Do spirits have bodies?

[seekingtruth]

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 01 2011,09:32)

Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 01 2011,07:12) I used to just back out of discussions once all points are made/understood/rejected to avoid “quarreling about words” but it was pointed out that I was leaving people hanging. So at this point I announce that I am backing out of this discussion, I've made my points, you have made yours, at least for my part I will have to agree to disagree, less a continued argument should “ruin those who listen”. Now at the same time, if something I presented is unclear I will happily try to explain it to the best of my abilities. My position – Wm Wm  I appreciate that, some that don't agree will me start calling me names, you are a fine Christian and that I do appreciate…..Good luck to you and Happy New Year, Peace to you Irene

Thank you Irene,
I try only to fulfill scripture.

Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble. 9 Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult. On the contrary, repay evil with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.

The best to you and Georg

[david]

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Plus his body would have been different I'm sure..We don't know how he looked when he was raised because it doesnt say.

–shimmer.

Hi Shimmer. We started this discussion because you said I should stop being a JW and I think you gave 2 reasons and one of them was this belief. However, you do not want to really discuss this. At least, you do not want to attempt an answer at my questions.

As for your saying above that “his body would have been different,” what I'm saying is, “his body was different.”

Sounds similar doesn't it. Being raised a spirit, as the Bible says, he took on different bodies to make plain that he was a spirit and no longer a human.
Why do you think his body would have been different, as you say?

Quote

shimmer did you see the answer David gived to you ?? about this subject

–terricca

Shimmer. I addressed the one point you made in my very long post.

But, can you address the many scriptures that point agaisnt what you say? Can you explain those other puzzling things, like jesus disciples being afraid to ask him who he was?

No, you can't. Or at least, don't want to….because you don't have answers.

[david]

The above is taken from around page 99

[david]

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Terrarica, I will (answer) tomorrow…iv ran out time. Ok…bye.

–shimmer

It is a good question, and like others, I don't think you have answered this one either. (I only looked through 5 pages, so forgive me if I'm wrong.)

As Pierre (and I) asked:

Quote

the big argument is Christ sacrifice of his live as a men his body and blood ,go read the last scene he explain it. go to the law book and you would see that wen you make a sacrifice to God you can not take it back, ok ,why would he take it back?? answer that question

[david]

Shimmer, also, there is no need to continually tell me about JW's or how you are nice to them, but don't want to be one. I understand that. But you stated that this was one key reason, so doesn't it make sense to discuss the actual reason?

[david]

I think this scripture is relevant:

“there are heavenly bodies, and earthly bodies; but the glory of the heavenly bodies is one sort, and that of the earthly bodies is a different sort.”—1Co 15:39, 40.

[david]

Quote

But for you to call me “weak” and “afraid” when you won't even attempt to answer David's post is a little unusual, IMO.

–Mike. (page 105)

Yes, it's not just me that thinks it's odd shimmer doesn't really address my post.

If I make my posts all encompasingly long people only pick the easy point they disagree with.
If I make short posts, things go off topic and we never get to 3/4 of the reasons i believe what I do.

[shimmer]

No, David, I walk away from this thread and from this forum. People here like Pierre arent worth the bother with his insults, and Mike, why did you tile JA for every insult He gave you and not TILE Piere ? Pretty strange if you ask me.

[david]

Quote

You would have to ask, why did Jesus come “in the flesh” in the first place?

I believe it was to give his human life as a “ransom” sacrifice Georg.

I haven't seen any movies where a ransom is given and then taken back. A ransom is something given in exchange. He gave up his perfect human life, his human body. He did not then forfeit the ransom and take it back.

[david]

Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 01 2011,17:56)

No, David, I walk away from this thread and from this forum. People here like Pierre arent worth the bother with his insults, and Mike, why did you tile JA for every insult He gave you and not TILE Piere ? Pretty strange if you ask me.

Hi Shimmer.

I did not state that you walked away from this thread or forum.

I (and others) stated that most of my questions were not answered because they are impossible for you to answer given your belief.

[david]

Quote (david @ Jan. 01 2011,17:31)

Quote Terrarica, I will (answer) tomorrow…iv ran out time. Ok…bye. –shimmer It is a good question, and like others, I don't think you have answered this one either.  (I only looked through 5 pages, so forgive me if I'm wrong.) As Pierre (and I) asked: Quote the big argument is Christ sacrifice of his live as a men his body and blood ,go read the last scene he explain it. go to the law book and you would see that wen you make a sacrifice to God you can not take it back, ok ,why would he take it back?? answer that question

Shimmer, this question for example. We see that terricca asks the same question, so it is one that should be addressed I think.

You said you would answer her the next day, but never did.

Is that because there is no answer that lines up with both scripture and your beliefs?

If you did not answer her because of personal reasons, why did you not answer me?

[david]

Quote (david @ Dec. 23 2010,15:50)

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 20 2010,18:34) David, I have looked at that verse and I won't pretend that I have all of the answers because I don't.   I do know that Jesus wasn't recognized at first, and this is simply because they were blinded with grief. It say's in Luke 24 that “Their eyes were kept from recognizing him”. But then further on….”Their eyes were opened, and they recognized him,” Nothing hard to understand about that. They thought Jesus was dead at the time and they were grieving.   Mary didn't recognise him either, she thought he was the gardener. Apparently it was early in the morning and still dark and she thought Jesus was dead. She wasn't exactly expecting him to be walking around alive was she ? She was grieving and when you are grieving it is as if your eyes are closed to everything else around you. Jesus said….their sorrow would turn into joy. So, David, think about the other thing I said, on the other thread, finding a better church. Hi Shimmer.  You don't think this is the only reason we believe he was raised a spirit do you?   I realize that on many occasions, after his resurrection, people did not recognize him and it states that they eyes were kept from recognizing him. Quote I have looked at that verse and I won't pretend that I have all of the answers because I don't. The thing is, I am not puzzled by this verse at all.  It fits in perfectly with the many scriptures that speak about his resurrection. But before considering the many scriptures that actually indicate he was raised as a spirit, let's look at this scripture a little more. “After these things Jesus manifested himself again to the disciples at the sea of Ti·beri·as; but he made the manifestation in this way.” (John 21:1) The disciples had been fishing through the night.  It was just getting to be morning, and Jesus was standing on the beach.  (I’m curious as to where Jesus was in between these appearances.  He seems to pop out of nowhere and vanish just the same.)  Anyway, we are told the disciples did not discern that it was Jesus. (John 21:4) But it was still likely dark and he was 100 yards away.  So that’s completely understandable.  But they could hear his voice. “Then Jesus said to them: “Young children, you do not have anything to eat, do you?” They answered “No!” to him. He said to them: “Cast the net on the right side of the boat and you will find [some].”  Then they cast it, but they were no longer able to draw it in because of the multitude of the fishes. Therefore that disciple whom Jesus used to love said to Peter: “It is the Lord!”” (John 21:5-7) Why hadn’t Jesus followers recognized him as being Jesus sooner?  Would they not have recognized the voice of their master?  And this was “the third time that Jesus appeared to the disciples after his being raised up from the dead.” (John 21:14) This disciple (most likely John) discerned that it was Jesus, not because of recognizing any personal characteristic of Jesus, but after seeing the miracle. After disembarking onto land, Jesus told them to bring some of the fish, and Jesus said: “Come, take your breakfast.” Then what? “Not one of the disciples had the courage to inquire of him: “Who are you?” because they knew it was the Lord.” (John 21:12) Other translations read exactly the same.  Instead of “had the courage to inquire” others say: “dared to ask” or “were in fear of putting the question.” They were lacking courage to ask who this man was.   My question to you Shimmer: If you have a friend that you spend three years with and he goes away for a few days and then comes back, and visits you three times, what possible reason would there for having to ask “Who are you” on the third visit? I have an answer that fits the many scriptures we are about to discuss.  But do you? My question: Why would they ever need to ask that question if he was standing right in front of them?  Standing before them was the one whom they had followed, and learned from.  Why would they ever need to ask that question?  (Also, remember, this is the third time he appeared to the disciples as a group.) “it should be remembered that there was something about the appearance of the risen Jesus which was different enough to make immediate recognition difficult.” http://bible.org/seriespage/exegetical-commentary-john-21 **** So, moving on to the other scriptures that make this understandable: JESUS WAS THE FIRST TO BE RESURRECTED TO SPIRIT LIFE.  OTHERS WERE RESURRECTED BEFORE JESUS, SO WHEN JESUS IS REPEATEDLY SAID TO BE THE “FIRST” TO BE RESURRECTED, IT MUST MEAN THE FIRST IN SOME MANNER. ACTS 26:23 “Christ was to suffer and, as the FIRST to be RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD,” REVELATION 1:5 “and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “The FIRSTBORN FROM THE DEAD,”. . . “ (Also see Rev 1:17,18) 1 CORINTHIANS 15:20 “Christ has been RAISE UP FROM THE DEAD, THE FIRSTFRUITS of those who have fallen asleep [in death].” COLOSSIANS 1:18 “he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the BEGINNING, THE FIRSTBORN FROM THE DEAD, that he might become the one who is FIRST in all things;” (Obviously, he wasn't the first to be resurrected from the dead, so this must be referring to him being the first to be resurrected in a specific way.  Jesus was the first to be resurrected of those who would not have to die again. Also, he was the first to be raised as a spirit person.–1 Peter 3:18) JESUS GAVE UP HIS PERFECT HUMAN LIFE, HIS SOUL, AS A RANDOM SACRIFICE. (If you think Jesus was given that human life back, with his human body, then would this not be like taking the ransom back.  He forfeited, gave up, surrendered his human life.  It was a sacrifice.) 1 TIMOTHY 2:5,6 “…a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all….” MATTHEW 20:28 “…the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his soul a ransom in exchange for many.” COLOSIANS 1:14 “…by means of whom we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of our sins.” TITUS 2:13,14 “…Christ Jesus, who gave himself for us…” JOHN 10:17,18 “I surrender my soul…No man has taken it away from me, but I surrender it of my own initiative.” 1 JOHN 2:2: “He is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins…” A ransom is the price paid to bring about a release or to buy something back. It might be compared to the price paid for the release of a prisoner of war. Second, a ransom is the price that covers, or pays, the cost of something. It is similar to the price paid to cover the damages caused by an injury. For example, if a person causes an accident, he would have to pay an amount that fully corresponds to, or equals, the value of what was damaged. ROMANS 5:12 “Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.” Yes, all of us have inherited sin from Adam. Hence, the Bible says that he “sold” himself and his offspring into slavery to sin and death. (Romans 7:14) JOHN 6:51: “I am the living bread that came down from heaven; if anyone eats of this bread he will live forever; and, for a fact, the bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.” (Having given it, Jesus does not take it back again. He does not thereby deprive mankind of the benefits of the sacrifice of his perfect human life.) HEBREWS 10:10 “We have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ONCE FOR ALL TIME.” (Having given up his flesh for the life of the world, Christ could never take it again and become a man once more. For that basic reason his return could never be in the human body that he sacrificed once for all time.) Many persons believe that Christ took his fleshly body to heaven. They point to the fact that when Christ was raised from the dead, his fleshly body was no longer in the tomb. (Mark 16:5-7) Also, after his death Jesus appeared to his disciples in a fleshly body to show them that he was alive. Once He even had the apostle Thomas put his hand into the hole in His side so that Thomas would believe that He had actually been resurrected. (John 20:24-27) Does this not prove that Christ was raised alive in the same body in which he was put to death? JOHN 14:19: “A little longer and the world will behold me no more, but you [Jesus’ faithful apostles] will behold me, because I live and you will live.” (Jesus had promised his apostles that he would come again and take them to heaven to be with him. They could see him because they would be spirit creatures as he is. But the world would not see him again. Compare 1 Timothy 6:16.) ACTS 10:40, 41 “God raised this One [Jesus Christ] up on the third day and granted him to become manifest, not to all the people, but to witnesses appointed beforehand by God.” (Why did not others see him too? Because he was a spirit creature and when, as angels had done in the past, he materialized fleshly bodies to make himself visible, he did so only in the presence of his disciples.) 2 CORINTHIANS 5:16 “Even if we have known Christ according to the flesh, certainly we now know him so no more.” ACTS 13:34: “He [God] resurrected him [Jesus] from the dead destined no more to return to corruption.” (Human bodies are by nature corruptible. That is why 1 Corinthians 15:42, 44 uses the word “corruption” in parallel construction with “physical body.” Jesus will never again have such a body.) Illustration: If a man pays a debt for a friend but then promptly takes back the payment, obviously the debt continues. Likewise, if, when he was resurrected, Jesus had taken back his human body of flesh and blood, which had been given in sacrifice to pay the ransom price, what effect would that have had on the provision he was making to relieve faithful persons of the debt of sin? Jesus gave “his soul as a ransom in exchange for many.” (Mt 20:28) He was a “corresponding ransom for all.” (1 Tim 2:6) If someone kidnaps your daughter and demands a ransom price, and you pay it to get your daughter back….do you then get the money back when it's all done?  Does it ever work that way? 1 CORINTHIANS 15:45 “It is even so written: “The first man Adam became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.” 1 TIM 3:16 “‘He was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, ” 1 PETER 3:18 (NASB) “For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;”[“in the spirit,” NE, AT, JB, Dy RS] (At his resurrection from the dead, Jesus was brought forth with a spirit body. In the Greek text the words “flesh” and “spirit” are put in contrast to each other, and both are in the dative case; so, if a translator uses the rendering “by the spirit” he should also consistently say “by the flesh,” or if he uses “in the flesh” he should also say “in the spirit.”) Before his ascension to heaven Christ, as a mighty, immortal spirit person, did materialize various fleshly bodies to suit the occasion, for the purpose of giving to his disciples visible, palpable evidence of his resurrection.—Joh 20:13-17, 25-27; 21:1, 4; Lu 24:15, 16. The Bible is very clear when it says: “Christ died once for all time concerning sins . . . , he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.” (1 Peter 3:18) Humans with flesh-and-blood bodies cannot live in heaven. Of the resurrection to heavenly life, the Bible says: “It is sown a physical body, it is raised up a spiritual body. . . . flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom.” (1 Corinthians 15:44-50) Only spirit persons with spiritual bodies can live in heaven. 1 CORINTHIANS 15:42-50, RS: “So is it with the resurrection of the dead. What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable. . . . It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body. . . . Thus it is written, ‘The first man Adam became a living being’; the last Adam [Jesus Christ, who was a perfect human as Adam had been at the start] became a life-giving SPIRIT. . . . I tell you this, brethren: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.” (Caps added) It is true that Jesus appeared in physical form to his disciples after his resurrection. But on certain occasions, WHY DID THEY NOT AT FIRST RECOGNIZE HIM? (Luke 24:15-32; John 20:14-16) After Jesus’ resurrection MARY MISTOOK HIM for the gardener. (Joh 20:14, 15) On one occasion, for the benefit of Thomas, Jesus appeared with the physical evidence of nail prints in his hands and a spear wound in his side. But HOW WAS IT POSSIBLE ON THAT OCCASION FOR HIM TO SUDDENLY APPEAR IN THEIR MIDST EVEN THOUGH THE DOORS WERE LOCKED? (John 20:24-29) Jesus evidently materialized bodies on these occasions, as angels had done in the past when appearing to humans. Luke 24:36-39: “While they [the disciples] were speaking of these things he himself stood in their midst and said to them: ‘May you have peace.’ But because they were terrified, and had become frightened, they were imagining they beheld a spirit. So he said to them: ‘Why are you troubled, and why is it doubts come up in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; feel me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you behold that I have.’” Humans cannot see spirits, so the disciples evidently thought they were seeing an apparition or a vision that had appeared in this locked room. (Compare Mark 6:49, 50.) Jesus assured them that he was no apparition; they could see his body of flesh and could touch him, feeling the bones; he also ate in their presence. Similarly, in the past, angels had materialized in order to be seen by men; they had eaten, and some had even married and fathered children. (Gen. 6:4; 19:1-3) Following his resurrection, Jesus did not always appear in the same body of flesh (perhaps to reinforce in their minds the fact that he was then a spirit), and so he was not immediately recognized even by his close associates. (John 20:14, 15; 21:4-7) However, by his repeatedly appearing to them in materialized bodies and then saying and doing things that they would identify with the Jesus they knew, he strengthened their faith in the fact that he truly had been resurrected from the dead. Several times he manifested himself and WAS RECOGNIZED, NOT BY HIS APPEARANCE, BUT BY HIS WORDS AND ACTIONS. (Lu 24:15, 16, 30, 31, 36-45; Mt 28:16-18) Once a miracle performed at his direction opened his disciples’ eyes to his identity. Interestingly, although the physical body was not left by God in the tomb (evidently to st rengthen the conviction of the disciples that Jesus had actually been raised), the linen cloths in which it had been wrapped were left there; YET, THE RESURRECTED JESUS ALWAYS APPEARED FULLY CLOTHED.—John 20:6, 7. Jesus, having been resurrected as a spirit (1Pe 3:18), could materialize a body for the occasion as the angels did in past times, when they appeared as messengers. (Ge 18:2; 19:1, 12; Jos 5:13, 14; Jg 13:3, 6; Heb 13:2) During the days before the Flood, the angels that “did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place” performed an incarnation and married human wives. That these angelic sons of God were not truly human but had materialized bodies is shown by the fact that the Flood did not destroy these angels, but they dematerialized and returned to the spirit realm.—Jude 6; Ge 6:4; 1Pe 3:19, 20; 2Pe 2:4. WHERE DID HIS BODY GO? The physical body of Jesus Christ was not allowed to decay into dust as did the bodies of Moses and David, men who were used to foreshadow Christ. (De 34:5, 6; Ac 13:35, 36; 2:27, 31) When his disciples went to the tomb early on the first day of the week, Jesus’ body had disappeared, and the bandages with which his body had been wrapped were left in the tomb, his body doubtless having been disintegrated without passing through the process of decaying.—Joh 20:2-9; Lu 24:3-6. Disposing of Jesus’ physical body at the time of his resurrection presented no problem for God.  Why did God do this? It fulfilled what had been written in the Bible. (Psalm 16:10; Acts 2:31) Thus Jehovah saw fit to remove Jesus’ body, even as he had done before with Moses’ body. (Deuteronomy 34:5, 6) Also, if the body had been left in the tomb, Jesus’ disciples could not have understood that he had been raised from the dead, since at that time they did not fully appreciate spiritual things. But since the apostle THOMAS was able to put his hand into the hole in Jesus’ side, does that not show that Jesus was raised from the dead in the same body that was nailed to the stake? No, for Jesus simply materialized or took on a fleshly body, as angels had done in the past. In order to convince Thomas of who He was, He used a body with wound holes. He appeared, or seemed to be, fully human, able to eat and drink, just as did the angels that Abraham once entertained.—Genesis 18:8; Hebrews 13:2. While Jesus appeared to Thomas in a body similar to the one in which He was put to death, He also took on different bodies when appearing to His followers. Thus Mary Magdalene at first thought that Jesus was a gardener. And remember, at other times his disciples did not at first recognize him. In these instances it was not his personal appearance that served to identify him, but it was some word or action that they recognized.—John 20:14-16; 21:6, 7; Luke 24:30, 31. LUKE 24:31-35 “…and he disappeared from them. And they said to each other: “Were not our hearts burning as he was speaking to us on the road, as he was fully opening up the Scriptures to us?” And in that very hour they rose and returned to Jerusalem, and they found the eleven and those with them assembled together, saying: “For a fact the Lord was raised up and he appeared to Simon!” Now they themselves related the [events] on the road and how he became known to them by the breaking of the loaf.” Shimmer, I'd like to discuss the above scriptures.  I was wondering if we could begin with this: MARK 16:12 KING JAMES “After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country.” Mark 16:12 DOUAY VERSION “And after that he appeared in another shape to two of them walking, as they were going into the country.” (Also appears this way in Latin Vulgate; German Luther Bible; Contemporary English Version; New International Version; New American Standard Version.  Most Bible’s translate this “form.”) The Greek word there translated “shape” is morphé, which the Greek-English Lexicon says means “form, shape, fashion, appearance.” Mark tells us that Jesus appeared “in a different form (morphe)” to these two men so that they did not recognize him.  This is very clear.  He simply had a different outward appearance. Shimmer, how would you explain that? david.

Quote

My question to you Shimmer: If you have a friend that you spend three years with and he goes away for a few days and then comes back, and visits you three times, what possible reason would there for having to ask “Who are you” on the third visit?

I originally put the following in italics because I really wonder how others would answer this.

[shimmer]

David, No, you didn't state that i'm walking away but i'm saying it. Nothing to do with you at all, dont worry. Just how I feel at the moment.

I have already answered all that I have to David, you either believe what Jesus said or you don't. “See my hands and my feet, that it is truly me. Touch me and see, for a spirit doesn't have flesh and bones, as you see that I have.” There, that's all you need to know. You either believe Jesus or you don't. I have nothing more to say.

[david]

In answer to the question of this thread, spirits have spirit bodies.

[david]

Quote

I have already answered all that I have to David,

–shimmer

Shimmer, you don't have to answer anything.

In fact, my whole point is that there are many things you can't answer because your belief on this is incorrect and unscriptural.

You originally brought it up. So, I thought you could or would want to discuss it in some detail. My apologies.

[david]

Quote

“See my hands and my feet, that it is truly me. Touch me and see, for a spirit doesn't have flesh and bones, as you see that I have.” There, that's all you need to know. You either believe Jesus or you don't.

–shimmer

FALLACY ALERT!!!

“God is my rock.”
“So, you either believe he is a rock or you don't and end of story.”
Wrong.

“that's all you need to know.” is wrong. You should know the whole Bible or at least related scriptures. When someone has a belief and wraps it around one scripture only and closes their eyes to all other scriptures, then something is wrong with that persons thinking.

See numerous scriptures above. See explanation of your scripture above.

[david]

Luke 24:36-39: “While they [the disciples] were speaking of these things he himself stood in their midst and said to them: ‘May you have peace.’ But because they were terrified, and had become frightened, they were imagining they beheld a spirit. So he said to them: ‘Why are you troubled, and why is it doubts come up in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; feel me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you behold that I have.’”
Humans cannot see spirits, so the disciples evidently thought they were seeing an apparition or a vision that had appeared in this locked room. (Compare Mark 6:49, 50.) Jesus assured them that he was no apparition; they could see his body of flesh and could touch him, feeling the bones; he also ate in their presence. Similarly, in the past, angels had materialized in order to be seen by men; they had eaten, and some had even married and fathered children. (Gen. 6:4; 19:1-3) Following his resurrection, Jesus did not always appear in the same body of flesh (perhaps to reinforce in their minds the fact that he was then a spirit), and so he was not immediately recognized even by his close associates. (John 20:14, 15; 21:4-7)

[shimmer]

David, your just quoting from the watchtower.

Quote (david @ Jan. 01 2011,20:18)

Luke 24:36-39: “While they [the disciples] were speaking of these things he himself stood in their midst and said to them: ‘May you have peace.’ But because they were terrified, and had become frightened, they were imagining they beheld a spirit. So he said to them: ‘Why are you troubled, and why is it doubts come up in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; feel me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you behold that I have.’” Humans cannot see spirits, so the disciples evidently thought they were seeing an apparition or a vision that had appeared in this locked room. (Compare Mark 6:49, 50.) Jesus assured them that he was no apparition; they could see his body of flesh and could touch him, feeling the bones; he also ate in their presence. Similarly, in the past, angels had materialized in order to be seen by men; they had eaten, and some had even married and fathered children. (Gen. 6:4; 19:1-3) Following his resurrection, Jesus did not always appear in the same body of flesh (perhaps to reinforce in their minds the fact that he was then a spirit), and so he was not immediately recognized even by his close associates. (John 20:14, 15; 21:4-7)

Was Jesus raised in a body of flesh,
Official Answer published by Watchtower Bible & Tract Society
Reasoning From the Scriptures, Page 334-335

1 Pet. 3:18: “Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, that he might lead you to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit [“by the Spirit,” KJ; “in the spirit,” RS, NE, Dy, JB].” (At his resurrection from the dead, Jesus was brought forth with a spirit body. In the Greek text the words “flesh” and “spirit” are put in contrast to each other, and both are in the dative case; so, if a translator uses the rendering “by the spirit” he should also consistently say “by the flesh,” or if he uses “in the flesh” he should also say “in the spirit.”)
Acts 10:40, 41: “God raised this One [Jesus Christ] up on the third day and granted him to become manifest, not to all the people, but to witnesses appointed beforehand by God.” (Why did not others see him too? Because he was a spirit creature and when, as angels had done in the past, he materialized fleshly bodies to make himself visible, he did so only in the presence of his disciples.)
1 Cor. 15:45: “It is even so written: ‘The first man Adam became a living soul.’ The last Adam [Jesus Christ, who was perfect as was Adam when created] became a life-giving spirit.”
What does Luke 24:36-39 mean regarding the body in which Jesus was resurrected?
Luke 24:36-39: “While they [the disciples] were speaking of these things he himself stood in their midst and said to them: ‘May you have peace.’ But because they were terrified, and had become frightened, they were imagining they beheld a spirit. So he said to them: ‘Why are you troubled, and why is it doubts come up in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; feel me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you behold that I have.’”
Humans cannot see spirits, so the disciples evidently thought they were seeing an apparition or a vision. (Compare Mark 6:49, 50.) Jesus assured them that he was no apparition; they could see his body of flesh and could touch him, feeling the bones; he also ate in their presence. Similarly, in the past, angels had materialized in order to be seen by men; they had eaten, and some had even married and fathered children. (Gen. 6:4; 19:1-3) Following his resurrection, Jesus did not always appear in the same body of flesh (perhaps to reinforce in their minds the fact that he was then a spirit), and so he was not immediately recognized even by his close associates. (John 20:14, 15; 21:4-7) However, by his repeatedly appearing to them in materialized bodies and then saying and doing things that they would identify with the Jesus they knew, he strengthened their faith in the fact that he truly had been resurrected from the dead.
If the disciples had actually seen Jesus in the body that he now has in heaven, Paul would not later have referred to the glorified Christ as being “the exact representation of [God’s] very being,” because God is a Spirit and has never been in the flesh.—Heb. 1:3; compare 1 Timothy 6:16.
When reading the reports of Jesus’ postresurrection appearances, we are helped to understand them properly if we keep in mind 1 Peter 3:18 and 1 Corinthians 15:45,

[kerwin]

Irene,

The implication of your words is that you do not believe Scripture when it declares all flesh is not the same. Do you believe the flesh and blood of a pine tree are the same as the flesh and blood of a maple tree? They are not as the maple tree blood can be made syrup while the pine tree sap is more of a glue or sealant. The flesh is quite different as well one being considered hard and the other soft. Since they are both perishable they cannot inherit the imperishable. There is no scripture that states the material cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven though you appear to be saying that.

I had not heard your explanation that Jesus magnified into his flesh body when resolving the situation of his student’s fear of ghosts. I assume you mean to intensify as no other definition fits the context would mean it exits. I am not sure you mean that though. I believe instead that you mean that he took on flesh. Let’s say you are correct. The flesh he took on is obviously not natural flesh as it bears wounds without bleeding or dying. If it is not natural then what kind of flesh did he take on as not all flesh is the same? In fact like the example of the pine tree and maple tree above the flesh you state he took on does not have the same characteristics as the natural flesh of those in the church of Corinth who read or heard read Paul’s letter. So I ask “why would Paul be speaking of the flesh Jesus took on not entering the kingdom of heaven?” Would he not instead be speaking of the natural flesh of those he addressed?

There is nowhere in scripture that speaks of Jesus either putting on or taking off flesh but scripture does tell us that God closed Balaam’s eyes to the presence of an angel. We are also told God prevented two of Jesus’ students from recognizing him even as he traveled with them. In fact we do not know the characteristics of the flesh Jesus was wearing though we can speculate based on observations. Perhaps one characteristic of such a body is that it can go out of phase with matter and so pass through it. An alternative characteristic is that it can become immaterial or material according to the will of the one who it houses.

Note: This is a continuation of a discussion started on the preexistence part 2 thread.

[kerwin]

David,

Your tenet that Jesus is immaterial is wrapped around your chosen interpretation of one scripture.

[Author]

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