Does god procreate?

[JustAskin]

Mike,

Did God say “Today, I know you…” to Jeremiah?

Or did you just add those words to your Scripture quote?

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 25 2010,19:49)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 24 2010,16:27) Kathi Ok if what yoiu say is true then show me Arius quote. The above says nothing about him having a beginning out of nothing. WJ Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 24 2010,17:58) Keith: Quote In explaining his actions against Arius, Alexander of Alexandria wrote a letter to Alexander of Constantinople and Eusebius of Nicomedia (where the emperor was then residing), detailing the errors into which he believed Arius had fallen. According to Alexander, Arius taught: That God was not always the Father, but that there was a period when he was not the Father; that the Word of God was not from eternity, but was made out of nothing; for that the ever-existing God (‘the I AM’—the eternal One) made him who did not previously exist, out of nothing; wherefore there was a time when he did not exist, inasmuch as the Son is a creature and a work. That he is neither like the Father as it regards his essence, nor is by nature either the Father’s true Word, or true Wisdom, but indeed one of his works and creatures, being erroneously called Word and Wisdom, since he was himself made of God’s own Word and the Wisdom which is in God, whereby God both made all things and him also. Wherefore he is as to his nature mutable and susceptible of change, as all other rational creatures are: hence the Word is alien to and other than the essence of God; and the Father is inexplicable by the Son, and invisible to him, for neither does the Word perfectly and accurately know the Father, neither can he distinctly see him. The Son knows not the nature of his own essence: for he was made on our account, in order that God might create us by him, as by an instrument; nor would he ever have existed, unless God had wished to create us.[41] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arius Kathi Thanks, but do you purposely just close your eyes to the other facts… “THAT GOD WAS NOT ALWAYS THE FATHER, but that there was a period when he was not the Father; that “THE WORD OF GOD WAS NOT FROM ETERNITY, but was made out of nothing; for that the ever-existing God (‘the I AM’—the eternal One) made him who did not previously exist, out of nothing; “wherefore there was a time when he did not exist”, inasmuch as the Son is a creature and a work. The issue Kathi, is Arius believed there was a time that Jesus didn’t exist or that the Father was not ALWAYS the Father. You do see that don’t you? WJ

WJ,
The Father was not always the Father,
just like he is Jehovah Rapha and but he was not always Rapha,
He is God our Healer but wasnt always a healer.

To be healer their must be pain,
to be a Father their must be children,

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 25 2010,13:23)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 25 2010,19:49) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 24 2010,16:27) Kathi Ok if what yoiu say is true then show me Arius quote. The above says nothing about him having a beginning out of nothing. WJ Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 24 2010,17:58) Keith: Quote In explaining his actions against Arius, Alexander of Alexandria wrote a letter to Alexander of Constantinople and Eusebius of Nicomedia (where the emperor was then residing), detailing the errors into which he believed Arius had fallen. According to Alexander, Arius taught: That God was not always the Father, but that there was a period when he was not the Father; that the Word of God was not from eternity, but was made out of nothing; for that the ever-existing God (‘the I AM’—the eternal One) made him who did not previously exist, out of nothing; wherefore there was a time when he did not exist, inasmuch as the Son is a creature and a work. That he is neither like the Father as it regards his essence, nor is by nature either the Father’s true Word, or true Wisdom, but indeed one of his works and creatures, being erroneously called Word and Wisdom, since he was himself made of God’s own Word and the Wisdom which is in God, whereby God both made all things and him also. Wherefore he is as to his nature mutable and susceptible of change, as all other rational creatures are: hence the Word is alien to and other than the essence of God; and the Father is inexplicable by the Son, and invisible to him, for neither does the Word perfectly and accurately know the Father, neither can he distinctly see him. The Son knows not the nature of his own essence: for he was made on our account, in order that God might create us by him, as by an instrument; nor would he ever have existed, unless God had wished to create us.[41] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arius Kathi Thanks, but do you purposely just close your eyes to the other facts… “THAT GOD WAS NOT ALWAYS THE FATHER, but that there was a period when he was not the Father; that “THE WORD OF GOD WAS NOT FROM ETERNITY, but was made out of nothing; for that the ever-existing God (‘the I AM’—the eternal One) made him who did not previously exist, out of nothing; “wherefore there was a time when he did not exist”, inasmuch as the Son is a creature and a work. The issue Kathi, is Arius believed there was a time that Jesus didn’t exist or that the Father was not ALWAYS the Father. You do see that don’t you? WJ WJ, The Father was not always the Father, just like he is Jehovah Rapha and but he was not always Rapha, He is God our Healer but wasnt always a healer. To be healer their must be pain, to be a Father their must be children,

SF

That is if you assume that Jesus had a beginning.

WJ

[JustAskin]

To everyone and no one,

When does a person become a Father?

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 25 2010,23:36)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 25 2010,13:23) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 25 2010,19:49) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 24 2010,16:27) Kathi Ok if what yoiu say is true then show me Arius quote. The above says nothing about him having a beginning out of nothing. WJ Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 24 2010,17:58) Keith: Quote In explaining his actions against Arius, Alexander of Alexandria wrote a letter to Alexander of Constantinople and Eusebius of Nicomedia (where the emperor was then residing), detailing the errors into which he believed Arius had fallen. According to Alexander, Arius taught: That God was not always the Father, but that there was a period when he was not the Father; that the Word of God was not from eternity, but was made out of nothing; for that the ever-existing God (‘the I AM’—the eternal One) made him who did not previously exist, out of nothing; wherefore there was a time when he did not exist, inasmuch as the Son is a creature and a work. That he is neither like the Father as it regards his essence, nor is by nature either the Father’s true Word, or true Wisdom, but indeed one of his works and creatures, being erroneously called Word and Wisdom, since he was himself made of God’s own Word and the Wisdom which is in God, whereby God both made all things and him also. Wherefore he is as to his nature mutable and susceptible of change, as all other rational creatures are: hence the Word is alien to and other than the essence of God; and the Father is inexplicable by the Son, and invisible to him, for neither does the Word perfectly and accurately know the Father, neither can he distinctly see him. The Son knows not the nature of his own essence: for he was made on our account, in order that God might create us by him, as by an instrument; nor would he ever have existed, unless God had wished to create us.[41] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arius Kathi Thanks, but do you purposely just close your eyes to the other facts… “THAT GOD WAS NOT ALWAYS THE FATHER, but that there was a period when he was not the Father; that “THE WORD OF GOD WAS NOT FROM ETERNITY, but was made out of nothing; for that the ever-existing God (‘the I AM’—the eternal One) made him who did not previously exist, out of nothing; “wherefore there was a time when he did not exist”, inasmuch as the Son is a creature and a work. The issue Kathi, is Arius believed there was a time that Jesus didn’t exist or that the Father was not ALWAYS the Father. You do see that don’t you? WJ WJ, The Father was not always the Father, just like he is Jehovah Rapha and but he was not always Rapha, He is God our Healer but wasnt always a healer. To be healer their must be pain, to be a Father their must be children, SF That is if you assume that Jesus had a beginning. WJ

I dont get it?
i think i misunderstood your post

[JustAskin]

To Everyone and no one,

Is there a verse that states that Jesus was the “Son of God” before he came to earth?

Only simple answers please – Chapters and verses – I am looking at a theory and need your help.

Luke 9:6 :”For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words of him the Son of Man will be ashamed
when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels.” (Hey , a trinity : Did WJ, et al., miss this one!)

Jesus said, “You believe in God, believe also in Me.” (Is Jesus saying that he is God – quite clearly not)

[terraricca]

Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 26 2010,13:32)

To Everyone and no one, Is there a verse that states that Jesus was the “Son of God” before he came to earth? Only simple answers please – Chapters and verses – I am looking at a theory and need your help. Luke 9:6 :”For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels.” (Hey , a trinity : Did WJ, et al., miss this one!) Jesus said, “You believe in God, believe also in Me.” (Is Jesus saying that he is God – quite clearly not)

JA

look at what scriptures say;God was alone;God create the Word,;now what is the WORD?is he not also the son the first born of creation ?

now God created all things trough him ;;in a way God could be called Grand father and Jesus the father??lol

Pierre

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 25 2010,14:20)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 25 2010,23:36) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 25 2010,13:23) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 25 2010,19:49) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 24 2010,16:27) Kathi Ok if what yoiu say is true then show me Arius quote. The above says nothing about him having a beginning out of nothing. WJ Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 24 2010,17:58) Keith: Quote In explaining his actions against Arius, Alexander of Alexandria wrote a letter to Alexander of Constantinople and Eusebius of Nicomedia (where the emperor was then residing), detailing the errors into which he believed Arius had fallen. According to Alexander, Arius taught: That God was not always the Father, but that there was a period when he was not the Father; that the Word of God was not from eternity, but was made out of nothing; for that the ever-existing God (‘the I AM’—the eternal One) made him who did not previously exist, out of nothing; wherefore there was a time when he did not exist, inasmuch as the Son is a creature and a work. That he is neither like the Father as it regards his essence, nor is by nature either the Father’s true Word, or true Wisdom, but indeed one of his works and creatures, being erroneously called Word and Wisdom, since he was himself made of God’s own Word and the Wisdom which is in God, whereby God both made all things and him also. Wherefore he is as to his nature mutable and susceptible of change, as all other rational creatures are: hence the Word is alien to and other than the essence of God; and the Father is inexplicable by the Son, and invisible to him, for neither does the Word perfectly and accurately know the Father, neither can he distinctly see him. The Son knows not the nature of his own essence: for he was made on our account, in order that God might create us by him, as by an instrument; nor would he ever have existed, unless God had wished to create us.[41] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arius Kathi Thanks, but do you purposely just close your eyes to the other facts… “THAT GOD WAS NOT ALWAYS THE FATHER, but that there was a period when he was not the Father; that “THE WORD OF GOD WAS NOT FROM ETERNITY, but was made out of nothing; for that the ever-existing God (‘the I AM’—the eternal One) made him who did not previously exist, out of nothing; “wherefore there was a time when he did not exist”, inasmuch as the Son is a creature and a work. The issue Kathi, is Arius believed there was a time that Jesus didn’t exist or that the Father was not ALWAYS the Father. You do see that don’t you? WJ WJ, The Father was not always the Father, just like he is Jehovah Rapha and but he was not always Rapha, He is God our Healer but wasnt always a healer. To be healer their must be pain, to be a Father their must be children, SF That is if you assume that Jesus had a beginning. WJ I dont get it? i think i misunderstood your post

SF

All I am saying is that Jesus was always the Son to the Father and the Father was always the Father to Jesus.

Think of it like this.

Jesus was the Lamb of God that was slain before the foundation of the world, but he didn't become the Lamb slain until he hung on the tree.

We were chosen in him before the foundation of the world but yet we didn't exist as sons until we are born again and baptised into him.

What was it that was concieved and born in the virgin and became a man? Wasn't that Holy thing named Jesus the “born Son of God” as the Angel declared? Didnt' the Father Father Jesus (which is one of the definitions of the word “begotten”) as a boy and he grew in the grace and knowledge of the Father.

Was Jesus literally born twice, once before time and then once when he was born in the flesh?

I don't think so and many of the Forefathers believe that Jesus was always with the Father.

So now that the Word that was with God and was God has come through literal birth as the “Only begotten Son of God”, we can look back and say that he is the Only begotten Son of God that was always with the Father.

WJ

[terraricca]

[QSo now that the Word that was with God and was God has come through literal birth as the “Only begotten Son of God”, we can look back and say that he is the Only begotten Son of God that was always with the Father.

WJ

you will make sure that, that it is conform of all scriptures ,if not let me know what is your religion denomination,so i make sur i do not go there.

Pierre

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 26 2010,02:02)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 25 2010,14:20) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 25 2010,23:36) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Sep. 25 2010,13:23) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 25 2010,19:49) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 24 2010,16:27) Kathi Ok if what yoiu say is true then show me Arius quote. The above says nothing about him having a beginning out of nothing. WJ Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 24 2010,17:58) Keith: Quote In explaining his actions against Arius, Alexander of Alexandria wrote a letter to Alexander of Constantinople and Eusebius of Nicomedia (where the emperor was then residing), detailing the errors into which he believed Arius had fallen. According to Alexander, Arius taught: That God was not always the Father, but that there was a period when he was not the Father; that the Word of God was not from eternity, but was made out of nothing; for that the ever-existing God (‘the I AM’—the eternal One) made him who did not previously exist, out of nothing; wherefore there was a time when he did not exist, inasmuch as the Son is a creature and a work. That he is neither like the Father as it regards his essence, nor is by nature either the Father’s true Word, or true Wisdom, but indeed one of his works and creatures, being erroneously called Word and Wisdom, since he was himself made of God’s own Word and the Wisdom which is in God, whereby God both made all things and him also. Wherefore he is as to his nature mutable and susceptible of change, as all other rational creatures are: hence the Word is alien to and other than the essence of God; and the Father is inexplicable by the Son, and invisible to him, for neither does the Word perfectly and accurately know the Father, neither can he distinctly see him. The Son knows not the nature of his own essence: for he was made on our account, in order that God might create us by him, as by an instrument; nor would he ever have existed, unless God had wished to create us.[41] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arius Kathi Thanks, but do you purposely just close your eyes to the other facts… “THAT GOD WAS NOT ALWAYS THE FATHER, but that there was a period when he was not the Father; that “THE WORD OF GOD WAS NOT FROM ETERNITY, but was made out of nothing; for that the ever-existing God (‘the I AM’—the eternal One) made him who did not previously exist, out of nothing; “wherefore there was a time when he did not exist”, inasmuch as the Son is a creature and a work. The issue Kathi, is Arius believed there was a time that Jesus didn’t exist or that the Father was not ALWAYS the Father. You do see that don’t you? WJ WJ, The Father was not always the Father, just like he is Jehovah Rapha and but he was not always Rapha, He is God our Healer but wasnt always a healer. To be healer their must be pain, to be a Father their must be children, SF That is if you assume that Jesus had a beginning. WJ I dont get it? i think i misunderstood your post SF All I am saying is that Jesus was always the Son to the Father and the Father was always the Father to Jesus. Think of it like this. Jesus was the Lamb of God that was slain before the foundation of the world, but he didn't become the Lamb slain until he hung on the tree. We were chosen in him before the foundation of the world but yet we didn't exist as sons until we are born again and baptised into him. What was it that was concieved and born in the virgin and became a man? Wasn't that Holy thing named Jesus the “born Son of God” as the Angel declared? Didnt' the Father Father Jesus (which is one of the definitions of the word “begotten”) as a boy and he grew in the grace and knowledge of the Father. Was Jesus literally born twice, once before time and then once when he was born in the flesh? I don't think so and many of the Forefathers believe that Jesus was always with the Father. So now that the Word that was with God and was God has come through literal birth as the “Only begotten Son of God”, we can look back and say that he is the Only begotten Son of God that was always with the Father. WJ

Ok,
So what your saying is that in Eternity,
that God the Father always was in a relationship within himself with the Son.
correct?

[shimmer]

Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 26 2010,07:12)

To everyone and no one, When does a person become a Father?

A person becomes a Father at conception.

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 26 2010,07:09)

Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 26 2010,13:32) To Everyone and no one, Is there a verse that states that Jesus was the “Son of God” before he came to earth? Only simple answers please – Chapters and verses – I am looking at a theory and need your help. Luke 9:6 :”For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels.” (Hey , a trinity : Did WJ, et al., miss this one!) Jesus said, “You believe in God, believe also in Me.” (Is Jesus saying that he is God – quite clearly not) JA look at what scriptures say;God was alone;God create the Word,;now what is the WORD?is he not also the son the first born of creation ? now God created all things trough him ;;in a way God could be called Grand father and Jesus the father??lol Pierre

Hi Terraricca,

Where does it say all these things; in your mind?

Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[shimmer]

The Father is the source of the word, but the word is always spoken through things (Prophets,Angels) then in Jesus.

Hbr 1:1 (Youngs Literal Translation))

In many parts, and many ways, God of old having spoken to the fathers in the prophets, in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages; who being the brightness of the glory, and the impress of His subsistence, bearing up also the all things by the saying of his might — through himself having made a cleansing of our sins, sat down at the right hand of the greatness in the highest, having become so much better than the messengers, as he did inherit a more excellent name than they.

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 27 2010,03:19)

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 26 2010,07:09) Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 26 2010,13:32) To Everyone and no one, Is there a verse that states that Jesus was the “Son of God” before he came to earth? Only simple answers please – Chapters and verses – I am looking at a theory and need your help. Luke 9:6 :”For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels.” (Hey , a trinity : Did WJ, et al., miss this one!) Jesus said, “You believe in God, believe also in Me.” (Is Jesus saying that he is God – quite clearly not) JA look at what scriptures say;God was alone;God create the Word,;now what is the WORD?is he not also the son the first born of creation ? now God created all things trough him ;;in a way God could be called Grand father and Jesus the father??lol Pierre Hi Terraricca, Where does it say all these things; in your mind? Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

edj

it is a shame that people want to look in Gods and Son relation so deep it is almost a medical visitation,
that is what stinks in my nose,wen you wandering from scriptures to go byon them and then pretend that it is useful

you tell me how useful is it to know or go there???

are we better of? are we saved better and quicker??is it a need to know ?? is it enlarged our knowledge and if so in witch direction??are those question needed by the Holy spirit ??

Pierre

[shimmer]

I agree Terrarica, my parents said what you just said, theres things we don't know, better to leave it at that, of course the curious mind will start to think, especially on a forum like this, but being with God has nothing to do with it all, not that I can see,

[JustAskin]

Brother Terra, Sister Shimmer,

Thank you for your input.

Shimmer, your post was very valuable. It contains something I missed in previous reading of this exerpt.

Terra, you 'watching my back'. Safe, man, safe!

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 26 2010,20:39)

Quote (Ed J @ Sep. 27 2010,03:19) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 26 2010,07:09) Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 26 2010,13:32) To Everyone and no one, Is there a verse that states that Jesus was the “Son of God” before he came to earth? Only simple answers please – Chapters and verses – I am looking at a theory and need your help. Luke 9:6 :”For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels.” (Hey , a trinity : Did WJ, et al., miss this one!) Jesus said, “You believe in God, believe also in Me.” (Is Jesus saying that he is God – quite clearly not) JA look at what scriptures say;God was alone;God create the Word,;now what is the WORD?is he not also the son the first born of creation ? now God created all things trough him ;;in a way God could be called Grand father and Jesus the father??lol Pierre Hi Terraricca, Where does it say all these things; in your mind? Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org edj it is a shame that people want to look in Gods and Son relation so deep it is almost a medical visitation, that is what stinks in my nose,wen you wandering from scriptures to go byon them and then pretend that it is useful you tell me how useful is it to know or go there??? are we better of? are we saved better and quicker??is it a need to know ?? is it enlarged our knowledge and if so in witch direction??are those question needed by the Holy spirit ?? Pierre

Hi Terraricca,

I thought you would have at least supplied the biblical referencing that
you associate with these conclusions you have drawn from your mind.

Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

[mikeboll64]

Quote (JustAskin @ Sep. 26 2010,04:02)

Mike, Did God say “Today, I know you…” to Jeremiah? Or did you just add those words to your Scripture quote?

Hey JA,

No, those words aren't in scripture.  The point I was trying to make was that the setting of Jesus on Zion as King doesn't have to be the same day as the “Today God begot me”.  The JW's think Satan was cast out of heaven and Jesus was placed as “King on Zion” in 1914, according to some math they do using numbers from Daniel and Revelation.  I don't know if I agree or not, so let's not take the conversation there.

The point is, if Jesus WAS set as King on Zion in 1914, and his first public statement as King was to declare God's decree “You are my Son.  Today I have begotten you.”, it does not mean that the “today” he was placed as King is the same “today” God said “I have begotten you”.

So WJ is trying to link the being placed as King into the same “Today” that Jesus was “begotten” by his God, and it doesn't really fit into scripture.  Rev 12 says,

9The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
  “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
     and the authority of his Christ.

To me, this seems to say that it is at this time that Christ begins his rule as King on Zion, not from the moment he was raised.  I believe that when Satan was cast out, Jesus began to rule as King in heaven.  And we know that is not the day that God “begot” him.

I've started to ramble on here, but my point is that the “Kingship” of Psalm 2:6 and the actual “begetting” of Psalm 2:7 do NOT have to referrence the same time period.  And knowing that, we then also know that the “Today I have begotten you” does NOT have to referrence any particular point in time……such as “when Jesus was raised”.

In other words, God could have told Jesus “Today I have begotten you” before all the ages, and Jesus just repeated that decree millions of years later when he was placed as King on Zion by his God.

And thanks to Micah 5:2, we know that the word “DAY” can be used figuratively.  So therefore, I have solid scriptural support for my claim that Jesus WAS begotten before all the ages and that there is no reason whatsoever to think it was a “figurative begetting” just because of the word “DAY” and referrence to his being placed as King on Zion.

peace and love,
mike

[JustAskin]

Mike,
It is amusing but sad, sad but amusing, amusingly sad, sadly amusing…how desparate desires develop desparate decrees.

What a tortuous description you give. Should anyone else try to understand what you wrote. Has anyone else found this ideology to be Scriptural?

How many months have you been at your attempt to prove the unproveable and yet, not one other has upheld your claim. Does this not suggest something to you?
Mike, did you pray for Holy Spirited revelation? No?, I could have guessed, but yet I didn't have to because I know.
Mike, do you believe in God? Do you believe you can become his Son, and He your Father? Mike, do you pray to Him through Jesus Christ?

Mike, you have become your own god through your own belief in your own doctrine…the doctrine of Mikeboll64.

[mikeboll64]

Hi JA,

So you can't refute my understanding logically?  Didn't think you could.  

Btw, my understanding is confirmed by the early church fathers Eusebius and Ignatius. Not to mention Kathi, Georg, Irene, t8, and Pierre.  So “Yes”, others DO understand my “ideology” as scriptural…….even if it hasn't been shown to you yet.

Why don't you take a shot at SCRIPTURALLY refuting it, instead of the same lame “I'm right and you're wrong” comments you've been making for months with nothing to back them up?  

mike

[Author]

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