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Irene,
you now openly, admit that you posted wrongful scriptures to the forum – Irene it is in black and white – uneraseable – and yet you still protest – my, Irene, you are a tough cooky – even trying to disclaim your own revelation that you posted egregious posts against Scriptures – against God's word right here in this forum.
Irene, how do you do that? What is driving you towards destruction – ok, Someone told me you are OLD and Terrarica is OLD so i will leave off you – “If you are Sinful – remain being Sinful, and if you are righteous – Remain being righteous”
Terrarica, you say to me “If I don't plan to teach you something…”
Who brought you here to argue with me – Did I invite you/ NO, so how do you say “If I don't plan to teach you something”?
See, Terrarica, you don't even know what you are saying – you seem to just pitch in with what ever come to your mind without regard to any context.
When did i say i was going to teach you anything?
Who said I was going to teach you anything?
Why would I want to teach YOU anything?Quote (Istari @ Jan. 03 2011,14:23) Irene, This is EXACTLY what I expected you to say.
Quote Tell you what, we all have to stand in front of God and show God who is Love, how we respond to others.
Irene, so you think that Jesus was wrong for trashing the people's property who were sullying the Temple of God – Jesus was in a RAGE!!! What would you have said to Jesus afterwards “Bad boy! – you gotta pay for the damage – and answer to GOD for your outrageous behaviour!”Quote I have not responded to you because I have seen how you put a person down.
I have not put anyone down – merely spoken a summary of the posts from this thread – When you are IN IT you miss a whole heap. I have the advantage of coming here at the end and can see with unblinkered eyes
And IRENE – THIS IS NOT THE REASON YOU DID NOT RESPOND TO ME.[/QUOTE]Quote Yes, there is a Spiritual Body,Scripture says so.
Well, DUH, Irene, of course Scriptures says so – that's what we talking about…
I see you refuse to post a definition of it though – I really really really wonder why??[/QUOTE]Quote as far as celestial bodies go, you right.
Double DUH!! I [didn't] like the way you hid that answer in the middle of the text but OK. Thank you….Quote But to me there are bodies in Heaven and on Earth.
Irene, LEAN NOT ON THINE OWN UNDERSTANDING – especially when you know you are being egregious to yourself and against GOD ALMIGHTY.Quote Scripture also says so.
HEAVENS (PLURAL) Irene, HEAVENS is not HEAVEN, IRENE. Why do people LOOK UP when refering to God's abode – because of custom. But HEAVEN is not UP or DOWN or LEFT or RIGHT or IN or OUT about you it is “IN YOU, if you have Godliness”Quote To pick on my dear Husband, who you don;t even know, is very uncalled for…..
Your Husband should have led you away from Sinning Irene. He is your HEAD – to HIM is the greater SIN.Quote To pick on Mike is also uncalled for.
Mike was also sinning – big time! He ran off when he knew who it was who was speaking about him…
See, I have left him a 'proper Discussion thread Exit note'.Quote So far all you have done is make enemies on this site, and not friends.
Who is my Enemy Irene, Truth or Falsity? If I have made enemies of those who speak fallacy then EVER SO GOOD Then!Quote You are not Christ like at all.
Irene, and you can recognise a Christ like one can you – you mean someone who gives in to you when you speak falsely – You knew you were speaking falsely about Celestial, Terrestrial and Spiritual – and you call me NOT CHRIST-LIKE!!!Quote good bye…..Peace Irene
Now there is falsity right there – PEACE…you use it like a dirty rag and think yourself pious for it…
Irene,just to remind you…
Quote (Istari @ Jan. 04 2011,00:22) Irene,
Abuse is subjective here. What you see as abusive is only because YOU WANT to SEE IT AS THAT because you are hurt that your carefully aid out plan of disreputed postings are unravelling in front of you – and your PRIDE IS HURT.I can see how JA got banned. Are you planning to do the same with me?
Hey, didn't someone say that ALL JA's colours have been removed – i saw them when I first joined the site as Astaria…I thought they were pretty until i realised what they were. But see, they have been removed – all of them – WHY? But he still hasn't posted since – not directly anyway.
Must have been a smack in the face for those who got him banned eh?
istariyea ,But he still hasn't posted since – not directly anyway.
changing names is easy to do,
Pierre
<a style='text-decoration:none; display: inline-block;' onclick="var a=document.getElementsByTagName('span');for(var z=0;zTerrarica,
click on your name above…Quote (Istari @ Jan. 04 2011,00:31) Terrarica, you say to me “If I don't plan to teach you something…” Who brought you here to argue with me – Did I invite you/ NO, so how do you say “If I don't plan to teach you something”?
See, Terrarica, you don't even know what you are saying – you seem to just pitch in with what ever come to your mind without regard to any context.
When did i say i was going to teach you anything?
Who said I was going to teach you anything?
Why would I want to teach YOU anything?
istariwen you disqualify me of knowing nothing or close to it ;this would mean you know more ,
because you have judge me lower than you ,but i know that i am nothing and know nothing ,
so it is normal to seek understanding from someone who has some,do you
Pierre
Quote (Istari @ Jan. 04 2011,00:57) <a style='text-decoration:none; display: inline-block;' onclick="var a=document.getElementsByTagName('span');for(var z=0;zTerrarica,
click on your name above…
istariit is not my name
Pierre
Terrirac,
you disqualified yourself…I don't know what i read what you post – you make no sense… Good by!
Terrarica – what is wrong with you…What do you mean “it is not my name”
Oh dear, you mean because I missed a “C” – sorry – never noticed that – is this the first time i dunnit? Why didn't you say before – See I have always spelt it that way…
Did that exclude you from doing what i asked – how sad – how petty – that is VANITY.
I never complaint when you called me A” and “AS” and “AST” – what's in a name that I should be offended…
<div style='display: inline-block;' onclick="var a=document.getElementsByTagName('span');for(var z=0;zOkay, Click here then
poor Terraricca is offended because I accidentally misspelt his name…when he shortens my name and even calls me by a totally different name…wow!!
Ah, no, he didn't want to click the link – ah, Terraricca – what did you think it was going to do…
Will someone else click there ED J, you know what it will do – or maybe Terraricca did click it and just doesn't want to acknowledge that he did….so sad – so sad so sad….
Quote (Istari @ Jan. 03 2011,10:36) Georg, hello, I see great confusion in this thread.
George, it seems you are right concerning this aspect.
Jesus went to pains to show that he was FLESH and BONE… Why is this disputed by anyone here…even Doubting Thomas believed and further, Jesus went on to say:
Quote “because you have seen me [and felt me] YOU have believed. HAPPY are those who did not see but yet believe” And what is it that Paul says:
Quote “It is buried a Natural Body, it is raised a Spiritual Body, for if there is a Natural body there is also a Spiritual body” What is the “Natural Body”? Did Jesus die in a Natural Body?
What is the “Spiritual Body”? Was Jesus raised in a Spiritual Body?I see Mikeboll64 says Jesus didn't acquire a Spiritual Body until he was entering Heaven 'for what reason would he need a Spiritual body before' (Please excuse my adlib!).
But Scriptures does not say what Mikeboll64 is saying. There is no reference to Jesus having his body made Spiritual 'just before he entered Heaven'.
It appears that just as Paul says, Jesus was raised up into the SAME Body he was buried in but that SAME body was made Spiritual (The tension is around the term “Spiritual Body” here I think!)
There seems to be debate over Jesus showing his hands and side with wounds proving it was HIM, and that the wounds were real…but the Disciples did not recognise Jesus until he showed them.
When Jesus died, his body was scourged and torn, yet his newly raised body was not – except for the wounds in his hand and side – could his body have been cleaned up for the burial so his less ragged scars were embalmed (or whatever they do in pallors) Why didn't Jesus show them the where the thorns pierced his forehead and the Scourge marks on his back?
No, I believe that Jesus maintained the Holes in his body explicitly to prove who he was. Remember that he had healed many people of damage to their body…how easy would it have been for the Holy Spirit to heal Jesus' wounds. No, he wears his wounds as a trophy of his triumph. Perhaps why Revelation shows him as a lamb 'as if slaughtered'.
And then, Jesus just 'APPEARED' to two men walking on the road, then just as bewilderingly, 'DISAPPEARED', 'Vanished' before them when they reached their destination.
Then he mysteriously 'entered among the disciples' from nowhere.
Then he shockingly 'Entered in among them' even though “the doors had be been shut for fear of the Jews”.
Then later on Jesus rises up into the clouds and DISAPPEARS in from of some of the disciples…two men mysteriously appear saying “Men of Galilee, why look you up in the empty sky, this Jesus will appear again in like fashion that you [just saw] him leave”.How did his body enter Heaven. Jesus said Flesh and Blood cannot enter Heaven…
Did he say that “FLESH and BONE” cannot enter Heaven…who says this – I think this is plain silly… Why? because Heaven is the realm of the Spirits – not the realm of the Material – and FLESH and BONE is Material.Perhaps, FLESH and BONE is the SPIRITUAL BODY (Note: Not Flesh and BLOOD – why?)
What is a Spiritual Body… Pure, incorruptible, Godly, without Sin.
What is a Natural Body… impure, corruptible, unGodly, with Sin.The word “Spirit” means, “Without Body” – Jesus had a body on being raised up, and he proved he was not Spirit.
But then he entered Heaven and is Now Spirit, as Mikeboll64 says.
Wikipedia says that certain church leaders believed that Demon Spirits could create bodies for themselves.
So if Demon Spirits can materialise bodies [illegally] for themselves, and presumably de-materialise them as them, then why would Jesus find it a problem to do so having the full backing of god Almighty?
Who takes a shower with his clothes on?
No, you take off the [sullied] clothes, enter into the [Heavenly] shower, then put on [clean] clothes when you come out.Is this a NATURAL BODY? Is this what a SPIRITUAL BODY can do?
I think this is hitting on the answer to this seemingly endlessly confusing discussion.
Hello JAYou are as confused about some things as before.
You don't understand either, why Jesus can not appear in the body that died, that body was the ransom.
Yes, Jesus died in a natural, flesh, body.
Yes, Jesus was raised in a spirit/invisible body.
It's not that he “needed” a spirit/invisible body before going to heaven, a spirit/invisible body was his nature; God had given him back his true nature, spirit/invisible.Where did Paul say that Jesus was raised in the same body he was buried in?
No, he was not yet cleaned up; the woman coming to the grave, early Sunday morning, were going to get him ready for burial.
You said this;
“””No, I believe that Jesus maintained the Holes in his body explicitly to prove who he was. Remember that he had healed many people of damage to their body…how easy would it have been for the Holy Spirit to heal Jesus' wounds. No, he wears his wounds as a trophy of his triumph. Perhaps why Revelation shows him as a lamb 'as if slaughtered'.”””
I find it pointless to even comment on it.Spirit bodies are invisible to us.
Natural bodies are visible to us, they too will become without sin.The word spirit means; invisible. how can YOU tell what a spirit body is or is not, have you ever seen one?
Jesus was raised with a spirit body, and took on a flesh body when he appeared to humans.
Georg
Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 03 2011,10:50) Hey, have you seen that JustAskin is unblemished again – he has no blocks anymore…that is “Spiritual!”
No, that is confusion.Georg
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 03 2011,12:49) Quote (Baker @ Jan. 03 2011,08:01) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 03 2011,06:07) Pierre, I have a better and more “to the point” question for you, Georg, Irene and David.
Do you believe that Jesus LIED to and DECEIVED his followers by claiming he was NOT a spirit when he really was? YES or NO?
mike
No he did not, when he stood in front of them he was not spirit, he “was” flesh and bones.Georg
Hi Georg,So you think that while Jesus was in that room, he STOPPED being the spiritual being that he was raised as, and became a REAL, FLESH AND BONE HUMAN BEING for a while?
Look guys, I like all of you and don't want to fight about this anymore.
I will sum up my position with this:
You all think that Jesus' body had to be “destroyed” or whatever in order for it to be the sacrifice. But THERE IS NO SCRIPTURE THAT TEACHES THIS. So it is ONLY your understanding, not scripture, that leads you to believe this way.
I offer you the fact that Jesus' LIFE was also the sacrifice, and yet he received that back.
I offer you scriptures that say his BODY would NOT see decay.
I offer you scripture where Jesus tells his followers he is NOT a spirit.
And I offer you scripture where Jesus shows his followers the holes in his hands and side.
All of these are very good reasons to believe that Jesus was raised in the same body he died in.
I offer you scripture where Paul hopes to have his lowly body TRANSFORMED into the kind of glorious spiritual body Jesus now has.
I offer you my understanding that Jesus was raised with his same body, and then it was TRANSFORMED upon his ascension into heaven.
I offer you the logic that Jesus would not have needed a spiritual body for those 40 days he remained on earth.
And I offer you the logic that as Jesus was dying and said “It has been accomplished”, the sacrifice had been made at that time. We were not going to become any more forgiven as time went by or as his body decayed or was destroyed. It was the loss of his life that was the sacrifice. And if the sacrifice was complete even though he received that life back, then there is no solid logical or scriptural reason to think the body itself had to be destroyed in order for the sacrifice to be completed. In fact, there are scriptures that say his body WOULDN'T suffer destruction.
In conclusion, my understanding fits in with ALL of the scriptures. Your understanding leaves holes, and has Jesus lying to his followers. Your understanding is based on your OPINION that the body MUST be destroyed for the sacrifice to be completed, although there is NO scriptural evidence to support this opinion.
I'm done with this subject now. And as always, I've have studied many scriptures and have learned much from discussing this subject with you fine folks………so thank you from the bottom of my heart.
peace and love,
mike
When those who will come up in the “first” resurrection, they will be raised with a spirit body, but, that is not their flesh body turned spirit, their flesh bodies, or what is left of them, will remain in the grave.The spirit world is a complete different world then our physical world. It is an “invisible” world, with totally different dimensions. We should not try to figure out what their “bodies” look like, how can any one describe something you cant see? The fact that the Bible says they exist should be enough.
When Jesus appeared to the apostles he did not stop being a spirit being, he just took on for the moment the form of a flesh being, so that he could be seen.
If you would understand what the ransom is, you would not need scripture to tell you that the flesh body of Jesus had to remain in the grave.
Why is it that people think Jesus was raised in the same body he was buried in? is it not for the fact that no body was found? Is that the prove?
There is no logic to think that Jesus had a flesh body for the time he spend on earth, before he ascended to heaven.
The dying part was finished, but the “saving the whole world” has not yet begun.
Don't become frustrated, this time is not meant for all to understand, that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
Georg
Quote (Istari @ Jan. 03 2011,13:03) Irene, I see you refuse to post a definition of Celestial bodies” but insists on posting definition of “Celestial” only.
Is there a problem with “Celestial Bodies” that cause you to be incapable of typing that TERM into 'goggle'?
Irene, why do i feel you are hiding something dreadful -?
Irene, I will ask ONE MORE TIME – and then you will be answerable to GOD himself for your response:
Irene, Please post definitions from credible sources of the terms “CELESTIAL BODIES” and “SPIRITUAL BODIES”.
Irene, to help you…remember that the Spiritual Body can also be obtained from FIGURATIVE DYING… that is, putting off sinful ways in thought and deed, becoming like Christ, pure in thought and act, ever looking to the Father away from the fleshly body (even while existing in the fleshly body) abstaining from (Women / men) and from lustful ideals of this world, jealousy, hate, rivalry, glutton, avarice, pride, etc.
Irene, this is “Putting on the being Spiritual body” (even while still in the flesh).I hope this help – remember, you will have to answer….oh, yes, both you and George.
JA, put a lid on it.Georg
Quote (Istari @ Jan. 03 2011,16:58) Peace to you Irene, Quote All those that are in Heaven with God have Spiritual Bodies. God is Spirit. Flesh and Bl;ood cannot be in Heaven Confusion, confusion, confusion…Who runs this website?
Irene say all in heaven with God have Spiritual bodies (Shimmer, I thought you said it was over?)
Oh, Irene, I feel you are crying – sorry – but if you will post that which no Scripture says against what Scriptures does say – what are you expect…
What on earth do you mean “All in heaven have Spiritual bodies ” and then “Flesh and Blood cannot be in Heaven”
Irene, who was arguing with you.
Seems you, like Terrarica, create your own argument and then dispute it against another as if that other person said it…This is what I was defending you against when Mikeboll64 was doing it to you… I didn't realise ALL THREE OF YOU ARE EXACTLY THE SAME….
I think t8 was wrong for allowing you, JA, back on here.Georg
That's not true Georg what you say, and any other site would have banned you, and Terrarica, and David and EdJ for speaking things like you do. Look for yourself. Go on any other Christian website and try and say what you are saying here !
Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 03 2011,20:06) That's not true Georg what you say, and any other site would have banned you, and Terrarica, and David and EdJ for speaking things like you do. Look for yourself. Go on any other Christian website and try and say what you are saying here !
Which post are you referring to?Georg
Quote (Baker @ Jan. 03 2011,22:13) Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 03 2011,20:06) That's not true Georg what you say, and any other site would have banned you, and Terrarica, and David and EdJ for speaking things like you do. Look for yourself. Go on any other Christian website and try and say what you are saying here !
Which post are you referring to?Georg
This;
Quote When Jesus appeared to the apostles he did not stop being a spirit being, he just took on for the moment the form of a flesh being, so that he could be seen. If you would understand what the ransom is, you would not need scripture to tell you that the flesh body of Jesus had to remain in the grave.
Why is it that people think Jesus was raised in the same body he was buried in? is it not for the fact that no body was found? Is that the prove?
There is no logic to think that Jesus had a flesh body for the time he spend on earth, before he ascended to heaven.
Thats all I have to say though.
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