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Jesus wanted to save the unbelieving Jews:
31If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
32There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
33Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
34But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved….
45…Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.Jesus wanted to save these unbelieving Jews. He even said that He would not accuse them.
The Father did NOT want to save the unbelieving Jews:
40HE [the Father] hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I [Jesus] should heal them.
The “He” that blinded the Jews was the Father so that the “I” which was Jesus could not save them.
Jesus could save only those whom the Father had given to Him:
2As thou hast given him [the Son] power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Jesus was subserviant to the Father's will and saved only “as many” that the Father gave to Him.
The exalted Jesus can save whomsoever He wills to save:
27All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son wills to reveal him.
The Son is no longer subservient to the Father's will in the matter of salvation. The exalted Son is in full control and may save whomsoever He wills. Don't you think we should be thanking the Son that He revealed the Father to us? If the Father still had His way some of us here might not have been selected. This proves that Chrit's authority is EQUAL with the Father's. For the Son is no longer bound by the Father's will to save only those that were given to Him.
Scriptures: John 5:31-34,45; 12:40; 17:3; Matthew 11:27
thinker
Hi TT,
Servants serve.
Jesus was not God but a servant Son.
Faithful messengers offer the terms they are given to offer.Hi TT,
Jesus expressed the heart of His Father.
God wanted all to respond to the terms Jesus brought.
God was in him reconciling people to himself but His way not theirs.Quote (seekingtruth @ Sep. 27 2009,12:15) “For GOD so loved the world”
st,
The “world” never means everyone in the Bible. John 12 says that the Father blinded the minds of some people so that Jesus could not save them. “HE has blinded their minds and hardened their hearts lest they see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn, so that I should heal them” (John 12:40).Jesus was subservient to save only those whom the Father wanted to save. The exalted Jesus may save whomsoever He wills (Matthew 11:27).
Many here do not realize what the exaltation of Jesus did for humanity.
thinker
Hi TT,
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.
But your Jesus is different?
[2Cor11]Humanity has not benefited at all but only those reborn into Christ.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 27 2009,20:21) Hi TT,
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.
But your Jesus is different?
[2Cor11]Humanity has not benefited at all but only those reborn into Christ.
So His being the same means that He could not be exalted? He always wanted to save people but the Father did not allow Him to save everyone He wanted to save. Now that He is exalted he can save more people.Why did the Father blind the Jews so that Jesus could not save them? Is this not a fair question?
thinker
thinker
You turn, you twist, and you spin scripture so much, that I believe the only thing keeping you upright is you own pride and vanity.
Georg
Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 27 2009,15:12) Quote (seekingtruth @ Sep. 27 2009,12:15) “For GOD so loved the world”
st,
The “world” never means everyone in the Bible. John 12 says that the Father blinded the minds of some people so that Jesus could not save them. “HE has blinded their minds and hardened their hearts lest they see with their eyes and understand with their hearts and turn, so that I should heal them” (John 12:40).Jesus was subservient to save only those whom the Father wanted to save. The exalted Jesus may save whomsoever He wills (Matthew 11:27).
Many here do not realize what the exaltation of Jesus did for humanity.
thinker
Thinker,
The Father always does everything for the greater good.Wm
Thinker…………I have to agree with Georg on that, Man you are all over the board . Dump the false TRINITARIAN TEACHING and come back to a focal POINT. Those false teachings cause a delusion and confusion so you can't get things in line, Let them GO and START OVER NEW> IMO
love and peace to you……………..gene
Gene said:
Quote YOU can't even go to Jesus in order to be part of the Church unless the FATHER draw YOU. Gene.
Nonsense Cat! Jesus said that when He was lifted up that HE HIMSELF would draw all men to Himself,
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.”
You keep denying Him the authority He received at His exaltation.
Before His exaltation: The Father drew men to Christ (John 6:44).
After His exaltation: Jesus draws all men to Himself (John 12:32).
Get it right Cat!
thinker
Hi TT,
The vessel of Christ is filled with the fullness of God.
Christ is the place of safety for men to come to and find refreshment in God's Spirit.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 29 2009,08:35) Hi TT,
The vessel of Christ is filled with the fullness of God.
Christ is the place of safety for men to come to and find refreshment in God's Spirit.
Christ is a spirit now like He was before. Spirits are not “vessels.”thinker
Hi TT,
God has spoken through angels without them being God.
Jesus has a new heavenly body just as we hope to inherit.[1Cor15]Thinker………Can you see how your drift all over the place, making statements that make no sense at times. Stop and get you head together, Back out of that False TRINITY DOGMAS. would be a good start. IMO
gene
Quote (Gene @ Sep. 30 2009,00:34) Thinker………Can you see how your drift all over the place, making statements that make no sense at times. Stop and get you head together, Back out of that False TRINITY DOGMAS. would be a good start. IMO gene
Gene,
This is your best reply? WJ and Nick understood what I said. I read the narratives about Jesus as an unfolding story. I don't use your “hop & chop” method. I will give it again and hopefully you will honestly deal with it.Here it is again:
Gene said:
Quote YOU can't even go to Jesus in order to be part of the Church unless the FATHER draw YOU. Nonsense Cat! Jesus said that when He was lifted up that HE HIMSELF would draw all men to Himself,
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.”
You keep denying Him the authority He received at His exaltation.
Before His exaltation: The Father drew men to Christ (John 6:44).
After His exaltation: Jesus draws all men to Himself (John 12:32).
Get it right Cat!
thinker
Hi TT,
It is you who chops up scripture to make it salute your dogmas.
His resurrection was by the Spirit of God in which he lives eternally.
He died at calvary and his own spirit left him and now we share that hope.Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 27 2009,11:41) Jesus wanted to save the unbelieving Jews: 31If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
32There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
33Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
34But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved….
45…Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.Jesus wanted to save these unbelieving Jews. He even said that He would not accuse them.
The Father did NOT want to save the unbelieving Jews:
40HE [the Father] hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I [Jesus] should heal them.
The “He” that blinded the Jews was the Father so that the “I” which was Jesus could not save them.
Jesus could save only those whom the Father had given to Him:
2As thou hast given him [the Son] power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Jesus was subserviant to the Father's will and saved only “as many” that the Father gave to Him.
The exalted Jesus can save whomsoever He wills to save:
27All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son wills to reveal him.
The Son is no longer subservient to the Father's will in the matter of salvation. The exalted Son is in full control and may save whomsoever He wills. Don't you think we should be thanking the Son that He revealed the Father to us? If the Father still had His way some of us here might not have been selected. This proves that Chrit's authority is EQUAL with the Father's. For the Son is no longer bound by the Father's will to save only those that were given to Him.
Scriptures: John 5:31-34,45; 12:40; 17:3; Matthew 11:27
thinker
Hi thethinker:Jesus is the head of the church and no man can come to God except through him. All power and heaven and earth has been given unto him, but his ministry is to do the Father's will:
Quote Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. Jhn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Jhn 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Jhn 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Quote 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Love in Christ,
MartyThinker…………So there is a before and after in your theology, of Jesus' powers, So now people come to Jesus with out the drawing of the Spirit of GOD right, Just the idea that Jesus was raised does it right, We no longer need the SPIRIT of GOD to GUIDE us, we just look up in the air at the risen Christ and that is it right. Again trinitarian garbage trying to elevate Jesus it the Position of GOD the Father HIMSELF. In fact to the exclusion of the FATHER, because he is no longer need in you theology.
gene
Quote (942767 @ Sep. 30 2009,13:14) Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 27 2009,11:41) Jesus wanted to save the unbelieving Jews: 31If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
32There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.
33Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth.
34But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved….
45…Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.Jesus wanted to save these unbelieving Jews. He even said that He would not accuse them.
The Father did NOT want to save the unbelieving Jews:
40HE [the Father] hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I [Jesus] should heal them.
The “He” that blinded the Jews was the Father so that the “I” which was Jesus could not save them.
Jesus could save only those whom the Father had given to Him:
2As thou hast given him [the Son] power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Jesus was subserviant to the Father's will and saved only “as many” that the Father gave to Him.
The exalted Jesus can save whomsoever He wills to save:
27All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son wills to reveal him.
The Son is no longer subservient to the Father's will in the matter of salvation. The exalted Son is in full control and may save whomsoever He wills. Don't you think we should be thanking the Son that He revealed the Father to us? If the Father still had His way some of us here might not have been selected. This proves that Chrit's authority is EQUAL with the Father's. For the Son is no longer bound by the Father's will to save only those that were given to Him.
Scriptures: John 5:31-34,45; 12:40; 17:3; Matthew 11:27
thinker
Hi thethinker:Jesus is the head of the church and no man can come to God except through him. All power and heaven and earth has been given unto him, but his ministry is to do the Father's will:
Quote Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. Jhn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Jhn 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Jhn 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Quote 2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Love in Christ,
Marty
Amen!thinker
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