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Kathi, see me in the “Who to worship” thread Nick started. I'm answering you and SF simultaneously in two threads.
mike
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 22 2010,20:26) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 21 2010,17:43) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 22 2010,15:47) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 20 2010,10:06) Kathy [QYes, I know what treating the flock with tenderness means…good grief, Pierre.
UOTE]then why you do not explain it to me??
Pierre
Pierre,
Think of how a good shepherd would treat his sheep. He would protect them from evil. He would know the difference between evil and good and would promote the good influences. He would also feed them good food, and provide shelter if need be. He would go out and look for the lost sheep and rejoice when he found it. He would represent Christ and not satan to his flock. He would not belittle his sheep, or talk badly about one sheep to another sheep and would not shepherd them with a desire to condem them. Much of that would apply to 'people' sheep.
Does that help?
Kathylook at scriptures ,all are not what they say they are;
What kind of sheep you talking about ,and what shepherd?
Ac 4:2 They were greatly disturbed because the apostles were teaching the people and proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection of the dead
Ac 4:5 The next day the rulers, elders and teachers of the law met in Jerusalem.
Ac 4:6 Annas the high priest was there, and so were Caiaphas, John, Alexander and the other men of the high priest’s family.
Ac 4:7 They had Peter and John brought before them and began to question them: “By what power or what name did you do this?”
Ac 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Spirit, said to them: “Rulers and elders of the people!
Ac 4:9 If we are being called to account today for an act of kindness shown to a cripple and are asked how he was healed,
Ac 4:10 then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.
Ac 4:11 He is
“ ‘the stone you builders rejected,
which has become the capstone.’
Ac 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.”
Ac 4:13 When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinaryAc 4:19 But Peter and John replied, “Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God’s sight to obey you rather than God
Ac 5:1 Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also sold a piece of property.
Ac 5:2 With his wife’s full knowledge he kept back part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the apostles’ feet.Ac 5:17 Then the high priest and all his associates, who were members of the party of the Sadducees, were filled with jealousy.
Ac 5:18 They arrested the apostles and put them in the public jail.1Co 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power
1Co 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1Co 1:19 For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”1Co 1:21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
1Co 1:22 Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom,1Co 2:6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing
1Co 2:8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
1Co 2:9 However, as it is written:
“No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no mind has conceived
what God has prepared for those who love him”—
1Co 2:10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit.–witch of those are the good shepherd, and the true sheep?
Pierre[/quote]
Pierre,
The sheep that I am talking about are the Christians, the followers of Christ. The shepherd that I am talking about is the one called by God to shepherd the flock.There are going to be wolves that are imitating sheep and there are going to be deceptive and uncalled by God, people acting as shepherds…i.e. Jim Jones.
We need to have a discerning spirit to know the difference.
KathyI have seen mike answer most of what i wanted to say,this is good ,
i would like to add ,if you go and try to think you will advance your knowledge by creating new answers to old questions ,and then, end up only in a opinion,you have moved yourself backward,
the truth lays in scriptures we have to look for,but you can not understand the truth of God unless you are truthful in your hearth with God,(this means 24/7)
if not God will show you nothing and so your ignorance will spill out in the face of those who do have that understanding,so now you know ,
Pierre
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 21 2010,22:20) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 22 2010,13:26) There are going to be wolves that are imitating sheep and there are going to be deceptive and uncalled by God, people acting as shepherds…i.e. Jim Jones. We need to have a discerning spirit to know the difference.
Hi Kathi,You mention Jim Jones. He didn't hide his wolve's clothing very well. Jesus said even Satan can masquerade as an angel of light.
That's why the ONLY way we can tell is by fruits. Even servants of Satan can give their lives to further his purposes, right? Like maybe Jim Jones. Can you imagine how many people turned away from Christianity because of the Guyana tragedy? Boom! Satan won one. He got people thinking we were all nutjobs.
That's how I see some of these men you quote. I see them as Satan's tools masquerading as men of light. And some of them went so far as to die “for Jesus” like Jim Jones “did”, to further Satan's agenda.
I can't claim this as a fact or judge any of them, but the one thing I'm certain about is that if they are teaching something other than what is taught in scripture…..something's wrong with them.
Aren't these “good, God fearing men who love Jesus with all their heart” the same one's who worship Mary as the “Mother of God”? Are these the same ones who worship God with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from Him? Are they like the Pharisees, teaching the doctrines of men over the words of scripture? What did Jesus say about that?
mike
Mike,
I don't think that you can say the early church fathers were Mary worshipers at all. I read about one that mentioned that Mary was the mother of God but I read the context of more of what he said. He was saying it in light of her child being 100% god and 100% man. He wasn't saying that she caused the 100% god part but that she still gave birth to a son that was 100% god as well as man.As in anything you read, you have to try to sense the spirit in which it is written and use great discernment.
So you admit that you see the men that I quote as satan's tools…the early church fathers…just like that, they are all satan's tools. Of course you can't say that as a fact but that is your guess?? Even Eusebius? So, I suppose you think that you are not satan's tool but that I am? Is that what you think? Can you prove this?
Do you think that you know and understand all things clearly…probably not, right? Maybe there is insight that you will someday learn and will change some of your present convictions? Prov 3:5-6 Do not lean on your own understanding Mike. It might cause you to fall on your face in the future. Just saying.
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 22 2010,21:40) Pierre,
Who are you to talk against opinion? You just posted one of yours.
Kathyshow me that what i say in not scriptural.
Pierre
Hi Mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 21 2010,20:46)
Sorry Kathi, but Keith brought me into this post.
Ha Ha, I knew you couldn’t keep your nose out of it, and I figured you wouldn’t give me time to answer your last post, but since you insist then I will just pick up here.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 21 2010,17:15) Just as I thought, no scriptures to back your assumption, but simply conjecture. Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 21 2010,20:46)
As opposed to your “facts”? What do you know about the beginning of time or whether or not God dwells within it or not?
Listen to yourself Mike, you said…“What do you know ABOUT THE BEGINNING OF TIME or whether or not God dwells within it or not?”
You see that word beginning? We read about the beginning in Genesis 1 and John 1:1-3 and 1 John 1:1-2, and we also read about the beginning of “DAYS” when “DAY ONE” was created in Gen 1:5. Before the beginning there was nothing but God because all things were created through or by him and for him which started at the beginning. Those are the facts that I stand on and not conjecture.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 21 2010,17:15) Before time there were no days but only eternity. Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 21 2010,20:46)
So explain how “days” could have come through Jesus if his origins were only “from days of antiquity”? Again, it doesn't say Jesus' origins were from BEFORE “days of antiquity”.
You see there you go again, the same questions expecting a different answer so now you want me to chase you down the rabbit hole again. Its like you never even read the post.How many times already have I refuted your point by showing from the NET and the many translations that do not translate the word “mowtsa'ah” as beginning. Here I will list them for you again…
AAT – You, Bethlehem [Ephrathah],
too small to be one of Judah's clans,
from you there will come out for Me,
One Who Is to Rule Israel
who real comings are from the eternal past.
AB – Whose going s forth have been from of old, from ancient days — eternity.
ASV – whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting.
DHB – whose goings forth are from of old, from the days of eternity.
EBR – Whose comings forth have been from of old from the days of age-past time.
GW – His origins go back to the distant past, to days long ago.
HBME – Who brought you, long ago, in old times from the East;
HBRV – whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting.
IB – and His goings forth have been from old, from the days of eternity.
IV – whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
KJV – whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
LB – who is alive from everlasting ages past.
LBP – whose goings forth have been predicted from of old, from eternity.
LXX – and his goings forth have been from the beginning, even from eternity.
MNT – one whose origin is of old,
of long descent.
MRB – whose goings forth are from old, from ancient days.
NAB – Whose origin is from of old,
from ancient times.
NAS – His goings forth are from long ago,
From the days of eternity.
NBV – His goings forth are from of old, from days of eternity.
NCV – He comes from very old times,
from days long ago.
NEB – one whose roots are far back in the past, in days gone by.
NJB – whose origins go back to the distant past,
to the days of old.
NJPS – One whose origin is from of old,
From ancient times.
NKJ – Whose goings forth are from of old,
From everlasting.
NLT – one whose origins are from the distant past.
NLV – His coming was planned long ago, from the beginning.
NWT – whose origin is from early times, from the days of time indefinite.
REB – one whose origins are far back in the past, in ancient times.
RSV – whose origin is from of old,
from ancient days.
SBK – And his origin is from of old,
From ages long past.
SGAT – Whose origins are from of old,
From ancient days.
SNB – whose comings forth have been from of old, from the days of age-past time.
SSBE – whose origin is from an ancient era, from ages of eternity.
TDB – whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
TEV – whose family line goes back to ancient times.
TJB – his origin goes back to the distant past,
to the days of old.
YLR – And his comings forth are of old,
From the days of antiquity.The NIV translates it…
NIV – whose origins are from of old, from ancient times. With the footnotes…
Footnote: origins: “HEBREW GOINGS OUT.
Footnote: ancient times: Or from days of eternity.Even the NWT doesn’t translate it “beginning”, yet you insist that the word means Jesus had a beginning. So I will ask you to give me one example where the word “mowtsa'ah” is translated “beginning” where it obvious it is a beginning. HA HA. I have already looked. Please don’t come back and tell me that Jesus was a “latrine”.
Once again the NET says…
Heb “his goings out.” The term may refer to the ruler’s origins (cf. NAB, NIV, NRSV, NLT) or to his activities.
I think the YLT says it well…
And thou, Beth-Lehem Ephratah, Little to be among the chiefs of Judah! From thee to Me he cometh forth — to be ruler in Israel, And his comings forth [are] of old, From the days of antiquity.
Surely we can see that the Lords goings forth are from even the beginning when he took part in the creation of all things.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 21 2010,17:15) That’s why the scriptures say “in the beginning God…”. Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 21 2010,20:46) But “in the beginning”, God also created the heavens and the earth AND ANGELS SHOUTED FOR JOY because they were already created. There are more than one use of “in the beginning” Keith. How can you be sure the one you quote means what you think it does?
What are you saying Mike? Are you saying that Gen 1:1, John 1:1, and 1 John 1:1 are not the beginning of all things. What happened to this scripture…All t
hings came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. John 1:3Not only did John say “ALL THINGS CAME INTO BEING (BY OR) THROUGH HIM, but in case someone misunderstood him he says…
APART FROM HIM NOTHING CAME INTO BEING THAT HAS COME INTO BEING. and that includes the light and the waters which proceeded the days.
That’s one of the points you just kind of skipped over.
Were the Angels rejoicing before Gen 1:1 or after?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 21 2010,17:15) Genesis 1:5 says the FIRST DAY was created. So how can Pss 2:6, 7 be speaking of Jesus begetting before time? Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 21 2010,20:46) The same exact way Micah 5:2 is speaking of it.
Really Mike? Then tell my why Psalms 2:6, 7 does not have the word “`owlam” in it?And for the umpteenth time the context of the verse is speaking of his resurrection because the decree was made after he was set on his Holy Hill.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 21 2010,17:15) Like Mike you want it so bad to mean that Jesus was born from God, God begetting God. Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 21 2010,20:46)
And what particular scripture says it DOESN'T mean Jesus was born from God?
Does there have to be a scripture to debunk a scripture? How about John 1:1-3 that says the Word was with God and was God in the beginning. And…All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. John 1:3
And don’t forget.. APART FROM HIM NOTHING CAME INTO BEING THAT HAS COME INTO BEING. which means that he did not come through himself, and John had already given the disclaimer that it wasn’t including the Father and Jesus when he says “the same was in the beginning with God” in verse 2. So if Jesus came into being then John would be lying wouldn’t he?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 21 2010,20:46) It's not just 2:7 Keith. There's Col 1:15, Rev 3:14, Proverbs 8:22, Micah 5:2.
Not at all mike. Those scriptures have already been debunked by Jack and myself. It is just your own interpretation of them that is flawed.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 21 2010,20:46)
That's a lot of scriptures you have to “rewrite” to avoid Jesus having a beginning.
Please, show me a scripture that is absolutely clear that Jesus had a beginning. Micah 5:2 isn’t it and that would be as close as you could come. Ha.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 21 2010,20:46) Not to mention every single use of the title “Son” or the words “only begotten”. Come on Keith. Would you have us believe that when two of the three persons of God were deciding that one of them had to empty himself and be flesh for a while, the most unconfusing titles they could come up with for themselves were “Father” and “Son”? And just to confuse us more, they threw in “begotten” and “origin” and “of creation” and “first of God's works”, etc?
Mike it is obvious that you will believe what you want to believe. You have been arguing that Jesus is a created being with Kathi and John 1:1-3 completely debunks that because “NOTHING CAME INTO BEING WITHOUT HIM”. You say Jesus who is the “Only Begotten Son of God” is “a god” in the same sense that satan is. So I am not surprised that you will not accept the different meanings of the words you mention.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 21 2010,17:15) But like Mike you are refusing to see that Jesus begetting in Pss 2:6, 7 was called upon by the disciples in reference to his resurrection when he sat on the Holy hill of Zion or the right hand of the Father. Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 21 2010,20:46) Keith, you just posted last night about the blood of Jesus. You pointed to the scriptures that indicate that everything on earth is a “lessor copy” of what is in heaven. How do you know there isn't a “Mt Zion” in heaven? How do you know that Jesus hasn't been reigning from the heavenly Mt. Zion for billions of years? He was already the “King of the Jews” before he was raised from the dead, right?
Wow Mike how far will you carry this to deny the truth. Mt Zion is the type of Gods dwelling place in “Israel”, that place and Israel was not created until after the beginning in Genesis 1:1. Get real man.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 21 2010,20:46) Furthermore, Paul speaks of a promise to the forefathers being fulfilled by the raising of Jesus from the dead. When did God ever promise the forefathers that he would “appoint” an “only begotten Son”?
Psalms 2, read the entire Psalm Mike, it was you that denied the Psalm was speaking about David and that the entire Psalm was about Jesus. Context Mike.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 21 2010,20:46) I've told you and told you that Paul's first “mission” after being blinded by Jesus was to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God. It is for THIS reason, not the “today”, that he quotes Psalm 2:7. He is saying that Jesus is the one that 2:7 was talking about. This man Jesus that you crucified is the Son that God begot so long ago, as attested to by the 2nd Psalm.
No Mike that is not what the context bears out…“We tell you the good news: “What God promised our fathers he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. “As it is written in the second Psalm: “You are my Son; today I have become your Father.* ” Acts 13:33
This is what the NET says Mike…
127sn You are my Son. The key to how the quotation is used is the naming of Jesu
s as “Son” to the Father. The language is that of kingship, as Ps 2 indicates. Here is the promise about what the ultimate Davidic heir would be.128tn Grk “I have begotten you.” The traditional translation for γεγέννηκα (gegennhka, “begotten”) is misleading to the modern English reader because it is no longer in common use. Today one speaks of “fathering” a child in much the same way speakers of English formerly spoke of “begetting a child.”
Do you see that Mike?
I am tired. I would go ahead and get into Heb 1:5 and 5:5 but I will touch on that later.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 21 2010,17:15) Was there days before “Day One”? Prove it by scriptures or else admit that it is just conjecture or your opinion.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Sep. 21 2010,20:46) Go ahead and refute Kathi and my understanding of 2:7 in light of Micah 5:2 Keith.
I just did. The two verses speak of entirely different events and structurally are not the same. The word `owlam” is not mentioned next to days is it Mike?I am glad you pointed out Psalms 2 Mike for it completely debunks the God begetting a God theory.
WJ
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 21 2010,22:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 21 2010,17:24) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 21 2010,16:32) There had to be some sense of time before creation, otherwise nothing could be before something else.
Why? There was nothing before the beginning of all things but God, was there? If so then Eternity was without time. God does not live in the confinements of Time. He is an eternal being who did not need time or days.WJ
Keith,
If God was 'before' something, which He was, then there had to be a time before time, which is often called eternity.You say that God does not live in the confinements of time. Maybe time exists simply because God exists. Time is not something tangible or created. Maybe time is simply part of existing.
God and eternity automatically go together, right? How could there be God and not eternity? Eternity means infinite TIME.
In Revelations there is going to be a TIME without darkness we are told, right? There is going to be something called DAYTIME though, right? Has the eternal realm ever been without the glory of God, if not, then eternal daytime would exist because that is the result of the presence of the glory of God…illumination.
23 And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. 25 In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed;
[The term 'eternal being' requires a sense of TIME, the kind that has no beginning or end.
KathiAgain as I thought no scripture that says “days” or time existed before Gen 1:1 the beginning.
Give me a scripture that says that there were days before Gen 1:5 when the “First day” was created.
Revelation is the New Heaven and the New Earth.
Show me there were days before the beginning!
WJ
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 21 2010,22:09) You say that God does not live in the confinements of time. Maybe time exists simply because God exists. Time is not something tangible or created. Maybe time is simply part of existing.
Well if that is true then the terms “time” and “eternity” are the same. Then the terms beginning and end have no meaning right?Popycock!
WJ
all
Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word,THIS IS NOT THE BIGINING OF THE DAY,THIS IS BEFORE ANYTHING WAS DONE
and the Word was with God, HERE THE wORD IS BESIDE GOD
and the Word was God. WELL HE WAS MADE TO CREATE SO HE WILLBE GOD TO WHATEVER WOULD BE CREATED,
HE IS ALSO THEY ONLYONE WHO HAVE SEEN THE FATHER.Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.
Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
is this similar because Christ told us that he will share his place with his disciples'
Ge 1:1 In the beginning (THE WORD) God created the heavens and the earth.THIS IS AFTER THE WORD WAS CREATED BECAUSE ANYTHING ELSE WAS CREATED WITHOUT HIM
THERE ARE NO DAYS KNOWN TO US BEFORE THE BEGINING ,TIME ONLY STARTS AFTER OR DURING THE THIRD DAY OF REMODLING THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH;
AND THE TERM “Ge 1:19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day”. IS NOT A DAY OF 24 HOURS NIETHER, BUT A AMOUNTH OF WORKS DONE ;AND THEN EXPRESSED THAT WAY;JUST LOOK AT THE UNIVERS AND WONDER.
THE TERM ETERNITY IS NOT TIME ,IT MEANS NO TIME, WEN GOD USES THAT TERM UNLESS YOU KNOW HIS PLANS IN DETAIL YOU COULD NOT FIGURE THIS ONE OUT,
IN SOME CASSES LIKE THE THRONE OF DAVIS WILL BE FOREVER WE UNDERSTAND THAT HIS KING IS NOW CHRIST THE SON OF GOD,THAT S THE ANSWER.Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,NOW THIS DOES NOT SAY THAT CRIST IS A ANGEL;
Heb 1:6 And again, when God brings his firstborn — into the world, THIS CONFIRM THAT CRIST IS NOT AN ANGEL BUT THE FIRST BORNHeb 5:7 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.
Heb 5:8 Although he was a son,XX he learned obedience from what he suffered
Heb 5:9 and, once made perfect XXX, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
Heb 5:10 and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.THIS IS MY UNDERSTANDING
i only use capital letters to make a separation of what i say and verses,so do not be angry
Pierre
Whoever !
Time often has no real meaning,
A weeks punishment boredom or misery can seem as an eternity…time drags ! A weeks enjoyment can go by in no time !
God has no need for time, with all of eternity, there is no beginning no end, no in between. Only we are time limited.
In the beginning was the word, there was only a beginning on earth.
Can anyone say where space ends and where it begins ?
Can anyone say they have seen God ?
If life and the world has a beginning, it has to have an end.
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the first and the last”…..”' I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star!”
Just out of curiosity, how come it says Rev 1:8..
'I am the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and end, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is coming — the Almighty.'Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 22 2010,00:53) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 21 2010,22:09) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 21 2010,17:24) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 21 2010,16:32) There had to be some sense of time before creation, otherwise nothing could be before something else.
Why? There was nothing before the beginning of all things but God, was there? If so then Eternity was without time. God does not live in the confinements of Time. He is an eternal being who did not need time or days.WJ
Keith,
If God was 'before' something, which He was, then there had to be a time before time, which is often called eternity.You say that God does not live in the confinements of time. Maybe time exists simply because God exists. Time is not something tangible or created. Maybe time is simply part of existing.
God and eternity automatically go together, right? How could there be God and not eternity? Eternity means infinite TIME.
In Revelations there is going to be a TIME without darkness we are told, right? There is going to be something called DAYTIME though, right? Has the eternal realm ever been without the glory of God, if not, then eternal daytime would exist because that is the result of the presence of the glory of God…illumination.
23 And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb. 24 The nations will walk by its light, and the kings of the earth will bring their glory into it. 25 In the daytime (for there will be no night there) its gates will never be closed;
[The term 'eternal being' requires a sense of TIME, the kind that has no beginning or end.
KathiAgain as I thought no scripture that says “days” or time existed before Gen 1:1 the beginning.
Give me a scripture that says that there were days before Gen 1:5 when the “First day” was created.
Revelation is the New Heaven and the New Earth.
Show me there were days before the beginning!
WJ
Keith,
There was time before earth came into being and it was called eternity. Eternity will always exist as long as God exists and therefore time will exist.Here is a definition of time:
The system of those sequential relations that any event has to any other, as past, present, or future; indefinite and continuous duration regarded as that in which events succeed one another.
And yes, beginning and end have meaning because of the existence of time.
The scriptural phrase 'from the DAYS of eternity' tells you that there is a sense of time during eternity. If there were no time, there would be no sequence of before and after or during. Our world exists during eternity. It has a beginning and an end and therefore does not last eternally but life exists eternally as long as God is.
I suppose this all depends on your definition of time.
Quote (shimmer @ Sep. 22 2010,03:21) Whoever ! Time often has no real meaning,
A weeks punishment boredom or misery can seem as an eternity…time drags ! A weeks enjoyment can go by in no time !
God has no need for time, with all of eternity, there is no beginning no end, no in between. Only we are time limited.
In the beginning was the word, there was only a beginning on earth.
Can anyone say where space ends and where it begins ?
Can anyone say they have seen God ?
If life and the world has a beginning, it has to have an end.
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the first and the last”…..”' I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star!”
Just out of curiosity, how come it says Rev 1:8..
'I am the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and end, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is coming — the Almighty.'
Shimmer,Quote ust out of curiosity, how come it says Rev 1:8..
'I am the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and end, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is coming — the Almighty.'This could simply mean that He exists, He existed, and will exist. He is the great 'I AM.”
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 22 2010,08:49) And yes, beginning and end have meaning because of the existence of time.
KathiExactly, and if you take away the beginning and the end then you have no time but only eternity.
Once again…
“SHOW ME A SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS THERE WERE DAYS OR TIME BEFORE THE BEGINNING OR DAY ONE“
WJ
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 22 2010,08:49) If there were no time, there would be no sequence of before and after or during.
KathiBut there was no “Before” in eternity past was there?
How could there be something before “eternity”?
That would be like saying there was something before God who is eternal, right?
Time started in the beginning.
WJ
Quote (shimmer @ Sep. 23 2010,02:21) Whoever ! Time often has no real meaning,
A weeks punishment boredom or misery can seem as an eternity…time drags ! A weeks enjoyment can go by in no time !
God has no need for time, with all of eternity, there is no beginning no end, no in between. Only we are time limited.
In the beginning was the word, there was only a beginning on earth.
Can anyone say where space ends and where it begins ?
Can anyone say they have seen God ?
If life and the world has a beginning, it has to have an end.
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the first and the last”…..”' I am the root and the offspring of David, the bright and morning star!”
Just out of curiosity, how come it says Rev 1:8..
'I am the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and end, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is coming — the Almighty.'
shimmerthere is no beginning for God the father,so no time,no past ,all is off God.
so the beginning starts with THE WORD(Jesus)this is his first creation,Christ is the only creation made directly by God ,this is why he is the only one that can be called the son of God.
the fact that he is also called son of Man is because he became man ,so now Rev 1;8'I am the Alpha and the Omega, beginning and end, saith the Lord, who is, and who was, and who is coming — the Almighty.'
the truth is ;all was of God until Satan came to Adam and Eve were sin enter the world, SO NOW IT IS NO LONGER “ALL OF GOD.
SO THE PLAN OF GOD,is to bring back all things under himself,
to do just that he as appointed Jesus Christ the WORD to do this job sort of,
so even do God can not change of being God so he is and will remain the ultimate “alpha and omega the beginning and the end.
but God has giving the work to accomplish to Christ ,since the beginning ,and it will be Christ who will turn all things to God at the end,so that it is all of God just as it was in the beginning,so Christ also can be called the alpha and omega the beginning and the end even the almighty,it does never change the position of God the father.
and who was, and who is coming — the Almighty.' this I believe is Christ because God never was but Christ died for us,
and he is also to come back to finish his works
God always is from eternity to eternity,not so with anybody else.Pierre
all
in reality there is no present;only past and future, the present = past and future in a frame of time
Pierre
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 22 2010,10:38) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 22 2010,08:49) If there were no time, there would be no sequence of before and after or during.
KathiBut there was no “Before” in eternity past was there?
How could there be something before “eternity”?
That would be like saying there was something before God who is eternal, right?
Time started in the beginning.
WJ
Keith,
There was time before the beginning of the earth otherwise the earth would be always existent. That time is referred to as eternity past and there are several references to eternity past in scriptures.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 22 2010,10:34) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 22 2010,08:49) And yes, beginning and end have meaning because of the existence of time.
KathiExactly, and if you take away the beginning and the end then you have no time but only eternity.
Once again…
“SHOW ME A SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS THERE WERE DAYS OR TIME BEFORE THE BEGINNING OR DAY ONE“
WJ
Keith
Any scripture that speaks of eternity in a past sense tells you there was time before the beginning. Eternity is infinite time.Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 22 2010,15:17) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 22 2010,10:38) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 22 2010,08:49) If there were no time, there would be no sequence of before and after or during.
KathiBut there was no “Before” in eternity past was there?
How could there be something before “eternity”?
That would be like saying there was something before God who is eternal, right?
Time started in the beginning.
WJ
Keith,
There was time before the beginning of the earth otherwise the earth would be always existent. That time is referred to as eternity past and there are several references to eternity past in scriptures.
KathiWhere are the scriptures that reference time as eternity past or before the beginning?
Why don't you admit that there are none and that you are speaking only conjecture and your opinion?
WJ
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