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Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 21 2009,14:28) Marty believes that animal sacrifices will come back
Thinker,Would you mind pointing me to Marty's post that said this? I find this facinating, and have wondered about it myself.
Thanks,
MandyKeith,
Is your fleshly body an “it” or is it a complete person on its own? Can your mind be intimately associated with your fleshly body? The mind isn't the flesh and the flesh isn't the mind. They are both parts of a person yet they are intimately associated with each other. If you stub your toe, your toe sends messages to your mind and your mind responds by causing you to grab your foot or something. Two parts intimately associated with each other. Flesh can hurt, feel, carry out instruction like walk, run, sit because it is connected to the mind. If the flesh was not in an intimate relationship with the mind it could not do anything.My point is that a part of a person can be intimately associated with the mind of the person. The Spirit of the Father is intimately associated with mind of the Father. The Spirit of the Father is where He feels emotions, His mind thinks the emotions and the Spirit feels them and expresses them. That is how the Spirit of the Father loves, it receives of the mind and expresses what is received. The Father does the loving THROUGH His Spirit.
Man feels physical pain in his body, man feels emotional pain in his spirit. His spirit is not his body and his body is not his spirit yet they are both intimately associated with each other and the mind of the man. His spirit is personal to himself but not to Joe Schmoe down the street. The Spirit of the Father is personal to the Father.
This is an example of two parts intimately associated with each other even so much that when they are separated the “body” is dead:
James 2:26
26 For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
NASUKathi
Quote (942767 @ Aug. 20 2009,19:11) Hi WJ: Once again, Romans 8:26 may not refer to the Holy Spirit making intercession. In the following verse, relative to speaking in tongues, the Apostle Paul states “my spirit prayeth…”
Quote 1Cr 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. And he who searches the heart, and knows the mind of the spirit, and makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God would be Jesus.
Quote Hbr 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Hbr 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Hi MartyI do not think so. Why wouldn’t Paul just say that Jesus is praying in us? There is no implication of that anywhere, and contextually Romans chapter 8 is Speaking of the Holy Spirit!
They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. “All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues “as the Spirit enabled them“. Acts 2:1, 2
Here we see that the Holy Spirit which many believe is an “It” enables the Apostles to Speak in tongues!
The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God. Then Peter said, Acts 10:45, 46
Here we see that the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out on the gentiles and they spoke in tongues!
There is no indication at all that the Holy Spirit is the Father or Jesus throughout the book of Acts!
Jesus had told them…
But “you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you“; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” Acts 1:8
That is exactly what happened in Acts 2. If Jesus would have been speaking of himself then he would have said so.
Jesus is the baptizer of the Holy Spirit, not of himself or the Father!
“I baptize you with* water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. “He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire“. Matt 3:11
He had told the disciples also that “Another Comforter” would come from the Father.
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you “ANOTHER COUNSELOR” to be with you forever– John 14:16
But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit,”WHOM THE FATHER WILL SEND IN MY NAME”, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. John 14:26
“When the Counselor comes, “WHOM I WILL SEND TO YOU FROM THE FATHER”, the Spirit of truth “WHO GOES OUT FROM THE FATHER’, he will testify about me. John 15:26
Jesus and the Father sent the Holy Spirit in Acts 2 and Jesus baptized them in the Holy Spirit and they began to speak with tongues as the Holy Spirit gave them utterance!
Paul says in the same chapter as your quote…
Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. 1 Cor 14:22
This is what happened in Acts chapter 2 just as Jesus said it would!
”For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body”–whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free–and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 1 Cor 12:13
Jesus did not baptize us with himself or the Father, but by the “One Spirit” that we have all been made to drink!
That same Spirit makes intercession in us according to the will of God..In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints in accordance with God's will. Rom 8:26, 27
Look at the context Marty, in the same chapter Paul says just before this…
”And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you”, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies “through his Spirit, who lives in you“. Rom 8:11
The first 16 verses of the chapter are talking about the Spirit of God or the Holy Spirit! So Jesus cannot be the Spirit in verse 26.
Blessings! WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2009,22:08) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 20 2009,06:51) Why did Jesus only mention only himself and God if he meant himself, God, and the Holy Spirit?
Hi CatoBut the Counselor, the Holy Spirit,”WHOM THE FATHER WILL SEND IN MY NAME”, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. John 14:26
“When the Counselor comes, “WHOM I WILL SEND TO YOU FROM THE FATHER”, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me. John 15:26
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of “the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost“: Matt 28:19
Blessings WJ
I am not Cato if that is your assumption. I was speaking of John 17 but you have a good point that all three are spoken of in other scriptures.WorshippingJesus wrote:
Quote ”And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you”, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies “through his Spirit, who lives in you”. Rom 8:11 WJ,
Good passage. It says that the Spirit raised Christ from the dead too.thinker
Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 21 2009,16:56) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 21 2009,14:28) Marty believes that animal sacrifices will come back
Thinker,Would you mind pointing me to Marty's post that said this? I find this facinating, and have wondered about it myself.
Thanks,
Mandy
Mandy,
Go to Scripture and Biblical Doctrine to the Messing with God's Timetable thread. See page 2 third and ninth posts.thinker
WorshippingJesus said to Marty:
Quote esus had told them… But “you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you”; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” Acts 1:8
That is exactly what happened in Acts 2. If Jesus would have been speaking of himself then he would have said so.
Jesus also said that He would depart from them and send “another comforter.”
thinker
Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 21 2009,03:06) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2009,22:08) Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 20 2009,06:51) Why did Jesus only mention only himself and God if he meant himself, God, and the Holy Spirit?
Hi CatoBut the Counselor, the Holy Spirit,”WHOM THE FATHER WILL SEND IN MY NAME”, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. John 14:26
“When the Counselor comes, “WHOM I WILL SEND TO YOU FROM THE FATHER”, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me. John 15:26
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of “the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost“: Matt 28:19
Blessings WJ
I am not Cato if that is your assumption. I was speaking of John 17 but you have a good point that all three are spoken of in other scriptures.
Hi KerwinSorry about calling you cato.
Anyway, thanks for your response!
WJ
Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 21 2009,04:42) WorshippingJesus wrote: Quote ”And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you”, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies “through his Spirit, who lives in you”. Rom 8:11 WJ,
Good passage. It says that the Spirit raised Christ from ther dead too.thinker
Hi Thinker,
If you read that verse closely you will see that it was the “Him” that raised Christ and that same “Him” gives life to our mortal bodies “through His Spirit.”Lightenup………Yes the Spirit (OF) Him and If it is the SPIRIT (OF) HIM, it can be described as an (IT), for instance the cow got out and (IT) ran away. It is still the same thing the Cow being described by the word (IT)> Good post
peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2009,10:44) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 21 2009,04:42) WorshippingJesus wrote: Quote ”And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you”, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies “through his Spirit, who lives in you”. Rom 8:11 WJ,
Good passage. It says that the Spirit raised Christ from ther dead too.thinker
Hi Thinker,
If you read that verse closely you will see that it was the “Him” that raised Christ and that same “Him” gives life to our mortal bodies “through His Spirit.”
Hi KathiNo it says “The Spirit of Him” raised Christ from the dead! And the Spirit gives life.
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant–not of the letter “but of the Spirit“; for the letter kills, “but the Spirit gives life. 2 Cor 3:6
As soon as you guys realize that there is “One God”, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, then it will all make sense!
WJ
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 21 2009,11:19) Lightenup………Yes the Spirit (OF) Him and If it is the SPIRIT (OF) HIM, it can be described as an (IT), for instance the cow got out and (IT) ran away. It is still the same thing the Cow being described by the word (IT)> Good post peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
Hi GeneSo now the Spirit is compared to a “cow”?
The Spirit is a person for the “Lord is that Spirit”!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 22 2009,04:11) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2009,10:44) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 21 2009,04:42) WorshippingJesus wrote: Quote ”And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you”, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies “through his Spirit, who lives in you”. Rom 8:11 WJ,
Good passage. It says that the Spirit raised Christ from ther dead too.thinker
Hi Thinker,
If you read that verse closely you will see that it was the “Him” that raised Christ and that same “Him” gives life to our mortal bodies “through His Spirit.”
Hi KathiNo it says “The Spirit of Him” raised Christ from the dead! And the Spirit gives life.
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant–not of the letter “but of the Spirit“; for the letter kills, “but the Spirit gives life. 2 Cor 3:6
As soon as you guys realize that there is “One God”, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, then it will all make sense!
WJ
One problem I see that some keep making is not understanding the use of the word spiritFor instance in your example comparing the letter of the law verses the spirit of the law it is not using the word spirit there to describe a being of any kind. For example saying “That's good team spirit” is talking about the entire disposition of the team.
Spirit is defined and used many ways:
n.
The vital principle or animating force within living beings.
Incorporeal consciousness.
The soul, considered as departing from the body of a person at death.
Spirit The Holy Spirit.
A supernatural being, as:
An angel or a demon.A being inhabiting or embodying a particular place, object, or natural phenomenon.
A fairy or sprite.
The part of a human associated with the mind, will, and feelings: Though unable to join us today, they are with us in spirit.
The essential nature of a person or group.
A person as characterized by a stated quality: He is a proud spirit.
An inclination or tendency of a specified kind: Her actions show a generous spirit.
A causative, activating, or essential principle: The couple's engagement was announced in a joyous spirit.
spirits A mood or an emotional state: The guests were in high spirits. His sour spirits put a damper on the gathering.
A particular mood or an emotional state characterized by vigor and animation: sang with spirit.
Strong loyalty or dedication: team spirit.
The predominant mood of an occasion or a period: “The spirit of 1776 is not dead” (Thomas Jefferson).
The actual though unstated sense or significance of something: the spirit of the law.
That is why there is no clear consensus here because the word itself is so flexible. So we would first have to examine the use of the word before we assume its meaning. Just seeing the word spirit doesn't mean it applies even to God such as an unclean spirit.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 21 2009,12:11) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2009,10:44) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 21 2009,04:42) WorshippingJesus wrote: Quote ”And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you”, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies “through his Spirit, who lives in you”. Rom 8:11 WJ,
Good passage. It says that the Spirit raised Christ from ther dead too.thinker
Hi Thinker,
If you read that verse closely you will see that it was the “Him” that raised Christ and that same “Him” gives life to our mortal bodies “through His Spirit.”
Hi KathiNo it says “The Spirit of Him” raised Christ from the dead! And the Spirit gives life.
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant–not of the letter “but of the Spirit“; for the letter kills, “but the Spirit gives life. 2 Cor 3:6
As soon as you guys realize that there is “One God”, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, then it will all make sense!
WJ
Keith,
Look at the verse in your interlinear. “Of Him that raised up Jesus” goes together. Sorry!
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2009,14:21) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 21 2009,12:11) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 21 2009,10:44) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 21 2009,04:42) WorshippingJesus wrote: Quote ”And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you”, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies “through his Spirit, who lives in you”. Rom 8:11 WJ,
Good passage. It says that the Spirit raised Christ from ther dead too.thinker
Hi Thinker,
If you read that verse closely you will see that it was the “Him” that raised Christ and that same “Him” gives life to our mortal bodies “through His Spirit.”
Hi KathiNo it says “The Spirit of Him” raised Christ from the dead! And the Spirit gives life.
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant–not of the letter “but of the Spirit“; for the letter kills, “but the Spirit gives life. 2 Cor 3:6
As soon as you guys realize that there is “One God”, the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, then it will all make sense!
WJ
Keith,
Look at the verse in your interlinear. “Of Him that raised up Jesus” goes together. Sorry!
Kathi
Hi KathiSorry for what? What do you think I am stupid?
Why did you leave out the word “Spirit”?
“pneuma tou egeirantov”
“Spirit OF him” raised…
And if the “Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead “is living in you, “HE who raised Christ from the dead” will also give life to your mortal bodies “through his Spirit, who lives in you.“ Rom 8:11
Make up your mind, now you are admitting that the Spirit is a “Him” the Father who is a person!
Which is it? So then the Father who is a “Him” dwells in you right?
But wait, Paul says “He” the Spirit (who you say is the Father) also gives us life “Through his Spirit” which you say in the first part of the verse is the Father who lives in us!
You are trying to have it both ways Kathi, by saying the Spirit of the Father (or a him, he) is the Father but yet the Spirit of the Father is not a person!
Either way it is the Spirit who is God that raised Jesus from the dead!
And guess what Jesus who also is God, who raised himself from the dead!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 22 2009,04:12) Quote (Gene @ Aug. 21 2009,11:19) Lightenup………Yes the Spirit (OF) Him and If it is the SPIRIT (OF) HIM, it can be described as an (IT), for instance the cow got out and (IT) ran away. It is still the same thing the Cow being described by the word (IT)> Good post peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
Hi GeneSo now the Spirit is compared to a “cow”?
The Spirit is a person for the “Lord is that Spirit”!
WJ
WJ………Can you see how you alter the point i was making , When did i ever say GOD Spirit is compared to a COW. I was speaking about the WORD (IT)> But you have shown a good example of the confused Trinitarian mind set, can't even get something as simple as what i posted right. Amazing! This is why nothing can ever get clarified here. This constant diversion from the truth is a hindrance to the TRUTH.Quote (Gene @ Aug. 21 2009,15:11) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 22 2009,04:12) Quote (Gene @ Aug. 21 2009,11:19) Lightenup………Yes the Spirit (OF) Him and If it is the SPIRIT (OF) HIM, it can be described as an (IT), for instance the cow got out and (IT) ran away. It is still the same thing the Cow being described by the word (IT)> Good post peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
Hi GeneSo now the Spirit is compared to a “cow”?
The Spirit is a person for the “Lord is that Spirit”!
WJ
WJ………Can you see how you alter the point i was making , When did i ever say GOD Spirit is compared to a COW. I was speaking about the WORD (IT)> But you have shown a good example of the confused Trinitarian mind set, can't even get something as simple as what i posted right. Amazing! This is why nothing can ever get clarified here. This constant diversion from the truth is a hindrance to the TRUTH.
Hi GeneNot at all. It is clear that you are saying that the Spirit is an “it”, and not a person, right?
Like the cow that can be refered to as an it, right?
Am I wrong for that is the comparion that you were making, is it not?
“Also, your Arian doctrine has you so blind to the truth that you cannot understand the things of the Spirit”! (what I just said is the same kind of cheap shots that you take all the time, can you see that?)
WJ
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