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fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #190)
Doesn’t that sound right?
The Christians have on more than one occasion tried to annihilate the Jews
did God tell them to do it? Look at your Christian writingsOur Christian writings are the 66 books of the bible – that is what God told us to do!
When copying from another source, you are suppose to provide a link to the material
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God bless
Ed Jfight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #190)
Doesn’t that sound right?
Hi BD,
NO, fighting in the cause of ‘al-Lah’ is a transgression against God.
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God bless
Ed JDo we get our morality from the bible? Yes and from outside sources.
Thank you for confirming my words!
Shouldn’t we only be getting our morality from the bible? What happens when they conflict? And if we sometimes are taking our morality from the world and just superimposing that morality onto the bible, how do we know we are ever getting our morality from the bible at all?
Simple example: people feel it’s wrong to murder, because it creates pain and suffering. The bible says murder is wrong. If the bible didn’t say murder was wrong, it would still be wrong. Right?
Or, if the bible said murder was okay, we would find a way to justify it, to say those verses are figurative or symbolic. We would say the scripture doesn’t really say what it says.Isn’t this what has been done with beating children for example? Our morality is taken from elsewhere and doesn’t match the bible, so we say those verses are figurative even though they aren’t.
Where our morality matches the bible it’s easy to say it comes from the bible. But when they don’t match, we go through all sorts of mental hoops to make it seem like the bible fits with modern morality.
Just like today many Christians say homosexuality is fine, despite clear scriptures, similarly today Christians often say the bible doesn’t endorse physically bearing children, when it literally says that repeatedly.
Hi David,
Do you believe (as some states have done in their legal system) that the death penalty should be abolished?
1. Yes!
2. No!
3. I don’t know?Hi,
Discussing morality is off target like that of making ourselves sinless.
Good morality is the fruit of being led by the Spirit and guided by the Word.[eg 1 peter 2.11f]
Whether it should be abolished, I really don’t know. I know that eventually it will be. Often or usually, the states that still have that law on their books, the people lose their Taste for it 50 yeas before it is finally abolished. Through history it was meant to be a deterrent and people thought the more gruesome it was the more it would deter. But for most of history it was entertainment as much as it was a deterrent. And for most of history it was public torture before the death with crowds watching as a form of entertainment. Hangings and the guillotine were actually merciful replacements because they were much quicker than what came before and yet today we are repulsed by them. We want to be as far removed from the violence as possible. We say executions are botched if the person doesn’t die right away and suffers a little. The world today has lost its taste for blood and thinks it immoral to kill, and definitely immoral to torture and then kill, as was the case for almost all of history. In bible times, stonings we’re essentially a slow torturous death that was meant to put fear into the onlookers.
I’m not entirely sure the point you are attempting but God commanded the death penalty for a host of things such as a rebellious son who doesn’t respect their parents. And today the world is deciding that torture deaths, and now judicial executions aren’t morally acceptable. So the world is not taking its morality on this from the bible. If it was, you would likely know people that were killed by having stones hurled at their head and body and you may have joined in. The Israelites had the technology to put someone to death much quicker and much less painfully than rocks. I think the issue of the death penalty is different than the issue of death by torture. I would say death by torture is immoral, because it creates needless pain and suffering. And it hasn’t been the great modification tool of society that one would think. Expansion of literacy and the expansion of the tribe or group as they view more and more as part of their group–the growing circle of empathy, as well as the leviathan, the police state, or judicial state that has a monopoly on power, as well as the growth of abstract thinking and the ability to hypothesize, as well as the growth of science and reason–being able to know that a bleak person is actually a person and not a mix of ape and man as was believed, or that native Americans are humans, and not soulless animals as was believed, all these things and many more served a far greater effect in the reduction of violence than scaring people through either toeture or death has.
Nick,
Right on cue, your flowery words sound good but have little meaning. Nick, shouldn’t our morality come from the bible, which was inspired by gods spirit? Wasn’t the bible meant to be our guiding light, our sense of right and wrong? Or do you just decide what feels right to you at that moment? Or rather do you partly look to the world for moral guidance? Where does your morality come from? Do you pick and choose? Or does it come from the bible?I see there is a thread on homosexuality that has been started.
Imagine that a Christian is telling a homosexual that “homosexuality is wrong,” to which the homosexual replies: “TIMES HAVE CHANGED.”
The Christian then says: “doesn’t matter what the world thinks, God doesn’t change and his word clearly says homosexuality is wrong.”
The homosexual then says: “do you beat your son with a rod?”
The Christian replies: “TIMES HAVE CHANGED.”
The homosexual then says: “God doesn’t change and his word clearly says to beat your son with a rod. It says that bruises or wounds cleanse away evil.”
The Christian says: “despite those verses being understood to be literal for thousands of years, it’s now clear that all those verses are figurative and plus, there are so many other scriptures that speak of gods love.”
The homosexual says: “despite the homosexual verses being understood to be literal for thousands of years, I think perhaps those verse are also now figurative and plus, the bible says that God is not partial and that any man who fears him is acceptable to him.”
So which is it? Do we take our morality from the bible? Or does it evolve as the worlds morality evolves?
Hi David,
Are you a Jew that you would try to rely on works of Law to impress God?
Whosoever wants to save his own life will lose it.
Nick,
The thing about your comments are, 95% of them could be randomly posted in any thread and it wouldn’t be any more or less clear what you meant. You could take that last comment and post it in any thread. What is the point?I have not suggested relying on works of law.
Nick, this thread is about morality, good and bad behaviour and how that is distinguished.
Do you believe you get your sense of morality from the bible? Where does your morality come from? Where should it come from?
(Please do not again randomly open the bible and type whatever scripture your finger lands on)
Hi david,
Same old record going round and round.
Whitewashing the outer without attention to the dead bones inside.
sound familiar?
Nick,
You give the impression that you do not care if the inside is clean either. If you did then you would know that when the inside is clean the outside is also. If the outside is not clean then you do not bear Spiritual fruit.David,
Different individual interpret Scriptures in different ways. Some interpret according to their culture. In return the cultural is effected by the interpretation of the elites.
Legislation exists to regulate behavior the society feels needs regulating. Our society was once fairly religious but has since pulled away but history effects it one way or another.
The bottom line is many condemn God’s actions while claiming to serve him.
Nick.
Thanks for so succinctly proving my point. Do you even know what this thread is about?
Seriously, 95% of your posts could be ousted to any single thread and it really wouldn’t matter.
Hi David,
From a JW site
Jehovah’s Witnesses place a high value on moral living, teaching that “believers…will be saved to eternal life only if they continue to adhere to all of God’s requirements” {1} and that “persons who practice things that God says are bad will not inherit God’s kingdom.” {2}
Those who have committed serious sins before their baptism, or even after, will be forgiven by Jehovah and welcomed in the congregation so long as they abandon their sin completely. However, even after full restoration, such repentant sinners will probably never be eligible to lead the congregation as elders. {3}
On the positive side, Jehovah’s Witnesses encourage cleanness (physical, mental, and spiritual), honesty, modesty in appearance, and many other virtues. Members are encouraged to cultivate virtue, which is “entails more than a thorough acquaintance with God’s Word. It calls for meditation on what is written there so that our hearts get filled with gratitude for Jehovah and we are moved to apply Scriptural principles in our lives.” {4}
Still hoping that toeing the JW line of legalism will save you?
Nick,
Really?
Do you not trust the Spirit that sanctifies?
Do you believe that a person can be sanctified by the Spirit and not bear its fruit?
I ask because your words are response to my statement “If the outside is not clean then you do not bear Spiritual fruit.”
Hi David,
Again
Meaning of Life and Salvation
For Jehovah’s Witnesses, the purpose of life is to earn the right to participate in God’s future Kingdom on earth, and to help others to do so. Witnesses therefore focus on living a moral, acceptable life before God and witnessing about their faith to others. [7]I see why you focus on MORALITY-at the expense of joy.
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