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Mike asked:
Quote Where is it written that an angel who sins blasphemes against the Holy Spirit? 2 Peter 2:4
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Jude 1:6
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
These angels are cast into Tartarus and subject to judgment.
Hebrews 9:27
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Those that die descend to Hades and are also subject to judgement.
James 2:19
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Why do the Fallen tremble in their belief?
Hebrews 10:26-27
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Sounds like the devils who having the truth of God willfully chose to sin and now fearfully tremble in their belief in God.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 08 2013,13:01) Mike asked: Quote Where is it written that an angel who sins blasphemes against the Holy Spirit? 2 Peter 2:4
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Jude 1:6
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
These angels are cast into Tartarus and subject to judgment.
Hebrews 9:27
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Those that die descend to Hades and are also subject to judgement.
James 2:19
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Why do the Fallen tremble in their belief?
Hebrews 10:26-27
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Sounds like the devils who having the truth of God willfully chose to sin and now fearfully tremble in their belief in God.
Kerwin.A question is a question and to be answered.
The fallen angels have blasphemed the Holy spirit,because they have known God and lived with God.
They will be judged guilty and destroyed along with satan and his angels.
For your info. there are angels in prison still today.
Some will be let loose in the sixth trumpet,to gather the armies to one place.wakeup.
Wakeup,
I tend to agree with you on these things though I have yet tested them enough to be confident.
The only possible disagreement I see is that I believe Satan and his angels are the fallen angels.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 09 2013,23:20) Wakeup, I tend to agree with you on these things though I have yet tested them enough to be confident.
The only possible disagreement I see is that I believe Satan and his angels are the fallen angels.
kSatan did not corrupt himself with the women of the earth
and not all the corrupted angels have gone to the women of the earth ,
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 10 2013,05:50) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 09 2013,23:20) Wakeup, I tend to agree with you on these things though I have yet tested them enough to be confident.
The only possible disagreement I see is that I believe Satan and his angels are the fallen angels.
kSatan did not corrupt himself with the women of the earth
and not all the corrupted angels have gone to the women of the earth ,
Kerwin.According to Enoch,there were two hundred leaders of
angels, some leaders of ten and some of fifty.
That went down and corrupt themselves.wakeup.
T and Wakeup,
I don't see the book of Enoch that we have today as being uncorrupted. There are two other books of Enoch's and the book of Jubilees that also have the same theme. There is some truth to them.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 11 2013,03:54) T and Wakeup, I don't see the book of Enoch that we have today as being uncorrupted. There are two other books of Enoch's and the book of Jubilees that also have the same theme. There is some truth to them.
Kerwin.I have studied the book of Enoch and found it
to be in harmony with the scriptures.wakeup.
Wakeup………there are some thing in that book as i recall that do not quite line up with some scriptures, can't recall them right now, it wa many years ago i read some of them, but there are some thing that do go along with other scriptures, I think it is not wise to believe everything in it though, i kind of agree with what Kerwin said.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 11 2013,12:08) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 11 2013,03:54) T and Wakeup, I don't see the book of Enoch that we have today as being uncorrupted. There are two other books of Enoch's and the book of Jubilees that also have the same theme. There is some truth to them.
Kerwin.I have studied the book of Enoch and found it
to be in harmony with the scriptures.wakeup.
Wakeup,The giants are a whole lot taller that the post flood giants spoken of in Scripture.
300 cubits tall makes a dinosaur look like a dog in comparison. The largest dinosaur I have heard of is only 120 feet long between 1/4th and 1/3 as large.
The Enoch land of the dead has four sections while Jesus only spoke of it having two.
According to 1st Enoch some of the dead may still repent and that is an idea not supported by Scripture.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 12 2013,05:20) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 11 2013,12:08) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 11 2013,03:54) T and Wakeup, I don't see the book of Enoch that we have today as being uncorrupted. There are two other books of Enoch's and the book of Jubilees that also have the same theme. There is some truth to them.
Kerwin.I have studied the book of Enoch and found it
to be in harmony with the scriptures.wakeup.
Wakeup,The giants are a whole lot taller that the post flood giants spoken of in Scripture.
300 cubits tall makes a dinosaur look like a dog in comparison. The largest dinosaur I have heard of is only 120 feet long between 1/4th and 1/3 as large.
The Enoch land of the dead has four sections while Jesus only spoke of it having two.
According to 1st Enoch some of the dead may still repent and that is an idea not supported by Scripture.
Kerwin.Enoch is one witness to the old world.
The nephilims are tall, he did mention 3000els.
That must be an old measurement.
There is no mercy for the angels that sinned and their children. But for the women;there maybe forgiveness.
They will be judged in the second judgement.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 12 2013,03:30) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 12 2013,05:20) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 11 2013,12:08) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 11 2013,03:54) T and Wakeup, I don't see the book of Enoch that we have today as being uncorrupted. There are two other books of Enoch's and the book of Jubilees that also have the same theme. There is some truth to them.
Kerwin.I have studied the book of Enoch and found it
to be in harmony with the scriptures.wakeup.
Wakeup,The giants are a whole lot taller that the post flood giants spoken of in Scripture.
300 cubits tall makes a dinosaur look like a dog in comparison. The largest dinosaur I have heard of is only 120 feet long between 1/4th and 1/3 as large.
The Enoch land of the dead has four sections while Jesus only spoke of it having two.
According to 1st Enoch some of the dead may still repent and that is an idea not supported by Scripture.
Kerwin.Enoch is one witness to the old world.
The nephilims are tall, he did mention 3000els.
That must be an old measurement.
There is no mercy for the angels that sinned and their children. But for the women;there maybe forgiveness.
They will be judged in the second judgement.wakeup.
Wakeup,The measurement I heard was 300 cubits. Your source seems to be different. Can you give me a link to it?
Wakeup,
Luke 16:19-31
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 and there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 and desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house: 28 for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
In Jesus' description the land of the dead is divided between two parts and those from one cannot pass over into the other. Enoch describes a land that has four parts.
Hebrews 9:27
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
After their dead a human is subject to judgement and so cannot repent. This disagrees with what the current book of Enoch states.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 14 2013,05:51) Wakeup, Luke 16:19-31
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 and there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 and desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house: 28 for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
In Jesus' description the land of the dead is divided between two parts and those from one cannot pass over into the other. Enoch describes a land that has four parts.
Hebrews 9:27
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
After their dead a human is subject to judgement and so cannot repent. This disagrees with what the current book of Enoch states.
Kerwin.Enoch was shown four large pools where all the souls are preserved for judgement.
But dont see it as litteral.
The angels was showing Enoch the spritual; in symbols.Just as Jesus did with the parable of lazarus.
The dead can not see anything in the grave.John 8:53 Art thou greater than
***our father Abraham, which is dead***?
***and the prophets are dead***: whom makest thou
thyself?wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 14 2013,13:09) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 14 2013,05:51) Wakeup, Luke 16:19-31
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 and there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 and desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house: 28 for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
In Jesus' description the land of the dead is divided between two parts and those from one cannot pass over into the other. Enoch describes a land that has four parts.
Hebrews 9:27
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
After their dead a human is subject to judgement and so cannot repent. This disagrees with what the current book of Enoch states.
Kerwin.Enoch was shown four large pools where all the souls are preserved for judgement.
But dont see it as litteral.
The angels was showing Enoch the spritual; in symbols.Just as Jesus did with the parable of lazarus.
The dead can not see anything in the grave.John 8:53 Art thou greater than
***our father Abraham, which is dead***?
***and the prophets are dead***: whom makest thou
thyself?wakeup.
Wakeup,The Land of the Dead is a Jewish teaching that is in Scripture as well. It is called Hell and other things in the AV of the KJB. There are three places called Hell in the AV of the KJB, which can make it hard to understand.
Jesus speaks of the true teaching of the Land of the Dead in his parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Enoch speaks of a corrupted version of the truth with a mixture of truth with untruth.
Souls rest in the Land of the Dead but they are still living and awaiting judgermnet. Some rest in comfort while others rest in torment. On three days Jesus rested in the Land of the Dead and his rest as well as the thief's that died with him was in comfort.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 17 2013,04:04) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 14 2013,13:09) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 14 2013,05:51) Wakeup, Luke 16:19-31
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 and there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 and desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house: 28 for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
In Jesus' description the land of the dead is divided between two parts and those from one cannot pass over into the other. Enoch describes a land that has four parts.
Hebrews 9:27
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
After their dead a human is subject to judgement and so cannot repent. This disagrees with what the current book of Enoch states.
Kerwin.Enoch was shown four large pools where all the souls are preserved for judgement.
But dont see it as litteral.
The angels was showing Enoch the spritual; in symbols.Just as Jesus did with the parable of lazarus.
The dead can not see anything in the grave.John 8:53 Art thou greater than
***our father Abraham, which is dead***?
***and the prophets are dead***: whom makest thou
thyself?wakeup.
Wakeup,The Land of the Dead is a Jewish teaching that is in Scripture as well. It is called Hell and other things in the AV of the KJB. There are three places called Hell in the AV of the KJB, which can make it hard to understand.
Jesus speaks of the true teaching of the Land of the Dead in his parable of Lazarus and the rich man. Enoch speaks of a corrupted version of the truth with a mixture of truth with untruth.
Souls rest in the Land of the Dead but they are still living and awaiting judgermnet. Some rest in comfort while others rest in torment. On three days Jesus rested in the Land of the Dead and his rest as well as the thief's that died with him was in comfort.
Kerwin.That is not what the scriptures teach.
There is a day set;and it's called the day of resurrection of the dead. That will be at the second coming.
1.Jesus first.
2.The twenty four elders.(in heaven now).
3.The sealed 144k.(the first fruit).
4.The majority,after they have gone through the fire.wakeup.
Wakeup,
This is what Jesus teaches.
Luke 16:19-31
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20 and there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21 and desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house: 28 for I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
The place that he speaks of a land of the dead that has two parts. One is full of torment and the those in the other are said to be at Abraham's bosom. It is a time before Judgment Day.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 14 2013,05:32) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 12 2013,03:30) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 12 2013,05:20) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 11 2013,12:08) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 11 2013,03:54) T and Wakeup, I don't see the book of Enoch that we have today as being uncorrupted. There are two other books of Enoch's and the book of Jubilees that also have the same theme. There is some truth to them.
Kerwin.I have studied the book of Enoch and found it
to be in harmony with the scriptures.wakeup.
Wakeup,The giants are a whole lot taller that the post flood giants spoken of in Scripture.
300 cubits tall makes a dinosaur look like a dog in comparison. The largest dinosaur I have heard of is only 120 feet long between 1/4th and 1/3 as large.
The Enoch land of the dead has four sections while Jesus only spoke of it having two.
According to 1st Enoch some of the dead may still repent and that is an idea not supported by Scripture.
Kerwin.Enoch is one witness to the old world.
The nephilims are tall, he did mention 3000els.
That must be an old measurement.
There is no mercy for the angels that sinned and their children. But for the women;there maybe forgiveness.
They will be judged in the second judgement.wakeup.
Wakeup,The measurement I heard was 300 cubits. Your source seems to be different. Can you give me a link to it?
Kerwin.I will do my best to get the link for you.
As far as I know the cubits were not in the old world.
Enoch said 3000els,which is foreign to us.wakeup.
Wakeup,
Ell is a European measurement in English speaking areas. The smallest I have heard is 18″ which would make those giant 10 times larger in the Koine Greek.
Ther are 5 sections.
The Book of Enoch, Section I
http://www.ccel.org/c/charles/otpseudepig/enoch/ENOCH_1.HTM‎BOOK OF ENOCH. From-The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament H.R. Charles Oxford: The Clarendon Press
wakeup.
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