:17)

Hi, I hear what you are all saying, it was something to think about, thank you. My thoughts, When the Lord returns it is by what we have done. Whether or not we fed the hungry, Whether or not we gave the thirsty water to drink [Jesus said He is the living water,  maybe this has two meaning's…. did we share what we know with those who do not know] , whether or not we took in the stranger, clothed the naked, visited the sick, or those in Prison,  James also speaks of this as pure religion. Abraham had no knowledge of the church; Jesus Christ; the prophets; Moses or the ten Commandments but he was saved through faith in God's promises.   Rahab, A pagan prostitute,  She lied to save the Israelite spies, she was the only one saved out of all Jericho, saved through that one righteous act, I think that say's a lot. Scripture say's only good things of those who believe in the Saviour, those who are for him, those who deny him He will deny to the Father, so Trinitarians are not exactly denying Him are they ? They have not denied the Lord or God the Father.

Hi Shimmer,

Jesus Christ returned at Pentecost. (Click Here) (John 14:23)

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 11 2010,10:06)

I agree Kerwin, EdJ, maybe if you stop calling me Satan because I use the word's 'I am' I will pay attention to anything you say

Hi Shimmer,

I NEVER called 'you' satan; why are you saying this LIE?

Ed J (Isaiah 27:4-5)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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