- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 21 2014,13:39) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 21 2014,08:31) T. Just turkey talk.
Anyone can do that,but you are the best.wakeup.
wwe are talking about if God foresees ,my scriptures says by anticipation IF they (people of Israel) are sinning and plaid in their favor ,
read carefully of what Solomon says ;and understand ,
sorry for the raw mead ;Mike can do better
the reason for Solomon foreseeing is right in those verses .
T.Have you seen a fortune teller?
They work with spirits.
If they can tell the future;why not God?
Why should God be less than spirits?wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 21 2014,08:54) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 21 2014,13:39) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 21 2014,08:31) T. Just turkey talk.
Anyone can do that,but you are the best.wakeup.
wwe are talking about if God foresees ,my scriptures says by anticipation IF they (people of Israel) are sinning and plaid in their favor ,
read carefully of what Solomon says ;and understand ,
sorry for the raw mead ;Mike can do better
the reason for Solomon foreseeing is right in those verses .
T.Have you seen a fortune teller?
They work with spirits.
If they can tell the future;why not God?
Why should God be less than spirits?wakeup.
wtwo ways it can be done ;1)with the help of the demons
2) and with sweet talk of probabilities
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 21 2014,15:04) w and if it is with demon there foreseen is more ore less two days
T.If satan can tell the future;
why not God?wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 20 2014,19:58) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 19 2014,16:19) 1. Regarding that Mike. I know ahead of time, when my sons become teenagers, that at some point and to some degree they will depart the ways they have been taught when finding their own way in the world. 2. I also think that even a man could have guessed that the Jews would come under the influence of other gods from time to time.
3. I think the thing about God here is that he knew it would happen, but it is almost part of his plan in that this allows him to prove that he is the true God.
t8,1. There is no way you can KNOW that your sons will rebel. For all we know, Christ could come tomorrow, and your sons won't even have that chance. Or your sons might surprise you and become priests at age 17.
The best you can do is make an “educated GUESS” that they will rebel. And when I asked Wm if God made an “educated GUESS” that the Israelites would rebel, he got mad at me.
SAY WHAT!!!! When did I get mad at anyone? (other then right now)..
Wm
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 20 2014,18:16) again even Solomon start with an “if” and so could foreseen their sins……..
Pierre,I would never use a scripture that says, “IF you do this, I will do that” as a proof that God can foresee future events.
So you posting scriptures where the word “IF” is used doesn't eliminate the scriptures where God foretold future events WITHOUT using the word “IF”.
Agreed?
Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 21 2014,01:08) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 20 2014,19:58)
t8,1. There is no way you can KNOW that your sons will rebel. For all we know, Christ could come tomorrow, and your sons won't even have that chance. Or your sons might surprise you and become priests at age 17.
The best you can do is make an “educated GUESS” that they will rebel. And when I asked Wm if God made an “educated GUESS” that the Israelites would rebel, he got mad at me.
SAY WHAT!!!! When did I get mad at anyone? (other then right now)..
Wm
From page 8 of this thread:Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 29 2014,14:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 28 2014,20:45) Okay Wm, I'll add a third possibility to it.
3. God was using something akin to human logical deduction (perhaps an “educated guess”), and was therefore PRETTY SURE that the Israelites would do those things soon in the future.
Mike,Option #3 is worded in a poor manner to ridicule the possibility of the idea I'm postulating. No, God does not use “human logical deduction”
If you feel you must be snide I would rather you bother someone else……….
Did you say those things to me because you were HAPPY with me, Wm?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 23 2014,00:46) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 20 2014,18:16) again even Solomon start with an “if” and so could foreseen their sins……..
Pierre,I would never use a scripture that says, “IF you do this, I will do that” as a proof that God can foresee future events.
So you posting scriptures where the word “IF” is used doesn't eliminate the scriptures where God foretold future events WITHOUT using the word “IF”.
Agreed?
Mike
Ps 147:4 He determines the number of the stars
and calls them each by name.
Ps 147:5 Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
his understanding has no limit.
Ps 147:6 The LORD sustains the humble
but casts the wicked to the ground.Ps 147:10 His pleasure is not in the strength of the horse,
nor his delight in the legs of a man;
Ps 147:11 the LORD delights in those who fear him,
who put their hope in his unfailing love.Ps 147:19 He has revealed his word to Jacob,
his laws and decrees to Israel.
Ps 147:20 He has done this for no other nation;
they do not know his laws.Ps 148:14 He has raised up for his people a horn,
the praise of all his saints,
of Israel, the people close to his heart.Ps 149:6 May the praise of God be in their mouths
and a double-edged sword in their hands,
Ps 149:7 to inflict vengeance on the nations
and punishment on the peoples,
Ps 149:8 to bind their kings with fetters,
their nobles with shackles of iron,
Ps 149:9 to carry out the sentence written against them.
This is the glory of all his saints.God is the mighty one without equal ,and so does as he pleases ;he as plan(s) lay out that no one can change but himself ,even though sometime hey does change them ;at a direct moment ,like when he want to destroy the nation of Israel and that Moses intervene ,all prophecies are not some thing that God ,goes and foresees in the future and tell men but they are “knowledge given to certain man for others to receive in due time and then to understand ,which understanding is given then to those men ,about events that he himself as made to occur and part of his plan(s)
God does not, as to foreseen his own making future history ,look what is said in all of Revelation so many things are describe in it and yet so many men have come up with their own version of the visions ,
yet none as come today like Daniel did in his time when all the wise men of Babylon where to be killed ,he prayed with his friends,and God granted him the understanding ;of the statue ;
my reasons for those scriptures above is to show you that God's power as no limits ;and it is not a bare hand full of sand or a can of worm that is capable of changing anything to Gods plans
Pr 8:23 I was appointed from eternity,
from the beginning, before the world began.
Isa 40:21 Do you not know?
Have you not heard?
Has it not been told you from the beginning?
Have you not understood since the earth was founded?
Isa 41:4 Who has done this and carried it through,
calling forth the generations from the beginning?
I, the LORD—with the first of them
and with the last—I am he.”“,” the LORD says.”..Isa 41:26 Who told of this from the beginning, so we could know,
or beforehand, so we could say, ‘He was right’?
No one told of this,
no one foretold it,
no one heard any words from you.
Isa 46:10 I make known the end from the beginning,
from ancient times, what is still to come.
I say: My purpose will stand,Pierre,
None of the scriptures you have EVER posted on this subject CHANGE the fact that God told Moses what the Israelites would soon do – and He DIDN'T use the word “IF”.
None of those scriptures change the fact that there is NO WAY John could have FORESEEN the events in Revelation unless the God who showed him those sights could also FORESEE them.
So you are continually posting PAGES of various scriptures to me – none of which CHANGE anything.
You can post a THOUSAND scriptures where God says, “IF you do this, I will do that”……… and none of them will change a thing.
You can make the claim that God is all-powerful, and can cause the future to be whatever He wants it to be a THOUSAND times…………… and none of those thousand claims will ever change a thing.
Do you understand this?
Listen carefully: It is abundantly CLEAR that John SAW future events unfolding before his eyes in Revelation. And there is NO WAY that God could have SHOWED those things to John if God Himself was unable to also foresee them.
Add to that the fact that we know from scripture that DEMONS can foretell the future also. And since DEMONS are NOT all-powerful, and therefore CANNOT force the future to be what they want it to be, they are obviously foretelling future events because they can FORESEE certain future events.
Get it? If they are foretelling the future, but they are NOT the ones causing those outcomes, then they are able to FORESEE the future.
And you are asking us to believe that DEMONS can do what JEHOVAH cannot.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 23 2014,23:35) Pierre, None of the scriptures you have EVER posted on this subject CHANGE the fact that God told Moses what the Israelites would soon do – and He DIDN'T use the word “IF”.
None of those scriptures change the fact that there is NO WAY John could have FORESEEN the events in Revelation unless the God who showed him those sights could also FORESEE them.
So you are continually posting PAGES of various scriptures to me – none of which CHANGE anything.
You can post a THOUSAND scriptures where God says, “IF you do this, I will do that”……… and none of them will change a thing.
You can make the claim that God is all-powerful, and can cause the future to be whatever He wants it to be a THOUSAND times…………… and none of those thousand claims will ever change a thing.
Do you understand this?
Listen carefully: It is abundantly CLEAR that John SAW future events unfolding before his eyes in Revelation. And there is NO WAY that God could have SHOWED those things to John if God Himself was unable to also foresee them.
Add to that the fact that we know from scripture that DEMONS can foretell the future also. And since DEMONS are NOT all-powerful, and therefore CANNOT force the future to be what they want it to be, they are obviously foretelling future events because they can FORESEE certain future events.
Get it? If they are foretelling the future, but they are NOT the ones causing those outcomes, then they are able to FORESEE the future.
And you are asking us to believe that DEMONS can do what JEHOVAH cannot.
MikeJohn ad vision of things that was, and that we're to come ,to John it is fore knowledge but from God it is knowledge that he shares with John,
god tells from the beginning what will be to the end long before it happen that is why he is God almighty ,no if,s there
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 23 2014,12:22) Mike John had vision of things that was to come………
Pierre,That is simply another way of saying, “John was able to SEE future events.”
And “SEEING FUTURE EVENTS” is called “FORESEEING”.
John could not FORESEE those things unless the God who showed him those things could also FORESEE them.
What now? Don't you know that “vision” means “SEE”?
If John “had a VISION of things to come” – as you say – then John was able to SEE things to come.
Do you understand that?
And if John was able to SEE things that hadn't yet happened, John was able to FORESEE those things. Because “FORESEE” means “being able to see things that haven't yet happened”.
Are you still with me?
So my question is: How could God enable JOHN to foresee things that God Himself was UNABLE to foresee?
mike
No,God does not foresees his own plan he made it happen ,what John saw, is not the reality of things detailed ,but the things that we're happening around him and the things that were to happen ,just like Daniel and other prophets ,received visions trough the spirit in an allegorical way ,just as Christ spooked with parables to the people but we know that they are extremely meaningful if you understand them,
Saying that God as to foresee what John the men is foreseeing this mean that heather of them ad knowledge prior to the event ,and this can only be true in John ,s case not in God case because he as full knowledge of his own plans ,
Mike
Many scriptures are saying that God ,gives ,vision,tell,and make the prophets write either what they see or what he tell them ,in all those cases it shows that God knows the things what he says,or shows ,because in many cases he says that ,That Is What He is Going to do ,that is what prophecy is all about to me,telling ahead of time what will happen later as a witness to his own words,for his glory,
God let some man foresee and sometime understand what he is make them either see or write,of what he will do now or later
So I still say NO God does not foresee his own plans ,his words come out of his mouth and do not come back to him without effect ,
Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 19 2014,07:44) Marty,
Are those scriptures a proclamation of a future event foreseen, or are they statements of a God whose character, knowledge, and power will bring them to pass.Just searching for truth – Wm
Hi William:I think both in some sense because unless He had intervened in the affairs of mankind none of us would be saved, right. He gave His Only Begotten Son.
Therefore, he influenced the outcome, but He had for-seen the precise time that HE would send His Son into the world. The scriptures state that Jesus was “fore-ordained” from the creation of the world.
But his will was that all men come to repentance, and not all will. If He had the power to over everything, to bring His will to pass. Wouldn't all men have been saved? Yet, he has for-seen that they would not believe the gospel.
He has the power to influence mankind's decisions of whether or not we want to serve Him, but we have the freedom to make that choice. Some decided not to serve Him although He did everything in His power to save them.
I know that you are seeking for the truth, and that is what we should all do.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (terraricca @ Feb. 24 2014,20:38) Saying that God as to foresee what John the men is foreseeing this mean that heather of them ad knowledge prior to the event…………
Is THAT what's been holding you back, Pierre?Are you thinking that God's ability to foresee what's going to happen means that God is like a fortune teller with a crystal ball, and some OTHER magic or spirit is SHOWING God the things to come?
No Pierre. God can foresee BY HIS OWN POWER. If God KNOWS He is going to cause it to rain in Memphis on Monday, then God can look ahead and actually FORESEE that rain coming down – if He chooses to do so.
Your understanding is incorrect, my friend. Saying that God can foresee does NOT mean that God doesn't have knowledge prior to the event.
John was able to foresee future events through the power of Jehovah. Jehovah is able to foresee those same events He showed to John through HIS OWN power.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 24 2014,00:40) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 23 2014,12:22) Mike John had vision of things that was to come………
Pierre,That is simply another way of saying, “John was able to SEE future events.”
And “SEEING FUTURE EVENTS” is called “FORESEEING”.
John could not FORESEE those things unless the God who showed him those things could also FORESEE them.
MikeIs that not the same with all the prophets
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 26 2014,04:36) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 24 2014,20:38) Saying that God as to foresee what John the men is foreseeing this mean that heather of them ad knowledge prior to the event…………
Is THAT what's been holding you back, Pierre?Are you thinking that God's ability to foresee what's going to happen means that God is like a fortune teller with a crystal ball, and some OTHER magic or spirit is SHOWING God the things to come?
No Pierre. God can foresee BY HIS OWN POWER. If God KNOWS He is going to cause it to rain in Memphis on Monday, then God can look ahead and actually FORESEE that rain coming down – if He chooses to do so.
Your understanding is incorrect, my friend. Saying that God can foresee does NOT mean that God doesn't have knowledge prior to the event.
John was able to foresee future events through the power of Jehovah. Jehovah is able to foresee those same events He showed to John through HIS OWN power.
MikeShow me were it says in scriptures that God foresees,???
And why would he do that if you find that he does
Please no deduction or assumption
Mike
Also remember John in revelation says that it is Christ angel that is send to him to make him seen those things ,
But Daniel and Ezekiel saw most of those things as well ,even Isaiah saw things similar and wrote them down ,
Why would God as to go and foreseen anything hi the future, he make the future , I understand it this way ,
It,s like God says I send a train all around the earth and anyone who will be on it when it come to it terminal I give him life ,tell me why should God be bothered with whom is going on the train as long that he pays his ticket
God ,knows we're the train goes,we're he stops, how long he stops,and he knows that the ones that will take his train are the ones that want to pay his price for the trip ,now it for some reason he want to tell some passenger where the train will stop in 2 or3 days or even 2 years why would he had to go and foreseen what he already know???, this is in a nut shell
So far you have not given me one scripture to support your view,so please do,
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
