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Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 19 2014,22:39) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 20 2014,03:17) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 19 2014,16:38) Isaiah 46:10 ***Declaring the end from the beginning***, and from ancient times the things **that are not yet done**, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: Isaiah 48:3 **I have declared the former things from the beginning**; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, **and they came to pass**.
Isaiah 48:5 I have even **from the beginning declared it to thee**; **before it came to pass I shewed it thee**: lest thou shouldest say, Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them.
wakeup.
yes God KNOWS and so does not need to look ahead,he declares what comes ahead big difference ,does God knows the future ? of cause he does he cause the future to be what it is ,
this is how we know God is the true God
T.Stop beating about the bush.
Do you agree with those scriptures or dont you?
wakeup.
WREAD MY QUOTE DO NOT INTERPRET IT
Seeking Truth, think like God not Man (Impossible for us to do!? Not with the Spirit of Jesus) Read this s l o w l y..
Romans 8:39.
For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.I believe your answer is in that.
(Just another passing by post!)Quote (2besee @ Feb. 20 2014,02:29) Seeking Truth, think like God not Man (Impossible for us to do!? Not with the Spirit of Jesus) Read this s l o w l y.. Romans 8:39.
For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.I believe your answer is in that.
(Just another passing by post!)
2beevery good scripture but that is showing the power of our faith and love for God and his son ;should be
and so it would be impossible TO BE SEPARATED FROM THE LOVE OF GOD WHICH IS IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD ,
THIS IS WHAT IT MEANS BE ONE WITH CHRIST AS CHRIST IS WITH HIS FATHER
Quote (seekingtruth @ Feb. 19 2014,13:35) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 19 2014,00:42) Hi Wm,
These verses talk about things happening that had not come to God's mind:Jer 19:5 and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, a thing which I never commanded or spoke of, nor did it ever enter My mind;
Jer 7:31 “They have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, which I did not command, and it did not come into My mind.
Jer 32:35 “They built the high places of Baal that are in the valley of Ben-hinnom to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I had not commanded them nor had it entered My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
It seems to me to be clear that there are some things that were not in God's mind that would be done. What do you think of these verses? Had you considered them before?
Kathi,
Great to hear from you.Add to those Genesis 22:12 The angel said, “Don’t kill your son or hurt him in any way. Now I can see that you do respect and obey God. I see that you are ready to kill your son, your only son, for me.” did God not know what Abram would do?
Wm
Wm,Quote Great to hear from you. Thank you! I've been away while my dear mother was very sick and now with the LORD and my dad. So glad we have such hope!! Your area up there has had quite a bit of snow and below zero temps. I'm glad to be back in the south
Quote Add to those Genesis 22:12 The angel said, “Don’t kill your son or hurt him in any way. Now I can see that you do respect and obey God. I see that you are ready to kill your son, your only son, for me.” did God not know what Abram would do? That is a good passage. It seems that He wanted to see what Abe would do and did not know but was testing him.
Here is my mom's favorite passage:
Proverbs 3
5Trust in the LORD with all your heart
And do not lean on your own understanding.6In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He will make your paths straight.Is that implying that if we don't trust in the LORD but we lean on our own understanding, and not acknowledge Him, our paths will not be made straight. It looks as though there are two different outcomes here.
It seems to me that God has a fixed outline for the future but some of the details are determined by man's choice to trust and acknowledge the LORD or not. Nevertheless, the pre-determined events will come to pass. That's is a powerful God who can pull that off. He gives us free will and the main plans of God still won't be thwarted in spite of that free will.
Job 42:2
“I know that You can do all things, And that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted.Isa 55
So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.Rev 2:23
'And I will kill her children with pestilence, and all the churches will know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds.Conclusion thus far:
If the LORD already knows what is in the minds and hearts, why would He need to search them? It seems to me that He doesn't know everything beforehand but can find out anything that is possible to find out even the things hidden in our hearts.Nice topic William! Take care Bro.
Sorry to hear about your mom but at least we not those who have No hope. I'm taking nothing away from God, quite the opposite I believe it adds more glory to what He can accomplish.
Thanks William…yes, so thankful for eternal hope!!
you said:
Quote I'm taking nothing away from God, quite the opposite I believe it adds more glory to what He can accomplish.
I'm not sure what your comment is responding to, please clarify. Are you agreeing with my conclusions, which I have made the type bold in my last post, thus far or no?Hi Kathi,
Sorry to hear about your mom.
I take it that you choose choice #2 in Wm's poll? God CAN know everything He wants to, but sometimes chooses NOT to know every little detail?
Either way, it seems we all agree that God KNOWS what's going to be. The tricky side-issue of this thread has been:
1. Does God know the future because He is going to cause to be whatever He wants to cause to be?
2. Or can God actually LOOK into the future, and FORESEE future events unfolding before His very eyes.
I was quite shocked to find out that most people here seem to think #1 is the correct one……. and that #2 is absolutely NOT the case at all.
I don't know which you believe, but I believe both of them are equally true.
And as evidence, I've offered God's words to Moses in Deuteronomy 31:16-18. In that case, God KNEW ahead of time that the Israelites would prostitute themselves to other gods in the future. So the question is: Did God CAUSE them to do so, and THAT is why He knew they would?
I've also offered the entire book of Revelation, in which John was able to FORESEE future events. And my argument is that God couldn't have possibly allowed John to foresee those events if God Himself was unable to foresee them.
What say you?
Regarding that Mike. I know ahead of time, when my sons become teenagers, that at some point and to some degree they will depart the ways they have been taught when finding their own way in the world. But hopefully will ultimately be guided back in the ways they were instructed with.
I guess I am saying that I am fully expecting that they will go through some kind of rebellion. But I hope it is a good rebellion. I also think that even a man could have guessed that the Jews would come under the influence of other gods from time to time. Would be hard for them not to be when they see other nations and other ways of doing things and perhaps question their God.
I think the thing about God here is that he knew it would happen, but it is almost part of his plan in that this allows him to prove that he is the true God. Because when they depart him, they depart his protection and blessing. After a while lessons are learned through life's experiences.
MIKE
I still disagree with your number 2 ; I will come up with an explanation a little latter, events that shows that God does not foresees but actually make things to come through as he wanted and adapt his will to some extend to some event that men created ,like calling for a king ,and how God adjust it to his own will for the future,
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 20 2014,04:19) Regarding that Mike. I know ahead of time, when my sons become teenagers, that at some point and to some degree they will depart the ways they have been taught when finding their own way in the world. But hopefully will ultimately be guided back in the ways they were instructed with. I guess I am saying that I am fully expecting that they will go through some kind of rebellion. But I hope it is a good rebellion. I also think that even a man could have guessed that the Jews would come under the influence of other gods from time to time. Would be hard for them not to be when they see other nations and other ways of doing things and perhaps question their God.
I think the thing about God here is that he knew it would happen, but it is almost part of his plan in that this allows him to prove that he is the true God. Because when they depart him, they depart his protection and blessing. After a while lessons are learned through life's experiences.
t8yes if you read the dedication by Solomon of the temple in Jerusalem it tells a lot
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 19 2014,17:10) Hi Kathi, Sorry to hear about your mom.
I take it that you choose choice #2 in Wm's poll? God CAN know everything He wants to, but sometimes chooses NOT to know every little detail?
Either way, it seems we all agree that God KNOWS what's going to be. The tricky side-issue of this thread has been:
1. Does God know the future because He is going to cause to be whatever He wants to cause to be?
2. Or can God actually LOOK into the future, and FORESEE future events unfolding before His very eyes.
I was quite shocked to find out that most people here seem to think #1 is the correct one……. and that #2 is absolutely NOT the case at all.
I don't know which you believe, but I believe both of them are equally true.
And as evidence, I've offered God's words to Moses in Deuteronomy 31:16-18. In that case, God KNEW ahead of time that the Israelites would prostitute themselves to other gods in the future. So the question is: Did God CAUSE them to do so, and THAT is why He knew they would?
I've also offered the entire book of Revelation, in which John was able to FORESEE future events. And my argument is that God couldn't have possibly allowed John to foresee those events if God Himself was unable to foresee them.
What say you?
Thanks Mike, she was known for her faith in Christ by so many and regularly had a group of women come to her home for a Bible study. She will be missed!I chose choice #3.
Regarding Revelations, do you really think that Jesus will appear as a wooly lamb as in Rev 5? I'm sure that is off topic…just wondering.
John 1:48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Isaiah 65:1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.
wakeup.
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 19 2014,17:55) Thanks William…yes, so thankful for eternal hope!! you said:
Quote I'm taking nothing away from God, quite the opposite I believe it adds more glory to what He can accomplish.
I'm not sure what your comment is responding to, please clarify. Are you agreeing with my conclusions, which I have made the type bold in my last post, thus far or no?
Sorry it was not addressed to you, I believe we agree for the most part. I just added to clarify to any who seem to believe I'm reducing the 'stature' of God.Wm
Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 20 2014,07:51) John 1:48 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Isaiah 65:1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.
wakeup.
wexcept for the first verse ;of whom does those other scriptures talking about
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 19 2014,16:19) 1. Regarding that Mike. I know ahead of time, when my sons become teenagers, that at some point and to some degree they will depart the ways they have been taught when finding their own way in the world. 2. I also think that even a man could have guessed that the Jews would come under the influence of other gods from time to time.
3. I think the thing about God here is that he knew it would happen, but it is almost part of his plan in that this allows him to prove that he is the true God.
t8,1. There is no way you can KNOW that your sons will rebel. For all we know, Christ could come tomorrow, and your sons won't even have that chance. Or your sons might surprise you and become priests at age 17.
The best you can do is make an “educated GUESS” that they will rebel. And when I asked Wm if God made an “educated GUESS” that the Israelites would rebel, he got mad at me.
But God told those things to Moses as FACTS – not as, “I think they will do this in the future”.
2. I would have never guessed that. I still have a VERY hard time believing that they DID do that. I run the scenario in my mind, placing myself as one of those Israelites who SAW WITH THEIR OWN EYES the things Jehovah did on their behalf.
How could they be shown such awesome power and might and STILL end up going against Him? They were scared to death just to hear His voice on Horeb. How do you purposely go against your Maker, who has given you great favor, and could squash you like a bug if you make Him mad?
I wouldn't.3. I refuse to believe it was God's INTENT that Israelite parents would boil and eat their own children to survive.
4. What about Revelation? It is OBVIOUS that John was foreseeing these events. How could Jehovah cause John to foresee things He Himself couldn't foresee?
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 19 2014,19:21) Regarding Revelations, do you really think that Jesus will appear as a wooly lamb as in Rev 5? I'm sure that is off topic…just wondering.
I think he will come with eyes of blazing fire – looking like someone you wouldn't want to cross.I understand that John was, in some cases, foreseeing SYMBOLIC references to things that soon will be, but much of it seems fairly literal. For example, the lament over Babylon in chapter 18 doesn't seem symbolic to me…… except for maybe the name “Babylon”.
The merchants and seamen seem real enough, don't you think?
Mike
1Ki 9:4 “As for you, if you walk before me in integrity of heart and uprightness, as David your father did, and do all I command and observe my decrees and laws,
1Ki 9:5 I will establish your royal throne over Israel forever, as I promised David your father when I said, ‘You shall never fail to have a man on the throne of Israel.’1Ki 9:6 “But if you or your sons turn away from me and do not observe the commands and decrees I have given you and go off to serve other gods and worship them,
1Ki 9:7 then I will cut off Israel from the land I have given them and will reject this temple I have consecrated for my Name. Israel will then become a byword and an object of ridicule among all peoples.1Ki 9:8 And though this temple is now imposing, all who pass by will be appalled and will scoff and say, ‘Why has the LORD done such a thing to this land and to this temple?’
1Ki 9:9 People will answer, ‘Because they have forsaken the LORD their God, who brought their fathers out of Egypt, and have embraced other gods, worshiping and serving them—that is why the LORD brought all this disaster on them.’ ”God did not foresee the destruction he just gives warnings to your actions
1Ki 8:44 “When your people go to war against their enemies, wherever you send them, and when they pray to the LORD toward the city you have chosen and the temple I have built for your Name,
1Ki 8:45 then hear from heaven their prayer and their plea, and uphold their cause.1Ki 8:46 “When they sin against you—for there is no one who does not sin—and you become angry with them and give them over to the enemy, who takes them captive to his own land, far away or near;
1Ki 8:47 and if they have a change of heart in the land where they are held captive, and repent and plead with you in the land of their conquerors and say, ‘We have sinned, we have done wrong, we have acted wickedly’;
1Ki 8:48 and if they turn back to you with all their heart and soul in the land of their enemies who took them captive, and pray to you toward the land you gave their fathers, toward the city you have chosen and the temple I have built for your Name;
1Ki 8:49 then from heaven, your dwelling place, hear their prayer and their plea, and uphold their cause.
1Ki 8:50 And forgive your people, who have sinned against you; forgive all the offenses they have committed against you, and cause their conquerors to show them mercy;
1Ki 8:51 for they are your people and your inheritance, whom you brought out of Egypt, out of that iron-smelting furnace.1Ki 8:52 “May your eyes be open to your servant’s
again even Solomon start with an “if” and so could foreseen their sins ; how big the sin ? is it important ?
Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 21 2014,08:31) T. Just turkey talk.
Anyone can do that,but you are the best.wakeup.
wwe are talking about if God foresees ,my scriptures says by anticipation IF they (people of Israel) are sinning and plaid in their favor ,
read carefully of what Solomon says ;and understand ,
sorry for the raw mead ;Mike can do better
the reason for Solomon foreseeing is right in those verses .
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