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Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 03 2010,03:05) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 02 2010,19:59) Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 02 2010,06:18) Quote (thethinker @ Feb. 01 2010,22:56) Kerwin said” Quote Jesus did assign another meaning to the word water which is why the Samaritan woman was slow to catch on that he was not speaking of physical water from another source. JESUS DID NOT ASSIGN A DUAL MEANING TO THE WATER IN THE WELL! HE SPOKE OF TWO KINDS OF WATER!
Neither did Jesus assign a dual meaning to the word “body” when He said that He would raise it up in three days.
thinker
So according to you temple does not mean body and water does not mean spirit.Jesus does it again in John 6:26-27
John 6:26-27[NIV) reads:
Quote Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, you are looking for me, not because you saw miraculous signs but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”
By the way you may not be familiar with cultures that believe in magic/miracles. A person could have a jug that is always full of water no matter how much you use. Water that could sate your thirst forever is also possible.
Kerwin,I am not saying that water cannot mean spiritual water. I am saying that the water in the well was not spiritual water and the body which Jesus said He would raise was NOT a spiritual body.
What is it with you anti-trinitarians? If Jesus was the Son of God, then to raise Himself from among the dead was a piece of cake.
thinker
thinkerYou remind me of some one that used scripture, in a perverted way, to tempt Jesus.
Psa 104:29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
Their should not even be a debate of what death is; any one that distorts scripture the way you do should be shunned like the one that tried to tempt Jesus because your agenda is obvious.
Georg
Georg,It says that “THEY die and return to dust” meaning the wicked. Your view of death is the same as the Sadducees. They believed that the spirit ceased after it separated from the body. Jesus didsproved that by saying that God said that He was the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. Then Jesus said, “God is not the God of the dead but of the LIVING.”
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were LIVING after they died. God does not have a covenant with those who have “ceased to exist.”
Just admit it Georg. You side with the Sadducees while Jesus and Paul did not.
thinker
thinker
You may know scripture, but you have no understanding of it.
Why would Jesus say this?Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
When the body dies the first time God preserves the spirit/mind; just as you said in your comparison with the computer; then, at the resurrection the spirit/mind is placed into a new body; whether it is a spirit body or a flesh and blood, human body, does not matter.
This spirit/mind has all your memories, it is not effected when the flesh dies, it can only be destroyed in the second death.
Where do you read only the wicked return to their dust?
Until judgment is past in the millennium, and you are sentenced to death again, second death, we are asleep in death, or alive in Christ, because there will be an awakening from that sleep; that is why Jesus said “God is the God of the living”, even when they are dead, becauseEcc 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
Ecc 3:20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Psa 115:17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
Job 14:15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.
Job 33:25 His flesh shall be fresher than a child's: he shall return to the days of his youth:
Did the Sadducee's believe all this? well I do! how about you, what do you believe?
Georg
Thinker……….Scripture says when a man dies his thought parish, He know nothing . While His spirit can be preserved by GOD , He is in a sleep state, because a Spirit without a body abides alone. and is not actively aware of anything , HE no longer thinks again, Seperately until he is resurected and given a new body and the spirit added back into it, He then becomes a Living Soul again. A resurrection crucial in order for this to happen.
I think the problem here is not truly understanding what spirit really is. Let me give you what i think it is, it is INTELLECT, ALL INTELLECT AND ALWAYS EXISTED IN THE FORM OF KNOWLEDGE. THOUGHTS CAN BE TRANSMITTED TO OTHERS BY WORDS. SPIRIT INTELLECT is the very essence of LIFE ITSELF, without which life does not exist it is what life is. It both creates and sustains LIFE. IT is both Given and taken by ONE GOD. YHWH. When Jesus sent to us the (HOLY SPIRIT) or (INTELLECT)OF TRUTH, IT CAME FROM YHWH not FROM JESUS HIMSELF. SPIRIT BY ITSELF IS USELESS UNLESS IT IS CONNECT WITH A POWER FORCE OF SOME KIND, BECAUSE IT IS PURE THOUGHT AND CAN HAVE NO EFFECT AT ALL UNLESS SOMETHING POWERS IT. Remember when Jesus said when an unclean spirit leaves a man (IT) (this intellect) goes about in (ARID) (or DRY) PLACES looking for REST, Knowledge or intellects do can do nothing out side a body, it abides alone and is useless. But if it enters a body it can and does animate it. WE are ANIMATED by SPIRIT (intellect). One thing we should all remember is that (ALL) KNOWLEDGE or INTELLECT ALWAYS PREEXISTED. THERE IS NOTHING (NEW) UNDER THE SUN. We are vessels that recieve SPIRIT (INTELLECT) into us. Much like drinking Water it goes into us and become part of our system, so it is with SPIRIT (INTELLECT) GOES into our minds and becomes Part of our thinking. SPIRIT IS EVERY THING LIFE CONSISTS OF , “SO A MAN THINKS SO HE IS”. and again “I THINK THEREFORE I AM” ,THAT APPLIES TO YHWH OR MAN. But when a man dies his thinking stops he no longer exists as far as he knows. IMO
gene
what you think only is good for you;
the spirit of men is the” essence” of men, not the intellect.you say;One thing we should all remember is that (ALL) KNOWLEDGE or INTELLECT ALWAYS PREEXISTED. THERE IS NOTHING (NEW) UNDER THE SUN
so you believe in reincarnation??
Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 02 2010,11:56) thinker You may know scripture, but you have no understanding of it.
Why would Jesus say this?Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
GeorgeThe scripture you quote is proof that the Spirit/soul exist without the Body! Your spirit and soul is you if this is not so then when you recieve a new body then it would no longer be you would it?
You are denying Jesus own words that the Spirit/Soul of man is conscious after death in the story of Lazurus and the rich man. IMO.
Blessings WJ
JA said:
Quote This is not the final death. I am not mixing terms and times. The final death is the death of the Spirit but that is at the end of time.
There is no such thing as the death of the spirit. This was the view of the Sadducees. Jesus opposed their teachings.JA:
Quote Please can you post the Scriptres that say that jesus raised himself from the dead as I don't know them, yet!!
How many times must I post them? The statements are in Mark 9:31 and 10:34. Jesus said,…and they will mock Him, and scourge Him, and spit on Him, and kill Him. And the third day He will rise again.” Mark 10:34
The verb form is middle which indicates that Jesus wouild raise HIMSELF again. Click on the link below. Put your arrow on the last word in the verse and a window will appear indicating that the word “to rise” is middle. This indicates that the subject is acting upon Himself. Literally it would read, “And the third day He shall raise HIMSELF again.”
JA:
Quote The answer is in the question: “GOD” raised Jesus from the dead.
You read it through your own eyes.
You write it with your own hand,
You misinterpret it with your own intent.
Explain how I misinterpreted it. I agree that God raised Him from the dead. But that is only half the truth. Jesus said that He would raise Himself again (Mark 9:31; 10:34) and that He would raise up His body. The resurrection of Jesus was the act of the TRIUNE GOD!Hey, it's not I who picks and chooses which scriptures I will accept.
JA:
Quote “Death cannot hold him”: – Death by the Soul came by way of Sin, Sin through Adam – A sinless Soul cannot be held in 'Death'.
King David disagrees with you. Peter said that death could not hold Him and then he quoted the king,24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. 25 For David says concerning Him:
‘ I foresaw the LORD always before my face,
For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad;
Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope.
Death could not hold David's Lord because He was ALWAYS WITHOUT INTERRUPTION at David's right hand as His help and support. Death could not hold Him BECAUSE He was the Son of God!JA:
Quote Deep sigh…! Because this 'proved' Him, categorically, to be 'The Son of God' as had been declared through the Scriptures, by his own testimony, by the testiony of his good works and by the Father, himself, and through the Holy Spirit.
Deep sigh! To the Jew the Son of God was EQUAL with God.18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His own Father, making Himself EQUAL with God. John 5:18
So what's your point?
JA:
Quote 'With Power': Because he was raised by the Holy Spirit and GIVEN THAT Power by Almighty God, His Father.
This is not read as:
“He was raised WITH HIS OWN POWER” but
“He was raised and Given Power” – “Raised INTO [a position of] Power” (Given a position seated at the right hand of God himself)
Total confusion! First, it says, “the Son of God IN power.” Second, the word “spirit” should not be capitalized because it is NOT a reference to the Holy Spirit but to Christ's spirit. He was declared to be the Son of God IN power according to the spirit of holiness (His spirit).Jesus EXPLICITLY said that He had the power to lay His own life down and to take it again. (John 10).
He was raised to the postion that He could freely exercise His power. God did not impart power to Jesus. He gave Jesus the authority to use it. Hebrews 1 says that the Son upholds all things by the word of His power.
JA:
Quote Deeper sigh…! TT, are you really trying to test me?:
Paul was talking figuratively, futuristically. Jesus has conquered death by being raised up by the Holy Spirit to taste death no more. He has become the instrument of resurrection and this WILL HAPPEN so it is a foregone thing.
Then Paul should have said that the Holy Spirit conquered death. But he didn't say that. He said that Jesus Christ abolished death.JA:
Quote Where was this – please quote the chapter and verse(s).
The balloon rose up into the sky… The Balloon rose up into the sky under the influence of the helium within.
The balloon says; “I will rise up to the sky, to the clouds” It didn't mention how?Please post the verses so I can see the context.
Your balloon illustration does not represent the function of the middle voice. The rendering “He shall rise” in our English Bibles is not accurate. It literally reads, “He shall raise Himself again.” It indicates that He is acting UPON HIMSELF.I have been posting the verses in context. Apparently you have not been following the threads.
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 03 2010,04:14) Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 02 2010,11:56) thinker You may know scripture, but you have no understanding of it.
Why would Jesus say this?Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
GeorgeThe scripture you quote is proof that the Spirit/soul exist without the Body! Your spirit and soul is you if this is not so then when you recieve a new body then it would no longer be you would it?
You are denying Jesus own words that the Spirit/Soul of man is conscious after death in the story of Lazurus and the rich man. IMO.
Blessings WJ
Keith,I think Georg takes the annihilationists twist on the word “destroy.” They say that the Greek “apollumi” (destroy) in Matthew 10:28 means annihilation. However, the prodigal son was said to have been “apollumi” (lost). Yet he was not annihilated.
Matthew 10:28:And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy (apollumi) both soul and body in hell.
Luke 15:32-34:It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost (apollumi) and is found.’”
The prodigal son was not annihilated. He was “destroyed” (apollumi) or “lost” from the presence and blessings of his father.
So men are not annihilated. They are “destroyed” (apollumi) or eternally lost from the presence of God.
Even if Georg's inference was correct that “destroyed” means annihilation it would apply only to the wicked. Nothing is said of the righteous being “destroyed” or annihilated or lost.
thinker
TT,
ok, I congratulate you on raising your discussion level to that of middle school level and subdued your usual wayward rantings.
Never the less, you appear to deliberately mis-read , misinterpret or something else so that you can make your points appear valid.
1) Spiritual death. I said this would be at the end. You appear to be trying to make out that I mean at teh point of death of the
Soul. What then happens to the wicked spirit, of angels and Man, at the end of time (to which I actual was refering to:
Death of the Spirit)?2) “He will rise again”: Have you not done this to death and your only thread are these two verses – verses a thousand
(exaggerated for effect) saying God did it. Who do you believer more: God or Jesus? (Don't answer – Just think about it!)
What if your 'middle' voice is wrong – where do you stand then?3) You agree that God raised Jesus:”I agree that God raised Him from the dead. But that is only half the truth.”.
Half truth: What is half the truth? half the truth from God? Since when did God lie? Man, this is getting wierder and wierder…!4) The jews thought he was equal to God – The Jews thought he was making himself EQUAL TO GOD – not Making Himself GOD!
Clearly, they were wrong – and it is this point that Trinitarian deliberately avoid – The Jews were Wrong in their assumption.
It is a point of the argument that what they thought was incorrect but because TRIni's see it as an oppotnity to say “Hey,
here are some people calling Jesus God” then it must be true. They didn't Call him GOD – but making him EQUAL to GOD. Final
word: They were wrong – and so the trini conclusion is also WRONG!5) Don't quote half verses with tiny bits because there is nothing to compare what you are saying. “Son IN Power” where is that
from. You can make anyhtng into anything when you say that. I have no idea what you are talking about. Expand it and then
we can discuss it.6) Why are you discussing king David in regard to Death of the Soul? One moment you say (In this Forum) We are discussing
Jesus as he is NOW and then when it suits you you jump back to old testament rendering because they bare fleeting benefits
for your arguments – Pick and Mix arguments.7) Quite clearly, Jesus has not ABOLISHED DEATH (But he will as the scriptures foretell), so the meaning must apply to
something else – or else it is misrendered – I do not say it but it has to be a consideration. Else, I leave that to greater minds.8) Raise himself… This is gonna run and run. There is no answer that satisfies both parties (You say Yeh – I say Neh) Let each
choose his own. Build an argument on that stance and see which holds up – I plead for a Truce!9) I don't follow all threads all the time. When we are discussing something here or there make your arguments here or there –
don't tell me you did it elsewhere already (or at least just add a reference to the page and I will read it if I feel like) If you are
against posting what you have already posted why are you posting so many circular arguments – arguments about the same
things like they only just been thought of. Worse – there isn't even anymore depth in your arguments from the original after
all this time.JustAskain said:
Quote What then happens to the wicked spirit, of angels and Man, at the end of time (to which I actual was refering to:
Death of the Spirit)?
JA,Who gives a hoot for the sake of this discussion what happens to to the wicked? This is about the spirit of Jesus and by implication the spirits of the righteous. The spirits of the righteous continued to live. Jesus inferred from God's statement, “I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob,” that God is the God of the LIVING and not of the dead. Therefore, even though those righteous patriarchs were “dead” they were LIVING in reference to God. God does not have a covenant with the dead or those who “cease to exist.”
Why do you want to circumnavigate the issue at hand with a discussion on the fate of the wicked?
JA:
Quote He will rise again”: Have you not done this to death and your only thread are these two verses – verses a thousand
(exaggerated for effect) saying God did it. Who do you believer more: God or Jesus? (Don't answer – Just think about it!)
What if your 'middle' voice is wrong – where do you stand then?
I feel I have done it to death. Your statement proves what I say about anti-trinitarians picking and choosing the scriptures they will believe. Jesus said that He would raise Himself from the dead ENOUGH times to call for your faith in what He said.You keep changing what the scriptures say. Paul said that Jesus Christ abolished death and you negated that and said that it was the Holy Spirit. Then why didn't Paul say so?
but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
Just what part of the statement “Jesus Christ abolished death” do you not understand?
JA:
Quote You agree that God raised Jesus:”I agree that God raised Him from the dead. But that is only half the truth.”.
Half truth: What is half the truth? half the truth from God? Since when did God lie? Man, this is getting wierder and wierder…!Definition of a half truth:
Quote A half-truth is a deceptive statement that includes some element of truth. The statement might be partly true, the statement may be totally true but only part of the whole truth, or it may utilize some deceptive element, such as improper punctuation, or double meaning, especially if the intent is to deceive, evade, blame or misrepresent the truth.[1] Contents [hide]
1 Purpose
2 Examples
3 Politics
4 Meme theory
5 Quotations
6 See also
7 External links
8 References[edit] Purpose
The purpose and or consequence of a half truth is to make something that is really only a belief appear to be knowledge, or a truthful statement to represent the whole truth, or possibly lead to a false conclusion. According to the justified true belief theory of knowledge, in order to know that a given proposition is true, one must not only believe in the relevant true proposition, but one must also have a good reason for doing so. A half truth deceives the recipient by presenting something believable and using those aspects of the statement that can be shown to be true as good reason to believe the statement is true in its entirety, or that the statement represents the whole truth. A person deceived by a half truth considers the proposition to be knowledge and acts accordingly.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-truth
Please note the part of the definition I highlighted in bold. A “half truth” for the sake of our discussion is a statement that is totally true but is only a part of the whole truth.
The statement that God raised Jesus from the dead is totally true. But it is only a part of the whole truth. The whole truth is that Jesus raised Himself from the dead and also the Holy Spirit. The whole truth is that Jesus was raised from the dead by the Triune God of which Jesus Himself is a member.
The whole truth is that God raised Jesus from the dead BECAUSE death could not hold Him. The whole truth is that death could not hold Him BECAUSE He was the Lord. Peter said that King David Himself saw His Lord “ALWAYS” before Him and at his right hand supporting him.
24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. 25 For David says concerning Him:
‘ I foresaw the LORD ALWAYS before my face,
For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shakenDavid saw His Lord before his face and at his right hand supporting Him EVEN while He was in hades. Death could not hold Jesus because He is the Lord! This is why David said that the Lord's going down to hades did not “shake” him. He saw the Lord before His face while his Lord was in hades.
JA:
Quote Don't quote half verses with tiny bits because there is nothing to compare what you are saying. “Son IN Power” where is that from.
The expression “Son IN power” is right from the Greek text.περὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ αὐτοῦ τοῦ γενομένου ἐκ σπέρματος Δαυεὶδ κατὰ σάρκα, 4 τοῦ ὁρισθέντος1 υἱοῦ θεοῦ ἐν δυνάμει κατὰ πνεῦμα ἁγιωσύνης2 ἐξ ἀναστάσεως νεκρῶν, Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν,
The characters I highlighted in bold and underlined is the Greek word “ev” (in). It says that He was declared to be the Son of God IN power according to the spirit of holinesss by the resurrection from the dead. So you still need to answer my question: How did the resurrection of Jesus declare that He was the Son of God “IN power” if He had exerted no power of His own?
JA:
Quote Why are you discussing king David in regard to Death of the Soul? One moment you
say (In this Forum) We are discussing
Jesus as he is NOW and then when it suits you you jump back to old testament rendering because they bare fleeting benefits
for your arguments – Pick and Mix arguments.
Please don't be coy.JA:
Quote 7) Quite clearly, Jesus has not ABOLISHED DEATH (But he will as the scriptures foretell), so the meaning must apply to
something else – or else it is misrendered – I do not say it but it has to be a consideration. Else, I leave that to greater minds.
It says that Jesus Christ “has abolished death” (past perfect tense) Past or future it is JESUS CHRIST who is credited with abolishing death.JA:
Quote 8) Raise himself… This is gonna run and run. There is no answer that satisfies both parties (You say Yeh – I say Neh) Let each
choose his own. Build an argument on that stance and see which holds up – I plead for a Truce!
Evasive!thethinker
TT,
I concede. You were right all along.
How do I convert to become a Trinitarian?
Sorry everyone, I may have been mistaken in all that I have been writing in this forum.
TT has prevailed in the truth and shown me the errors of my ways.
(By the way, this is a half truth – you will need to work out which part is the truth and which is deliberate deceipt!)
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 03 2010,05:57) gene do you know what essence means
??
Teraricca……….NO, please explain it to us. Being your the one using it.Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 03 2010,05:55) 1) Spiritual death. I said this would be at the end. You appear to be trying to make out that I mean at the point of death of the
Soul. What then happens to the wicked spirit, of angels and Man, at the end of time (to which I actual was refering to:
Death of the Spirit)?
JA………it is my understanding the SPIRIT CAN NOT DIE, it simply goes back to who GAVE IT. GOD gave some of Himself into every man when they were born this is what enlightens every man coming into the world as scripture say. This Spirit of GOD given to us can not die ever. It is simply useless to us unless we have a body that it can animate and cause to act. IF God's desire is to permanently destory us He simple leaves us in the grave and we cease to exist anymore. Remember when Jesus said do not fear Him that can destory the body and can do nothing more after that, but fear him who can destory BOTH (BODY AND SOUL) (IN) THE GRAVE. Now if we understand that a Body plus Spirit (intellect) = a SOUL or a PERSON. then you can understand if GOD does not create another body and add spirit back into it you simply cease to exist eternally. Spirit is (NOT) individuals it is a Part of GOD, that give life and can be transposed into a BODY and then that becomes a SOUL. It takes both SPIRIT and A BODY to be a person or SOUL. Spirit can not die ever. If so please show scripture that says SPIRIT CAN DIE>Terraricca……….Sorry for acting this way toward you , but some times you do rattle my cage, Essence. Is just a simple way of saying, this is the sum make up of what a person is saying meaning simply put. Trinitarians us it to say Jesus , the FATHER, Holy Spirit in essences are the same , which we know they are not. IMO
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 03 2010,10:25) TT, I concede. You were right all along.
How do I convert to become a Trinitarian?
Sorry everyone, I may have been mistaken in all that I have been writing in this forum.
TT has prevailed in the truth and shown me the errors of my ways.
(By the way, this is a half truth – you will need to work out which part is the truth and which is deliberate deceipt!)
Can't answer eh? You are aware that if you don't tell the WHOLE truth in a court of law you are guilty of perjury.Just believe EVERYTHING the Bible says and preach it and you will be fine.
“…looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ” Titus 2:13
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 03 2010,04:14) Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 02 2010,11:56) thinker You may know scripture, but you have no understanding of it.
Why would Jesus say this?Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
GeorgeThe scripture you quote is proof that the Spirit/soul exist without the Body! Your spirit and soul is you if this is not so then when you recieve a new body then it would no longer be you would it?
You are denying Jesus own words that the Spirit/Soul of man is conscious after death in the story of Lazurus and the rich man. IMO.
Blessings WJ
WJI can see, from the way Mat. 10:28 is translated, were you would think that soul means something else then body. A soul is what you are, not what you have. Paul says, there is a spirit in man, he refers to the mind. If you would understand this, then you would know that this is what is meant by “soul” in Mat. 10:28. When the body/soul dies, the spirit/mind is preserved by God until the body/soul is resurrected. At that time your spirit/mind is united with your body/soul, and you are again what you were before you died.
The parable of Lazarus and the rich man tells a completely different story then what people make it out to be.
If this was a true story; have you ever wondered how Lazarus ended up in Paradise, Abraham's bosom? Since Jesus had not died yet, how did he have his sins forgiven. Were the rich man found himself was in the lake of fire, second death, how did he end up there, and why?
The lake of fire, second death, is were both body/soul and spirit/mind, will be destroyed for ever.
When you read scripture, you have to do more then just read, you have to engage your thinking, spirit/mind; that's why Jesus said, “search” the scripture.It appears to me as though your answer has given thinker the excuse not to respond to my post.
btw, have you read all the scritures I gave in my post to thinker; I know that he wont respond to it.
Georg
gene
this is the dictionary explanation;In philosophy, essence is the attribute or set of attributes that make an object or substance what it fundamentally is, and which it has by necessity, and without which it loses its identity. Essence is contrasted with accident: a property that the object or substance has contingently, without which the substance can still retain its identity. The concept originates with Aristotle, who used the Greek expression to ti ên einai, literally 'the what it was to be', or sometimes the shorter phrase to ti esti, literally 'the what it is,' for the same idea. This phrase presented such difficulties for his Latin translators that they coined the word essentia to represent the whole expression. For Aristotle and his scholastic followers the notion of essence is closely linked to that of definition (horismos) [1]
Gene trust me i do like you ,it is some of your comments are getting my hair straight up;and you truth is way out of the scriptures;
this is my believe ;that the word spirit as be used to replace words like;dreams,mind,power,essence.
but it is wen you read the scriptures and with a good understanding you could see were the different words apply;
this is why i say” the spirit of Christ “what is it ? or what does it means ?is it a substance?is it power?
is it knowledge? is it understanding? how can it be in some one ? how could some one be in it ??so if i say “the essence of Christ” this would mean the understanding and the knowledge of HIS reason IN the plan of God executed by Christ, this is now possible;to be in you, you be in that knowledge,and that the word of god be active in you trough the knowledge you have obtain to the information received,so you produce the fruits to salvation,
because the WORD (KNOWLEDGE OFTHE) BEING ACTIVE IN YOU THIS WOULD BURN LIKE A FIRE TO MOVE US TO DO ACTIONS WHO PLEASES GOD.IF WE CHOSE SO
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