- This topic is empty.
- Posts
you asked:
An offspring from the one true God and yet is the one true God??
That is not what I said.
An offspring from and a part of the one true God and is the same kind of being as the one true God-eternal being.@kerwin
Here are some thoughts in response to your posts today:
you said:We as a kind were made subject to sin because our own sinned so it follows the we as a kind can only be freed by one of our own doing right.
Jesus is the second Adam, the first Adam was also sinless before eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
you also said:
The statement in Scripture is not God cannot be tempted by sin. He would have to stop being the one true God in order to be tempted by sin. I am convinced he cannot even do so as it involves him subjecting himself to Satan to the extent of being tempted to the extent there is a possibility he would choose sin. Another thing is if God stopped being God there would be no God.
You understand only one person being God but I understand two persons, one remained as God, while the other was sent to also become man. Does it say anywhere that Jesus felt tempted or just that He was tempted? There is a difference. I will have to look at that further.
Peter is calling Jesus a type of the rock of stumbling because Jesus was not yet conceived, much less ascended to heaven in order to mediate the new covenant, at the time Isaiah was writing Jehovah’s words in the OT.
Isaiah was a prophet, the prophecies spoke of future events. Compare these two passages:
Isaiah 28:16
So this is what the Sovereign LORD says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone for a sure foundation; the one who relies on it will never be stricken with panic.
1 Cor 3:11
For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.Right there it tells you once again that the stone for the sure foundation is Jesus Christ, (not the law) and this time it is Paul writing. Two witnesses to naming the stone, not the other stone or the second stone, or a type of a truer stone as you want to convince people.
your other comment:
Scripture does call Jesus the Lord but it also makes clear that God whom it also calls the Lord is superior to him.
Superior in what way, Kerwin? As a Father to a Son perhaps and not in the kind of being they are? A human son is naturally less than his father regarding their relationship position but not less human than his father. If they are both always existent, one isn’t less eternal than the other.
You are trying to say Scripture reserves certain title for God in order to support your own doctrine but without any evidence your claim is true. You can say that, you can believe it is true but you have no evidence to convince anyone else it is true.
The evidence is seen by many…I am not alone in what I understand, Kerwin.
lastly, you said:
If they choose to believe the same thing then they choose to believe because of something internal to them.
I hope that it is the Spirit of God and not man or a deceiving spirit…the Spirit of God guiding the person would be the only way to know for themself. I can only act as a catalyst to perhaps cause someone to consider something with a spirit of understand and a willingness to surrender to his past beliefs.
God bless, Kerwin!
@NickHassan
The battle is the Lord’s, not mine.@t8
you said:There is a ton of assumptions here and little scripture.
I have given you many scriptures over the years. What did I say that you think can not be supported by scripture?
you asked:
Is Eve Adam himself because she walked and talked like a human.
Eve is not Adam and the Son is not the Father. Eve and Adam are however the same kind of being, human being. The Father and Son are the same kind of being, eternal being.
Nick,
No it is not God’s problem. He is who He is. I’m hoping to know Him better and better as I seek the Father and Son and Spirit without infringing limits upon them. How about you, are you open for them to be different than what you believe now?LU,
Jesus is the second Adam, the first Adam was also sinless before eating from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.
Yes, that is where I was coming from in what I said.
You understand only one person being God but I understand two persons, one remained as God, while the other was sent to also become man. Does it say anywhere that Jesus felt tempted or just that He was tempted? There is a difference. I will have to look at that further.
Yes, I understand there each individual is only one person. Perhaps one person with a split personality but still one person unless a demon or something else shares their body. God did share Jesus body just as he share those of the ones the believe in him by his Spirit.
So do you believe that when Jesus was a human being God was only one person as Jesus could not be God and yet be tempted by sin?
I do not have to stretch to explain my doctrine as Scripture tells us was a human being and will return as the chief descendant of humanity.
Isaiah was a prophet, the prophecies spoke of future events.
He is a prophet and he did tell of future events though some were near future and farther in the future. I believe there is some current events of his time in the mix and maybe even some he found historic. I may be confusing him with Jeremiah.
Hi LU,
You confuse Jesus of nazareth with the Word, the Spirit of Christ , with which he was anointed at the Jordan.
you said:
To me it is strait forward Jesus was tempted by sin while the one true God cannot be therefore Jesus cannot be God.
Kerwin, from what you said, this is a real hangup for you because you don’t seem to understand this correctly, imo. There is a difference from being tempted to sin from an outside source and feeling tempted to sin from within yourself. God cannot feel tempted to sin from within Himself and neither could Jesus even as a man because of having a fullness of grace and truth and perfect love. Jesus had human nature and felt hungry at times and the devil tried to take advantage of that human desire to satisfy hunger, by persuading Jesus to use His supernatural ability that He had as the Son of God and turn the stone to bread instead of relying on the Father to provide for Him in the desert, for example. Jesus, being supernatural could have made the stone into bread, but choosing to operate in the confines of flesh as a man, He relied on the Father’s provision. A normal man would not have to make that choice, we are not supernatural and can’t turn a stone into bread and the devil or somebody else wouldn’t be wasting their time trying to persuade us to do something that is not possible for us to do. Jesus could have but didn’t, He was not tempted from within Himself to take matters into His own hands because He was full of grace and truth and perfect love, He was being tempted from OUTSIDE of Himself.
Btw, the fact that the devil tried to get Jesus to do something supernatural like turning stone to bread should tell you that Jesus had the ability to turn stone to bread or it would not be something for the devil to bother trying to persuade Him to do.
Jesus felt hunger, that shows that He was a man. Jesus could have supernaturally turned the stone into bread, that shows that He was supernatural. He was both at the same time.
Have a great day, Kerwin!
@NickHassan
I believe the duck was a duck, you believe it was a spirit of a duck (whatever that would be). We differ on this. I leave that to the Lord to guide me into truth if I need a different understanding. I will trust Him.LU……..Jesus could only qualify as our kinsman redeemer by being a pure human being, because scripture say it was by man sin interred into the world, and it was by man it had to be paid for. The first human Adam introduced sin into the world, and by another ADAM called the second human Adam (Jesus ) it was paid for. God could not maintain his justice without requiring a payment for the sins of man from it’s source man. That man who paid for man’s sins could not be a God of any kind or he could not pay for our sins, because that would be also unjust for a God who had no sin to pay for a mans sins, So God brought forth another type of ADAM another pure human son of his, just as the first Adam was a direct creation of his and even as it is written “ADAM THE SON OF GOD” the second ADAM WAS ALSO A SON OF GOD, both were created as a human being, the second Adam, Jesus who lived without sinning, and as a result was able to pay our price Tage for our sin, and thereby maintaining the justice requirement of God, for sins committed by man. Jesus was able to do that because he was the only pure human being without sin.
Jesus did not have to give his life for our sin, and he could have lived forever just the way he was, and never taste death, GOD left it all up to him, to die a terrible death for our sins, or live forever the way he was. He chose on his own to lay down his sinless life to redeem us, God accepted his price for our sins, we were purchased with a great price. Our sins cost the life of another human how could have lived forever just the way he was, never having to die, but the love of God was in his heart for us all, and he understood it was him only who could deliver us from the judgement of eternal death, which was on us all. All sins requires a penalty and GOD DOES NOT LIE, “the soul that sins, it shall die”. Now how could we pay that price tag seening the penalty for our sins requires us to die, and if we are dead there’s no way we could make the payment and still live if the requirement was our life. So the only possible way was for someone to pay that price tag for us, allowing us to continue to live, that our Lord the man Jesus,the Christos, did for us, so we indeed are debtors to him. His payment of his very life for us, satisfied the righteous judgement of God, no other way was possible and still maintain God’s justice for our sins.
It had to be paid by man for man’s sins, if God took a perfect preexisting person and morphed him into a flesh body, a person who was really not sacrificing anything himself really, because he knew he would still comeback to life in his original past existing form, what sacrifice would that really be, no LU, JESUS WAS A PURE HUMAN BEING WHO DID NOT HAVE ANY KIND OF PREEXISTENT LIFE OF ANY KIND, HE WAS A SON OF MAN, JUST AS HE SAID OVER AND OVER AND OVER. Until you see him as a son of mankind, and not a God of any kind, you simply will not truly see him. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………….gene
LU,
There is a difference from being tempted to sin from an outside source and feeling tempted to sin from within yourself.
Humans are tempted by an outside force but it is an internal force that grabs hold of that temptation like a fish grabs hold of a lure. After all it is written “Resist the devil, and he will flee from you”, James 4:7. James also states in 1:14 that :but every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed” so each human must resist that part of him that allows the evil one to draw him away from the path of righteousness and entice him.
But you claim Jesus have that part that allowed him to be drawn away and enticed but Scripture disagrees for it is written “was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin, Hebrews 4:15. He had that part or he would not be tempted as we are but he never allowed himself to be drawn away and enticed so as to give birth to sin.
To all that are concerned,
I believe I have made the case that whether 1 Peter 2 implies Jesus is God is in the eye if the beholder and therefore cannot be used as evidence that Jesus is God. The evidence for or against that must be gleaned from other Scriptures and then tested against the context of Scripture in general.
Hi GB,
He could have lived forever as a man??
Did the restrictions on the length of life imposed on all men exclude him and if so was he really a man?
Bottom line, although beings, human or otherwise, can and do try to persuade God or man to do something, God will never allow beings to persuade Him to act in a way that is less than perfect love because perfect love, grace and truth fill His heart and His mind so to speak. God has freedom to choose and change His mind but it will ALWAYS be out of the place of perfect love, grace and truth, never out of lust for lust has no place when one is filled up with perfect love grace and truth. That is why, as I have come to understand it, that God cannot be tempted/tested by evil.
The Greek word for ‘to tempt’ also means ‘to test.’ Man has been successful to persuade God to change His (God’s) mind but it was for the end result of good and not for evil.
The question is:
Can Jesus be human if he didn’t have the ability to lust because He was filled with perfect love, grace and truth? There is no room for sin if one is filled with perfect love, grace and truth. That doesn’t mean someone couldn’t try to tempt Him to give place to sin…in fact many did including the devil. Jesus never gave sin a place for the seed of sin to rest, He could have but He remained filled.
Perfect love casts out all fear. Read a passage about perfect love:
1 John 4
15Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. 18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.
Man has the capability to be filled with love, grace and truth but man, through a free will to choose, chose to give place to sin. Jesus didn’t make that choice and therefore, although human, did not sin.Hi Gene,
Both the first and the second Adam were without sin from the get go. The first Adam gave place to sin, Jesus never did. Therefore, Jesus could be the perfect human sacrifice to redeem mankind.
@NickHassan
He was supernatural, remained supernatural, chose to live in the restraints of the natural to become the firstborn from the dead of many brethren. It is by His death, He calls the saints, His brothers at the same time that He remains their creator to the glory of the Father.You have Him in a box Nick…the Nickbox that says He is not like us enough to be our brother. Open the box Nick and realize that Jesus was supernatural even while He was in the flesh.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
