Do spirits have bodies?

[Istari]

Excellent presentation, Shimmer.

Only one point of order: say, 'A spirit does not have flesh and bone AS YOU SEE I HAVE' as opposed to '…like I have' because although the general meaning is the same, there are those who can see and seize on possible ambiguity – and claim that Jesus was saying that a Spirit does not have Flesh and blood LIKE HIS…!! see the problem? They will say that Spirits then do have Flesh and Bone – but just NOT LIKE JESUS HAS! (What other kind of Flesh and Bone is there…?)

Also, Irene brings SACRIFICE into the equation where there was no discussion on this topic in this thread.

Was not the Sacrifice given in his Death – Death of a Sinless one for ALL MANKIND?
What is SPILT during Animal Sacrifice: Is it not the blood? And did not Jesus EXPLICITLY say 'FLESH and BONE' And not 'FLESH and BLOOD' as is said elsewhere??

Irene also says that Jesus was NOT RAISED PHYSICALL (In Body) from the Dead?

Does not Scriptures say that he (Ha : Also SHE!!!) that does not believe in the raising of the dead is an AntiChrist – and what use was the baptism for the dead if the dead do not rise?
Much more on that but that is not what is being discussed in this thread…

Mikeboll : Noted absence from the Spiritual assembly:

“Dearly beloved – we are gathered here today to mourn the near closure of our dearly loved discussion on 'Do Spirits have Bodies? – What about God'

The discussion has brought to our attention many aspects of Spiritualness that we failed to bear in mind and soul prior (and no doubt , latterly).

It has also shown how many among us, while have heartfelt feelings for their own interpretation of the Holy Scriptures and the exposition of grace through the testament of Christ, will go beyond the bounds of innocent errors to attenmpt to force their out if synch ideas on others – indeed to DELIBERATELY MISLEAD others away from truth in a bid to win base level 'points' – I think they are called 'browny points' – (you won't know it but I just paused for a while considering another meaning of 'Browny…)!

So, now we have broken the back of what it means to be SPIRITUAL, and while it quite rightly COULD pertain to 'Of the Spirit' (Meaning: 'Of the BEING of a SPIRIT), as one here uses as his ONLY TENUOUS LINK to Credibility, it can be seen that the 99.99% of other usage does not hold with that one's interpretation.

Indeed, when asked to present even A SINGLE SENTENCE using the term 'SPIRITUAL' by his understanding, it was refused (By it's sbsence).

Yet, without being requested, there were MANY and VARIOUS presentations of SPIRITUAL X's and SPIRITUAL Y's which were all in full harmony with the understanding of the term as by common usage AND by Scriptural verse references.

Additionally, the explicit term: 'Spiritual Body' was shown over and over (And Not by repeated misrepresentation as by Irene) to mean 'A body, flesh and blood/Bone, that IS HOLY, not base and desirous of the sinful things as of the NATURAL BODY' (Yes, Irene, 'It is SOWN a NATURAL BODY, it is RAISED a SPIRITUAL BODY' – what is the IT that is sown – and what is the IT that is RAISED?)

So, dear brothers and sisters, a conclusion is pending but some here desire up-ending that which is Truth fearing for their credibility – let it be known to these that there is NO CREDIBILITY in speaking against the SPIRIT OF TRUTH – in fact, there is much DANGER… and to you we appeal to 'Come out of her – lest you join in her sins, sorrow and destruction at the last'.

Here endeth the sermon for today”

[Pastry]

Quote (shimmer @ July 08 2011,22:30)

Irene, Jesus showed his hands and feet after the ressurection and said  'Look – touch me and see – a spirit does not have flesh and bone like I have” Thats what JESUS said. Irene, youv'e been reading too many books and magazines. Have faith and believe what Jesus said. What you state – that they never recognised him – is just what the JWs told me.  But Jesus was risen from the dead. He was not just a spirit appearing as if he were a Ghost.

Shimmer! If you only understood what a ransom is, you would also understand that Jesus flesh and blood body had to stay dead. He appeared by closed doors. You too limiting Jesus that He cannot manifest Himself into Human body to show that He did rose from the death. Maria Magdalene did not even recognize Jesus and thought it was a Gardner. And so did those who walked with Jesus. Only when He broke bread, He LET THEM SEE, that it was Jesus.,.
If He would have been resurrected in His old fleshly body, we would forever stay death. Because the ransom would be void…
Tell me something, did Jesus then go to Heaven and is seated next to His Father, on His Throne, in that fleshly body? Is that what you believe? If so then the Scripture that says this

1Cr 15:50 ¶ Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

would be also wrong….

And this would be wrong.

Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

What was the glory Jesus had with His Father before the world was? And God also created all through Jesus. To do so He had to be a Spirit Being, or had to have a Spiritual body….
like this Scripture says
1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

And He would not be able to do this either, because in Heaven only a Spirit being dwells…the glory He had with His Father.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

All this would have to be false
.
And I don't read any magazine…We don't ever get any….. It is Gods Holy Spirit that has revealed this to my Husband and I learned it from Him, and I agree with it……You are assuming a lot, my friend…..
Peace and Love Irene

[Pastry]

Quote

Irene also says that Jesus was NOT RAISED PHYSICALL (In Body) from the Dead?

Istari!
And that body went to Heaven and is seated at the right hand of His Father?  Is that what you want me to believe?  

Irene

[terraricca]

istari

Quote

Here endeth the sermon for today”

and as blind like a bat.as learn nothing of God but sticks with what is of men.

[Istari]

Terraricca,

I don't see what you are trying to say…

[Istari]

Irene,

It is impossible to understand what you believe.

I cannot understand what logic you use to present your claims because not of it makes any sense.

[terraricca]

Quote (Istari @ July 09 2011,16:03)

Terraricca, I don't see what you are trying to say…

istari

the way it looks you never will'

Pierre

[Istari]

In fact, Irene, there is no point in your presentation as they are so far from anything that Scriptures says concerning this issue I can only imagine that the 'GOD' that revealed these things to you and your husband is not the same 'God' that Scriotures speaks of as Almighty – but the 'other God' who is misleading the whole world…

Did your 'God' tell you that 'Celestial Bodies' were 'Angels/Spirits'?
Did your 'God' tell you that 'Terrestrial Bodies' are 'Sun, Moon and Stars'?
Did your 'God' tell you that 'SPIRITUAL' and 'SPIRIT' are the same thing (Interchangeably)?
Did your 'God' direct you to present a single sentence using the term 'Spiritual' that shows it meaning 'Spirit Being' (What is a 'Spiritual Man' or a 'Spiritual Mind'?)
Did your 'God' lead you to an understanding of Galatians 6:1?
Did your 'God' tell you to say that Jesus' body did not rise from the dead – yet the Apostles all testify to this reality along with at least 500 others – as well as the most famous and conclusive proof to Thomas (As Jesus knew many would also imitate) “See, I am NOT A SPIRIT…”
Did your 'God' tell you that Flesh and Bone bodies go up to Heaven? Yet Jesus was RAISED BACK TO LIFE INTO A FLESH AND BONE BODY… but is now SPIRIT…
Irene, I see you are 'embracing' the 'Materialising of the Body' so you are one step ahead of Mikeboll.
Yes, Irene, but Jesus PUT OFF his immortal body of flesh and blood to ENTER HEAVEN and PUTS IT ON again when he returns for the body itself cannot enter the Spirit realm.
The Natural body is NOTHING to the Spirit except an emcumberance: the body needs caring for, needs feeding, needs washing, gets tired, needs sleep, has possible wrongful desires, can decay…none of this is relevant to the spirit.
But the Spiritual Body, is a glorious body that cannot die, decay, does not REQUIRE FOOD (But CAN enjoy it) does not need rest (But CAN appreciate it), does not need sleep (but can do so at will), has no wrongful desires (Can – but does not and never will)
Irene, are SPIRITS 'Born'.
How is MAN 'Born' again (as Jesus told Nicodemus).
How was Lazarus RAISED from the dead? Was it not in his physical body – was Jesus not troubled in himself knowing that was what he was to face?

And, Irene, you are COMPLETELY WRONG concerning the Sacrifice.

This is an illusion and an aberration that you – and you alone have brought to the table – and, it has no place in this thread – it has NO RELEVANCE to this topic!

[shimmer]

Terrarica,

2 John 1:7

For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who don't confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the Antichrist.

The word used  here 'came' – or in other verses 'is come'  – is used, not just as Jesus Christ came, but also came – as risen from the dead in the flesh, and is to come again in the flesh. So, by condeming others who DO believe Jesus came, was risen, and will come again in the flesh, you may also be condeming the truth as taught by the Apostles and Jesus Christ himself. And you are yourself, it seems, choosing instead, the teachings of MEN.

Commentary:

Is come (ἐρχόμενον)

Wrong. The verb is in the present participle, coming, which describes the manhood of Christ as still being manifested. See on 1 John 3:5. In 1 John 4:2 we have the manifestation treated as a past fact by the perfect tense, ἐληλυθο.τα has come. Rev., that Jesus Christ cometh. So in 1 Thessalonians 1:10, τῆς ὀργῆς τῆς ἐρχομένης is the wrath which is coming; which has already begun its movement and is advancing: not merely, as A.V., the wrath to come, which makes it wholly a future event. See on lingereth, 2 Peter 2:3.

[terraricca]

Quote (shimmer @ July 09 2011,16:58)

Terrarica, 2 John 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who don't confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the Antichrist. The word used  here 'came' – or in other verses 'is come'  – is used, not just as Jesus Christ came, but also came – as risen from the dead in the flesh, and is to come again in the flesh. So, by condeming others who DO believe Jesus came, was risen, and will come again in the flesh, you may also be condeming the truth as taught by the Apostles and Jesus Christ himself. And you are yourself, it seems, choosing instead, the teachings of MEN. Commentary: Is come (ἐρχόμενον) Wrong. The verb is in the present participle, coming, which describes the manhood of Christ as still being manifested. See on 1 John 3:5. In 1 John 4:2 we have the manifestation treated as a past fact by the perfect tense, ἐληλυθο.τα has come. Rev., that Jesus Christ cometh. So in 1 Thessalonians 1:10, τῆς ὀργῆς τῆς ἐρχομένης is the wrath which is coming; which has already begun its movement and is advancing: not merely, as A.V., the wrath to come, which makes it wholly a future event. See on lingereth, 2 Peter 2:3.

Shimmer

first let see what you say if it is true ;

Quote

and will come again in the flesh

could you show me where it is written that Christ comes back in the flesh ?

you are applying this to me;Terrarica,

2 John 1:7

For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who don't confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the Antichrist

so let see if you are right;so you discuss 2John 1;7

now explain Col1;13=18 just to start

I f you do not answer me then you can apply 2 John 1;7 to your self

Pierre

[Istari]

Terraricca,

On this subject matter – I never want to understand it from your point of view.

Simply speaking : you have no idea what you are saying. In fact, you aren't saying ANYTHING at all.

There is NOTHING that you have ever said regarding this topic that has been useful, instructive, constructive, or revealing.

You just post negativity for the hell of it.

That is why I often refuse to respond to you – you are a waste of time – you say nothing of value… Your SALT is worthless…

Your Salt is like a sand… How does gritty Sand compliment Spiritual food (or any kind of food)?
Sand is for complimenting Concrete but even your sand is the 'Wrong kind of Sand' (You might not understand this – it's a British joke!)

Terraricca, you have not presented anything of value to support anything spoken/written of in this thread.
All you do is say, 'Istari, you are wrong!' yet not a single point is made from you as to WHY?

The reason is SIMPLE : YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT…

And, I notice you do the same in other threads where you just APPEAR IN A THREAD out of no where to LEAVE A DEPOSIT (Ha ha … A little package of ….) and then DISAPPEAR again.
(Your SPIRIT appears in the thread as a BODY of writing)

[shimmer]

Terrarica,

Quote

you are applying this to me;Terrarica, 2 John 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who don't confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the Antichrist so let see if you are right;so you discuss 2John 1;7

Terrarica, please read what I said…

Quote

you are yourself, it seems, choosing instead, the teachings of MEN.

This has to do with belief and doctrine that others teach, I THOUGHT you may have learnt what you believe through the reading of JW literature. But as you point out and Irene has too, you have not. So, ok.

I have nothing further to say, right now.

[shimmer]

Hey Gene how are you. Thanks. And Istari too.

Irene, ok. Well, I'll leave it at that for now… I disagree with your view, as I do with the JWs. But to me they are safer than a lot of things in the world and false teachings, so, I have nothing further to say, for now…

[Istari]

Shimmer,
Who is teaching that Jesus was NOT risen from the dead in the Flesh.

As far as I can see, 99.99% of people say he did. In this forum only the 'Three Kings DISORIENTED ARE' say otherwise…

And that only because they were deluded by their leader, Mikeboll64.

They struggle and have to LIE concerning the Scriptures out of SHAME and GUILT.

Mikeboll left them in the Wilderness where led them but doesn't think to go fetch them back now he realised how wrong he was.

Mikeboll then adopted many things spoken of that he previously denied and is at this moment trying to see how he can work in the rest without exposing his actions.

Ask him to summarise what he believes: oh yes, he'll start, but then realise where it does not fit and he will backtrack or delete the post refusing to answer but only pick anninnocuous and trivial point to throw back.

Shimmer, these 'Three King' KNOW that they are wrong – so nothing said to them will make them admit it.

Terraricca knows NOTHING about what he is saying except that he likes saying 'No, you are wrong' (Should be his signature). He KNOWS he is wrong and that is why he CANNOT present anything of value in this thread.

Has he EVER?

Irene is just confused – so much so that she is confused upon confused – and just blusters from one pointless confusion to another… She believe anything that 'a Man' tells her to. That, by the way, is the start of a Compliant Wife, except that she should also question if there is a GREATER 'Man' to whom she should be wedded and be a greater Compliant 'wife' to?
She says she is led by 'no man' – does that include Jesus? Seems so…

And as for Mikeboll… What has not been said…! A greater wriggler and slitherer away from admittance if his error, basher and slasher of Scripture truths, and hisser and pizzer off of others I have never yet met.

The thread topic is 'Do Spirits have Bodies – what about God?'

Yet, so far, all anyone has managed to dredge up is that 'Jesus has a Body – Jesus is a Spirit'.

These are actually two SEPARATE statements pertaining to two DIFFERENT times.

The 'Kings' here have melded the two truthful statements into a body of untruth for their own ends.

Here is an extrapolated version:
'Jesus has a body ON EARTH' – This was PROVED BEYOND DOUBT.
'Jesus said a body cannot enter Heaven' – This is Scripturally written.
'Jesus is a Spirit IN HEAVEN' – This is taken as truth

So, there is an anomaly: Jesus' body CANNOT have entered Heaven – for HEAVEN is a place for SPIRITS – which are NOT BODIES ('See, I am NOT A SPIRIT…')

Jesus' BODY is VISIBLE and MATERIAL: it was SEEN and TOUCHED.

If Jesus is in Heaven IN THAT BODY then Heaven is a place where things can be SEEN and TOUCHED. Yet we know that Heaven is a place of INVISIBLE and IMMATERIAL beings.

So, what did Jesus do between rising up in the air – and disappearing into the cloud?

This is the crux point. Jesus' BODY disappeared inside the cloud (The Cloud HID his body as it disappeared)
So, Jesus DID NOT ENTER HEAVEN in his BODY BUT 'Out of his body' – the BODY, no matter (ha ha… Shouldn't that be the SPIRIT!!) what is thought of it, is ONLY a CONTAINER . it is the SPIRIT that matters (ha ha – that was deliberate)!

Where was the SPIRIT of Jesus when he died?
Did that Spirit have a body… No one addresses this point?
The BODY of Jesus was RAISED from up. What does this mean 'Raised up'?
Does it not mean that it was made into a LIVEABLE HOUSE for the Spirit?

If the SPIRIT already has a Body then why was it necessary for God to carry out a great miracle of reviving the Fleshly Body. After all, Jesus himself (?) RAISED Lazarus from the dead – and others did the same (An old testament prophet raised the widows Son from the dead and cures the sick and lame long before Jesus did)

In fact, for what purpose are the dead raised (back into their flesh and blood bodies) – for what purpose are the sick, blind and lame healed, if the SPIRITUAL BODY is a SPIRIT BODY?

In fact, this SPIRITUAL BODY being a SPIRIT BODY is at odds with reality…
If the SPIRIT has a Body then what purpose is it given a 'Changed/Transformed' Body of Flesh and blood/Bone?

In fact, what the 'three Kings' are saying is 'NO, the SPIRIT DOES NOT HAVE A BODY – IT IS GIVEN A BODY AT THE RESURRECTION'

Which, by an enormity of coincidence IS EXACTLY WHAT THE ANSWER TO THIS THREAD IS?

The SPIRIT (of man) is given a RESURRECTED BODY (A Sinless, incorruptible, Glorious Body).

If it is GIVEN a Body then it DID NOT HAVE ONE BEFORE IT WAS GIVEN ONE…

But all this is concerning MANKIND – which WAS NOT THE POINT OF THE THREAD.
It came DOWN (!!) to this because the 'three KINGS' could find nothing upon which to base their lies and indecent thoughts.

The THREAD TOPIC is 'Do Spirits (meaning ANGELS) have Bodies?…'

Now since even IRENE now admits to 'Materialising of a Body' we can move forward passed this stumbling block to the Angels, Messenging Spirits from God, MATERIALING a Body IN THE FORM OF A MAN when they come 'Down' into the VISIBLE, Physical and MATERIAL World.

If they MATERIALISE bodies then they DO NOT HAVE BODIES PRIOR TO MATERIALISING THEM.
This is childish kindergarten and base level logic. Why do these three have a problem with it!!

The Bodies or Forms of the Angels are TEMPORARY. They only exist as long as the Angels are in the physical world.

Has anyone been reported as TOUCHING an Angel?

Why did Jesus challenge Thomas to touch him to PROVE that he was NOT A SPIRIT?
It is clear that a Spirit cannot be touched because it is not a REAL BODY and the power in that EMINATION would cause serious harm to the human being if he tried.
Now, an Angel CAN touch a human because the Angel can control it's power such that it does not harm the human – see the difference…?
Who has seen that material that soaks up immense amounts of heat inside itself yet on the outer surface is cool to the touch? Do not 'play' with it – if it's energy were to be unleashed enormous harm would be the result – handle with care or, in fact, not at all with human hands… So to an Angel!

If a Spirit has a BODY, what is the SPIRIT IN THAT BODY?

[shimmer]

Istari, the only place, that I know of, that teaches what Terrarica and Irene is saying is the Jehovahs Witnesses.

Google: jehovahs witnesses jesus raised in spirit ransom

[Pastry]

Quote (shimmer @ July 09 2011,23:06)

Istari, the only place, that I know of, that teaches what Terrarica and Irene is saying is the Jehovahs Witnesses.   Google: jehovahs witnesses jesus raised in spirit ransom

Shimmer!  Not only Pierre and Irene says so, but Scriptures do   I have given you this before.
1Cr 15:42   So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:  

1Cr 15:43   It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:  

1Cr 15:44   It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.  

1Cr 15:45   And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.  

1Cr 15:46   Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.  

1Cr 15:47   The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.  

And neither one of you understands the ransom….

Also the majority of Christians believe in the trinity, does the trinity then make it right?  No….
I go by the Scriptures and not what any man will say.  I did not get it from the JW either.  The Holy Spirit revealed it to me….Funny thing is, Mike believes that Jesus was rose in flesh and body, but later went to Heaven as a Spirit Being.  I disagree with Him also…..So your theory is wrong…
Peace Irene

[Istari]

Irene,
What does 'risen from the dead' or 'raised from the dead' mean to you.

What exactly is 'risen' or 'raised' from the dead?

Was Lazarus RAISED from the dead?
Was the Widows Son raised from the dead?
And the Soldier's daughter?

For what reason were these miracles performed?

And if the Raising of the dead is not physical then for what purpose is there healing of the sick in body and the lame and tbd blind?

Why do we have doctors – why not just die and then sleep until the resurrection and go straight to a Spirit (See how easy it is to say 'Spirit' rather than 'Spiritual' and all the entanglements – if that was what was meant – NART!!!)

[Istari]

Irene,
Why do you bring extraneous points into this thread?

What has the SACRIFICE got to do with raising of the dead: 'For if the dead are not raised then what value was there in baptism for the dead – and all our works have been in vain!'

[Istari]

1 Corinthians 15:29 says:

Quote

Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?

Irene, give me an example of some one from Scriptures who was 'Raised from the dead'.

[Istari]

If Jesus was not raised from the dead – then what was all that which took place…?

I think you are on your own here, madam.

And if Terraricca comes to your aid with his nonsense then he will share in your iniquity.
Although he actually never says WHAT THE PROBLEM IS – he just says 'Hey you guys…whatever you write I'll just say: you are wrong!!'

[Author]

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